Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • lightnin3lightnin3 Member Posts: 153
    That sounds about right . Actually when I calculate my mileage. I do the 4.5 Litres to a gallon which is Imperial gallons. 800 km's on a 70 litre tank is about 500 miles to a 19 gallon usage . that is phenominal for an SUV. so you are correct 26 mpg U.S ..is correct.
    Typically my 4.0 L Gr, Cherokee got half that,at 450 Km's on a 90 litre tank. So to have a usable SUV that can tow and go anywhere in any weather is great especially if you want to go skiing for the weekend in Quebec or Vermont, and have to deal with bad weather on the way.Having this Jeep with good tires is a God send.
    I am just surprised in Europe there isn't any available diesel fuel additives.Here in America and Canada it is common place to have an alcohol based cetane improver and water remover , or have a upper cylinder lube/injector cleaner fuel additive to improve fuel economy.
    I thoroughly believe that Caribou's mileage problem is in the type of oil he is using , the speed at which he travelling and not using fuel additives or not blocking the rad off to keep heat in..
    -If before a trip change the oil , to Mobile 1 0 W 40 , this will reduce internal resistances just a hair better than the 5 W 40 he is using.this will add up in over the course of a trip or time of usage till the next oil change. He will save what is the cost of the oil in the first place.
    Also driving at a reasonable speed at which the engine was designed for.
    He drives at 110kmh /70 mph he is automatically losing 20% fuel loss because of the turbo is engaged to keep that speed,and RPM's are way too high to be efficient for a diesel.
    Maximum efficiency would be at around 1800 rpm's /55mph

    What I would do is get up to speed and follow a driver of a truck or car that is going less than 100 km's optimum is 94kmh
    -Set the cruise control on at 70 mph then using the cruise "controls" decel to 55 mph when you are in the slower right hand lane to cruise ,you'll notice your RPM's go way down.and also winding down the turbo .by using the cruise control to decel it'll have a tendency to stay in 5th gear and "not" disengage at 55mph.

    This method of cruising I have used ,coupled with new oil , premium ultra Vpower diesel ,or B.P . premium diesel , made a big different in mileage.
    Actually I have driven at 82 kmh and received better mileage but usually when traffic is non existant I'll do this.
    Also it is rare to find a person to plug the core heater in at night and block off the rad with a bra or use cardboard to keep the engine hot to maximize the efficiency of the cylinder chamber heat and burn capability.
    If you just leave her idle in the winter with no cover on the rad this baby will go cold on you just because of the efficiency of the rad .
    Caribou also lives in a high altitude area which also has an effect on mileage.
    It makes it that much more important to cover the rad .
    The use of diesel fuel additives help keep the water out of the fuel which drastically helps mileage,/performance and cetane levels in the fuel for consistant mileage..
    Having a cetane improver/ water remover ,as well as upper cylinder fuel additives would give that extra 10% mileage over the course of a fill up.
    But no one has any trust in them .usually ,what I have found was my best friend has a libby and the biggest mistake I have seen was he finds the cheapest fuel he can find ,and then complains about the mileage drop.
    Putting old fuel with lower cetane levels will have a drastic difference in mileage and performance.
    So goes the adage "you get what you pay for"
    Well those are my thoughts... not yours..good luck..
    I hope your listening Caribou ..
    Later B..and good driving and drive safe..
    Lightnin..
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Hi lightning3,
    I don't live in a cactus field but in a geographical environment where the most sophisticated things on wheels are fueled on the daily base, so is my modest CRD ;)

    This dealership is on my way to work:
    http://www.carugati.ch/index.php?lang=en
    The basic Pagani usually sells for more than 500,000 Euros... No need to convert into other currencies, just look :shades:
    This is the UK version: 1,000,000 Euros second hand for the Pagani Zonda F Cinque.
    http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/carno/52794
    I've never seen these guys put any additives in their fuel, perhaps they do it in the dark. Take time to look at the still pictures because when these things roar next to the Libby, you simply don't understand what's happening :sick:
  • nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    I think that if lightnin if is in my area he will be wrong.

    Central Florida all diesel are the same because it come from a pipe line and all the fuel companies dump their fuel in the same Pot.

    If you put all of those additive on the CRD your fuel cost will increase a lot.
    Price does not matter around here the less expensive is the same as the most expensive fuel.
  • lightnin3lightnin3 Member Posts: 153
    Thanks Caribou for the pictures of the super cars.
    They remind me of the Koenisegg CCX and the McClaren F1 .

