I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

The Nomad happens to be beautiful. It doesn't look like a postal service vehicle. :P

These cars aren't as rare as one might think. I found a couple in 60 seconds:

Here's a customized 2-door Chevelle wagon for half the money, twice the options, more HP and you'll get 5X the attention.

http://cars-on-line.com/48663.html

Here's a more sedate 2D Chevelle custom, with vintage air, more options, and more HP, for $12,000 less

http://cars-on-line.com/47583.html

My feeling is that if you pay double the market price for something and you need a two page flyer to explain to people why it's special or valuable, you have a problem.

omarman

BTW, the original Nomad was a sales bomb also...but they seem to bring decent money.

Hahaha! Let's see...original Nomad based on the iconic 1955-1957 Chevy versus a 1964 Chevelle wagon with 2 doors. Good one!

I'll take a printed T-shirt: "1964 was the Year Of The Goat and all I got was a Shivvy bowtie wagon"

Mr_Shiftright

The Nomad happens to be beautiful. It doesn't look like a postal service vehicle. :P

These cars aren't as hard to find as one might think. I found three in 2 minutes:

Here's a customized 2-door Chevelle wagon for half the money, twice the options, more HP and you'll get 5X the attention.

http://cars-on-line.com/48663.html

Here's a more sedate 2D Chevelle custom, with vintage air, more options, and more HP, for $12,000 less

http://cars-on-line.com/47583.html

Here's another mild custom, 383 stroker motor

http://www.festivals-and-shows.com/1964-chevy-chevelle-wagon-21000-santa-maria-c- alifornia.html

Why are they all customized and not left stock? Well, it's because they aren't worth as much stock, nor as enjoyable to look at or drive. People customize Mustangs, they don't customize GT350s.

uplanderguy

Note to omarman, from my earlier post:

although I don't pretend it's a latter-day Nomad

Also, Shifty, surely you know from your business that generally, bone-stock brings the most interest and often the most money. Customs are generally only very interesting to the guy who did the customizing.

You will not find another Chevelle wagon like this, for sale, ever. I am convinced of that.

I wouldn't pay $35K for it, but I find it infinitely more interesting than the "me too" SS396 Chevelles seen at any car show, anywhere.

andre1969

At a quick glance, those 2-door Chevelle wagons look like El Caminos with camper shells on them. Which, I guess, would make sense, since they served as the basis for the El Camino.

With that forward slant of the B-pillar, and the split rear side window, it also makes me think a bit of the old '55-57 Nomad. Just not quite as pretty.

FWIW, those '55-57 Nomads weren't very popular when they were new, but I think that's because they were expensive and, as wagons, not very practical. But, what makes the best new car doesn't always make for a great classic, and if practicality is what everybody lusted after, then the market for old 4-door sedans would be huge!

Mr_Shiftright

You know UP, I can't honestly say that bone stock vehicles bring the most interest and the most money. This is really only true for highly optioned, very popular, desirable vehicles. There has been a marked shift in the hobby toward customizing, modernizing, and driving old cars. The fact that we see people chopping up 2D chevelle wagons suggests to me that there is not much credence to the idea that they are more valuable stock than customized.

As for "rare", it is ironic but true that the most utilitarian, most produced cars in their day are now the most "rare"----that's because they all got used up and junked. This is hardly the road to glory, fame and riches.

So you have a 2D Chevelle base wagon with a 4-speed. I mean, how many people could possibly care about that in a hobby filled with glamorous cars?

ab348

I agree totally, uplander. To me customized far too often means chrome air cleaners, valve covers and other crap ordered from an Edelbrock or Moroso catalog and a set of yellow plug wires under the hood. Throw on a set of oversized wheels, garbage up the interior, add a garish paint job and hey presto, a customized car. They would be the last thing I would want, but hey, people right now seem to buy them. As the saying goes, there is no accounting for taste.

Restoring a car to the standard to which this one has been done takes far more effort, diligence, and in many cases,. money than one of those catalog-custom specials.

It may not be to the taste of some. Fine. But I admire it for what it is, for the fact it is completely unique, and for the effort that the owners put into it. And I am troubled by the tone I see in some of the posts arguing against it.

omarman

People customize Mustangs, they don't customize GT350s.

Bingo! There may be a few who labor to restore a '65 Mustang low-option coupe to "better than new" condition - although why I don't know.

