Honda Odyssey Future Models

hansienna

But the key wording was "will be very similar to the current Odyssey maybe a little sleeker."
     If it is very similar to the current Odyssey, there is no way it would look like a Quest. Honda engineers are too smart to radically change a winning design (unlike Ford when the Oval Taurus appeared).

jchan2

I'm confused here. The message says it'll be like a Quest, just not as daring, yet it also says it'll be a lot like the current Odyssey. Which one is correct? I like both, but knowing which one to expect in about 8 months would be great.

dako_tian

Where's the fun in knowing ahead of time? Honda treats anticipated model change releases just like the joy/agony/excitement of childhood Christmas: you know there is a gift under the tree for you, you can shake it for clues (if no one is watching!), and you might overhear portions of an in-the-know conversation about it; but you still can't open your gift until Christmas morning!

If they shared their secrets with us, then they just wouldn't be secrets anymore, now would they?!? ;-)

dtownfb

Guys, I'm just guessing here on the styling of the Odyssey. But judging from the Accord re-design, I suspect it will have more curves and a more aggresive stance then the current Odyssey. But I don't think they will go as far as the Quest because they do have a very loyal following they have to think of. Whereas the Quest was a new vehicle and they had to differentiate themselves from the rest of the crowd. As a owner of a 2004 Quest, I really like the styling (now only if my wife would let me drive it).

Also it seems that when Honda does a re-design, you can normally tell the difference from the new model and the old model. My guess is you willnot have to wait 8 months. I think (hope) they will release the 2005 Odyssey by July at the latest. Toyota is catching up in sales and Chrysler is releasing the 2005 T&C in a couple of months.

dako_tian

what gets manufactured where. The Odyssey will apparently only come out of Alabama. That is supposed to cause the redesign to wait until fall. But then, only some at Honda know for sure! ;-)

aspesisteve

now that toyota out did the Odyssey, I'd think at a minimum, here's what Honda needs to add:

power sliding passenger windows
AWD option
split rear seat 60/40
auto head lights
outside temp. gauge
loose the radio antena for something less cheesy
improve the audio speakers

player4

This is what i expect to see on the 2005 Honda Odyssey:

Laser Cruise Control
Bluetooth
Sunroof
Power Folding 3rd Row Seat
Power Hatch
17" Aluminum Alloy Wheels
Wood Trim
Outside Temperature Monitor
Hight-Intensity Discharge (HID) Headlights
Curtain Side Airbags
Tri-Zone Climate Control
60/40 Split 3rd Row Seat
Fog Lights
A 240+ hp V-6 Engine
AWD Option
ABS
EBD
TRAC
VSC

hansienna

Sienna still has LESS power than the Odyssey (but also has a smaller engine).
    How many people want AWD or 8 passenger seating? How many people want roll down windows in sliding doors? How many people want concert hall quality sound when the vehicle is parked?
    Agree that 60/40 split 3rd row seating would be nice for most people. Some of the other items would be nice but Honda is smart to limit the options and keep the price low on the Odyssey.

user777

agreed for the most part - specially on the 8 seats and the AWD for options.

i'd have to say of player4 and aspesisteve's lists (minus the things it already has like TRAC and ABS and EBD), i'd hope to the LX trim they'd only add:
  an outside air temp monitor and compass
  curtain side airbags
  some additional fuel efficiency
  perhaps some additional soundproofing
  quieter tires

andrewtran71

Just saw an older Ody with four regular doors and no sliding doors.
I was thinking, the Ody here in the US will look like the Ody in Japan and Europe, whatever it ends up looking like.
To me, all this talk about features and prices will be pointless if the new Ody looks exactly like that ASM concept because I think it is way too ugly to park in my garage:-)

It will be interesting if Toyota would improve the looks on the Sienna for 2005, like chrome grill, better dash and woodtrim, etc. I doubt it, but just a thought.

Personally, I wouldn't want all those features on the Sienna to keep costs down. The only things I really need are all the airbags and the NAV:-)

Laser cruise?
Parking assist?
HID?
Moonroof?
10 Speakers?
etc.

If Honda adds all these features, it will end up costing like the Sienna.

