Honda Odyssey Future Models

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Comments

  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    bamaboy has reasoned that if you need those fold flat second row seats, you may as well sign a short term one year lease or rent a pickup truck.
  • steve290steve290 Member Posts: 25
    will the 2005 odyssey be at the NY auto show
  • player4player4 Member Posts: 362
    It should be because there is no other major Auto Show between now and September which is the month that the 2005 Odyssey goes on sale.
  • dannodanno Member Posts: 114
    It will not show at the NY autoshow. Honda's holding it back until the very end.
  • missstatefanmissstatefan Member Posts: 10
    Based on what you guy's have heard about the 2005's, would you wait to buy an 05 or purchase an 04 at a very good price (approx. $300 below invoice)? I doubt the deals will be this good for an 05.

    What little I have read, I have concerns about the VCM engine in the 05's. The engines may prove to be great; however, the 04 engines have been tested.

    Bamaboy said that the doors would be more sensitive, which helps. Are there any other significant changes in the 2005's?
  • jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    The price diff between what you can get an 04 now vs waiting for an 05 would buy you a lot of gas. It might take you quite a few years to recover some of the diff with fuel savings from VCM.
  • rosey4rosey4 Member Posts: 42
    Again, I heard yesterday that Honda is offering rebates on the 2004 Odyssey. This is the 1st time I've heard that Honda is offering a rebate on the Odyssey. I also heard that the 2005 will not have AWD.

    Will the 2005 have the rear sensor, as does the its competitors?

    Will there be any changes to the DVD entertainment package?
  • lok888lok888 Member Posts: 1,788
    That's right. Maybe you can buy 2 or 3 years of gas with the money that you save for an '04 model, let's say $4000 off MSRP. I would think most people will paying MSRP or more for the '05 model at least the first two years. Did bambaboy mention the production number for '05 model is 50K to 60K in the first production year? Toyota already made the same number of '04 Sienna during their first 6 months.
  • dannodanno Member Posts: 114
    I'm thinking it's 50 - 60K units for September to December of this year. Honda has the capacity to make 160-180K annually. It does not make sense that they would make only 50K units full model year or a third of what they currently produce.
  • lok888lok888 Member Posts: 1,788
    I hope Honda will keep up with that and keep the price down. If they can build that much now, they should build the same for new model.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    The 2005 will no doubt be a big improvement. The question is, do you want to go back to paying at or over sticker, waiting months for delivery and dealing with obnoxious Honda salespeople? If the 2004 is good enough for you, you will save thousands and actually have the salesman treat you like a valued customer.

    The biggest change will be the impact on Toyota dealers, as their top ranking for the Sienna and snotty attitude will likely dissappear. You might actually find that the Sienna could be a good compromise with a lower price, quicker delivery, and most if not all of the 2005 Ody features.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,544
    the Ody and Sienna should make for a nice compatative situation right out the gate. In '99, Honda pretty much had the imported full-size mini (how's that for an oxymoron) market to itself, since the Quest and Sienna were a size smaller. If the new Honda starts bleeding off buyers, Toyota will be aggressive in fighting to keep them.

    If nothing else, even if you really prefer one model, mentioning the other brand should get some attention.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,544
    there are supposedly some other improvements that might be waiting for. I personally hate the seats in the current model, so if the new one has nice Accord-like thrones, that's worth some money. Hopefully they go with the split rear bench too.

    Also, once the new model comes out, it is possible that the traditionally high resale value of the early vans might take a hit. Remember, there really is no apparent difference between a '99 and an '04 (assuming most buyers can't tell the the engine grew a little or the tranny picked up another gear).

    Given all that, based on the prices I have seen (2.5-3K off MSRP), the current van looks like a real good deal, especially if you are leasing.

    I actually prefer the current Ody over the new SIenna dynamically (handling, performance, etc), but really prefer the Toyota interior. So, if Honda adds some features to compete, and puts in an interior at least as good as an Accord, and keeps the driving dynamics, they will have a winner.