    You see we are stuck with diryy fuel here in Canada , and with low cetane , the mileage and performance isn't there. not like European fuel.
    When I go on a trip I try to buy the premium or the super version of the diesel fuels to try and max out the performance. I do notice even as little as it is with my driving habits that I could squeeze a 100 km's/60km's city out of a tank even just by driving 80-90kmh a lower speed over the course of a month a 20% savings. .there has been people here that tried my methods and gained from it..just by using the premium fuel with 55 cetane comparitively to the regular at 45 cetane. thats why I use the cetane improvers and injector water removers. I'll get a bottle of the power service 2.35L for $18 Ca. that'll treat up to 950L of fuel . thats almost 9 fill ups of the Libby. Are you telling me Cetane doesn't make a difference?..

    Without the additives I have about the same mileage as you , about 18 mpg in the city If I stomp on it and race on the highway , on the regular fuel. and after a month of using that type of fuel I end up spewing a lot of smoke at each light or merge. :(

    So where I can.., and when I can I try to max out the performance ..getting a large bottle of additive is negligable really if your gaining more km's out of a tank full of fuel. why wouldn't you put the additives?..if there wasn't an adavantage.
    My overhead console mileage calculator doesn't lie and I clock my over all mileage off the odometer to see what I get out of a tank full.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Lightning3,
    There are two things that make a major difference here:
    - Winterized diesel fuel has a 'sweetish' smell; I can tell my future mileage by smelling the fuel dispenser nozzle when I put it back into it's holder. Summer fuel odor carries a peak of sulfer (rotten eggs smell)
    - Temperature plays in two steps of 10% each in my case; below 20C (~70F) and again below 0C (~32F)

    So, above 20C I get 10.5 L%KM average, between ~5C and 20C I get 11.7 and below freeze point 12.5 L%KM. These values integrate the fact (practice/delivery-overlap) that winterized fuel is served not only when it's cold. The intermediate value of 11.7 only occurs when the served fuel does not match the temperature ;)

    For the same mass of vehicle, the model you have has more horsepower and it uses less fuel to reach a targeted (ECU mapped) acceleration. The same observation applies to other makes.
  • lightnin3lightnin3 Member Posts: 153
    Helooooo..Caribou,
    I understand we all take a hit with winter fuels , yes I know it is terrible. We all have to live with it. Mileage takes a hit on winter fuel no matter what you do.
    With all the thinners and so on to make the fuel flow able has an effect of lowering mileage.
    What about water content ?.. I believe condensation build up in the underground tanks of our favorite fuel stop, has an effect as well. Having water in the fuel can cause poor mileage and performance as well..not to mention fuel line freeze up.
    That's why I traditionally buy Kleen flow or Power service 911 , and use this as a water remover. I don't trust the fuel filter to seperate the water , and I don't trust the fuel stations either.
    I wish we had a government official with a measure stick to measure each stations tanks on percentage of water content in the tanks ,and post the best quality fuels of each station as in a consumer guide.
    so you know for sure your getting pure fuel and not pumping water in your tank.
    Water can sap fuel mileage , because it absorbs heat which the chamber needs to burn the fuel and through the reduced heat you have unburnt fuel,and so reduced mileage.
    Also something else came to mind are you in a mountainous region or do you mostly drive on flat lands?. Because I can see mountain roads being a drain on mileage as well.
    talk soon
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Lightnin3,
    I live 250 miles North of where the BBC video clip was made (Siberia's recent post). Our flat roads are 'only' around lakes, the rest is mixed like in Ontario :blush:
  • coolridercoolrider Member Posts: 84
    Someone a few days ago wrote asking about the slickest (best viscosity) available for a diesel. The diesel engine available in the Grand Cherokee and Sprinter has an exclusive oil that is available at the mopar dealer and online only. It is a Mobil 1 product, 0W50 weight. It is around $12US a US quart. It takes 10 quarts for a change. It can last as much as 12,500 miles between changes depending on vehicle use That is way to much for oil. It was developed for the bluetec that MB, VW, BMW and for other european makers use. The dealer does not mention this detail in the sales process that it requires a proprietary oil that the engine maker controls the price of. It is the only 0W50 diesel oil that I have found. I found a way to order it online and now use it in my Jetta TDI and Liberty CRD as well. Has anyone in Fla found a steady supply of B5-20 Bio fuel? I am not willing to go B-100 with cars under warranty.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Coolrider,
    Do you race with your vehicles? A 15W40 oil will do no damage, even a straight SAE-HD40 could get you out of trouble if you lost all your oil. Don't you have the feeling some dealers are pushing a bit too far?
    The newer oils have less oxidation issues, but there is a limit to what we must accept :mad:
    When I change my oil, if I need more than what's in the jug I take normal oil and mix it. So the lawnmower, bike and CRD get the same treatment and it's been this way since many years.
    -- I only use the lawnmower with open throttle :shades:
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Caribou1, have you been here?:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e98_1237657552