But again, the key thing is looks. If it looks better than the Sienna on the exterior and interior, even at the same price, it will win my money.

aspesisteve

I think the critics have spoken that the Odyssey has been leapfrogged with features by the Sienna.

When you see Odyssey adding those same features it will further confirm the point.

The power plant in the Sienna, with 10 less horse power is no big deal - I'd gladly give up 10 ponys (4% less power) for 2 additional mpg (10% increase)

andrewtran71

To me in terms of features vs street price, the new Ody and Sienna will be even.
I don't think you will be able to say one is clearly better than the other in terms of features.
So, the only thing I'm waiting to see is the appearance of the new Ody vs. the Sienna.
If the new Ody looks like the new Japanese Ody, but with longer body and dual sliding doors, with the same interior as the pics, then it's no contest; the new Ody will be the clear choice.

But if the new Ody looks like the ASM Concept, then the new Sienna will be the clear choice.

To me, the Quest will still be the ugliest.
But that ASM Concept Ody is the second ugliest, even if it has an 8 inch NAV.

kimo9

I remember last fall when I started looking at the minivan choices out there......I did all the research one could do. I downloaded all the e-brochures, compared specs and features, went on various boards to get user comments/opinions of the various vehicles I was looking at (Sienna/Quest/Odyssey). After all that....I went for the test drives. Although all three were good in their own right, I preferred the way the Odyssey drove - more car like -- than the others. Even if I could've gotten a better deal on a comparable Sienna, for example, I still would've gone with the Odyssey. My point is that in the reseaching stage all 3 vehicles seemed great and it was difficult to decide. But once I drove them all.........it wasn't difficult at all.

For me, if the 2005 Odyssey drove the best and had at least comparable features to the others.....it'd be the one I bought.

andrewtran71

In other words, you don't think a minivan can look that good or bad to begin with. So appearances are insignificant to you.
I would say it's wise to be that way.

But to me, since I don't think they differ all that much in terms of features, price, or driving experience, the looks is the most important factor of them all.

I guess you can say this minivan handles a little better, this van stops better, and this minivan drive more car-like, etc. There are differences.
But I think they are more alike than they differ.

dako_tian

Agree completely. The Odyssey drive "feel" is carlike if the cars you are talking about are Hondas. The Sienna, likewise, provide the particularly-Toyota version of carlike. The difference is road feel and a perception of handling control for Hondas; rather than the softer, more "luxury" feel of being more isolated from the road in the Toyotas. Folks go the direction that they are used to and prefer.

As far as looks go, I have to say that my wife and I still sit up and take notice whenever we see a white Odyssey EX cruising the road. They are simply stunning in a field of nondescript (and now tending toward outright grotesque -- the Sienna is just this side of that extreme, IMHO).

user777

maybe it's just me, but have you noticed how the new Toyota looks a bit more like the ODY...more square in the back than before?

but i don't find the Sienna's front-end, nor the side view particularly pleasing...no comparison to the lines of the ODY.

do you think the wheel / fender contour of the Toyota look slightly mis-matched w.r.t. size? i think so, and overall not in keeping with the more attractive ODY-like back end

so i am admitedly one of those who would hope the new ODY wouldn't look that much different than the current model...

i think it is more asthetically pleasing than the other mini-vans out there.

others will say - the ODY design looks old and needs an update. hopefully it won't be the ASM look though. it looks mean and sort of like a cube.

funny how different people perceive things differently. must drive car designers nuts.

kimo9

Andrewtran71: No, I had my preferences as far as looks, but I wasn't going to let that alone decide which way I'd go. The test drive is what did it. If the Sienna, for example, drove better, I'd have probably bought that model. But I didn't like the softer, van-like drive.

User777: "so i am admitedly one of those who would hope the new ODY wouldn't look that much different than the current model.."

I'd also agree......the ODY does stand out from the crowd even 5 years later. But so does the Quest, yet in a more negative way -- seems like something the Spirit Rover would run into on Mars :-)

Honda should make "upgrades" in both the appearance and amenities department, but not so many that people don't know it's a Honda. "Hey look, that must be the new Odyssey" is what people should say even before they get a good look at it.

jchan2

It all boils down to personal preference and what you prefer and what you like.

robr2

"It all boils down to personal preference and what you prefer and what you like."

