Acura TSX

uncledavid

Wouldn't take the costs of an Acura down much. Acuras require little in the way of routine maintenance except oil changes and tire rotations. And, of course, the major problems are covered under warranty for four years.

I'll bet anything the Saab costs more to maintain over the longterm because it will be less reliable and parts cost more.

xplorx4

Perhaps the fuel cost on the Saab is lower because it will spend more time in the shop than being driven... ?? <wink>

(Tongue in cheek...)

uncledavid

well played, Xplorx4.

kyfdx

uncledavid.. you might be surprised when you go in for your 30K mile service.. Most Acura dealers will hit you for between $350-600. Free maintenance on an Acura for the first 50,000 miles would be worth about $1K, I would think.

Speaking of gas mileage, what are you seeing? Its rated 23 city/32 highway. Are you getting close to that?

regards,
kyfdx

inky4

I was dismayed as my insurance for a 03 Accord V-6 went up over $150 per six months with the TSX.
I expect lack of crash test to blame.

INKY

eman5

Is the TSX's really 40' (Edmunds's data)?

uncledavid

Yeah, I fully expect that the dealer will hit me with a fee like that at 30,000 and Honda used to do that to me as well. That is becuase the dealers dramatically inflate the price of those periodic services. But, if you look at the acutal sevice that is recommended by Acura, it doens't amount to a lot more than changing oil, filters, and checking the belts and hoses. It should not cost much more than $30 to have that done at your local auto shop. I used to do that work myself on my Accord and avoided the ridiculous dealer charges. Of course, if you buy and Audi or BMW you don't even have to worry about the dealer pulling this sort of stuff.

As for MPG, it has been OK but nothing spectacular. Around town, I've lately been getting a bit more than 20. In mixed city/highway driving I get around 25 - 26. On the highway, I get in the low thirties.

uncledavid

it is big on the TSX, which is typical of FWD cars with larger tires. I think, however, that Acura has revised their numbers so that it is now less than 40'. But, it is still very large turning radius, even for the class.

squirreljam

Mileage on my 3K miles TSX has been a bit lower than expected - around 22 in town and 28 on a 600 mile road trip a few weeks ago. This is with manual trans, so it seems low to me.

I am waiting to see what it's like in cooler weather, since in St Louis summers the AC is on almost all the time.

I've also heard that this engine gets better as it approaches 10K miles so we'll see...

Squirrel

uncledavid

So, Squirrel, have you seen Moose around?

Honda engines do get better MPG after about 10,000 miles as you observe.

The EPA also rates the automatic higher in MPG (due to the less aggressive gearing).

xplorx4

I've only filled 2 tanks so far. The first, a 60/40 mix of fwy/city. My first tank was 22mpg, the second was 24mpg. Freeway speeds are appx. 70-80mph. Hopefully mpg will get better than this!

uncledavid

I've been doing a lot better than that, so it should improve. The worst I've done has been about 20 - 21, but that was mostly city driving. Right now, I'm doing about 26. But, I'm not a very aggressive driver.

inky4

I still wonder why Acura would not make 6th a little taller for highway purposes. We could cruise in 5th on hilly areas of if performance needed. Not real environmentally friendly. the accord 2.4 with 5 speed manual can get 38 mpg--due to totally different gearing.

INKY

himiler

*sound of can opening and worms wriggling*

I agree with you on your 6th gear concern. With its low, 0.27 Cd, the TSX could get 35 mpg all day long on the highway with a "freeway crawler" overdrive (and without affecting performance).

Talk about knocking that fuel cost down...

squirreljam

Part of the reason my mpg is lower has to be that I can't seem to resist that upper mid range pull, from 3500 to 5K rpm and so get into the throttle more than I need, especially around town.

The car is just sooo much fun to drive more aggressively than you need (though I'm careful to be safe around town, maybe not so much out in the twisties on a Friday afternoon bowing out of work early...).

I do feel bad going all the way to redline after reading somewhere in the boards here that piston speeds at the top end are in F1 territory - no matter how good the Honda engineers are, that CAN'T be good for long term reliability. I bounced off the rev limiter once, was surprised at how much it cut back and won't do it again.

Squirrel

himiler

squirrel --

Don't sweat the high-revving nature of DOHC Honda motors. The '98 GS-R I owned (it's still in the family) now has 234,000 miles on it and has yet to use a drop of oil.