    Is there a Jeep Liberty on the landscape preserved for posterity?
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Siberia,
    I know Hamburg quite well, and people don't really look at trucks there ;)
    You will find the higher end Chrysler products often perturbing the rest of the traffic.
  • doh4doh4 Member Posts: 7
    Greetings,
    I have a ’05 CRD with 58k. I have two issues. First driving in a straight line at a consistent speed, about 65mph the car will suddenly shift out of overdrive to a lower gear. This makes the car slow down rapidly as the engine rpm’s jump up. After a couple of seconds the car will shift back to overdrive and drive as though nothing happened.

    The second issue, which is new, seems to be a slipping transmission. The engine runs fine but when any power is applied there’s a whooshing noise, the rpms go up while the car makes a “soft jerk”.

    Has any one else experienced these problems? I’m totally disgusted with three jeep dealers in my area and the car is out of warranty.

    Dave
  • storageguystorageguy Member Posts: 30
    Dave, you do not mention iif your jeep has had the transmission recall performed. Also have you checked the fludi level for color? It should be pink Ithink. Perhaps a trans service, oil and adjustment may help. My 06 has been fine since the trans was done under the recall.
  • doh4doh4 Member Posts: 7
    I have checked the transmission fluid level and it’s at the proper level and clean looking. I had it in for the recall torque converter fix about two years ago and it’s been fine since, except for the occasional down shift previously mentioned.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    First driving in a straight line at a consistent speed, about 65mph the car will suddenly shift out of overdrive to a lower gear. This makes the car slow down rapidly as the engine rpm’s jump up. After a couple of seconds the car will shift back to overdrive and drive as though nothing happened.

    I have had this happen 3 times. All 3 times it was raining or very high humidity and a ScanGauge was connected. I stopped using the ScanGuage except for brief readings and it has not happened since - even in heavy rain. :confuse:

    Last event was over 30,000 miles ago. :surprise:
  • mike6206mike6206 Member Posts: 35
    I have a Flowmaster 50 series that will be installed on friday. Once on and I do some regular driving, I'll let you all know...stay tuned.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Hi Dave,
    In the logic sequence of the ECU, erratic down shifting can occur when:
    - the temperature sensing of the transmission oil suddenly becomes low (too cold),
    - the engine load sensing changes (accelerator pedal sensor),
    - the EGR air control valve mechanically over corrects it's mixture, reducing engine power (excessive play in the assembly),
    - one of the Lambda sensors is defective and forces the EGR to 'choke' the engine.
    The EGR should come into action when at consistent speed with a warm engine and low load condition. The overdrive comes into play when the engine coolant and transmission fluid are up to temperature.
    Last but not least is the fluid level and pressure in the converter.
  • coolridercoolrider Member Posts: 84
    Caribou1,

    No I don't race it at all unless aggressive driving in traffic counts! Yes, I believe that an exclusive oil sold only by the dealer is pushing it way to far. I will continue with the over priced oil as long as the warranty is in effect. :P
  • coolridercoolrider Member Posts: 84
    My torque converter was replaced under warranty during the recall for the reprograming of the gearbox. They said it was not engaging right.
  • jimhemijimhemi Member Posts: 223
    Wow $12 a qt? I'll sell you mine for $8 a qt. I have a bridge that connects brooklyn to manhatten. Let me know
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    You can buy the expensive stuff once and keep the empty canister with you :blush:
  • playgabeplaygabe Member Posts: 31
    With 40k miles, our crd sport has developed a rear main seal leak, which was confirmed by the dealer yesterday.
    Our Liberty is an 05 which come with 7/70,000 power train warranty less $100.00. One week to get the parts shipped.
    I have not done the F37 recall, due to the fact I tow a camping trailer over the continental divide and need all the power the 2.8L has. I get 19 mpg towing and 27-30 on the hwy. I am very satified with this vehicle.
    I am waiting for the Hybrid/diesel pickup to arrive from India in 2010. All the other Mfg. have given up on the small diesel engines.
  • mike6206mike6206 Member Posts: 35
    Ok, I have it installed on my CRD. I took it out on some mountain roads and it seems to have made alot of difference in power and interior noise. I loaded a video to YouTube and recorded what it sounds like from the rear:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vytRkzzTdCY
  • coolridercoolrider Member Posts: 84
    Jimhemi, Is this the right oil? I will buy it at 8 bucks a quart!
  • doh4doh4 Member Posts: 7
    OK, I’ve been without my CRD for about two weeks now. Fortunately my wife is doing a lot of work from home and I can steel her VWTDI when I need to, which is often.

