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Comments
28,394.12 (500 below invoice)
515.00 (dest)
0.00 (advertising fee)
0.00 (rebates)
875.64 (VA TAX)
49.62 (couty business tax)
279.00 (processing fee)
33.50 (DMV license fee)
15.00 (VA inspection fee)
20.00 (Title fee)
--------------------------
30,181.88 (Transaction Cost)
Anyone knows the difference between transaction cost and out of the door price?
I wanted to pay with a check - straight cash. Dealer said if i wanted to use a personal check, i'd have to sign some "lien" forms so that if my check bounced, they'd be able to "finance the vehicle". Otherwise I'd need a cashier's check. Being that it was 7:30, i wouldn't be able to get one. So i said sure.
He brought out a form, with the price on a "sales worksheet". It looked fine, but he wrote the price in the "monthly payments" column, which was odd to me. He asked me to sign it, and i looked at it and thought, there is nothing important on this to sign. This was my "ohcrap" moment where i realized i was dealing with a shark.
We went through several more forms that were nonsensical and i refused to sign, including a credit report, personal reference check, etc..
I was going to pay for this with a cashier's check tomorrow, so i thought what is this all about? I just need a final number to put on the cashiers check. But somehow, this was too impossible for them to do.
So i get up to leave, and the sales guy insults me (several times over the course of the hour i was there) and they finally write down a number which includes 150 bucks in license fees. (not sure how much they are in WA? looked like 1/2 that from my research?)
Anyway, i thought i'd share this story in case any of you end up at a similar dealership.
The $150 in license fees sounds about right, particularly in the Seattle area with the high local tax situation, what with RTA and the like.
I don't want to defend the dealer's methods and tactics (which sounded awful), but a dealer who accepts a personal check for a vehicle does need to protect themselves in some way from a check that bounces. Typically, they'll do it in one of two ways:
1. Financing the vehicle for a very short time until the check clears, as they attempted to do with you.
2. Keeping the title and registration paperwork until the check clears. Essentially, you walk out of the dealership with only a bill-of-sale, and they don't consumate the deal until your check clears. If your check bounces, they still have the title/MSO and can theoretically repossess the vehicle.
On a recent Mini Cooper purchase in a far-away state from my WA home (Texas), the dealer did #2. I checked with them beforehand about whether I needed to bring certified funds or cash and they said they'd be happy to take my personal check. It was only when I had left the dealership a few hours after buying the car that I realized that I didn't have a title or MSO to the vehicle. I called them and they explained they needed to hold it until the check clears - I wish they had mentioned that on the phone, but it wasn't a big deal. A week later, the MSO appeared via Fed Ex. There is some risk that they wouldn't send the paperwork, but then again, there is some risk on their part that my check would bounce and I have their car 2K miles away. So I thought it was equitable risk from both parties perspective.
If you really want to make things clean, you bring certified funds (although even these are looked upon skeptically with the scams going around - a local bank helps), arrange a wire transfer, or just pull out a huge wad of $100 bills.
On another purchase of a BMW ten years ago, the dealer went the financing route - this allowed me to go out and get a credit union loan after I had possession of the car. Yes, they did have to do a credit check on me, I had to fill out some simple loan forms, and I had to sign all the loan papers like I was buying a car with financing. It has a 30-minute hassle, but it worked out fine.
So it doesn't appear that the dealership was very upfront or nice about the whole thing, but the basic idea that they would need to go through the typical loan paperwork to float a short balloon loan while your personal check clears is customary. I think the hold title/MSO way is better though and I'd probably insist on this method if I paid for a car by personal check in the future.
The key to all these things is to work out the details and caveots beforehand - no surprises in finance mgr's office. I'm very anal about this sort of thing - I've had too many experiences where they slip stuff in at the last minute. I know they're just trying to get their profit margins back after I push them into a low-profit deal, but if you've worked out the details beforehand (e.g., say to the salesman before negotiations that the agreed-upon price includes EVERYTHING except TTL, right?) then the pregnant moments in the finance mgr's office are typically short and in one's favor. Leaving you more energy to fight off the hard-sells on protection packages, credit life insurance, and extended warranties that most of us don't want or need.
Good luck on your next deal,
- Mark
Thanks.
We ended up purchasing from Bellevue Honda - a very nice experience and a very helpful sales person who did not try to trick me into anything. The whole process took a few phone calls, where we agreed on a price, and the purchase was less than an hour.
2005 Pilot EX-L + Navi
Doorguards,mudflaps,wheel moldings
Negotiated Price: 32000
Tax: 2912
DocSvcFee: 35
Estimated Vehicle Tax, License, Title, +Registraiton: 163.75
OTD for 35110.75
Thx to this board for all the help! I also found using edmunds.com to be helpful and www.carbuyingtips.com was very helpful in understanding the purchasing process.
Although I haven't bought from Bellevue, my father purchased a CRV there a year ago and they were the best local price we could get and the deal was very straightforward.
- Mark
Thanks
St. Louis Honda Internet Manager was my contact.
You can buy a base
EX for 27,9XX at same place.