    Oh, they need to move the shift lever too, since everytime I drive one, I end up putting on the wipers by mistake.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    will lower Sienna prices, that's for sure.
  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    Don’t forget reliability issues of the first model year. And don’t tell me it’s a Honda and it will be reliable. I have purchased the 2004 Acura TL and it has issues. Also, remember the ’99 Odyssey and transmission problems.
  • chazzcage2chazzcage2 Member Posts: 11
    With all due respect please have yuor facts straight when talking about new models. The transmission problems in the 99 Ody affected only 4% of all sold that year and years after until they corrected it. Fact is all new model years have issues that raise the problem rate but NO model that comes out eliminates them completey. The difference between 4% and the current 1.5% does not indicate a significant problem. My last two vehicles have been new models and my 1995 chevy Caviliar has 135,000 miles on it and my 99 Ody has 93,000 and I know I just jinxed myself but both run like a charm. Yes, both had the usual minor stuff that the dealer had to correct or fix but show me any new car that does not have issues and that includes any year model and I'll show you someoen living in a dream world.
  • chazzcage2chazzcage2 Member Posts: 11
    As far as your conversation on whether 04 versus 05. I ordered the 99 Ody when it was a nw model and I had to wait 6 months for delivery. At the time I could wait so it was no big deal. I really would like somesort of hybrid but being over 6ft 3 this is an issue. Tried the Prius and sorry but I just do not like ANY Toyota as far as seating and the steering wheel. For some reason no matter what Toyota I sit in th ewheel does not adjust like a Honda or Chevy for that matter. The angle feels funky. Other than that I would be in a Hybrid Highlander in a second. The Accord has gotten so much smaller I wonder what Honda is thinking. Big problem with Accord is it is still bigger (barely) than a Civic but the Civic has a much smaller center console between the seats and the Accord has a bigger console that eats space so seating is really not much different. There goes the Accord Hybrid. Only other choice is the Ford Escape but dame stupid American companies choose NOT to put in a NAVI and go with either ONSTAR (give me a break) or other system they own. Wake up and put dam NAVI in domestic cars. HOnda is using VCM on models but really unsure of how much improvemtn highway mileage will be. Thank GOD Honda is coming out with Hybrid CRV and Pilot in 05 and 06 so I might have to wait or lease for another Honda. Question is if Pilot is Hybrid and Ody is same platform does that mean Ody Hybrid is not that far off?
  • missstatefanmissstatefan Member Posts: 10
    Guy's,

    Thanks for the input. I intend to purchase a 2004. This sounded fishy to me; however, I was told by a salesman today (one that knew that I was not buying from him) that due to necessary plant modifications for the 05's, the plant in Birmingham will be shutting down in late July or early August. Apparently, this dealership was notified that no new orders would be taken. If a dealership has ordered 04 Odysseys, the order will be filled, otherwise, no more 04's. According to the salesman, the prices will begin increasing due to stock shortages soon.
  • jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    The other senerio could be that as you get closer to the Fall more and more people will be waiting for the 05s so as the 04 stock drops, so do the number of buyers. The price remains the same as it is now.

    I smell the old sale FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) technique.

    I think most assembly lines would be looking at about 60 days to change over to a new model and then ramp production back up.
  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    Where exactly did you get the 4% transmission failure number? I highly doubt that Honda is sharing this information freely.

    What's more, if we are talking percentages, then surely you would be better off with one of the Daimler Chrysler minivans. Their huge production numbers must certainly cause their reputed transmission failure rate to actually amount to a very small percentage.

    Besides, you miss the point entirely. As you said, "Fact is all new model years have issues that raise the problem rate but NO model that comes out eliminates them completely." The point was that by avoiding that first year model you can also avoid those inevitable first-year glitches and surprises by not being their beta tester.
  • chazzcage2chazzcage2 Member Posts: 11
    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020923-3.htm

    American Honda Motor announced that approximately two percent of automatic transmissions installed on approximately 1.2 million Honda and Acura models have experienced premature wear or failure.

    For some reason I thought it was 4%. My apologies. I agree first year models have a higher incident of issues and problems but compared to the overall total of sales of a vehicle it is miniscule at best unless you have a true liability and screw up. And as far as Chrysler, you can forget it. Chrysler is getting much better but still not there yet. Hate to say it but Honda and toyota are the cream of the crop. Guess it has something do to with American ego in that they DO NOT LISTEN TO THE CONSUMER NEEDS AND WANTS. They like to force models of what they think the public should have. I hope the crafmanship of the big three come back and fast but I just don't see it. And do not say it is due to lazy Americans because that theory is shot to hell as many Honda and Toyota models are built in America and at our neighbors to the north, Canada so I don't buy that. I t all boils down to marketing 101 which is to KNOW THY CUSTOMER.
  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    chazzcage2, no need to get aggressive. The question was, 04 vs 05. My reply was that the 04 will be more reliable than 05, and I don’t think you can argue that point. Regardless of who the manufacturer is, new models have bugs and design issues that are fixed after they are identified by the “early adapters” who had the privilege of paying premium for their cars. I was one of those early adapters when I purchased the 04 TL in December. I regret that decision because the car has bugs that where fixed 6 months after model release. After that experience, I leased the 04 Odyssey because I knew it would be bullet proof after Honda had 5 years to fix its problems. I am not bashing Honda, I currently own three Honda products, but the 2% percent that you are quoting is for all Honda products, most of which are 4 cylinder cars. The transmission mostly failed on Odysseys, V6 Accords and TL type S. If you take only those models into equation, the percentage will be much higher. Have you seen this thread:
    Honda Odyssey Transmission Problems?

