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I purchased my Infinti at out of state dealer - did not pay anything extra, just the price dealer and I have agreed on (in your case 31,880 or 32K). I paid ALL my registration, new license plate and sales tax fees at my local tag office.
HTH
I got temporary (plastic/paper) license plate good for 30 days and was ask to signed "Affidavit for Partial Exemption of Motor Vehicle Sold for Licensing in Another State" document and in about 45 min was on my way home! All numbers were comfirmed over phone and everything was according to my copy of Retail Buyer Order.
most people, however, opt to have the dealer do it for them for a convenience fee - but you don't have to pay for it: my dealers ate it for me.
Some members may have actual lease questions that they need answered.
Thanks
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New to the board and glad I found it before meeting at local dealer here in AZ tomorrow. Looking for any insight into what one would consider an excellent deal on the following:
Black G37 2009 Journey 4dr Sedan
Premium Package
MSRP $37,065
Invoice: $34,172
TMV (before tax/tags): $33,202
Using same percentages below invoice that's been listed in posts for the AWD model, I'm thinking $29k might not be unreasonable.....but I am definitely new to the whole process so open to any feedback. Thanks in advance!
The dealers are getting $3500 in incentives for the sedans from the factory already. I was able to negotiate $32000 + TTL for a 2009 G37x sedan (MSRP $39125, invoice $36048); plus the dealer tossed in a few extra accessories worth $700 MSRP for no charge. That ended up at $4048 below invoice, plus the free accessories.
In all the scenerios we (the people on this forum) talk about actual deals (purchase and leases) - not deals that have conditions of "liens on all a persons assets and having Bill Gates co-sign". We are giving advice to people on reality.
You nor I can get a customer any lease, for any term, for any amount...so quit getting peoples hopes up telling them they can.
I am getting a quote for a 2009 G37x with premium + navi for $450/month including tax and first month payment of $2600 including all taxes and title. Is this a good price?
Thanks.
that's the problem, isn't it?
" you can't get me the car because you don't work at a dealership, a leasing company, or bank."
I can get you the car, regardless of where I work, as long as I meet all your ask and you meet all of my ask.
"You nor I can get a customer any lease, for any term, for any amount..."
I can get a customized lease, and anyone else could as well, as long as you meet all the conditions in that lease.
"so quit getting peoples hopes up telling them they can. "
so quit telling people that they should negotiate on the monthly payments alone: only dealers would love the buyers to believe that.
oh, I forgot that you ARE a dealer.
IFS won't set up any crazy leases with "conditions" that have to be met like you paying them money at the end of the lease! So, everything you say is irrelevant. BTW - I wish I was a dealer, I only work for one - if I was one, I wouldn't be wasting my time arguing with you. Last post on this subject. :mad:
Simply compare how much money you'll spend by leasing versus buying. If you do a 10-year comparison of owning a single car versus three 39-month leases, you'll pay more than twice as much by leasing. Makes no sense to me.
Leasing costs more than buying in the long run, no question about it. However, if you are one of those people who likes the idea of a brand new car every 2-3 years and you live in states such as California where you pay sales tax on lease payment only, then leasing may make sense to you.
On the other hand, it totally makes no financial sense, IMO, if you have to pay sales tax on the full price of the vehicle or if you plan to purchase the vehicle at lease end.
If someone buys a vehicle and does a 5 year loan and then decide to trade it in 3 years, they have to hope the value of the vehicle is worth what they owe. If it is - then they have to look back and wonder if their payments would have been lower had they leased (usually they are). If their trade is worth more than what they owe, hopefully it is worth enough to cover the diffence in savings they could have had, if the trade is NOT worth what they owe - they really made a mistake.
Leasing takes the risk out of the customers hands and puts the rish into the banks. Whoever owns the vehicle has to hope it keeps its value. Ask GM about it? They lost billions in their Smart Buy and Lease programs along with Ford - so much they stopped doing them and almost went bankrupt. Luckily, Infiniti holds their value much better - so it is good for people who lease (higher residual = lower payments) and for those who buy - better trade-in or resale value.
