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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I watched the show even when it became Mayberry RFD. Ken Berry is appealing, but no Andy Griffith!

    Frances Bavier actually drove her own Algonquin Green '66 Studebaker Daytona Sports Sedan (2-door) on Mayberry RFD. I remember seeing it once...I wish I could find that show on TV Land, but no such luck.

    That car was sold after her death for $20K (it was about a $2K car) to a couple guys who would display it as "Aunt Bee's Studebaker" in county fairs, etc.

    "Aunt Bee" actually joined the Studebaker Drivers' Club in 1972--she is listed in Siler City, NC (where Bavier retired) in that year's S.D.C. club roster!

    Supposedly she told a N.C. Stude driver she had met at the time, that she had always had Studebakers and wept at the news of their closing. A guy on the S.D.C. forum says he worked at Frost and French Studebaker in L.A. and she'd bring in her '62 Lark for service.

    So I guess that wasn't her black '55 Ford Sunliner in the Griffith show episodes she used to be seen driving!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I have two finds that I saw recently:

    http://bringatrailer.com/2010/12/01/brumos-museum-piece-pristine-1978-porsche-92- 4/

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260695581712&viewi- tem=

    Fintail, I included the second ad because I thought it'd be a great idea to show you an immaculate diesel fintail, which is hardly seen these days. As the last year of that series, it still looks pretty modern doesn't it?

    Also, what is the model number designation of the G-Class suv series? I used to know it but I can't rememnber it for the life of me. I'm surprised they're still marketing them here in the U.S. (albeit at very high prices)
  • martianmartian Member Posts: 220
    Shifty-check this out:http://www.carstyling.ru/en/car/1961_ford_gyron/
    Man, I'd love to have one of these cars. Did Ford ever road test a prototype?
    This car had it all-uber-cool styling, gullwing doors, and no deed for a differential hear-though I imagine the handling would be a tad iffy!
    I really miss the 1960's period-American car companies were so willing to experiemnt and float new ideas-whereas today, cars (American, Euro, Japanese) all look like melted ice cubes.
    Shifty-and additional info on the Gyron would be sincerely appreciated!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...a silver Porsche 944 going down an alleyway off Tabor Avenue near Ripley in NE Philly this morning.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Wow, that's a shiny fintail. I wouldn't be surprised if it went back home. Fintails didn't age too poorly, save for the fins, which were becoming passe by the first model year of US sales (1961).

    The G we have received is the W463. Early model numbers are lower in W46x.

    That 924 has to be the best in existence. I've read they are pretty crappy, but that's not a lot of money for the best of something of that brand, certainly cheaper than restoring one.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd have the seller knock a significant amount off that Buick: wrong wheels, wrong tires, and aftermarket radio! Uh-uh!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I could live with the wrong wheels and tires, and the aftermarket radio on that Buick. But yeah, I'd still expect the price to be reduced accordingly. If I ever got one of these boats, the color combo I want is that light non-metallic baby blue that seemed to be a 1975-only color (or at least was just extra common that year), with a white interior. And make it a 455, the Buick Magnum wheels, and nicely equipped with power windows, locks, and seat, please. That's not asking for too much, is it? :shades:
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Didn't you have a G550 at one time? Or was it an E55?
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,950
    edited December 2010
    If you are running with an aftermarket radio, at least upgrade to something modern. That radio is ancient and cheapens the whole thing, IMO. I don't think those wheels work on that car, however, at lease they aren't 20" (with decals on the fenders stating such).

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    That radio actually makes me think of the old JVC I had in my 1980 Malibu...and that was probably 1988 that I put it in. Doesn't seem all that long ago, but yeah, 22 years ago, that's ancient in automotive terms.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Concept cars were generally never meant to be roadable or even driveabe, with a few exceptions. Most didn't even have a drivetrain and the ones that did, most of those didn't actually run. They were often scrapped because the automaker didn't want any liabilities associated with someone trying to make them "work" and killing themselves in the process.

    I agree about 50s and 60s styling---while some of it was great, some grotesque, some silly, it always had "vitality", and even humor. Today's cars can be quite nice but they are generally humorless. We seem to have swung from one extreme to the other----from styling that actually impeded function (overhang, weight, lack of competence in handling and braking, etc) to the other extreme of a somewhat sterile, gadgety engineer's wet dream.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,950
    They make all kinds of "retro" looking radios that have modern electronics but old school looks.

    If I had a classic I was concerned with keeping stock-looking I would install a radio in the glove box and put speakers in stock locations. With remote controls and repeater devices you would probably never even have to open the glove box to use it. (except to change CDs or plug in your Ipod)

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The car's not worth that much and is a second-tier collectible at that, and never to be a "classic". I don't think minor infractions of originality hurt a car like this at all---anything "reversible" has a neutral effect IMO. For $15K, it would have to be a slam-dunk show car with not even bug footprints on it. If it has the usual little chips and scrapes and road dirt of a 5-7 year old used car, it's really worth maybe $10K.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I have an E55 now and have had it for several years. I am thinking I will keep it as long as I can - the no car payment lifestyle is appealing.

