I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

Saw a Camry 5 door today...the modern equivalent would be 19 feet long and weigh 6000 lbs. Maybe the Venza is as close as it comes. Also saw a ~1980 Civic and a mint looking mid 80s Toyota 4x4.

Saw a fintail, mine. Saw a tectite grey W210 of some variety, couldn't tell if it was another E55, but it is a rare color - same as mine. Took my car out on the highway today, been tending to some annoying rattles - it's sounding much better now, smooth and fast,

fintail

Took the E55 in for an oil change today - hanging around the place were a couple of 126s, a couple of 107s, a couple of 108 sedans, and a 280SE cabrio, high grille 6 cyl (the cheap way to do it, but still far from cheap).

jljac

Ha, I never heard the expression "Price Cliff" but if I were looking at 1970s collectibles I'd avoid anything built 1974-on which was the year that very strict emission regulations caused a steep drop in power and driveability that wasn't rectified fully until EFI was introduced in the mid-late 80s.

I am in total agreement. My parents bought a 1974 Impala and it was slow, a gas hog and unreliable. It would not start unless the seatbelts were fastened.

Mr_Shiftright

By 1974 Detroit was just slamming cars together in slapdash fashion. They had little competition and they didn't much care how the cars were put together. You can read many personal accounts of line workers for GM in those days, about how screwed up the assembly line was. They'd run different models past the worker at a fast clip and expect him to do *different* things on each model. Some workers spoke about how they didn't even have time to touch the cars, much less put the right part on them. So they all ended up in the defect lot where someone had to figure out how to fix them. Often, they didn't even start up to take them to the defect lot. So they were patched up and sent to dealers.

The 70s cars you see restored today are probably in much better shape than when they were built.

ab348

There is a story in the current Hemmings Classic Car about working on the Pontiac line in '73 that is essentially what you have written.

Mr_Shiftright

yes, I think that article came excerpted from a book of worker memoirs IIRC. I remember reading about this when I was researching the work of Deming and other early attempts at quality control. The point of that article was, I think, that it costs as much to build a bad car as a good one.

explorerx4

ever seen the movie 'Blue Collar'?

andre1969

1958 DeSoto Fireflite convertible, and a 1958 Dodge 4-door police car. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see them in person, but on tv. I was looking through the Hulu stuff online last night, and came across an old tv show I'd never heard of before, called "One Step Beyond". Sort of a Twilight Zone/Outer Limits type anthology series.

It was kinda interesting seeing the DeSoto in motion, just being driven as a brand-new car, rather than some ancient antique. At one point it was driven down a hilly dirt road, without a care in the world, almost like it was an SUV or something.

I wonder if Mopar supplied the cars for the whole run of the show, or just this pilot episode?

andre1969

I went to the Imcdb to see if they had any entries for "One Step Beyond", but they didn't. I did, however find the same DeSoto appearing in a movie called "A Monster on Campus"...
I can tell it's the same car because it's sporting the same license plate.

And, on second thought, maybe a '58 Fireflite isn't such a great off-roader, after all!

lemko

Isn't that an early 1950s "Job-Rated" Dodge truck in the background? I get a kick out of movies where everybody in town drives the same company's cars. The Mayberry Ford dealer really must've had a thriving business! I recall a movie with Bob Hope and Lucille Ball where everybody had a1960 Buick.

andre1969

There was one episode of the Luci-Desi comedy hour where they sported a couple of '58 Buicks. Here's a screen grab. Ricky was driving the one in front, which you can just see the tailfin of, a Limited 4-door hardtop. Lucy was driving the convertible, which was a Century, I believe. And this shot's showing off a '56 DeSoto Fireflite, as well.

andre1969

wrong screen grab. Meant to do this one: Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour

lemko

I can't find a pic, but there was a short-lived spinoff of "Threes Company" called "The Ropers." Mr. Roper drove a beat-up 1956 DeSoto and his snooty neighbor had a Seville.

andre1969

Yeah, I remember that! Been ages since I've seen "The Ropers", but I remember that car well. At one point, Mr. Roper ran over a fire hydrant and the neighbor (Jeffrey Tambor, but I can't remember the character's name) got all wet.