Bottom line - each person driving habits and how often they want something new is different - so no one can say buying or leasing is right or wrong - it depends on the driver!
PS As a salesperson - I don't care if you lease one from us or buy one from us as long as you get one from us!!
It depends.
for example, you may want to try out a car with unknown quality record (european cars?). or if you want to have an option to buy the car at end of the lease at a discount - Volvo is well known for that.
etc.
Even if nothing else, leasing CAN (Not will) be more economical because of tax benefits available for leasing that are not available for out right purchases, thanks to the 1986 revision to the tax code.
at beginning of the conversation, you never said the leases have to be done via IFS.
Again, my offer to you continue to stand, as long as you agree to my conditions, i can structure a lease that will meet your monthly payment ask, your downpayment ask, and yet screw you royally in the process.
That's why smart consumers do NOT negotiate monthly payments on a lease.
But that's something any car salesman will find revolting to think about.
With owning, there's always risk of expensive repairs after the 6-year powertrain warranty expires, which you don't need to worry about if you lease 39 months at a time. Hopefully I don't have to worry about major repairs on a quality make like Infiniti for a long time.
I also agree that owning outright is a bad idea if you plan to buy new again in less than 6 years since the sales tax is spread over fewer years.
Thanks for your thoughts.
For the normal consumer that's only concerned with monthly payments, I always recommend they step down their expectations to a vehicle that is less expensive if they can't stomach the purchase payments.
The lease fees alone would steer me away. Those fees can never be recouped since the driver never owns the car. Fact is, none of the payments on a lease can be recouped since the lessee never has any equity in the car.
Even as a former business owner, I never could make the financial case for leasing a car.
Personally, I can never say how many miles I'll put on a car looking into the future. Some years it may be 10K miles. Other years, it could be double that. Get stuck with a bill for 10K miles over the lease limit @ $.25/mile, your looking at a $2,500 bill at lease end. That's on top of any disposition fees, "wear and tear" fees (if any), etc. Now, that "low lease" payment deal doesn't look so good. If you can't afford higher payments for a purchase, how in the world are you going to afford a big bill at lease end?
While I haven't financed a car in a while, I still think the general rule of thumb holds true.....20% down payment, no more than a 48 month term (using manufacturer's subsidized financing, if possible) is about as far as I'd be willing to go.
So, let's say the G37 of your dreams comes out with a price of $35K. That's $7K down. Finance $28K. Even at 0% finance, that comes out to be about $585/month. Add in taxes (which you'll pay on a lease, too), any interest, and your well into that $600/mo. range.
Leases advertised in my local paper on a new G run about $400/mo + taxes and fees (so, let's make it $450/mo) on a 3 year lease/w 10K mi/year. You also have to put some money down for CAP cost reduction. Let's be generous and say it's only $1,000. Let's also be generous and say there are only $500 in disposition and inception fees. That adds another $1,000 in "out of pocket".
On payments alone, that's a $7,200 swing in the leasee's favor. But, you've got $2K out of pocket, bringing down that delta to $5,200. However, at the end of that lease, you have nothing. And, you hope that you don't get "dinged" for mileage overages, some reconditioning costs before you turn it in, etc.
At the end of the purchase finance contract, you own a car worth....oh, I dunno....say $15K. With the lease, you start all over again with a new lease.
I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but I think you get the picture.
Bottom line, a lease with its lower payments, is a tool to get people into that Infiniti. They aren't alone in offering them. BMW has long subsidized leases to get people into their cars. All the manufacturers (up until last year) did the same thing.
Whether they make good financial sense is another matter entirely.
I know people who will lease for 4, 5, 6 years to get the payment they want. That's crazier than leasing for 36 months in my estimation. That's not so true recently, as the qualifications for a lease have gone way up (as they have to borrow money to buy a car).