    I don't think I would want a G Wagen - too big and heavy for me. Although I wouldn't mind having an old Euro-spec one , diesel 2-door with a removeable top.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The seller is a consistently overpriced special interest dealer - he has to be negotiable as all of his material is steep.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    That 924 has to be the best in existence...but that's not a lot of money for the best of something of that brand...

    I know that's an unfair edit of your post, but you were talking about a 70s 924 so I think we're even on the "unfair" scale! Haha!

    If you want to buy a Porsche for keeps then the "cheapest" one over the long run will probably always be a 911. Miled up but well-kept and maintained it will endure.

    But if you just want to get in and buy a "cheap" Porsche then see the 70s 924 and the 80s 924/944. :lemon: Those will also be the most ratted out and neglected Porsches on CL too. What's the best 197x Porsche 924 in the world worth? That's like "what's the best Billy Beer collection worth?" :sick: I'll pass on both.

    The late 80s 924S was built with the running gear of a 944 at a cheaper price to buy - but not cheaper to repair!
    So find a decent one like maybe this one and enjoy until it begins to collect needs. And it will need things. Sell the bones and get out before you join a driving club and wind up buried under your hobby car just like the new friends you've made!
    Oh well. It's only $2K. To get started that is.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Would the collector guides add much, if any value for the big 455 engine in that '75 Buick, versus the 350?

    I remember reading somewhere that those Buicks (or maybe it was the Olds Delta 88) actually got about 1 mpg better in testing with the 455 versus the 350. I thought I even saw it in some company memo or advertisement! Doesn't seem like that would be possible though. Now I know in some instances, particularly Mopars in the late 70's and early 80's, you were usually better off getting a 318 than a slant six, but then I think part of the problem there was that the slant six did not take well at all to emission controls, and the cars it were going in were so heavy that it really had to struggle. For instance, a ~3400 lb Mirada might be somewhat tolerable with a 120-130 hp 318 that was still putting out around 245-250 ft-lb of torque, but an 85-90 slant six would work its butt off with the maybe 160-165 ft-lb it was putting out. Plus, to move all that weight, they had to force the slant six to do something it didn't like to do...rev. I think they tended to put 2.94:1 axles in the slant six cars by that time, while the 318's were getting loafy 2.26:1's (but with slightly different first and second gear ratios to compensate).

    I'd think a 350 would still be enough engine to move a '75 LeSabre or Delta without too much trouble though. I mean, it wouldn't be a rocket, even if Olds was calling their engine that! But it wouldn't struggle, I wouldn't think.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2010
    If I'm getting an old yet modern Porsche, I'm going in up to my eyebrows and getting a 928 - either a GTS or an early car in blue with the op-art interior. It'll break me, but I loved those cars when I was a kid...not so much the 944.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    I agree about 50s and 60s styling---while some of it was great, some grotesque, some silly, it always had "vitality", and even humor.

    Mid to late 50's had the most grotesque designs. Look at huge tail fins, some straight up, some sideways, two-tone paint jobs, wrap around front windsheilds, garish senseless chrome splashed on sides, gobbed up in grilles.

    Designers came to their senses in the early 60's, especially at GM. Look at garish 58 full size Olds and Buicks, 59 Cads, late 50's Pontiacs also 57-58 Chrysler, Desoto and compare to clean lines of say 62 Pontiac Grand Prix (based on Catalina) or 63 Grand Prix in dark blue or 64 GTO. Also clean clasic lines were the 63-65 Buick Rivieras. And Ford had some nice designs as others have pointed out with 65 Ford Galaxy Hardtop. Of course, Ford had great design with 67-68 Mustang GT fastback, and brought that design back in 2005-2011. These Mustangs have signature timeless design.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    How do costs of parts and service for any Porsche compare to say collector Fords, Chevies, Pontiacs from the 60's.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,586
    Porsche parts are insanely expensive... If you needed an engine rebuild of the flat-six on an air-cooled 911, you'd be out $5K or more, just for the parts... Fortunately, the cars are fairly reliable, though maintenance intensive...

    Front engine Porsches (944, 924, 928) tend to be even more expensive to keep running...

    An air-cooled 911 can be relatively expensive to acquire, but is probably the cheapest way to go, considering maintenance, depreciation, reliabilty and driving enjoyment... The 944 Turbo is a great handling car that would cost a fortune to keep in running order... You can buy 924s cheap, and also spend a fortune..