Believe me, that car saw its 8100rpm redline frequently.

varmint

Inky - 6th gear may be the result of cruise control. With the engine revving at or around 2,000 rpms, there's not much power to push a loaded car up inclines. The car would want to downshift. With an automatic, that's possible. Not-so-much with the stick.

inky4

I will say the TSX will go up quite a hill in 6th gear. Kind of like my 1.8 Jetta Turbo a few years ago. Penalty is fuel.

I plan on using Mobil One 0w20 which they recommend to replace 5w20 or 5w30. That may help about .5 mpg.

INKY

robertsmx

Cruise control in the top gear has nothing to do with the shortness of the sixth gear. Accord I-4 manual is geared taller. The same could be said about the current Integra Type-R when compared to lesser Integras (RSX base and Type-S). In fact, Accord 6-sp also follows the same rule. It has to do with the purpose of the 6-sp (meant for performance minded people) and/or something interesting that follows.

Once I was reading about a CVT, and the extra spread of gear ratios that it provides. The point was that a CVT can typically provide a ratio of over 6:1 between the first and the final gear ratio while a conventional transmission will have a spread of about 5:1.

That had me thinking. Could the final drive be dependent on the overall drive ratio in the first gear? If it does, don’t ask me, why? But if that is the case, I can see why TSX/6-sp would be geared short in the sixth as it is, the first gear overall drive ratio is 15.35:1! (By comparison, Accord V6/6-sp has overall drive ratio of 12.90:1).

TSX automatic is designed for people who could care less about how the car responds/performs in the top gear, for relaxed cruising as it revs lower (around 2000 rpm) at 60 mph. 6-speed has a different purpose in the TSX, and even Accord V6 (likely, in the new TL as well).

katope2

Seems like I'm getting 20-21 mpg. (Im here in S.Fla and run the AC cold).
When I go to fill up, most I can ever add is 14.3 gallons (that's with the needle on E). Gas warning light seems to come on with "plenty" of gas left, but don't want to get stranded. Any thoughts.

And I was quite disappointed by turning radius (40 seems about right. I don't miss my Camry at all, but my daughter's 03 Accord does turn much tighter)

robertsmx

I did some more research, and noticed the following

Accord I4/5-speed manual
First Gear Overall Drive: 14.34:1
Last Gear Overall Drive: 2.89:1
Ratio of the two: 4.96

Accord V6/6-speed manual
First Gear Overall Drive: 12.92:1
Last Gear Overall Drive: 2.53:1
Ratio of the two: 5.10

325i / 5-speed manual
First Gear Overall Drive: 13.33:1
Last Gear Overall Drive: 3.15:1
Ratio of the two: 4.2

TSX/6-speed manual
First Gear Overall Drive: 15.54:1
Last Gear Overall Drive: 3.13:1
Ratio of the two: 4.96

330i/6-speed manual
First Gear Overall Drive: 12.75:1
Last Gear Overall Drive: 2.49:1
Ratio of the two: 5.12

Notice that the spread is indeed very close to 5.00 for all (but BMW 325i) above. As a matter of fact, BMW 325 is geared shorter and maintains higher revs in the top gear during cruising than TSX.

varmint

Robert - I agree that the car's performance character has something to do with it. Acceleration even in top gear should be strong enough. That said... the Accord 6speed is mated to a V6. The Accord 5speed is a lighter vehicle.

himiler

The BMW may turn at higher revs in 5th versus the TSX's 6th, but they're rated for nearly identical mileage:

325i--20/29
TSX--21/29

Maybe the twin balance shafts in the TSX mill have something to do with it?

robertsmx

varmint,
Yes. Having 25% additional displacement allows the Accord V6 to have 20-25% taller gearing (manual to manual). The result should translate to similar performance (both may have similar power at the wheels for same speed).

himiler,
It could be. And it could be that 325 is getting 28.6 mpg, and TSX is getting 29.4 mpg under the EPA test conditions, and rounded off to 29 mpg as an estimate.

And when you go down to auto and auto comparison, BMW 325i is rated at 19/27 mpg compared to 23/32 mpg for TSX.

uncledavid

The TSX is a heavy car with fat tires. Those features are going to keep it from getting very good MPG.

robertsmx

Is pretty good for a 200 HP, 3300 lb. sedan. My "lighter", 150 HP Accord EX with skinnier tires is rated at 23/30 mpg.

uncledavid

The TSX is a heavy car with fat tires. Those features are going to keep it from getting very good MPG.

inky4

Not that heavy and Cd is .27. Simply put the MPG is lessoned due to HP on demand. Fun car-- will add 0w20 at next change. Mobil One that is. Good stuff for any 5w30 or 5w20 recommended car.
inky

uncledavid

The TSX weight something like 3300 pounds. That is at least 200 pounds heavier than the US Accord. I'd say that is pretty heavy. The weight probably helps with the ride and it makes it feel solid on the road, but it doens't do much for the MPG.