Have 1500 miles now and get about 16-18 mixed driving.
Has amazing performance almost like my Murano--maybe better. Got cash price and trade price so I could tell what they actually put into the Murano.
Please let me know if you get the dealer name from the person that you replied to in your earlier post. Also, depending on the time frame for purchasing your vehicle we could discuss the possibility of a group buy.
Let me know. Thanks!
You may want to check out www.hondapilot.org for extensive discussions on the subject of aftermarket res (dvd) installs including recommendations and quite often - pictures. You can perform a search regarding this subject in the forum section of the site.
Leesburg Honda Provided the below (not such a great deal - they were kinda rude in person)
OUT THE DOOR PRICE for EX-L with Pinstrips
Door Edge Guards
Fender Well Trim
Mud Guards
Alloy Wheel Locks
Roof Rail Cross Bars
Virginia Sale 3%
Price $29,994.12
Freight $515.00
Total $30,509.12
State Tax $923.64
DBL Tax $30.51
Processing $279.00
Tags $51.50
Total $31,793.77
Mike Pruitt of Akron Ohio offered 29109 plus taxes tags title. I believe driveway delivery will be about 500. Let me know what you discover but I think the DC area doesnt offer much room for negotiation
I just bought a 2005 EX-L last night and was going over the numbers this morning to see how I did. Here it is.....
2005 EX-L
Maryland Sales Tax 5%
$29,009 ($500 below invoice and included freight of $515)
Wheel locks
Splash Guards
Door Edge Guards
(all at cost) - about $129 all together
Tax $1,456
$30595
and $99 processing fee
First offer was $1200 below MSRP by dealer - my first offer was $100 over invoice, then the car I wanted (black) was sold to the people next to me after being at the dealership for 15 minutes. I looked at 3 others and decided on white and asked for $500 below invoice. I was surprised as it was no trouble and was approved in 5 minutes. Looking back on it - I think if I would have pushed harder I could have taken them to $1000 under invoice.
Dealership:
Herson's Honda
Rockville, MD
Dealership's visited and not recommended:
Ourismon in Bethesda (no moving on the price - welcome to bethesda).
Criswell in Germantown (max I could negotiate was $2000 off MSRP - looked like a shark tank - 30 sales people and 3 customers).
Hope this helps others.......as an FYI - I have driven Ford SUV's and trucks all my life - two things changed my mind - fuel economy and resale value.
Got a EX-L Silver otd for $28885 of course had to pay the VA sales taxes on this end but we just drove over one afternoon stayed in a hotel about 30 minutes away from the dealer (not much in Chillicothe)got up the next am and was on the road by 10 am cost about 100 bucks meals and hotel/gas and saved 1700 over the lowest NOVA price.
**************
Dear Valued Customer,
As part of Happy Honda Days we at Honda of El Cerrito are proud to announce our PILOT END OF THE YEAR SUPER SALE! Beginning Friday December 17th thru Sunday December 19th we are offering unbelievable discounts off our already low prices. Simply choose the model below that best suits your needs and bring a copy of this Offer into our Showroom to take advantage of this incredible offer. This offer cannot be combined with any other special offers from Honda of El Cerrito and is only valid through the Internet Department for in stock vehicles (excluding accessories) only until close of business on December 19,2004.
We want everyone to have a Happy Holiday Season! So make this one special with a new Honda for your loved one or yourself!
2005 HONDA PILOT LX
$24,303.00 plus tax, license and fees
2005 HONDA PILOT EX
$26,570.00 plus tax, license and fees
2005 HONDA PILOT EX with LEATHER
$28,481.00 plus tax, license and fees
2005 HONDA PILOT EX with LEATHER AND DVD
$29,784.00 plus tax, license and fees
Happy Holiday from the Internet Department at Honda of El Cerrito!
When you go to their site click 'search new inventory,' and then on left side of the screen scroll down and click 'click here to view our new inventory.' I'm only telling you this because it took me a couple of minutes to figure out where the "no haggle" prices were listed, it's sort of hidden on the bottom of the left column.
Called the dealership to inquire into their "price breakdown," (per the recommendation on their site) and was told that an '05 EX-L out the door with all taxes, tags, freight, etc. (I was very clear that I wanted EVERYTHING included in the final price) was $30,650.00.
Honda will offer 2.9% for 60 Months on any New vehicle.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2005 Pilot EX-L
Dealer one is pricing at $29,097 (including Dest)
Deaker two - $29,335 (including Dest)
At both, I've priced the following:
Spash Guards - $150
Fendertrim - $125
Pin Stripe - $45
Wheel Locks - $70
Side Step bars - $625
Lower trim - $425
(all these already include labor)
The deal maker is how much they give me for my trade, a 2001 Ford Escape XLS V6 4x4 with a few options installed (towing and side step) 74K miles. Kelly Blue Book comes back at $8230 minus about $500 for some new tires. So far the highest offer I had was from an Acura dealership while looking at a used MDX. They were going to give $7500, which I made them put in writing. The Honda dealers have only gone as high as $6900.