    Of course, I have no idea how much it costs to keep an old Ford or Chevy going..... :surprise:

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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,283

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    That red 65 Chrysler convertible has graceful styling. I like it too.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    Andre better be sitting when he looks at the inventory. Prices, not so sure. Probably a few bargains there.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I'm sure it's still overpriced, but I'm liking that '85 LeSabre. That's exactly the color of my grandparents' the gray metallic with a gray velour interior. I hope that car goes to someone who would appreciate it. With only 17K miles, that thing's like a brand-new car! FWIW, that was the last brand-new car my grandparents bought. Well, okay, there was the Silverado that they bought in June of '85, which I still have, but that's a truck...so, a technicality.

    That '65 Chrysler is pretty sweet, too. I think 1965 was a magical year in general...I don't think there's ever been a time since then that there was so much, so new, all in one year. And just about everything looked good that year, although I'm not so crazy about the '65 Mercury, and I gotta admit the '65 Dart/Valiant were kinda goofy. I wonder if we'll ever see another year like that again?

    It's interesting, comparing that '55 DeSoto to the '55 Imperial. They both used the same roof, windows, doors, etc, but you can really see how they stretched out the wheelbase, moving the rear axle out beyond the C-pillar, to make it look much more important. The '55 Imperial was only a 4" stretch though...130" versus 126" for Chrysler/DeSoto, but it really shows up in those pics. The '56 Imperial was stretched even more, to a 133" wb.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2010
    The collector guides, not one of them, add anything for a 455 in a 1975 Buick.

    Porsche 924 -- "VW performance at Porsche prices"

    Rebuilds for a 911 are now at $12,000. Fortunately, unless you buy a rat, you won't need one.

    Repair and maintenance on a Porsche versus an American car depend on a) what Porsche, and b) what part. If it's a 928, it's usually 3 to 4 X the cost of repairs on an American car. (clutch $2200; radiator $1200, water pump $1600, engine rebuild $12K--$15K)

    If it's a 911, it's usually no more than double. Kinda depends on what breaks and how hard it is to dig it out of there.

    If it's a 924, I wouldn't even bother fixing it, personally.

    A 944 can be expensive to maintain, about the same as a 911, but it is far more maintenance-intensive than a 911.

    A 914 has a VW motor, so that's good in terms of repairs, and lots of VW sourced parts, but there's also a fair amount of Porsche stuff in there, like the transmission. A solid, clean 914 wouldn't be too bad to keep running.

    The 911 is really the Porsche to own if you want the least risk and the most fun in combination.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Edsel hardtop with a 6 and a stick, that does have to be uncommon. Some cool stuff from that dealer, prices are steep on a lot of it...but negotiable I'm sure.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Uncommon, but for a bad reason. Nobody wanted one then, or now. :(
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I still think this has elegant and clean lines.

    image

    And I have always liked this in white (all except the fender skirts).

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well yes, if you don't mind the elegant and clean lines going in 5 different directions. I'm not a big fan of massive overhang, because it's so....so....useless.

    Still, i'd drive that thing around. It is what we might call euphemistically "period attractive".

    The Olds? I don't think so, personally. Think of what Photoshop could do just to the rear end portion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The guy seems to have a bit of a Mopar bent. I liked the 55 DeSoto better than the comparison Chrysler. Also liked the 65 Chrysler convertible, and I always thought that 75 era Chrysler wagon he has were kind of handsome for their time.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    "Mid to late 50's had the most grotesque designs"

    Design is always a personal thing. I didn't think all the mid to late 50's cars were garish (although some were). I think 57 was a pretty good year for Ford and Chrysler looks wise.

    As for the 60's, cars did get cleaner and simpler in design, and Bill Mitchell at GM was always one of my favorite designers. The only possible drawback to that period is that some of the cars got a little bit "look alike" again. One thing you can say for mid to late 50's is that each car was pretty easily identified!

    If I had to pick my favorite 60's car, I might actually go for the original 66 Olds Toronado. Very unique and interesting vehicle for its time. Although its hard not to pick a 63 Sting Ray.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    "I watched the show even when it became Mayberry RFD"

    Mayberry was a nice show, but too much Ford focus. If you want to watch a TV show with lots of old cars, go to Hulu and watch Broderick Crawford and Highway Patrol. The cop cars (done in a California Hwy Patrol motiff) tended to be Buick, Dodge or Mercury coupes, but most of the filming was done around southern California so you really see an assortment of vehicles.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited December 2010
    66 Toronado is awesome. Fantastic design!

    When I say "garish" I'm really thinking 1958-59 and the mid 50s Hudsons, Ramblers, etc. They seem to violate every principle of design.

    The "art" of design is not entirely subjective. There are some basic rules you are supposed to learn in design school, or else there wouldn't be design schools. Some things just "work" time and time again, regardless of period and even culture.