I agree with you, however, that the aggressive gearing on the TSX makes it less efficient, but also more fun to drive.

Yeah, it does have a great CD, which helps the acceleration and the lack of wind noise at high speeds.

I'm probably going to start using Mobil One in my TSX as well.

wmquan

The TSX weight something like 3300 pounds. That is at least 200 pounds heavier than the US Accord. I'd say that is pretty heavy.

It's actually not that bad.

Weight of U.S. Accord EX, manual/automatic:

3144 / 3210

Weight of TSX (without navi), manual/automatic:

3230 / 3318

Thus the weight difference is only 86 lbs for the manual, and 108 lbs for the automatic. Sure, the Accord is a bulkier vehicle, but it's not close to a 200 lb weight differential.

Sure, an Accord DX is closer to 200 lbs in weight differential, but the EX seems closer to compare.

uncledavid

I agree that the Accord EX, with a similar level of equipment, is a better comparison.

inky

I could have had a 03 TL type S with 5500 miles for $26,500 from a guy in my town. Nice black and perfect. However, after driving the TSX I knew the 6 speed was a drivers car. I had been waiting for someone to give me a Acura sedan with a manual tranny. I drove the TSX auto and found it very dissapointing, If looking for auto the type S new is even going for $29k. I found the TSX auto way underpowered. The dealer told me the auto was faster and I said whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!
Anyhow the 6 speed is just plain fun to drive. Finally a car for me. I got black and Zainoed it last night. I was amazed at what 1 oz of that will do over the entire car. Two coats Z-2 and WOW. I am now a Zaino believer. Jesus is still first-had to get that in for my own good. Anyhow, enjoy those TSX and keep up the posting.
ON MPG I have a 1/4 plus left and have gone 350 miles. This sounds good but have to drive another 50 miles and fill up. Premium is $1.73 in Tulsa area for 93 Octane.
INKY

xplorx4

I just returned from a 1600-mile trip from the SF Bay Area to the Phoenix area, and the TSX performed wonderfully.

Over the 750-mile (one-way) drive, I got nearly 29mpg, driving approximately 80-85 on the average.

Even though the seats are comfortable, you can still get a sore butt sitting for 5-hour stretches.

Other things I noticed:
* the black leather gets HOT when it's 109F outside!
* sunglasses stored in the overhead compartment can become very hot, so you may need to cool them in front of the AC vents before wearing them.
* the dual-zone climate control seemed to be somewhat flaky, especially if the passenger temp is far below the driver temp. In this case, it seemed the passenger temp was given priority unless the driver's temp was set to "Hi".
Anyone else notice this?

inky4

Good report. funny thing a TL type S will avg 32-34 on the same trip. 29 sounds correct for the gearing. I managed 30.70 mpg over 401 miles on my first tank of commuting. I drove very carefully to get that mileage.

All check air pressure on Port delivered cars. Mine had almost 50 psi! Back down to 34 psi. I thought this car is gonna jar a filling out. Now all is well.

INKY

uncledavid

I haven't had any problems with the dual zone AC, but I did have the issue with my sunglasses getting real hot in the overhead compartment.

I have the quartz interior and the leather does not heat up too much, but the black dash can get real hot.

squirreljam

Xplorx4, I have noticed the same thing - my thought was that there is only one fan and thus only one speed setting at a time possible. Because of that, it seems that if the temps are set only slightly different, you don't really notice a difference. It seems they tried to adjust this with the new TL, as there is apparently a "sun sensor" to determine if the cabin is heating asymmetrically. Also, this could change as we get into the "cold" season and start using the heat instead of AC.

Overall, my take so far on the TSX's dual zone is that it's not fully mature. It seems to me like it was put in as a sales feature, not to be truly useful. A couple times I've wanted just the old blue/red temp dial with fan speed switch...

Squirrel

uncledavid

I don't find it that useful either. I though the old blue/red switch an fan speed worked fine too.