There was a bad horror movie from 1980 called "Mother's Day" that had "Mother" driving a '58 Firedome 4-door hardtop:


I only saw the opening moments of it. It caught my eye when they showed the old lady driving the DeSoto. She gave these punks a ride, and they were gonna kill her or rob her or something mean, but then she turned the tables, took 'em out into the woods, where her inbred kids ambushed them and butchered the punks. Can't remember anything after that, though.

Oh, yeah, there's this new video game coming out called "Sam and Max" or something about that, about a talking bunny and dog detective driving around in a 1960 DeSoto convertible and solving crimes. How unrealistic...everybody knows they didn't make a DeSoto convertible in 1960! :shades:
I wonder if that's the first time a DeSoto ever got featured in a video game?

berri

If you want to see old Mopars on TV shows watch "Leave It To Beaver". The first season they had a 57 Ford, but after that its mostly Mopars. I think there is even a DeSoto parked on the street in the credits. The later episodes even have those unique 60's you like. Highway Patrol's later episodes had a lot of Mopars, mostly Buick and Merc in the earlier episodes with an occasional Plymouth. Sky King always drove a Chrysler wagon, early episodes a 55 or 56. then a 57.

lemko

I never watched the show, but I think some character in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" has a black 1959 DeSoto.

lemko

...teal blue 1963 Chevrolet Nova four-door sedan on Rockwell Avenue near Oxford Avenue in NE Philly.

Mr_Shiftright

66 Corvette Coupe, 427/450HP, Nassau Blue, white interior, side pipes,knock-offs, neat as a pin top to bottom. Awesome. GM never built it so nice.

andre1969

I never really watched it either but yeah, the character Spike drove a black '59 Fireflite 4-door hardtop.

I know 4-door hardtops aren't worth all that much, but I always thought they were a really cool body style. I wouldn't mind having one.

texases

On I-45 north of Houston:

I can't remember the last time I saw a Vega coupe, running or not...

fintail

Old cars look good in snow

Electra Riviera

These are quite uncommon

Good bids

Row your own hoe

Wow

Not a car where you want to see "project"

Red

Thick patina gets bids

Shark

Nobody bid, shocking

"What says elegance, style, taste, status, and fun better than this..."

Mr_Shiftright

34 Buick 90 --- top o' the line and a fine-looking car. Bids are very strong, what you would pay for show quality. Let's hope this car IS show quality. Cheaper than a Cadillac or Packard and just as nice.

62 Buick Electra --- bad color for this type of car, 4-door. I don't think he'll get his price.

60 Cadillac Brougham --- prices for really nice ones range from $30K--$40K, so he's in the ballpark. Personally, I find them awkward looking in this body style. There is nary a 4-door GM car that looks better than its 2D equivalent--65-69 Corvair excepted.

61 Chrysler 3-speed manual: How weird. Not a car I'd personally consider restoring.

Mercedes 600 --- look like "tons of money was spent" all right---but badly. Not for the faint of heart, this baby. Impressive, expensive, and what the hell do you do with it?

1912 Overland --- great old car. I'd just get it running, clean it up and leave it like it is. A bit overpriced but hey, where you gonna find another one like this?

1938 Graham--- cool car--I'm surprised it isn't getting stronger bids. Maybe the purists are offended?

LADA -- ad says "It is a head turner to say the least and if you understand Russian you may catch some of the comments that will be shouted your way as you drive around town. " YEAH, and you might not want to translate them either....

"What says elegance, style, taste, status, and fun better than this Classic Motor Carriage built Tiffany Classic Coupe?"

Answer: A painting of Elvis done on velvet?

andre1969

I kinda like that '80 Delta 88 coupe, for the fact that it has the bucket seats and console. And the beige/buckskin interior is a nice color, helps tone down that bright orange-red color, which IMO is better suited to a rental car Hyundai Excel than something like this.

I'm kinda curious about its engine, too, a Chevy 305-2bbl. I thought Chevy dropped the 2-bbl 305 after 1979, at least in cars? And according to the EPA website, an '80 Delta 88 would've had a Buick 231, Olds 260-2bbl V-8, Olds 307-4bbl V-8, 350-4bbl V-8, or the dreaded Diesel 350, which was fuel injected.