If anything, a resto-rod version of a Mustang coupe with a well sorted upgrade in power and comfort gets more auction attention+money.

And the GT-350 is not only valued above all that, it's also one of the most cloned! Ironically, that's another thing which tells you what the market likes. Someday we may see more first gen Mustang GTs out there than Ford ever actually built! Ha!

Mr_Shiftright

Just look at things like Model A Fords or 50s era Biscaynes---the finished rod versions bring 3X the money of a bone-stock restored one.

On the opposite side---look at people who restore things like hearses and fire engines---they get devastated financially.

omarman

Did anyone else spot that rusty '67 Fairlane GT on American Pickers? They paid $7k for it, not running and in storage for years. Then a quick freshening up at a shop cost another $4k for brakes, fuel system, carb, and other issues.

No restoration yet, just needed $4k to make it road worthy. An appraiser put the current value at $14k, but the pickers have already sunk $11k into it. That leaves body work, paint, and interior along with whatever mechanical issues remain. Haha!

In this market I wonder why they're not just cherry picking what's "already done" out there and getting the best deal on the most popular cars? Didn't they over pay for another "garage find" Plymouth last spring that needed everything?

andre1969

On the opposite side---look at people who restore things like hearses and fire engines---they get devastated financially.

I'd love to get something like a '57-58 DeSoto, '61-62 Cadillac, or '61 Pontiac hearse or ambulance. But it would have to be something that was already done, and not needing a lot of work.

I guess a '61-62 Caddy wouldn't be TOO hard to find, but the DeSoto or Pontiac, next to impossible. I saw a '61 Pontiac ambulance in a junkyard in the mid 1990's, but judging from the trees growing up around it, it had been there since the 70's. Probably best to let that one rust in peace.

fintail

I saw that...apparently a real 390/4 speed car, but awfully "original" down to rusty quarters and rockers. They don't seem to be the types who would do a restoration - they like the patina, dust and dirt is popular these days.

Last year they bought a rough 39 Plymouth that was a bad impulse buy that I don't think they could flip for a profit. But they did get a few grand out of a crusty bullet nose Studebaker, so who knows.

Mr_Shiftright

I did see that show, and I thought the values suggested were quite out of line. It's a classic case of why marque hobbyists shouldn't be appraisers. So a guy who owns Fairlaines is not the one to be valuing them. He is not impartial. If THAT car is worth X, then his restored one is worth XX.

He put the car at $14K which is really the value of a GT 390 that is a "clean daily driver". This car was still a mess even after the work done to it. It's probably worth no more than $8500.

So really, the guy who sold the car for $7K was the smartest one of the bunch IMO.

I know people who produce reality TV shows. They are highly staged, and people are given money to pretend they are sellers or buyers. My barber got on Pawn Stars, to sell his "family's antique chest". They had actually pulled him off the street in Las Vegas because he's an interesting looking and funny guy. They gave him the chest, which he had never seen before, and rehearsed the story with him.

fintail

I've read that some of the locations on American Pickers are "salted" too - staged with a few exciting items to get things going.

I grew up with part time antique dealer parents, and spent time cruising around looking for stuff...we never had the luck of those guys, that's for sure.

Still, it's a fun show, always some kind of old car/motorcycle/automobilia.

I'm also certain "Storage Wars" is staged...these are some of the few shows I make it a point to watch, and they are all fake :shades:

uplanderguy

There sure are a good number of plain-Jane strippo Biscayne 2-door sedans with 409's, 396's, or 427's and 4-speeds, restored to the build sheet with dog dish hubcaps and rubber floor covering, that bring big money.

andre1969

There sure are a good number of plain-Jane strippo Biscayne 2-door sedans with 409's, 396's, or 427's and 4-speeds, restored to the build sheet with dog dish hubcaps and rubber floor covering, that bring big money.

I'm sure those would bring big money, when factory correct, but they were also most likely rare cars when new, and built mainly with racing in mind. Most people who bought a Biscayne or Bel Air probably just cheaped out and went with a 6-cyl or, at best, the small V-8. My guess is these cheapo cars are now prime candidates to have big-blocks thrown in and turned into hotrods, custom jobs, and such. I doubt too many people are mucking up the original, numbers-matching, high-output big block Biscaynes and Bel Airs.

Speaking of high output, my Dad had two Impalas back in the day, a '63 SS hardtop with the 425 hp 409, and then a '65 with a 425 hp 396. I imagine either of those must have been pretty rare, with those particular engine setups. They were both 4 on the floor, as well.