    Nobody builds doorways that are triangular for instance. (except the Krell). Arches and rectangles, since the dawn of time. Things like that.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited December 2010
    I think those big Chryslers were close to perfect in 1965, and still nice in '66. Conservative, but clean, sleek, and uncluttered. I owned a 1967 Newport for about 4-5 months, and I really didn't care for it, though. By that time, the front-end looked kinda like it was trying to ape a Lincoln, and the Barracuda-ish roofline just didn't look right on that big mastodon.

    I like the '60 Olds, too. Minus the skirts, of course.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    The "art" of design is not entirely subjective. There are some basic rules you are supposed to learn in design school, or else there wouldn't be design schools. Some things just "work" time and time again, regardless of period and even culture.

    One design feature I always notice is where the base of the C-pillar falls, in relation to the rear axle. If the c-pillar is too far back, it makes the car look goofy, but if it's too far forward, it just makes the car look too exaggerated, like it's trying too hard to be big.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I agree on the '65 and '66 Chryslers...they were an Elwood Engel design; the guy who did the '61 Continental. What an improvement over the goofy (to me) and now extremely-dated-looking '63 and '64 Chryslers. I liked the New Yorkers, too, with the red taillight bulbs and clear lenses.

    '65 was a year of a lot of automotive styling changes. In my mind I always put a big break between '64 and '65 for car styling...like the '64 was still an extension of the late '50's, and the '65 styling was the start of the cleaner look that went into the '70's. I tend to do the same with pop music--early '60's pop was still a lot like '50's pop, until the Beatles changed everything.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Expressing the cost of parts for expensive cars, such as Porsches, in terms of multiples, or percentages over what the equivalent mass market car part costs, is very useful. This information would be very useful to consumers at the time of purchase. Too bad it's not readily available, as it might deter some buyers from getting in over their comfort level, if not over their heads.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,283
    edited December 2010
    '65 was the year when the Big 3 all had brand-new fullsize cars introduced simultaneously. My opinion was the GM styling won that battle, with Chrysler coming in second -- while the Chrysler models were sweet, the Dodges were just OK on the outside (but with a great dashboard) and the Plymouths were not very attractive either inside or out. I never cared for the looks of the '65 Ford very much -- I always thought that if I was a big-car Ford buyer in the fall of '64 I would search out a leftover '64 Galaxie. The '64 Ford is a much better-looking car to my eyes.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2010
    1955 and 1965 seem to be revolutionary years, which would influence styling for the next decade to come.

    The real decade doesn't seem to start until a few years into the calendar decade, for music, car design, style or fashion in general.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Never cared for the 1963-64 Chryslers much. They look like a mix between Exner and Engel and it doesn't do much for me. Earlier and later Chryslers look much better. Your pop music analogy pretty much explains it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I heard the 1965 Ford Galaxie described as the box the 1963 Pontiac came in! :P
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...light blue 1972 Ford LTD four-door hardtop with a black vinyl roof on Ripley Street near Bingham in NE Philly.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Very true. Sports Car Market magazine does this to some extant, in their "affordable classics" section. Hemmings Classic Cars also attempts to do this.

    STYLING: 1955 was a watershed year in American automotive styling history, no doubt about it. Really, the '55 Chevy, it could be argued, was the first modern car after WW II *in totality*----previous cars had *parts* of modernity, but the '55 Chev sort of put it all together in one package---it was fast, had a modern engine, was relatively lightweight, good looking, functional, clean, very affordable, full of colors, cheap to run, cheap to fix, offered lots of options, and appealed to families and hot-rodders alike, and crossed all income ranges. I mean, what's not to like here?
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,283
    Last night -- a foggy, rainy but mild winter evening here -- I spotted a nice-looking '64 BelAir 2-door post sedan parked at the curb downtown. From a quick look, it appeared at least partially if not totally restored. An odd choice to drive on a night where the roads and driving conditions would not be kind to an older car.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Lots of Chevy 2D post sedans are hot-rodded. Very popular for that, especially early 60s, and especially Biscaynes. People stuff 409s in them or similar big blocks and turn 'em into vintage street racers, or even "gassers".
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    In weak defense of the 944, junkyard parts are often a lot cheaper. A decent 911 junkyard engine will probably run you $5-$6K, a decent 944 engine probably less than $1K.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, I'm kind of a fan of later 944s---they are far superior to 924s, and can be made to handle BETTER than a 911. My only complaint against them is that they need a lot of maintenance.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    "Lots of Chevy 2D post sedans are hot-rodded. Very popular for that, especially early 60s, and especially Biscaynes. People stuff 409s in them or similar big blocks and turn 'em into vintage street racers, or even "gassers"."

    I remember as a kid that some of the teenagers and young adults (at least in the Chicago area) would drop those big Chevy engines in their cars and then remove the 409 (or other V8) emblem and replace it with a 6 emblem to fake out the competition when looking to drag race. Like you couldn't tell from the sound it wasn't a six, but heck it was just all a part of growing up in that era.
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