My Consumer Guide book, which has been known to be wrong, shows the same engines for the most part, except lists a Pontiac 265 V-8 instead of the Olds 260. The only Oldsmobile listing it shows for the 305 is a 155 hp 4-bbl that the Cutlass used.

ab348

The seller is incorrect regarding the engine. According to the photo that is an Olds engine, probably the 307.

I didn't realize the Holiday 88 option carried on into 1980 -- I thought it ended the prior year. They are neat cars, though the paint color of this one is unfortunate. I would be a little nervous of those Goodyear Eagle ST tires, since they haven't been made for a long, long time. I like the interior very much -- it is a Cutlass console and buckets dropped into a Delta coupe. One thing I notice that I also was unaware of, having owned a '78 Delta 88 and driven and parted out others, was the placement of the cruise switch under the speedo. On my '78 it was over to the right on the dash, near the lighter. Since these cars could also be ordered with a set of gages that fit in the space under the speedo. I wonder where the cruise switch went in those cases -- perhaps back over where it was in '78?

andre1969

Yup, now that I look closer, I see the oil filler cap hiding behind the heater hose, a telltale sign that it's an Olds engine, versus the Chevy, where the oil filler cap was in the valve cover.

I thought those bucket seats looked familiar, but didn't immedately make the connection that they came from the Cutlass. I recognize that soft corduruoy pattern; my '82 Cutlass Supreme had the same texture, although it had a split bench seat.

I know Pontiac offered bucket seats for a couple years in the Bonneville, too. I wonder if they did a similar thing, just taking the buckets out of a Grand Prix? Did the Impala/Caprice or LeSabre ever offer bucket seats? I'm thinking that since they had the turbocharged LeSabre Sport coupe, that Buick at least, might have.

lemko

I feel the same way too. My Dad bought a lot of 2-door hardtops, sedans, convertibles, and coupes over his lifetime and I always thought it was a royal PITA to fold the seat back to crawl into the rear seat or get out.

I had the pleasure of owning a 4-door hardtop back in the day - my 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. It was neat having such a huge car and no pillar - just a big open expanse when the windows were rolled down. I'm sure few Cadillac owners drove around with the windows down since the cars had A/C climate control and all that, but I did!

dieselone

I feel the same way too. My Dad bought a lot of 2-door hardtops, sedans, convertibles, and coupes over his lifetime and I always thought it was a royal PITA to fold the seat back to crawl into the rear seat or get out.

No question about that. I couldn't imagine dealing with a coupe considering how often I pickup and drop off my kids and their friends at various functions.

When the kids are gone, I'd love to have a coupe again, guy down the road has a black CTS coupe, looks sharp.

ab348

When I was a kid my folks often said that they wanted to buy a 2-door car so that us kids would be safe in the back and they wouldn't have to worry about us falling out of an accidentally-opened door. They eventually bought a '69 Impala sport coupe and hated it. Their next car was a '71 Dodge Monaco 4-door hardtop.

explorerx4

Story says Barracuda crashed on G W's lawn.
Sure looks like a Cougar to me.
This link has it right, click the play button.

oregonboy

Yep, it's a Cougar, but that is what he article said it was:

"The man was driving a 1970s era Mercury Cougar to visit one of Bush's neighbors, according to CBS affiliate KTVT-TV in Dallas."

explorerx4

the original link had it as a Barracuda, but the actual article i linked to has it correctly as a Cougar.

uplanderguy

I love '64 Studebakers, and usually get bored of constant Big Three stuff at shows, but I admit to loving this '64 Chevelle on eBay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevelle-Two-Door-Station-Wagon-Stock-Factory-4-S- - peed-/300507681468?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item45f7a752bc

When I was a kid, a family friend's two daily cars were a six-cylinder 2-door '64 Chevelle wagon and a '60 Lark VIII Deluxe 4-door sedan, and I remember riding in both of them.

Production of 2,710 is ridiculously low for a '64 Chevy! I mean, Studebaker built 1,767 '64 Gran Turismo Hawks and only built them until 12/20/63!