    As far as Chrysler goes, they have different issues. I had an opportunity to speak with one of the Chrysler product managers. She told that they can’t make products as reliable as Honda and Toyota because their factories are too old. Besides, she told me, it is not their market niche. Every manufacturer has its own niche. Honda and Toyota is reliability, Ford and Chevy buy American, BMW is the sporty ride, MB is prestige and Chrysler is all about style.
  • kimo9kimo9 Member Posts: 71
    Having been immersed in the Japanese culture for many years in addition to actually living there, I think I can address this issue to some extent.

    The Japanese culture is generally a group-oriented society where individualism is frowned upon. All the individuals are working as a team toward one goal which, if successful, will show positively on the company.....in our context it is to make the best vehicle in the world. Defeat is not an option and would show poorly on the group. In the event of defeat it gives them even more incentive to do better the next time around. Being "part of the group" is even important to the presidents/CEOs of the company.......they'll often make only 3-5 times what the average worker in the company makes, although I'm not sure this is true with Honda and Toyota's top exec..

    If you look to the time when Japanese imports first started coming to America, you'll see that most American vehicles weren't noted for their quality and reliability. Only when there was competition from the Japanese did changes begin. Yet, even today who are the top two companies? Honda and Toyota.....in almost every category.

    The point is that in a general sense the American car comapany's first priority is profit. The Japanese car company's priority is quality..........it is a culture thing in my opinion.
  • player4player4 Member Posts: 362
    Some of the new accessories for 2005 include underbody spoiler kits, interior cargo board, table leg kit, and all season floor mats to name a few.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    And that's why most of us would rather buy a vehicle that has 100% Japanese parts and assembly. This means upper luxury products like the Lexus LS, LX, and GX or the Acura RL, etc.
  • steve290steve290 Member Posts: 25
    Apparently the 05 Odyssey is not at the NY Auto Show. What does this mean? I was willing to wait until the fall if new Ody was coming out then, but cannot wait any longer. I can buy new top of the line Quest today at close to sticker compared to a top of the line Sienna for close to $8,000 more. Will Ody be that much better than current offerings and when will it be out?
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    Personally, I think the new Ody will NOT beat the new Sienna in any way.
    However, I think it will sure beat the Quest anyday.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    I just saw pics of the new Acura Flagship vehicle--the RL.
    I was disappointed with both the exterior and interior looks.
    If this is any indication of where Honda is going, which seems to me like more sporty and less luxury, I will probably be disappointed with the new Odyssey as well.
  • player4player4 Member Posts: 362
    This is called the Honda Elysion, it is going to be out this fall in Japan, could this also be the 2005 US Honda Odyssey?

    image

    image

    image
  • dannodanno Member Posts: 114
    The pictures do not show. Can you post a link?
  • player4player4 Member Posts: 362
    Its too late now cuz i cant edit it, but ill post another post with the links.
  • kimo9kimo9 Member Posts: 71
    This may be old news.......but note 4/7/04 update.

    http://www.hondapreview.com/odyssey/
  • player4player4 Member Posts: 362
    Old news my man but good job in finding it though!! Nice try.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    It does look awfully similar to the ASM concept, which it probably is. I have a good feeling that this is our next Odyssey.
  • player4player4 Member Posts: 362
    I dont know because bamaboy said that OUR next Honda Odyssey would look very similar to this picture http://www.prelude-fan.de/pics/odyssey-2gen.gif so i do not what to believe.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    But isn't that picture just the current Odyssey with a different front?
  • dannodanno Member Posts: 114
    The Elysion is not the new 2005 Odyssey. The dimensions are wrong unless Honda will be downsizing for the new model.
              Elysion 2004 Ody
    Length 190" 201"
    Width 72" 75.6"
    Height 70" 69.7"

    I think some of the styling cues will be similar -dash, projector headlights, but this is not the 2005 Ody.
  • player4player4 Member Posts: 362
    No, it is an all-new Odyssey. See the 2005 Honda Odyssey is going to be ALL-NEW NOT FACELIFTED.