Very nice analysis. I agree with every word you said. We just came off a 5-year lease in October, and another 3-year lease will be up in March. In both cases, we have/will purchase instead of another lease.
From financial point of view, the sales tax saving is about the only advantage for a lease. However, as you pointed out, the inception fee, termination fee, excessive mileage and/or wear-and-tear quickly eat up the saving.
In addition to having to keep an eye on the mileage you drive, you also lose flexibility on timing of changing vehicle. It will cost you an arm and a leg to break a lease early, and you are forced to change your car when the lease is up. After 5 years, we were not emotionally ready to part with our Volvo XC90, but we had to turn it in when time is up. That's another story.
As you say, even being careful with mileage, I still went over (again with a low mileage allotment to keep payments lower). In the end, I owed a bunch. Didn't mistreat the car. Garaged it all the time. Yeah, it had some scratches and dings (which my particular lease was very strict on), nothing out of the ordinary. In short, I was looking at a big bill. I ended up buying the car at lease end, even at its inflated residual, because it made more financial sense than writing a big check for the privilege of giving the car back.
Don't have to burn me twice. Set me sights much lower and now purchase my cars.
I have 3 Infiniti dealers in my area. Each dealer has about 6 to 9 of the 2009 Infiniti G37x models. The one I want is G37x Prem at about $39500 MSRP. The best quote I get is $35K. I countered $32K citing several people on Edmunds gets this pricing.
The response I got from the internet sales manager was, "Edmunds doesn't sell cars, and there is a shortage of these vehicles and that they would loose about $2k if they sell it for $32k and that no dealer would sell it that low"
What a bunch of BS. I guess I'm not going to get an Infiniti then.
So I have two good offers on the table, but I am not sure what to do. Both are for a 2009 g37x sedan /w premium package. One is a black/black for $31,880, and the other is a black/stone for $32,000 even. The problem is I am in PA, and these are both out of state -- The black / black is in MD, the black / stone is in NJ. I suspect buying in NJ is no problem, but I am worried about MD. For example, they say they need to title and register the car in MD, which is $250! Then I need to transfer it to PA when I get home. Purchasing in PA (or in NJ as most NJ dealerships can register in PA) would be $36. Anyone have any experience with this?
what the dealer said makes perfect sense.
this is a free market and the prices are determined by (local) supply and demand. just because someone somewhere somehow reportedly got a car at a certain price doesn't mean the dealer should sell his car to you at that price.
end of the day, he is as entitled to sell the car at the highest price as you are entitled to buy the car at the lowest price. there is only a deal if both of you can agree.
that's how capitalism works.
Or, they undervalued the trade by $xxx to make up for the low purchase price.
Some charge for mandatory "Window etching" (something worth $25, but I've seen as high as $250). Some add on pricey aftermarket wheels, or security systems.
These are just some of the ways to look at a deal.
If you're going in with cash, no trade, and only figure in tax, title, license plus a reasonable doc fee (say $100), that's the only way you can figure the real cost of the deal to compare yours to.
I'm with millwood. A dealer has the right to charge whatever they want. It's up to the consumer to decide whether to buy from them. No crimes here. No BS.
I agree with you that they're allow to charge what ever they want. Certainly no crimes there. The BS part I see is that they say it is on shortage and no dealers would sell at that price.
Anyway, I get the picture. I guess I'm just not good of a negotiator to bargain for good prices.
Currently, Infiniti has $3,500 marketing support for 2009 sedan, which I assume you are getting. At $35k, the dealer is only giving you $1,000 off MSRP ($39,500 - $35,000 - $3,500). That's insane for a 2009 model at end of January in 2010.
The invoice for that $39,500 MSRP car should be around $36,300. Subtracting the $3,500 from Infiniti, dealer cost is about $32,800. I would try to offer $33k to $33.5k. Another alternative to gauge the market is to check the quote on carsdirect.com, and ask your dealer to beat that price. My rule of thumb ( and this is for SoCal) is that you should be able to get a few hundreds off from carsdirect's price with some negotiation and patience.