My only real unhappiness with the HVAC system is that when you put it into "recirculate" (which I sometimes want to do to avoid pollen and grass that makes it through despite the filter) it takes it out of auto mode, and then I have to go through the screens to get to fan speed. Otherwise, I very rarely need to change the settings and the system does a decent job of regulating itself.

xplorx4

While we're discussing the climate control, one thing I don't like is the lack of tactile feedback to know what the climate control settings are. It's somewhat annoying to have to actually LOOK at the dash to find out what it's set to. I guess that's one advantage of an analog control system- you can just reach over and twist the knob and know what it's set to... without your eyes ever leaving the road!

Also, if the system is OFF and not on recirculate, outside air is still routed inside the car. While that's not a problem, what would be nice to see is the temperature setting while the system is off. On a manual system, turning the temperature dial to max cold ensures that air completely bypasses the heater core, while middle settings might mix heated air with outside air. What happens in the TSX?

uncledavid

I wonder if that depends on the temp you have set for the thermostat.

Did you own an Accord in the past, Xplorx4? Sounds like you know you way around Hondas. My past two cars were Accords.

xplorx4

My wife and I own a 97 Pathfinder, a 93 Accord, and the TSX. The Accord and Pathfinder have similar climate control systems, with the primary exception being that the Accord has pushbuttons for each vent mode, while the Pathfinder uses a dial. In both vehicles, the coldest-possible non-air-conditioned fresh air always enters if the "recirc" button is off and the temp dial is all the way to the left.

Most Japanese cars I've driven seem to function this way. However, Hondas are the only cars that I've driven which vent air through the side registers even if "feet only" or "defrost/feet" modes are selected. (It's also the only car I've owned whose temperature dial needs to be regularly replaced every 18 months!)

Anyway, the TSX is the first digitally controlled auto climate system I've used, and it would be nice to know the logic used to regulate interior temperature. In other words, if it's 65 degrees outside and you set the temp to "65" will it turn on the A/C and mix A/C-cooled air with heater-core air or will it just turn off the A/C and draw all fresh air from the outside?

There must be complex logic involved, because "70" means something entirely different depending on the current interior air temp and whether the outside temp is colder or hotter.

uncledavid

I had the same problem in my old Accord. Used to drive me bonkers. The temp dial would break once every year or so. It got to the point that I started carrying a few spares in the glove box.

As for the TSX, I'm not sure what the logic is. I just keep it set at 70 degress and never think about it. But, I live in Los Angeles and it is pretty mild here.

xplorx4

It got to the point that I started carrying a few spares in the glove box.
 
Hahah! LOL! Me too. I've got 2 spares stuffed into the ashtray! They're cheap- only about 5 bucks each, but it's such a hassle when it breaks, because you're without temperature control until you have time to visit the dealer to pick up a new part. Grrr. Bad design.

Well, at least the TSX doesn't have that problem!

fedlawman

I got this video link from a TSX enthusiast website.

If you have broadband, check it out...it's well worth it (Sorry modem users, this file is huge...it took me 10+ minutes to download even with broadband).

http://www.sixspeed.net/RX-8/rx8-2.mpg

This is basically a test of the RX-8 with some great road course lap footage for the first half of the video. The second half is a race between the RX-8, 350Z, Accord, and Altezza (the Accord and Altezza are both 2.0L I-4 Euro models).

Terrific race footage...and a great demonstration of the TSX's potential - FWD, 4-doors and all!

fedlawman

So maybe it's more like 1/2 hour to download...

talon95

... that the video is in Japanese.

Fun to watch anyway... it's kinda like a cross between an episode of MotorWeek and a Godzilla movie.

xplorx4

After seeing that video, I now see how console games like "Gran Turismo" might have been developed.

fedlawman

Only in the game, the bikini is skimpier...

theflow

How can the Accord compete with the RX-8 and the Z? I4 vs V6 vs Rotary? No competition and no demonstration of any potential. The Accord took the lead because it was placed in front due to low hp and also due to the RX-8 and Z were fooling with each other in the first half of the race. When they became serious in the second half, they just blew off the accord. The Altezza gave up the race.

According to the intro, the bikini is a transexual......

fedlawman

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=147731

You need to register to watch the video.

Watch two videos of testers putting a TSX 6-speed through its paces in the hills of TN (US 129).

There is also a companion video with the Accord V-6 6-speed Coupe on the same road (tester drove them back-to-back). Good comparison of the two cars.

Enjoy!

hank64

I am very interested in buying a TSX. All the dealers that I have checked near Los Angeles want at least sticker price. Is it Likely that I might get a better deal if I bought in a nearby state? Also - would I avoid the tripling of the California license fee (starting October) by doing so? Any pricing advice would be welcome.