    Read This from www.HondaPreview.com

    With competitors trying to keep up with the Odyssey by redesigning their vehicles, you can be sure that the 2005 model will send them back to their drawing boards once again.
  • dannodanno Member Posts: 114
    I'm not disagreeing the 2005 Ody will be all new. But it's not the Elysion. The Elysion is way too small.
  • blackexv6blackexv6 Member Posts: 503
    Does anyone know if the '05 Odyssey will have the 2nd row stow away seats? I think the Chrysler T&C is the only van offering this arrangement. I will not consider buying an American car, but this is a nice feature. Also, hopefully the ride will be softer and quieter this year.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    The post on transmission failures is incorrect. The problem was not indentified in the original 99 models. It occurred on 2000 and 2001 models. The transmission was not changed for these years. Defects in the manufacturing process accounted for the problem. Honda can look at your VIN number and determine if you have one of the suspect transmission made during that period.

    Honda has also received high praise for extending warranties and covering repairs. However if you talk to anyone who experienced the first failures you'll find that Honda's reaction was not friendly or concerned at all. Only after the issue started to get some PR did they come around. They also made life very difficult for those trying to get reimbursed for new transmissions paid for out of pocket.
  • lena132lena132 Member Posts: 56
    You may regret having the stow 'n go. I have read on the Siennaclub.org forum that they are one of the most uncomfortable seats ever. Because it folds flat, the cushions are really thin and you'll feel like you're sitting on a rock. People have said that they could almost feel the underside of the seat.

    You're favoring mobility but sacrafising comfort.
  • dannodanno Member Posts: 114
    No second row "stow and go" for the 2005 Ody.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    correct. bamaboy has reasoned that if you need Stow N Go seating you may as well lease a truck, rent a truck or join FlexCar.
  • carguy1234carguy1234 Member Posts: 233
    I checked them out at our local auto show, and the seats are incredibly uncomfortable. They will have to fix that since the word should spread pretty fast.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Funny how people laughed at Chrysler for not offering a fold-into-the floor 3rd row. Chrysler owners used a similar excuse. I have sat on the cloth 2nd and 3rd row seats of a 2005 Grand Caravan SXT and leather seats in a 2005 Chrysler Town & Country Touring and thought the seats were very comfortable. They are more firm than the seats in the 2002 Grand Caravan Sport just as the seats in the 2001 Odyssey EX are more firm than the 2002 GC Sport. I prefer a firmer seat.
         Now that Chrysler has THE most flexible seating, the shoe is on the other foot.
         Although my 1970 Dodge van was the most unreliable vehicle I have owned, I am impressed with the ride and comfort of one son's 2002 Grand Caravan Sport. However, another son's 2001 Odyssey EX does offer more cargo space with the Magic Seat. Both minivans have been reliable so far.
  • laundryguylaundryguy Member Posts: 89
    I've seen some negative posts on this, but frankly I think it is the technology to go with in weighing the American love with big vans/trucks/SUV's that have lots of on demand horsepower. It just seems so right to have an engine adapt its fuel usage to reflect the loading taking place, and with all the computers that are out there, it should be easily attainable. Most vans/cars use only a fraction of the engines horsepower capability to run down a highway in most applications.

    One real risk is a harsher ride/noise. 3 bangers and 4 bangers just have seemed to give more vibration because of the logistics of balancing the load. Maybe they have this figured out though.

    Like several posts - it will be interesting to see what gas mileage they hit on the highway. I think 30 - 31 mpg will be the new standard having seen 27 - 28 mpg out of 2004 Odyssey owners.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    with Stow N Go, the second row seats aren't very comfortable, even in leather. I guess that's a side effect of fold away seats.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    I sat in the new Stow and Go second row seats although only in a dealership and not for an extended time. Not as comfortable as the ones they replace, but certainly adequate.

    Remember, the vast majority of second and third row passengers are kids who could care less about seat comfort as long as their head phones and/or DVD system is working.

    Stow and Go will become the industry standard as the trade off in flexibility versus comfort will be worth it to the large majority of buyers. The question now is who will be the next manufacturer to offer Stow and Go and how will they improve seat comfort? Most of the vans have been recently redesigned and GM's new vans won't have any dissapearing seats. It will cost major $$ to retrofit Stow and Go, but I can't see the competition allowing DC to have this large an advantage for a long time.
  • dannodanno Member Posts: 114
    The base GC with Stow n' Go will retail for at least as much as an Ody EX-L. Sorry the value equation does not balance in favour of the GC. The middle dissappearing seats are gimmic IMHO. The 3rd row dissappearing was a home run when introduced. The 2nd row dissappearing is not. I have had an extended Venture for 7 years now and I have had to remove the seats twice. The rears have come out 4 - 5 times a year.
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