Dad sold the '63 when he got drafted, and bought the '65 when he got out of the Army. Then, one late night on a lonely back road around 1971, the '65 threw a rod, and Dad just abandoned it! I guess in '71 something like that, even a high-output Impala SS, was still just an old car? Or, maybe not? Dad didn't always have good sense when it came to cars. He probably should've at least tried to have the thing towed home!

uplanderguy

I might also mention, comparing a base early Mustang coupe to this car is apples-to-oranges as there were tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands of Mustangs equipped so. Here, you're starting with a population of 2,710 in 1964.

If the A/C worked, I'd probably pay $20K for this car...only because any more than that and I'd probably be looking for another place to live!

I admire that the guy used NOS when so much is available as repops for these Chevelles. Of course, with a 'rod' or 'custom', you can pretty much order out of the Summit Racing catalogue.

andre1969

I'd imagine factory a/c on a low-line Chevelle, even a wagon, was pretty rare in 1964.

uplanderguy

In the working-class small town I'm from, I honestly don't believe I saw a new Chevelle with A/C 'til probably '72 or '73--that's no joke, and from about '69-76 I practically lived at our Chevy dealer's...but was well-aware of cars, especially Chevys, before '69.

Studebakers are my passion now, but I grew up mesmerized with Chevys.

Mr_Shiftright

Sure, a 409 Biscayne brings good money, but for only one reason---it's a 409. The same Biscayne with a 283 is just a craigslist car with marginal appeal.

If anything, a very clean 283 Biscayne would become a big block car pretty quick----maybe a gasser or pro street.

One simply cannot equate a legendary 409 big block car with a 2-door stripper station wagon---the comparison falls apart IMO.

It makes no sense to restore a Biscayne 6 or small block.

uplanderguy

I'm not sure how the only trim level of that bodystyle available, with the biggest engine, a 4-barrel, one could have bought, a 4-speed, factory air, tilt steering wheel, optional padded dash, equates to a 'stripper' wagon, but I'm exhausted. A 283 Biscayne is one of tens of thousands of that body style. This is one of 2,710.

texases

Turns out that wagon did go for bid on Ebay, sgot bid to and sold for about $32k on Dec. 19. Sale must have fallen through.

uplanderguy

Interesting, thanks for posting. Seems like a lot of cars end up on eBay more than once...I think the excitement of bidding gets to people, then the reality sets in. A guy I know who has made a nice side living selling Studebakers of his own, and others, on eBay has basically said he's never seen so many people with unexpected deaths in the family at the time of consummating the purchase!

jwilliams2

Did anyone else spot that rusty '67 Fairlane GT on American Pickers? They paid $7k for it, not running and in storage for years.

I would love to find one for $7k, or better yet, a '66 Cyclone GT like the one I bought new in '66. What a fun car.

andys120

I saw an early 50s MG-TD moving under it's own power, it was black with a matching top which was up despite it being perfect convertible weather. It's a project to raise or drop the tops on those old roadsters so it's not worth for a short drive. This car looked in average driver shape and had the disc wheels with hub caps which were common on US-spec TDs.

omarman

Here's a link to a Road Test mag comparison of nine "American Sport Sedans" for 1967 and one of them is a Mercury Comet Cyclone GT. They also test a Ford Fairlane GTA too.

I'm not sure what changes were made on the Cyclone from '66 to '67 but I think the body style was the same until '68.

In high school I sold my Mustang and bought a '68 Torino GT 390/automatic. It was a good driver and had a real appetite for sunoco 260. But I drove it year round and it was much easier on my back than the Mustang. Great cruiser with the automatic.

I would have passed on the American Pickers '67 Fairlane though. That car needs everything and it needed $4k right away just to get road worthy.

kyfdx

On commuting duty, this AM, on the freeway...

uplanderguy

Andre, your Dad definitely had two desirable Impalas! I always thought the '65 was just beautiful, although I do know a guy who says they were really 'lightened up', construction-wise and underneath, compared to the '63-64.

That '65 styling, again, IMHO, is close to perfect. The '66 is sharp, but they generally ruined it by taking the round taillights off and also putting a molding smack down the side.

