Honda Odyssey Future Models

ceric

danno, yes, there have been no new info coming up. Should we all shut up and wait. Don't think so. I agree that we should not be carried away talking about Accord/Camry.

danno

I definitely don't want people to shut up. I guess I'm just as frustrated as everyone else waiting for information to be released.

epond

I hope the Ody interior has that dull-silverish chrome look that the Mazda MPV ES has. Looks sharp. I think the Sienna fake wood trim in the XLE is, well, too fake looking.

epond

dako_tian

Yea, man, I could sure use just one more link to that hollywoodextra ASM picture! ;-)

jchan2

we're rehashing everything. Just about two months until launch though. (An August launch maybe?)

jchan2

we're rehashing everything. Just about two months until launch though. (An August launch maybe?)

dako_tian

A rehash of the rehash statement? ;-)

jchan2

yes.

jim1462

Any of you guys have any idea regarding the difference btw a plain EX-L and a EX-L Touring? Will the Touring be a luxury version like the Acura MDX or a sport/performance model. I noticed that Black leather is only available in the Touring Model.

danno

SWAG - front /rear parking sensors, trim package, sunroof, special wheels/tire package and maybe model specific paint colors

indy93

Is VCM standard or optional on the 05 Ody? Thanks

ac00lra

My bet is VCM will be standard. Honda normally makes the engine the same across trim levels. Just like all current Odyssey have the same engine be it EX or LX. I would expect that from Honda. If it's Toyota, however, you'll see VCM package#29 or VCM package#45 with #37 on LE or XLE or XXXL Limited 4WD 2-Wheel-Brake and No-Wheel-Stop Edition.

:-)

I guess we're just burning time waiting for July 4th (the official press release, righ?)...

chazzcage2

Again I know we are all waiting until July 4th for official release notes on the Ody. I have a '99 Ody with 95,000 miles and not a lick of trouble. I know I probably just jinxed myself but oh well. I was reading the local paper in Annapolis, MD and over the last 5 months this is the third article I have seen that in talking about Hybrids mentioned other vehicles coming out that are Hybrids. Low and behold yesterdays paper mentions again that the Honda Ody will be a Hybrid. God am i wishful thinking as Honda is soooo super secret with this Ody. I hope they are not confusing VCM with IMA. Although I think we all can agree that it has been mentioned that Honda is working on a Hybrid Pilot for 2005 or 06 so could the Ody be first since they are made form the same frame base? Again just wishful thinking. It's early in the morning and I need to get to work but if anyone really wants me to quote the article I can when I get home.

stickguy

Gee, I hope you don't have to get all that worthless touring crap to get the moonroof.

dako_tian

Yep, in that case, it might be cheaper to buy a DVD player, have the screen mounted flat over your head, and just run a movie of the night/day sky, eh? ;-)

andrewtran71

You always get what you paid for, unless you paid MSRP or above:-)
I think the new Ody will cost about the same as the Sienna if we compare feature for feature.
I even think the street price of the Sienna may be cheaper when the new Ody first debut. I can already get a Sienna Limited @ $4K off MSRP. When the new Ody debuts and take away some of the market shares, I might be able to get $5K off MSRP, which will probably be cheaper than the Ody Touring w/NAV+DVD, which you might get $1K off MSRP initially.

jchan2

just the sunroof on the EX-L edition? I don't want all that other Touring junk, unless the price difference is little.

stickguy

My point exactly.

jchan2

to me for the touring package means anything between $1000-$1750. Anything more, and I'll just sacrifice the sunroof and save a few bucks.

rorr

Regarding current pricing on the Sienna: Is it any wonder that the current deals available on the Sienna may be a result in the relative slashes in prices on the current Odyssey? Afterall, if the two vehicles are so closely rated by the various testers (Sienna top choice here at Edmunds; Ody top choice by C&D), and there are such good deals available on current Odys, wouldn't the deals on the Siennas by necessity get a little better?

