Jeep Liberty Diesel

tired_old_dave

If you haven't lurked since post~1800. Give it a try. early on I bought, after a second day confirmation from dc's shop manual subsidiary? confirmed the crd info was on the cd. Wrong. Anomius or somebody sent me to ebay where for less than US $60 (including shipping from Canada) I got the real shop manual cd. Thanks for reinforcing the class III assault on class IV oils. I am the proud owner of a $100 shop manual from dc showing the euro waste gate design.
Do we have some ringers here? Should I finally get lost?

tired_old_dave

farout, why another thread? Shouldn't real newbies go back and read up since edmund's isn't topic specific but ongoing discussion? Maybe I don't understand as much as I thought? We bought and I read and finally posted after 4 months and already knew the posters because I had read them for four months. Paraphrasing anomius-they got our money. I am trying to help make these vehicles safe and dependable - my wife likes to drive this girly suv - when she can pull the keys from my hand. There still is serious concern on my part about the balljoints. If dc can't even use computers and design hoses - do you really think I trust my wife's life without my balljoint check.

farout

Dave, how long does a person have to be here before they are not a "newbies"? I noticed I have been on this from 4/05 and you from 6/05. None the less you are pretty up to date on the CRD. As far as another thread, well it was a bad "newbies" idea, and I think it's dead in the ciber space water.
I had a 2002 Dakota and it ate ball joints about every 15,000 miles, I owned it until 93,000 miles, and they needed replaced again at that point. I never spent one dime getting DC to stand behind the ball joints.
We live on a very rough road. Should the 2005's have a problem the odds are they will show up within the next 6,000 miles here.

I checked and at 10,300 miles there seems to be no problem as you have with your air box....yet.
Do you think Dc will make the changes in the CRD to meet Fed. Smog laws in 2006, or go to the MB Blueflame which exceeds all 2006 laws now?

Farout

tired_old_dave

How long - I don't know - I'm new to this. I just thought out of courtesy one should get up to speed before rehashing old stuff - unless it's an attempt to kill real discussion.

As you know from my earlier post my old second hand, at least, '68 caddy's ball joints would pop in/out over rr tracks until funds were available for the fix. One of the forums has drawings and an explanation why the lower ball joint failure results in separation with the lower control arm and wheel sideways on the ground. A college student's failed in the campus parking lot? after a 300 mile trip as posted on another forum recently.

I thought 2005 had a new design - only to find out they meant liberty(cherokee)(cherokee replacement for us) went from sfa to this setup. I was not in the market for a jeep liberty but seeing an actual crd on a showroom floor in February and my wife's desire to purchase after a test drive - say no more.

The little I know about blueflame seems to be a chemical (ammonia?) that is added from a tank in the trunk to reduce nox. No way I'm buying into that. It's a temp dc fix anyway. Do the cummins still not need an egr. Hell, for all the trouble an egr is why not just weld in a corning self cleaning particulate filter and a second cat on a separate pipe in the exhaust system and replace that whenever - if that will do away with the egr and it's coolant lines etc..

In case you haven't been keeping up lost. Retmil46 says at tdr they think the trans shudder is an electrical induction/field effect on the wiring to the pcm.

Goodnight - the team of my birthplace just won the superbowl again - so I hear. I try to do not watch.

stever

Most of the make/model boards around here have a problems and solutions discussion. It's not a matter of courtesy so much as it's an attempt to organize 3 million messages so people can find answers without getting too bogged down in a general discussion.

The Search This Discussion tool has helped that problem a lot though.

Steve, Host

tired_old_dave

Steve,
I understand. I think I posted years ago on the Previa discussion. I guess one of the first owners could've started it or been nudged to start it. Other boards use different methodology. Edmund's search engine can help somewhat. Edmunds was the first place for me and this is the system started years ago that is being used. Do you want us to open numerous discussions or threads, for example transmissions, egr's, mileage, dealership experience? Can we do that? Can you move past posts into these categories? This discussion is mostly about problems since we are guinea pigs for dc. I think you'll find this discussion turning to waxes, thingies to hang on the mirror etc as the first wave into the battle takes an r&r or goes offroading or joins the bowtie. I will not pass a problem on to the next guy and lie through my teeth.