Mr_Shiftright

There were fewer Mutsibishi Raider pickups sold in one year than that car--would you pay $35,000 for one? It's "rarer". :P

Besides, you KNOW in your dark little Studebaker heart that if you had $35K to spend, you would *not* buy the rare Power Hawk with the 6 cylinder and a 4-speed floorshift (if they even made such a thing), but you'd rather have the Golden Hawk or the Avanti -- as would 99.9% of all Studebaker owners.

So, too, with Chevy lovers.

jwilliams2

Thanks, Omarman for the link. Interesting comparison. You are right, the '66 and '67 were basically the same. I was on a Mercury kick back then, had a '65 Cyclone, then got the '66 Cyclone GT, which I traded in for a new '67 Cougar XR7 GT. Of all of them, the '66 is the one I'd love to have today.

I enjoy watching the Mecum auctions, so many great cars on that show. And some are worth a lot of money, too. Seems with the Musclecars, the Chevy's and Mopar's bring the most, unless it is a Shelby.

lemko

What I want is a 100-point perfect 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham, preferably in white.

I thought you'd like something like this to match the Catalina:

lemko

Personally, I would love to find a bone-stock mint-condition 1961 Chevrolet Biscayne two-door sedan finished in cream with a gray cloth and vinyl interior with the 6-cylinder and three-speed on the column just like my Dad's old car to present to him as a gift someday. His car was unusual as he had the full wheel discs on it.

Mr_Shiftright

Here you go Lem...a mere $16K

http://www.chooseyouritem.com/classics/files/1769500/1769861.html

lemko

He must've meant Fleetwood. What's a Cadillac Fairmont, a Fox-bodied Caddy? That gold color is very common on 1969 Cadillacs. I had a neighbor way back in the day who had a 1969 Cadillac Calais hardtop in that same color.

fintail

And in Elaine, WA? I think they mean Blaine. Weird ad.

There's one of those Fleetwoods, a 69 or 70, that lives a couple blocks from where my fintail sleeps. I see it outside of the garage a couple times a year, it looks brand new, a pretty blue. I need to get a pic for you.

uplanderguy

I could enjoy a strippo Lark Regal 2-door sedan with supercharger--sleeper you know--and a beautiful stock one sold for $40K on eBay about three years ago.

For $35K, personally, I'd be looking for the best '64 Gran Turismo Hawk, dark color, black vinyl half roof, full instrumentation, Powershift floorshift automatic out there. A supercharged Jet Green one, sans vinyl top, sold for north of that amount two years ago on eBay.

In the Chevy world, I'd probably look for a '61 Impala bubbletop with SS equipment in any color not red (we're talking in excess of $35K here though of course), or a '62 Bel Air bubbletop with any engine whatsoever, as long as it was bone-stock. Again, can't be red though.

uplanderguy

One thing I always liked about Fleetwoods up through '69, was the lack of the typical Caddy side molding smack down the middle of the body side, and the wide rocker moldings and individual "FLEETWOOD" lettering at the bottom of the front fenders... classy. I see someone added a side molding to the '69 posted here.

I was always a sucker for the '65 Caddy first...except that the separate cornering lights always seemed to sag from the fender in a few years time! I like the '62 Fleetwood also. The '63 and '64 never did a thing for me...although they must have sold a ton and/or been good cars as it seems like a ton of those model years survived.

Here is a beautiful '66 Fleetwood Brougham IMO:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.leftcoastclassics.com/1966-cadill- ac-fleetwood/1966-cadillac-fleetwood-001.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.leftcoastclass- ics.com/1966-cadillac-fleetwood/&usg=__dZM-5IByac_T7QBXLviJ8pOjFtI=&h=480&w=640&- sz=248&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=9XY_NPZvIO8dwM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&- prev=/images%3Fq%3DCadillac%2BAnn%2BMiller%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1

uplanderguy

Here's a '62 Chevy I like a lot, and the lack of engine identification on the front fender makes me think it's a six:

http://www.chevroletimpalas.com/62_belair_blue04.jpg

andre1969

That's a nice looking Bel Air. I actually prefer that fastback roof to the more formal roof the the Impala and most of the other B-bodies used that year. IIRC, didn't a few '62 Catalinas also use that fastback roof?

I thought the 6-cyl had a badge though, and it was the 283 V-8 that didn't? At least, I remember my Dad saying that he put 6-cyl badges on his '63 Impala SS409, as kind of a joke.