That's it. I like the shape of my Ody just fine. But the Quest is really good looking IMHO.

dako_tian

user777: I couldn't have written down my impressions of the new Toyota design as accurately and clearly as you have done for me, point by point! Thanks and "right on!" (he said, showing his age...)

kimo9: You've hit on what Honda has nailed many times before (but not always; witness the Element! Yuck!!!): a design that creates a new "classic" and holds up well through years and waves of changes in the competition.

andrewtran71

Of course.
I prefer the "luxury" feel of the Sienna and the way most Toyota feels on the road, but I prefer the looks of the Odyssey, so I bought the Odyssey.

Back before the new Sienna was released, I was sure I would buy the Sienna. But then I saw the official pictures and that turned me off. By far, the Ody is the best looking minivan.
I would be so upset if the new Ody looks like that ASM Conept!

rctennis3811

To me, the ASM is pinpointing Honda to a more sportier direction. That grinning face makes me feel like it wants to race, but then the sides tell me NO WAIT, I'M A MINIVAN. I'm still betting that the ASM is our next Odyssey, aka LaGreat.

player4

Anybody lives near or around the alabama plant? If i was living near or close to it i would go around it and take a camera with me if fortunaly the 2005 Honda Odyssey just happens to be parked in a near parking lot, but if anybody lives near the plant it would be very nice if you could go around the plant and see if a 05 ody shows up. I live 5 mins away from the Ford plant where they make the Excursion and the F-250, 350, 450 and so on. I hear that theres gonna be a new 2005 F-Super Duty so i have to go look around for that. But if anyone could go aroungd the ODY plant and look for the 05 ODY that would be very cool from that person.!!

hansienna

Honda Odyssey minivan has been in 2nd place for some time with only Dodge selling more minivans.
    The former 2nd best selling Ford Windstar is now in 4th place behind Dodge, Honda, and Chrysler.

jchan2

I have always liked Honda's stying as it's timeless, unlike some of the other designs out there that look dated after a few years.

hansienna

Do the names Aerostar, APV, TransSport, Previa, Vanagon, ring a bell?
    The Astro/Safari were not the most sleek, sexy, futuristic design but guess what? They have sold for MANY years with very little change while the above named minivans are no longer produced.
     DaimlerChrysler kept the names Caravan, Grand Caravan, and Town & Country but they are in 4th re-design (#2 was not much change from 1st and 4th is not much change from 3rd).
    The current Odyssey design is practical, very attractive to most people, and has great similarity to 1st Odyssey. The 2004 Quest and 2004 Sienna are a little too far out. The Sienna front end looks like a modified Pontiac Aztek while the Quest taillights look like they were lifted from a Chevy TrailBlazer (which in turn came from a Tonka Toy).
     The Ford minivans change names when customers become disgusted with dismal reliability and Ford hopes customers won't associate one flop with another.
     Honda: DON'T ruin a winning design with a drastic change. Remember the disastrous effect the radical "oval" look had on the Ford Taurus sales.

rinkwide

If I see another reference to the "oval Taurus" debacle I'm going to PUKE!

jchan2

was truely a big fiasco for Ford. They lost what? a few spots on the best seller list? A lot of sales? By the time they fixed the Taurus for 2000, it was dated already.

dako_tian

I sure hope you had your airsickness bag handy!

Sorry, but you have to go back (and it is still Ford!) to the Edsel to find a mistake comparable to the "oval Taurus" styling change -- and the Taurus was undoubtedly worse in terms of actual economic loss to Ford. It's natural that it has become the "next Vietnam" of the car industry.

rinkwide

The wonderful thing about the obvious is that it need not be stated.

dako_tian

Well, you need to tell the Nissan Quest team, Honda's Element team, Pontiac's Aztek team, and possibly Toyota's new-Sienna team. None of them seem to have gotten it.... ;-)

robr2

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Honda has sold more that 68K Elements in 2003. Not too shabby for such an "ugly" car huh!!??