That being said, when the current Odys are gone, and the 05's are commanding MSRP (and maybe a bit more initially), I wonder if the deals on the Siennas will still be there?

danno

It depends on how good the Ody turns out to be. If it's a homerun..expect continuing discounts on the Sienna. More competition means better deals. Example: Ford with their Freestar and $5,000 rebates. I am a Fleet manager in Canada and have seen the 2005 Chev Uplander discount off MSRP for fleet. The discount is $6,000Cdn...wow! And it's not even hit the showroom yet! The Sienna Fleet discount is $1,000Cdn as a comparison.

stickguy

Once Honda is up to full production speed, they should be able to produce 350,000+ units (Ody and Sienna combined). Thats a lot of vans, and should help avoid the feeding frenzy when the the '99 came out (with only 75K or so the first year, and without as strong compitition).

Should be fun, and really good for people looking for deals on the Quest or Chryslers.

My guess? MSRP on the Honda through year end, Sienna prices about what they are today, and once the initial rush is over (next winter?) it's likely to be a free for all.

Hopefully Honda sticks with their traditional aggressive pricing (good value for the dollar), so even paying MSRP won't be a "bad" deal.

danno

Total van market is 1,000,000 annually. Honda and Toyota will own almost 40% with 2 models which they traditionally get close to MSRP. This leaves the rest for Kia, Nissan, Mazda, GM, Ford, DC - there will be some serious price competition in 2005 which just might include Honda and Toyota.

rorr

Well consider that right now a Sienna XLE priced at $31k is having to go up against an Ody EX-L at around $26k....a $5k delta which explains the decent(?) deals you can swing on a Sienna.

But when the 05's hit, they will demand (and get IMO) MSRP for at least the first several months. There are LOTS of Ody owners who will simply not look at anything but another Ody and they'll keep the price up there for a while. So then you'll have Sienna XLE's up against Ody EX-L's back in the $29-31k range. Suddenly the buyer looking for a bit of a bargain shopping a new Sienna against an old Ody won't see Toyota dealers quite as willing to bargain (IMO), especially if the magazines/comparison tests still have the two vans neck and neck (which I expect will be the case).

As far as the new Ody being a "homerun", I wouldn't expect a repeat of '99. The competition at that time was woefully inadequate; I don't think anyone could truthfully say the same holds true today. Looking at the list of improvements for the '05 Ody reads like a laundry list of current Sienna features.

I'm hoping I'm way, way off base since I'm a Toyota fan, looking for a new minivan but won't be in a position to buy until the end of the year. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic. I certainly HOPE the new Ody can drive the price of admission for the Sienna down. To that end, I hope the new Ody is a raging success and everyone continues to work themselves into a lather waiting for it to hit the showrooms.

cardude

I don't think the new Ody will sell for MSRP even for one day.
In terms of features and huge discounts of the Sienna, the new Ody will not blow anybody away. Sure, some people will just buy the Ody and some will just buy the Sienna or T&C, etc. But most people are pretty smart and they will buy whichever gives them the best deal for the features they want.
I think Honda will give people $1-2K discounts depending on the region. If people can get $4K off MSRP on the Sienna, why would they buy the Ody and get just $1K off MSRP?

danno

Interesting prediction. 1st such prediction that I've seen. You make some good points.
Why should anyone pay more for features that equal what the market already has? The only innovation that could command a premium is the VCM, but that perceived and real benefit are still to be determined.

stickguy

Honda's traditionally have a smaller than nromal mark-up between invoice and MSRP, so there isn't as much room for big discounts, unless they are subsidizing them (aka rebates) which isn't going to happen.

If the Ody is as nice as I expcet, and I can get 1-1.5K off by November, my wife will be driving one for Xmas.

casper7777

I know the available color combos for the 05 odyssey have been mentioned a few times on this board, but the following link has the most complete list that I've seen.

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=241362

It's by an anonymous source but vtec.net gives it a surprising credibility rating of 10.

rorr

"I don't think the new Ody will sell for MSRP even for one day."