Very neat Chevelle I think.

uplanderguy

...this car is rough; I wish it were a darker color and didn't have the Landau top, but I always liked these cars with the buckets and console. Reminds me of what the Grand Prix really was, more than a decade earlier. A '79 GP just didn't cut it for me, in comparison to the Bonneville.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-Pontiac-Bonneville-T158889-/370468811932?pt=- US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item5641a9749c

fintail

Wow, that's really something. Crazy and expensive, probably better than new, but you'd be a smash hit at any Chevy show. I believe the production number claim too. I like it.

fintail

This morning my mother was remembering an old Christmas movie she liked from the 80s, "One Magic Christmas" with Mary Steenburgen and a few others I don't recall. Doesn't seem to be on TV this year, but I do remember it featured a fairly cool 58 Dodge, which unfortunately gets driven into a river (movie is from 1985, just an old beater then I guess)

I did find a clip from it online

ab348

That Chevelle wagon was recently featured in Hemmings Classic Car and is a really interesting story. Nicest one in the world no doubt, and equipped with a great deal of interesting stuff. Worth $35K? Maybe if you are into Chevelles or Chevys in general, because you're never going to find another one as nice. That seems to be a lot of money to me, but then again, I'm not that much into Chevys. I find it odd that the family would go to such pains to find it, restore it for what was obviously a great deal of money, and then now try to cash out. I guess sentiment isn't what it used to be.

omarman

Key components of the air conditioning system were rebuilt by a company specializing in original automotive air conditioning systems. However, the system is not currently charged.

All that to say: inop A/C.

Instead of using reproduction hardware, original bolts, washers, clips, screws, body bolts and mounts and other tiny detail items were re-plated with appropriate-color zinc plating...The driveshaft was restored to its original bare metal finish with bluing effect on welds and correct inspection marks reapplied. An original, correct-dated 55 amp alternator was located and restored with new correctly dated diodes.

But was it re-slammed together on an authentic Detroit-like assembly line setting to assure 1964 quality?

Yes I am being a bit unfair. Lots of over-the-top restorations boast much of the same (or more) authentic "details." But we're talking about a well-optioned, low line station wagon here. Not the same kind of rare as a documented '65 Chevelle SS with 375hp - and which usually gets the restored alternator with "correctly dated diodes" treatment.

Isn't this wagon rare because most people who wanted lots of power and options skipped over the 300 line to begin with? I mean the "most powerful" available 283 for this year/model is still just a squeaky mickey mouse compared to the rat power available one year later.

Oddball then as now. $35K can buy more excitement than this.

uplanderguy

Isn't this wagon rare because most people who wanted lots of power and options skipped over the 300 line to begin with?

It's rare because it's a two-door wagon, which wasn't available in the Malibu series. Somebody wanted as much performance as they could get in a two-door wagon. I can't think of another '60's or '70's Chevy bodystyle, any series, with production numbers that low.

I might add, the difference in trim between a 300 and a Malibu in '64 was pretty darn minimal. In '65 the 300 series was pushed more downmarket and a "300 Deluxe" series was put just below the Malibu.

I wouldn't (couldn't) pay that much, but I wouldn't be surprised that he does get that amount or close from a Chevyphile. But you are right....talk about 'doublespeak' on the A/C--for $35K I'd want the A/C to work.

texases

Translation on the a/c: "blah blah blah the a/c doesn't work". Nothing else matters.

As others have noted, a $35k car like this should be near-flawless.

ab348

Well, I dunno - $35K isn't all that much compared to some other prices being paid these days, and it would cost far more to replicate that quality of restoration. I missed this point originally: the resto is 13 years old, so it's possible that the A/C just needs recharging. Maybe the son of the original owenr has had a financial setback and needs cash. Who knows.

texases

While it just might need a recharge, those are code-words to me that it might need something major. And were it not for the 'rare' factor, $35k would be crazy $$. All major systems should work at this price, and a/c is one of those systems.

andre1969

That Bonneville is pretty rough looking, but still cool to see a surviving example. Thanks for posting it. That ad also clears up something for me that I always wondered...whether Pontiac was still putting their own 350 in these cars by '79. Years ago I looked at a '79 Bonneville 4-door that a local guy was going to donate for a tax write off, and it had a Buick 350. But, that one looks like a Pontiac 350, and if the "P" code meant the same thing in '79 that it did in '76, it's the 4-bbl.