dako_tian

And I'm certainly glad that beauty does live in those beholding eyes too. Otherwise, many of us (especially curmudgeony old guys like me) never would have found a mate! ;-)

I'll admit that Elements have their place (though I'm hoping that place is away from me!). I'm guessing that it appeals to the rebellious side of youth looking for any way to irritate their parents. Regrettably (for Pontiac) the Aztek just didn't spark that flame....

robr2

Interestingly enough, my personal observations have been that Element drivers are of a "mature" age.

dako_tian

Well, that isn't the Honda advertising focus. They certainly are reasonably priced ($16,000 to $20,000 tops). I wonder what the appeal is? Easy in and out?

The VW Beetle (original versions) had the in-your-face ugly appeal of being cheap and fun sort of transport. Are you sure they've sold 68,000 of these? Where? I've seen as many new Siennas as I've seen Elements in my part of DFW. I don't know if they've sold 68,000 new Siennas yet...?

I actually haven't paid to close of attention to what kind of person has been driving those Elements. OTOH, the Azteks make me stare to see just who would buy such thing....

robr2

Here you go:

http://www.hondacars.com/info/news/article.asp?ArticleID=20040105- 53817&Category=currenthonda

I guess the appeal is easy in easy out, nicely equipped, attractively priced, easy to clean, Honda reliability. My Dad says he should have waited to get the Element instead of the CRV.

"I've seen as many new Siennas as I've seen Elements in my part of DFW..." I've seen more Cayennes then Siennas here in Boston.

dako_tian

I learn something new every day. Thanks. Of course, I'm not sure where those almost 68,000 Elements have gone nor what it means. Quirky can sell, I see. But it's probably still the exception.

However, back to the new Odyssey design (and the topic!), I would still be really surprised if Honda did anything like the radical change that an ASM-like exterior would be for the Odyssey. We are, afterall, still talking about minivans and the demographic is not exactly "cutting-edge, radical styling."

But then, as in the Element (and the Cayenne and Murano and what is that new Infiniti?, for that matter), I am sometimes totally mystified and completely wrong about buyer appeal! Oh well, I guess that means I should stay out of advertising... ;-)

jchan2

I see more Elements in town than I do Cayennes. All of the above designs are radical, some have sold more than others, some carry huge rebates, and some just came out on the market. The fact is, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Some people think that the Quest was overdone. I don't. In fact, I think the Quest looks downright nice, with the fancy italian red leather and the strange but modern grille. I hate the Aztek though. It's too radical, yet not modern like the Quest.

hansienna

Most Honda's (except the Element) have a similar attractive grille and a similar attractive, functional dash. These items don't change drastically from one model year to another. Seems to be a winning formula to enhance brand loyalty.
    The radical Quest, Aztek, and first GM FWD minivan offerings don't appeal to the majority of buyers.

spartanmann

I don't believe there is any possibility of Honda becoming number one in sales. They are moving all Odyssey production to Alabama and even with the plant going full blast, I don't think they could make enough to overtake DC.

dako_tian

I agree, at least if we are talking about the next year or two. But then no one ever thought that either Honda or Toyota would own the top-selling car segment, which they both have done. Both companies built whatever assembly lines were necessary to accomplish that feat. They now have the knowledge and experience to make it even easier to do so with any other vehicle that makes sense to do so.

Considering that Honda was a distant 4th in minivan sales just a few short years ago, that Chrysler's monstrous lead has diminished, how the Daimler management might well have lost touch with American desires, and that Toyota is now also coming on strong with its own truly-competitive offering; I can see the passenger car scenario happening once again -- this time with minivans (and maybe later, with SUVs and/or trucks?). We might not be too many years away from a Honda/Toyota rivalry for top-selling-minivan status.