Mr_Shiftright

Those aren't atypical market prices however, especially on the GT Hawks. I'm sure you could find any of those cars for a good deal less, since you don't seem to be an emotional buyer.

scottl

I've read through some of these posts and I'm encouraged by some of the prices I see. I don't watch television much, so I've never heard of "American Pickers", but if some moronic reality show paid $7000 for a rusted Fairlane, maybe I can get them to show me $15K for my completely original, never rusted, 390/4-speed AMX, a car that kicks 1968 Fairlane a*s*s.

Send them my way!

Mr_Shiftright

I"m sure your AMX coupe would bring that kind of money. A TV reality show, or an eBay sale, is a database of ONE. Neither the drunk who spends double on a car, or the wicked exploiter who fools the desperate widow into selling her departed's 63 Corvette Split Window for cheap---neither are "the market".

andre1969

spotted last night on "Attack of the 50 Foot Woman"...


It's really amusing to see the sequence in which this one gets wrecked. A giant alien grabs it, picks it up, and throws it back down. However, when you see it being dropped, it's a really quick cut of something that looks like a scale model of a 1949 or so Ford Woody wagon, or something similar...nothing even remotely resembling a late 50's Mopar. But supposedly, the movie only cost around $88,000 to make, so I guess you can't expect perfection!

A 1958 Imperial convertible also featured prominently in the movie...


And a '58 Plymouth, probably a Plaza, decked out in police trim:


This movie was Baaaaaad!!! But still a fun watch. In some ways, I think these old bad movies are a lost art. Sure, there are plenty of bad movies out there nowadays, especially with the advent of straight to video, or "Sci-Fi Originals" and the like, but it's just not quite the same.

nace818

I love the color. Wish my Lucerne was that color.

uplanderguy

I like that '62 Bel Air roofline too, and I think the '62 body was 'cleaned up' a bit from the '61. '61 big Pontiacs had that roofline, but no '62's did.

In '62, the big Chevys had no engine ID on the front fender in front of the wheel opening, for a six; a small vee for the 283, and crossed flags over a vee for the 327; 409 I think added "409" below the vee.

In '63, there was a "6" emblem on the front fender, but the other V8 emblems were the same as in '62 except the "409" was above the vee.

explorerx4

do you like these?

68 AMX

69 AMX

fintail

Recent sightings - Volvo P1800 in very nice condition, Toyota Corolla 4x4 wagon in decent condition, Audi Fox 2-door in "barn find" condition.

fintail

Today's sightings - gorgeous white - 60-61 Corvette, white, and an early Spitfire - 60s model. Both cars were obviously restored.

kyfdx

Alfa Milano.... moving under it's own power... :surprise:

scottl

The red one looks like a bad repaint, and the wheels are ugly.

The white one looks better, but it is obviously a restore job. It also looks to have a lot of aftermarket stuff tacked into the interior, and probably in the engine bay, too. Not a big deal if that is what you want.

Mine is like a time capsule. Original paint, never molested inside or out. Stuff that was swapped out over the years on 99% of these is still intact, like the headliner, the AM radio, the smog pump, and the vacuum wiper motor. Of course the engine and trans are original, never opened and still strong. It has 60K miles. Nothing was ever drilled on the body or the dash, and the car came from Arizona, has always been stored inside, and has never seen a speck of body or frame rust.

I did have to fix the gas tank, which rusted from the inside due to the the stupid ethanol they now put in gasoline. I had to replace the carpet, and the seats need to be reworked. Really only the drivers seat is bad, but you would never get them to match without doing both.

Other than that, it has all been normal maintenance for a 60's car, like the starter and the brake master cylinder.

Restoring an AMX to concours would be a ridiculously expensive proposition these days. When Chrysler bought AMC, they crushed most of the tooling, sold off all the parts and basically killed 90% of what you would need to restore one. I saw a dented, rusted 68-69 AMX hood on eBay a few years ago for $1100. An original gas tank goes for $1500. A repaired steering wheel (they ALL cracked) goes for $600. There now are finally a few repro pieces being made like taillights and grills, but the sheet metal is almost impossible to find. The driveline stuff is a lot easier, since it was shared among many AMC vehicles.

They were great cars, but the combination of low production and the Chrysler purging of everything AMC make them very difficult to restore. The 1970 models are the real nightmare, since fewer than 5000 were made and they differ significantly from the 68-69 models. I think they are better looking and had better interiors, but I wouldn't go near one unless it was 100% intact.