I really didn't care for that look on the '78-80 Grand Prix where they put the turn signal between the headlights, giving it a heavy-handed look. I thought it looked okay on the '77 Grand Prix, or the '80-81 Catalina/Bonneville, which were bigger cars and could carry it off better. I thought the '81-87 Grand Prix, which had more of a cleaner, aero-wedge look to it, and a wider grille and normal quad lights, looked much better.

andre1969

I think I saw that movie on tv with my Mom one night when it first came out! Probably one of those network "Friday Night at the Movies" things they used to have, or something like that. At least, I remember a mother and some small kids in a '58 Dodge going off a bridge...so how many Christmas movies could there be that featured something like that? :P

I remember screaming when the Dodge went off the bridge, and Mom just looking at me like I lost my mind

fintail

That sounds like the one. I remember the plot...Dodge was parked in front of a bank with the engine running, kids in the car, dad goes in to run an errand. Bank gets robbed, dad gets shot, robber uses Dodge as a getaway car and drives off the bridge. Sad ending for that finned thing, but it was filmed in Canada, so it could have been a rust nightmare anyway.

Speaking of Canada and Mopars, I saw something really odd today. A lowline 55-56 Mopar sedan, almost no chrome at all, badged "Crusader". Quick search reveals it was the Canadian stripper model. Should have snapped a pic.

Mr_Shiftright

No, you're not being unfair. Simply put, that Chevelle wagon is rare because no one wanted one when it was new. Nobody ordered it, so they didn't build many. It's not like it was an intentional "limited production" because of either a factory promotion ("special edition models") or a specialized intention (Hemi motors, etc). So "rare" is just ebay-speak for "unpopular when new" in this case.

For $35K you can buy some very tasty 60s -era GM cars that are a lot more fun and a lot better optioned, including some decent ragtops, restored resto-rods and pro tourers, and some outstanding 2D hardtops.

IMO it's worth no more than any other 60s GM wagon----show condition, maybe $15K--$18K.

uplanderguy

IMO it's worth no more than any other 60s GM wagon----show condition, maybe $15K--$18K.

I believe it will go for more than the amounts you quote, by a comfortable margin. This is not the difference between a Biscayne and Impala wagon, it's the difference between two and four doors. There's a hint of Nomad in the shape and function of the rear side windows and shape of the front doors, although I don't pretend it's a latter-day Nomad.

I can't think of "any other '60s GM wagon" that I've seen for sale, with a four-speed either.

Since it doesn't appear to be a true auction...only a "BIN"...we may never know what it eventually sells for, sadly.

Mr_Shiftright

Well even if it sold for a million dollars, that's just one car one time, under who knows what circumstances? That's not a market.

I try, within the limits of my own knowledge, to share my opinion on values that expresses "market values", that is, the summation of many sales, averaged out---not one number one time.

I certainly agree with you that this is a very very nice restoration with desirable options. All I'm trying to express is that a) being "rare" doesn't always equate with value and b)

it still looks exactly like a cheap station wagon---- a very nice, new-looking cheap station wagon.

Why spend $35K to look like $15K? I *suppose* there is the allure of bringing something different to the show, and I can relate to that, but it's a rather expensive way to display a car that is, at face value, rather modest.

and a 4-speed floorshift on a plain-jane wagon? I mean, really. The length and weight makes no sense as a vintage drag car either.

lemko

My parents used the old "kids accidentally opening a rear door" excuse as their justification for buying a two-door car as well. My Dad's first four-door car was a 1972 Ford LTD Country Squire and he reverted back to coupes six year later with a 1978 Ford Granada coupe which was followed by a 1981 Ford Thunderbird and later a 1989 Chrysler LeBaron coupe. I think he just really liked coupes as his first car was a 1950 Ford club coupe.

Heck, when I was a kid, I thought sedans were better cars because more doors must equal better! :P

uplanderguy

Well even if it sold for a million dollars, that's just one car one time, under who knows what circumstances? That's not a market.

I try, within the limits of my own knowledge, to share my opinion on values that expresses "market values", that is, the summation of many sales, averaged out---not one number one time.

The point is, this is a one-of-one car. All the years I've been on the 'net, I've not seen one single, solitary Chevelle two-door wagon of this condition or powertrain combination for sale.

BTW, the original Nomad was a sales bomb also...but they seem to bring decent money.

andre1969

I don't think I've ever seen a 2-door Chevelle wagon, in any condition!