    First stop was the transmission shop. It felt like the torque converter was giving up. They pulled the pan found no trouble with anything trans related. $190 for the tow and diagnosis.

    Off to the general auto shop who claimed they had the ability to work in the CRD. Their diagnosis, turbo and the computer needed to be flashed…something they couldn’t do after all. $135 for the tow and some tech reference service.

    Off to the dealer. I have no confidence in the dealers after my previous five trips for other issues and there lack of concern for my satisfaction. The Dealer tells me there’s no need to flash the computer but there’s something wrong with the turbo, $360 to diagnose. Four more days and they decide to replace the turbo. $2600 and five days for the part….

    If all goes well I’m sneaking up on $3k for a car with $58kmiles and I’m not sure is this has anything to do with the random down shifting at hi-way speed.

    Should I keep this car? Any body want to buy it? I don’t have the time or money to deal with this stuff on a regular basis….
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    You have variable vanes on your turbo, and the same applies to your wife's TDI.
    Ask VW to inspect your turbo; they have experience in this domain.

    The CRD engine should not be able to pull the truck at highway speed without the turbo boost because it doesn't have enough compression to fully burn the fuel it needs. You would then see black smoke as the boost pressure decreases.

    Get rid of it if you feel too many people are after your wallet!
  • storageguystorageguy Member Posts: 30
    Does the local Dodge dealer not have a Cummins diesel expert on staff? My fellow here does nothing but, and is also great with my CRD.
  • doh4doh4 Member Posts: 7
    No, I live near DC. Not to much in the way of good diesel techs that I've found. The dealers have been Surprisingly unknowledgeable.
    dave
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    It's quite unfortunate that we need to understand electronics to repair a modern diesel. Life should be simpler than that :sick:
    But never forget, what usually goes wrong is not the engine but what is forced to go with it.
  • drew9353drew9353 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2006 Liberty CRD. I have been following some of these postings. I drive 25 miles round trip to work. I have followed a posting for the ORM"off road mode" I did that to my CRD and have been averaging 19mpg in the winter and 20mpg in the summer. I did notice that my boost sensor doesn't get dirty any more which I enjoy. I hated taking it out every oil change to clean it.
    I have not done anything else to my CRD, but this summer I want to change things up to see if I can get better MPG out of it. Does anyone know about a good performance chip and exhaust that works on a CRD? I would like to hear from people that have actually did the work on their CRD and have hard evidence that the changes have increased the MPG. Thanks
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    put the turbo muffler on no increase in milage but sounds nice i also average about nineteen to twenty miles per gallon
  • emp2emp2 Member Posts: 20
    I have a 2006 and average 24 mpg . My jeep was one of the last models made and must have had the work required by the " F37 recall" done at the factory. I believe the results of the F37 left a lot of discreprancy between the individual liberty shift ranges and therefore a lot gas mileage differance between vehicles. I am wondering what the mpg would be if the original settings intended for the liberty were used ?
    Has any one changed their liberty back to original settings? My jeep shifts into final lock up at 64 mph and out at 61 . If I am reading the factory manual correctly this lock up was intended to occur at 50 mph before the F37 .
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Member Posts: 253
    I've read your problem. Have someone put that vehicle on a hoist and check all your wiring harness es before you spend all that money. If your turbo was bad it wouldn't just stop being defective. This is a fly by wire set up. You made one comment that makes alot of sense. It only happens when it is raining or wet, follow that lead before you sink too much money into it. A throttle position sensor can cause what your experiencing which will clear up after the moisture dries up. I had a problem after the dealer did the torque converter change. They damaged the harness causing some shorting when it got wet. I repaired it myself. That was at 28K. The last time the dealer touched my 05CRD was then. I now have 94K on this beast. Runs better then when it was new with no problems. I will be changing the timing belt and overhauling the turbo and water pump at the same time. The kit to rebuild this turbo is about $150, water pump about $75. Dam good vehicle if you don't shotgun the repairs and know what your doing. Also: "Don't flush this trans!!"
    Just change the filter and fluids.
  • chester5chester5 Member Posts: 9
    Where can I get a manual? I've been looking but so far no luck.
  • chester5chester5 Member Posts: 9
    Interesting thing, mine ran great for 3-4 months while the weather was cold (Canada),,,,,all of a sudden with a warm up of temperature, the jerking started up again, if it is torque convertor or trans or EGR I'm not sure.
    Any ideas on this? Thanks for sharing all the info, it's great and I can't wait to get mine into the garage and start working on it. Would do better if I could fine a manual to go along with it though.
    Thanks
  • mdamickmdamick Member Posts: 277
    I have not heard "don't flush the transmission".
    Why?
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    you may have to reflash after replacing fluid but probably not we dont flush here but unhook cooling line and let the converter pump out the fluid been doing it that way for almost thirty years never had a problem
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't even trust that and just had my mechanic do a simple drain and fill on my high mileage minivan. :)