Good luck!
1. Don't lease; pay cash.
2. Buy a very reliable brand (e.g. Infiniti or Honda).
3. Drive the car for 12 years.
4. Carefully keep it in top condition. You will be surprised at it's value when it comes time to sell it.
5. Avoid dark paint colors. Admittedly, they look great when new, but they age quickly so that the car looks old before it's time. Dark colors show every scratch, minor dent, and speck of dirt.
6. If feasible, avoid automatic transmissions, especially if the MT gets better fuel efficiency (doesn't apply to the G37).
If you don't have the cash for a G37, then by an Accord LX or EX. The money you save will help you pay cash for a better car next time.
I used the truecar.com and american express certificate prices (car pricing with options on american express website) to start by search and price point offers.
This is the deal I finalized after negotiating with a couple of dealers in the LA area...with the numbers I know off the top of my head ...
09 G37, black on black sedan
Nav/Prem/Illum Kick plates/ glass breakage sensors
MSRP - $39,775
Invoice - don't remember, have to check
Paid - $32, 191 + TTL (LA county tax is killer)
OTD - $35, 882.74
I financed through BofA with a 5yr @ 3.6% (have a credit score above 750). they offered the same rate and said they finance through BofA, but would not go lower.
I purchased my car at Infiniti South Bay, great no pressure experience, no added fees, they knew I wanted to be in and out....football games were on...
Hope this helps those still in the hunt. Enjoying the car...though the battery just died on me...think i left something on while playing with the tech the night before...I hope...
Thanks again.
I also agree that trying to hold a lot of margin on a leftover '09 isn't very competitive, either...considering the '10 models are hitting their showrooms in volume by now.
You and I are thinking alike....$33K-$33.5K on "afaa's" particular car is a good deal, and about right given the market conditions.
it depends on your goal. if all you care is to be economical, yes, your proposal makes a lot of sense, especially if you buy used or inexpensive cars.
but we buy cars for a variety of reasons, and many of them have little to do with economics.
BofA's 3.6% seems to be the best auto loan rate right now. Did you apply on line? Is there a fee or obligation associated to the application? (I mean, what if you get pre-approved but then decide to go through the dealer or even with another lender?)
Anyone sees a better rate elsewhere?
I just purchased a 2010 G37 Journey sedan with premium package. Using internet sales I was able to get essentially invoice price (+$50) and the full $1500 dollars of incentives. I did not finance the car through the dealer or have a trade in. The only fee besides tax and license was a $55 document fee. I had another dealer offer to go $300 under invoice but it was not my local dealership and the car I bought was just being delivered from the port so it had not been previously used for test rides and I could be sure the car was properly treated during the break-in period. I don't know if the second dealer would have played games but I was very happy with my car buying experience and it was pretty painless to negotiate a very attractive price. I know the dealer would have come down a few more dollars but a hundred dollars here or there on an expensive purchase is not a big concern.
09 G sedan: 20 sold this month @ average of $837 (so $2663 below invoice after $3500 dealer cash is applied)
10 G sedan: 15 sold this month @ average of $1804 (so $304 above invoice after $1500 dealer cash is applied)
Most times - folks who take the time to read this forum also take the time to work their deals very hard and shop around - so I assume most of you are at these numbers or better. Hope this helps.
Would be a good tool to negotiate a better rate if you can get it. The finance guy at the dealership said he would not have been able to match that rate if I had gone through him (even though they say they finance through BofA).
Hope that helps.
It was JBA Infiniti, outside Baltimore BD. I took possession yesterday, and everything went fine. Be warned, they are a tad scuzzy, they will inititally give good price quotes, then tack on destination (which is BS since it is in the MSRP already), and a $100 "processing" fee. By $31,880 price included both those items by the time I was done.