hansienna

As posted by someone earlier, Dodge sold 233,394 Caravan/Grand Caravan for #1; Honda sold 154,063 Odyssey; Chrysler sold 141,100 T&C/Voyager; the GM trio combined sales 148,881; Ford Windstar 129,235; and Toyota Sienna 105,499.
     DaimlerChrysler had THE best selling brand and THE 3rd best selling. Combined Dodge + Chrysler sold 373,494 which is MORE than double the sales of the Odyssey.
     Most of the people who got burned by bad transmissions in DC in the late 80's and early 90's have already defected to the Odyssey or Sienna.
     There are just too many current satisfied DC minivan owners who will buy DC again for any other brand to overtake Dodge alone...not counting the clones sold with Chrysler label.

jchan2

helps because the marketing department can always say all the versions are different, whereas they're really the exact same thing.

hansienna

Most Acura models are dressed up Hondas with a little more TLC at the factory and dealership. Honda can make more money with the Acura clone because most people perceive it to be more than it really is. (Same with Lexus over Toyota and Infiniti over Nissan).
     People believe the Acura MDX is much better than the Honda Pilot which puts more money into Honda's bank account.
     The Odyssey comes in only 2 trim levels with a few additions to the EX. The Odyssey is so nice that Honda does not need to build an Acura version.
     GM and DaimlerChrysler are NOT as smart. Very few people felt the Oldsmobile Silhouette was an improvement over the Chevrolet Venture. Very few people think a low end Chrysler Town and Country is better than the Dodge Grand Caravan clone or the Chrysler Sebring is better than the Dodge Stratus.

dtownfb

Hansienna: DC would love it if all those people that bought the GC and T&C were private citizens that were repeat satisfied customers. But in all honesty, a significant protion of their minivan sales are fleet/rental sales. They do not earn as much on those purchases. Plus the remaining sales to the private market were laced with rebates. As a matter of fact for the 2003 sales year, the big 3 had record rebates. So while DC does hold 1st and 3rd for 2003, they used to have #1, #2 and #4 several years ago with no rebates.

You are right though, I highly doubt honda or Toyota willever hold the #1 slot. Neither has the manufacturing capability to do it and it is not worth the investment since the minivan sales has remained flat over the past 3-4 years. The only manufacturer capable of doing this is Ford and they won't do it with the Freestar.

DC goal for the coming year has to be to sell the same number of minivans as last year without the rebates. Then they can conccentrate on regaining market share.

dako_tian

I still would not be very surprised to see Honda and Toyota edge the combined Daimler-Chryler clone minivans out of the top spot. Remember that no one believed that upstart Honda or even Toyota could unseat the domestics for the top spot in automobile sales; same manufacturing capacity arguments used. So, if they can manufacture enough cars to hold the top spot (many more involved, huh?!?), then why not minivans too?

In addition, consider the combined erosive effect on the DC lead from all the increasingly-competitive offerings available. It might be true that neither Honda nor Toyota will ever sell 375,000 minivans in a year. However, DC sold over half a million a year just a couple years back. They are already sliding. So, maybe many more manufacturers will take respectively bigger slices of the pie and Honda (or Toyota) will become top seller with less than 300,000 minivans sold in one year?

Hey, I was preaching the demise of the dot-com bubble in these very forums a full year before it happened. So, I've gotten kind of cocky about my foresight. Now, if only I could find someone willing to let me use their money to find out if I'm correct!.... ;-)

jchan2

did you predict Enron Stock would crash??? Just wondering, lol.
    I never felt the Silhouette was an improvement over the Venture, nor do I feel the Mercury Monterey Premier is an improvement over a Ford Freestar SEL, which stickers for thousands less.

dako_tian

Sadly, I never saw Enron coming... er, rather, going. As in all such superstitious (and supercilious) leaps of (il)logic, mine shouldn't be examined too closely if I've any hope of clinging to it! ;-)

I was never attracted to any of the clone pairs you mention, so never examined their relative worths. But I will happily take your word for it.

davenow

I was in the market to purchase an 04 Sienna because of the features it had over the Ody. But I've read somewhere that the new 05 Ody. will be equiped with a very $$ saving option of running with "half" the cylinders during high-end highway speeds to save on miles per gallon fuel consumption. Is this correct? If it is, I'll stick it out, what's another 5-8 more months of waiting!

robr2

Honda is planning on introducing VCM (Variable Cylinder Management) on the V6 Accord. It may make it's way to the Ody as well but they're not talking.