    Mdamick, here's one version of why some of us are leery of flushes (power or otherwise).

    amigo_john, "Isuzu Trooper" #8070, 30 Jun 2003 7:46 am
  • emp2emp2 Member Posts: 20
    playgabe would you please put on line at what speeds the shifting sequince takes place in your 2005. I'm considering reflashing to prior F37 conditions or in other words original factory conditions . My final lockup is at 64 miles per hour . This seem a very high range .
    Thanks
  • mdamickmdamick Member Posts: 277
    I did it a while back to a 93 Jeep Cherokee with 2500000 mi.
    Seems to run just fine.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Jeep Cherokee with 2500000 mi.

    That works out to over 150,000 miles per year or over 400 miles per day. I suspect you put an extra 0 in that number. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • mdamickmdamick Member Posts: 277
    What's a factor of 10 among friends?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You have to power flush those decimal points. :shades:

    I doubt that my van will see 150,000 miles in our household but if the tranny dies while we have it, I'll let you know. 250,000 is impressive!
  • tnilc99tnilc99 Member Posts: 15
    Hello all,
    I have noticed that a number of general posts are in reference to milage. I am currently working on that issue. As soon as I have some real data and run time I will
    post the results.
    But for now under normal conditions, the real key is to not rev over 2000 rpm. I did a series of tests that show the best milage ( 24 mpg ) will be consistant if driven
    at 2000 rpm and lower. If some one can figure out how to raise the rear end ratio up
    a bit to allow 75 mph to be achieved at 2000 rpm that would be ideal.
    For those that wish to attempt these tests, remember those jack rabbit starts from
    a dead stop position are not good as rpm's jump well over 2000 every time.

    Later gang
  • mdamickmdamick Member Posts: 277
    What about an overdrive auxiliary transmission?
  • tnilc99tnilc99 Member Posts: 15
    Hello mdamick,
    What exactly is a overdrive auxiliary transmission? I mean can you elaborate a bit to give me an idea exactly what it will take to accomplish this task.
    I was thinking more on the idea of installing a taller gear in the rear end if possible.
    Engines I have no problem understanding and working, I just dont know that much about transmissions.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I think we should be informed of the maximum torque our transmission can hold. From there we can evaluate the eventual overdrive ratio that will not destroy the converter.

    My observation of several types of mechanical assemblies make me say that when a lower torque gearing is used, longevity is increased. What costs us more trouble on the long run?
  • tnilc99tnilc99 Member Posts: 15
    Caribou,
    That is an excellent point, which brings me to the next question. When you have a
    total break down of a torque converter due to excessive engine torque being delivered to the tranny, What portion of the converter fails due to this condition?
    I wouldnt think that the little bit of additional ratio necessary to achieve 75 mph
    at 2000 rpm would change torque converter load that much, but really not sure.
    Right now I turn 2000 rpm at 70 mph.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I don't have the drawing of the transmission with me, but I remember seeing that all three elements of the hydraulic converter are interconnected via wet plate clutches and planetary gears. To speak simply, the intermediate flange/rotor of the coupler sees the total load of the engine when it is 'locked'. The wet plate clutches acting behind/after the converter should be much less sensitive to vibration under torque, comparing to the intermediate rotor of the converter. There was a replacement rotor mentioned by 'winter2' some time ago; this should be the best way to protect your wallet in case you want to add more power.
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