Really.

I suggest that we track Edmunds TMV (which reflects actually selling prices) rather than anecdotal evidence for the first few weeks (months?) after the new Odyssey is released to check your prognostication. Personally, I've enough "faith" in the dealers that deals will be few and far between immediately after introduction. Basic law of supply and demand. Initially, supply WILL be limited and just from tracking the amount of activity in this thread, demand will be substantial.

jchan2

MSRP deals at launch and pricing going down after a few months.

indy93

Except for Zealots... the new Ody and Sienna will match up very closely in specs. so to the general public who buys the vast majority of vehicles the two will be very similar. Ody discouts after the first 60 days. As supplies build. 05 Ody will be no big deal nor will the Sienna. People will shop and compare price and FEATURES! Only danger is VCM what if it turns out like current Ody's trans or GM's 4-6-8 dabacle.

cardude

You think people will just say, "Oh, it's a Honda. It's the best. I'll buy for whatever price you want. Screw the Sienna's $4K off MSRP deal!"?

Especially with the recent public awareness of a few transmission problems, which was blown up way out of proportion that got the public all concerned with Honda in general, you think people are still saying "I will buy Honda no matter what price" ?

You don't think people will say, "Gee, I like Honda a lot, but if I can get $3-4K off MSRP on an excellent Sienna, I will have to seriously consider the Sienna" ?

Sure, there may be a few who will buy nothing but Honda, but they are few. I'm talking about the majority, and the majoriy will not pay MSRP for even one day.

stickguy

the "few" will keep the price inflated for a while. Chrysler rebates and the hunger of Toyota dealers will be the best deterrant.

Actually, there are even more choices now than in '98, due to the proliferation of SUVs, cross-overs, etc., that have taken market share from minivans in general.

cardude

There are still a "few" who continue to pay MSRP for the Sienna today.
There are even a few who are paying MSRP for the '04 Odyssey today.
There will be a "few" who will pay MSRP for the Odyssey 3 years from now.
They will not keep the price inflated for the rest of us, and they will not prevent the rest of us from paying under MSRP anytime anywhere.

stickguy

they will keep the price inflated if they are buying the entire supply. It took quite a while for the Ody, and the '04 Sienna, to actually build up stock on the ground (except for some cases where the in-stock units had ADM stickers or lots of dealer crap added).

Hopefully they ramp up the factory at the start and keep the pipeline full, but I still bet MSRP will be the norm until at least year end, but as always, YMMV.

rorr

When was the last time this happened with Honda on a highly anticipated model? Pilot? Nope. S2000? Nope. 2nd gen Ody? Nope. Man, I remember when I bought my 1st CRX back in '84: there were 3-4 month waiting lists way back then. You think the dealers were willing to make swinging deals on them when the demand was that high? Honda ALWAYS slowly ramps up production on new models; it's the best way they've got to ensure quality control on a new model.

And yes, there are a SUBSTANTIAL number of people that are 100% loyal to Honda and simply will NOT consider anything else. Many of these have 3, 4, 5 years on their current Ody and have been holding off their purchase waiting patiently for the '05 models.

The same thing happened with the new Sienna and the old Sienna wasn't NEARLY as popular as the old Ody. If the fan base for the old Sienna was high enough to soak up the initial supply of new vans, why do you think the fan base for the old Ody will be any different?

Just look at the message traffic in here. You guys have 2-1/2 times the posts concerning the new Ody (a minivan) as there are posts concerning the first all new Mustang (an American icon) in 25 years. If you think the initial demand won't outstrip supply, you're deluding yourself.

player4

There IS an Acura MPV/Minivan coming to the US in 2006.

                              2006

Acura MPV/minivan US Introduction(?)

I cannot say the source but, it is true!

Unbelieveable!!!!

stickguy

Well, if someone posts it on the internet, then darn it, it must be true!