Sounds like you got a good deal. I think I'm on my way to going with dealer one, but walked away last night when I said offer on trade was too low. Going to ask dealer 2 to beat dealer 1.
It's gives you a lot of what to look out for, what to do and not to do. Hope that helps and good luck. At least read up on the financing part so your prepared. Don't let them change the price or have them tell you you're a credit risk, since they'll beef up the rate to make themselves more money. Not all dealers do this, but when it comes to car buying, in the end the only person I trust is myself, so being informed with knowledge is the best way to deal with them.
But the last one i test drove was in Koon's Manassas, VA which offerred the following (500 below invoice). I walked out as i asked him to add a running board and an auto dim mirror and the salesman insisted that he had no control over reducing any further. Even the sales manager came to see me and said he would not go any further below that price.
===========
KOONS OF MANASSAS PRICE QUOTE
VEHICLE
2005 Honda Pilot EX AWD 4dr SUV w/Leather (3.5L 6cyl 5A) Stock#
VEHICLE BASE PRICE
Invoice: $28,894.12 Suggested Retail: $32,120.00
Your Price: $28,394.12
OPTIONS/ACCESSORIES PRICING
Options and Accessories: Appearance Package: $618
(Wheel locks, mud guards, pinstripes, door and fender trim)
Receive free service coupons with each purchase (a $500 value)
Your Price: FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OTHER CHARGES/REBATES
Destination Charge: $515.00
Advertising Charge: $0.00
Rebates: $0.00
TOTAL VEHICLE PRICE: $28,909.12
ADDITIONAL FEES
Additional fees must also be collected to cover registration, title and tax fees. In addition Koons has a $279.00 processing fee on all transactions to cover our administrative cost. (Please note: fees are based on registering your vehicle in Virginia with new tags. If you register the car in another state, your fees will vary.)
Virginia State Taxes - 0.03% of Purchase Price: $875.64
Prince William County Business Tax - 0.0017%: $49.62
Processing Fee: $279.00
VA DMV License Fees: $33.50
VA Inspection Fee: $15.00
Title Fee: $20.00
TOTAL TAXES AND FEES: $1,272.76
TOTAL VEHICLE PRICE: $28,909.12
TOTAL VEHICLE TRANSACTION COST: $30,181.88
===========
Here's the deal we finally worked out (I haven't agreed yet - was hoping to get some feedback from the friendly knowledgeable folks here first):
12k mi/yr
MSRP: 30, 435
Initial Cap cost: 29, 137
Cash cap reduction: 2,568.13
Customer Cash down: 3,173
Honda Assignment Fee: 595
Adjusted Cap Cost: 27, 163.82
Lease factor: 0.00149
base monthly rental: 279.65
monthly tax (9%): 25.17
Total Monthly Payment: 304.82
Security Deposit: 300
Cash due at start: 3,173 + $381.64 (TLR of $150.50 + 231.14 tax on CCR).
All I want to know is if you think this is a good deal? I was so confused by the time I left there last night. I love the car, but hate the idea of paying way more than I have to.
thanks so much!
As 02xls said in his post, i told them that Honda has a financing of 2.9% and i was told that that price will be effective from 22nd. So i will be there for financing today. Surprisingly i don't see 2.9% listed in any web site.
The sales persons were not at all pushy. They tried to sell me the coverages for rusting and other stuffs for $1790. I said i don't want those and that was it.
I will be asking their quote for extended warranty and will be comparing with 2 other quotes that i have.
I think the OTD price of pilot EX-L for $29,948.50 is better than decent in the DC metro area. I had quotes from almost 12 dealers and this dealership had the best price.
Thanks very much. I did post there as well and Car_man advised against 1) leasing at full MSRP and 2) putting much, if anything down/ He also told me to see what kind of responses I got from this board regarding what other people have paid (or spent on leases) for their Pilots so I can compare.
Thanks again for the tip and your input.
A couple of corrections...>
First of all, Honda special finance programs are never "bogus". They are for real. It does not require an 800 beacon score to qualify. Also, there are LOTS of people with over 800 beacon scores including myself (820). I see them quite often. In order to qualify for the 2.9, it does take a very good credit score. I'm not really sure but I think it's 750...don't quote me. for those with lesser scores, they will qualify for either 3.9 or 4.9 depending on their scores.
If a person has bad credit, they won't qualify for anything.
You are very badly mistaken. I Bought a Oddy over a year ago when they had the 2.9 financing and had no where near a 800 credit score. AHFC is actually pretty leniant and only requires I think a 640+ score to qualify for it's best rates. Just wanted to clear that up that most should qualify for the 2.9 If you can get approved through the online app you get the best rate.
Heck, even the 4.9 is a great rate!
http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/22/pf/autos/wednesday_holiday_car_sh- opping/index.htm
Is it true? I found a 2004 pilot from the local dealer website for $29960. Is it really possible to get it for under $24000? Does any body has similar experience?
Thanks.
My Pilot, EX-L, DVD RES, will be ready for me tomorrow. Already have a $1,000 deposit onit. Only aftermarket option I'm getting is LoJack.
RM