Double psst: Acura already has a thinly desguised minivan. They call it the MDX.

spartanmann

There will be enough foolish and impatient Honda diehards who will pay sticker plus to get the 05. This will last less than a year, unlike the 99 model that had much less competition.

One thing to consider is that if gas prices stay high, many SUV buyers will look again at minivans. SUV owners coming off lease may decide that the better mileage, lower insurance and lower maintenance costs overcome the "lack of cool factor". This could affect pricing on the top rated vans.

rcf8000

I'd say the MDX is heavily disguised if it's a minivan. The interior volume is a LOT less than a minivan's. There is a need in the marketplace for an upscale minivan. All minivans aren't owned by financially struggling families. I have an '04 Sienna, and while it has many terrific features, it lacks many luxury features that I'd like to have.

cardude

I have friends who are Honda salesman, and they think you can get $1K off MSRP right off the bat the first day the Ody comes out.
Like I said, it depends on the region.
I remember back in 1999 when a friend of mine ordered his hot new Ody for $1K off MSRP. He had to wait a few months due to short supply, but he still got his $1K off MSRP the first day the Ody was released.
My local dealer is giving $3K off MSRP on the Sienna Limited even though they don't even have any on the lot. It's still short on supply, but that doesn't stop them from discounting $3K.

So you can pay MSRP or even higher if that makes you feel any better.
I'll pay under MSRP.

lok888

Let's bring the Honda Elysion from JDM, debadge it, do some upgrades, and add few thousand dollars premium for an Acura minivan.

rorr

I guess it all depends on how you look at it.

My position is that if you want something out of dealer stock, be prepared to pay a premium. I can't think of any vehicles (outside of an exotic) you COULDN'T get at under MSRP......if you were willing to 'order' far enough out.

I'm curious if anyone currently has a contract on an '05 Odyssey and what the deal was. Have you talked to your salesmen friends to see if they would actually take a deposit on a new Odyssey at MSRP minus $1k?

danno

In that case should Edmunds start a "Acura Van Owner Wannabe's: Future Models" thread?

stickguy

I really was referring to the fact that the MDX is built on the same general platform as the Ody, just shorter with normal doors. And yes, the rear suspension/driveline etc. eats into cargo room (height wise).

Otherwise, it is a boxy truck-let with 3 rows of seats.

I agree with the JDM idea. Kinda what you would get if you took the Mazda MPV, upgraded the drivetrain and interior, and called it a luxury/sport vehicle.

cardude

I usually don't like to talk business with them since they don't even live in the same state. Thus, when we talk it's always about personal stuff and then if it ever came across, we might talk briefly about the Ody and sales.
But from my point of view, I would not even buy the Ody if all I can get is $1K off MSRP when I can get $4K off on the Sienna Limited.
Sure the Sienna may be marked up more than the Ody, but not by $3K.

But alright, I will agree with you that it will cost MORE in the beginning than after 1 year when supplies build up. I can't agrue with that one bit.

cardude

If they could make the MDX 77" wide by 202 inches long that could give us 41/40/40" leg room for the 3 rows and 8 passengers, it would be a cool full size SUV instead of a mid-size 188" long SUV.
Shoot, I'd would go for it, wouldn't you?

aabb

Profit margins on high end models are inflated, hence the 4K off MSRP on XLE limited. The best deal I could get on the Sienna LE today is 1.5K off MSRP.

05 Odyssey LX @1000 off MSRP would be a steal in August, not likely for at least a year IMHO.
05 Odyssey EX-L Touring $2000 off MSRP is possible by the end of the year.

I hope 05 Odyssey forces Toyota to put twin power sliding doors in the Sienna LE. Then Honda is forced to offer EX at comparable pricing.
I am sure honda wants to be competetive in each model level, that's how they gain and build on market share.

vfr400

And let's not forget the Lexus RX330, just a Sienna minivan according to this reasoning.

jchan2

player4, any more info? Like what is it based on? Odyssey? Elysion? JDM Odyssey?