stever

It's not a big deal; just post where you are comfortable. It a discussion looks too narrowly focused to garner any interest, the hosts may nudge the participants (and their posts) elsewhere. Or it may auto-archive on its own. :-)

Steve, Host

caribou1

I'm using 225x75x16 because we have to use snow chains on mountain roads and I don't want to destroy the plastic liners around the wheels.

winter2

Are you using chains on all four wheels or just in the back? What type of chains are they? Who makes them?

caribou1

These are the chains I used once last winter:
http://www.koenig-ketten.de/lkw/noproblemt2.htm
They are easy to install on pavement, but forget about putting them on once you're in deep snow!
Front or back? Four wheels?
With my BFG T/A in deep and frozen snow (up to my knees) I don't need chains. The only problem I had was the Jeep rested on top of the frozen snow drift and the 4 wheels where just not touching the ground anymore. I tried putting them on but they were useless. I didn't move an inch with my new chains that day!
Someone came to help me and applied pressure to the front fender, I don't want to say he pushed me, and I was able to back out immediately by myself.
When you have one set of chains only, people here say to put them up front to widen the track for the rear wheels.

winter2

Bluetec (not Blueflame) is a concentrated solution of urea. Is it a temp fix? Hard to say. Does it work? Yes. If this is what it takes to resolve the problem for now, then I find it acceptable until something simpler and as effective shows up. NOx is a tough nut to crack and is diesel's achilles heel. Without this, diesel will die in this country. If I could retrofit this on my CRD for a reasonable price, I would do it.

As to the Cummins in the Dodge, it is in a larger class of truck so is sort of exempt for a bit longer

patentguy

"Another local gas station just went to B10 for $2.49 a gallon "

I live in MD too. Where is the B10 station located?

mdamick

An FYI for those of you in snow country.
If the snow is around frame deep when you drive it forces the snow up and into the windshield and also the radiator.
It was 25F this AM & I heard the warning bell go off. The engine was overheating! Found that the electric fan was jammed with snow and the whole front end was plugged. Blew the 40A fuse for the fan. Spent about 15 min with some wire knocking the snow out around the A/C condenser so that the radiator could breathe a little. Cooled right down to 1/2 mark and then a little more as I got the speed up and blew out some more snow.

caribou1

Hi Skiduck,
Here is my quick-fix for the vacuum pilot line:

I just took a piece of 1/4" round solid plastic and a little hose to make a male-female plug.
I should have done this before :lemon:

lightnin3

Hi Farout !,
It was probably stale fuel sitting too long at the pump,or waTer in the fuel.
Did you use powerservice,or an additive that takes the water out?
At the same station try a half tank of the regular #1 diesel.
Where do you usually get your fuel at ? what station?.
Speak Soon..
Lightnin3...

winter2

Is there enough clearance to put them on the front wheels? When I looked, some of the suspension components seemed pretty close to the tires. I am going to purchase some "S" class cable chains. We get more ice than snow here and cable chains are more appropriate.

winter2

Thanks for the heads up. I will get some 40 amp fuses and keep them in the car and make sure the nose is not pointing in the direction of the falling snow. I may even cover the opening.

caribou1

Here is the fix to cure the burning of the ball joints. Notice the fin between the disk and ball joint:


Here is my EGR tube connecting into the intake manifold. It's visible from underneath only:


Here is a leak on the cold side of the turbo. It leaks onto my two oil tubes going into the head of the engine. I think the recent engines have a different design:


There is also a leak on the Selec-Trac seal at 65,000KM:

tired_old_dave

Do you have one nice big air filter in that box?

tired_old_dave

Burning of the ball joints. That's the fix we got too. This is not preventing ball joint failure and wheel separation. Reports of at least one "05 and some earlier models repaired with the fix. I did notice that based on your lbj mine looks like someone on the production line ran out of grease. If it had a ftg I'd be pumping some syn grease in right now. That's not true. I pumped a little grease into our e-150 ford (almost no clearance from the rotor, ford service advisor was mad that I put grease in)and it got on the rotor took out the pads and produced some unique experiences. Like the e-150 there is no inside rotor cover and it's best not to give anybody the chance to put grease anywhere near the brakes.

It's no fun reading english instructions on the oil filter - is there french/german/italian around the bend?
Thanks for the pictures.

jimhemi

Thanks.

jimhemi

Thanks! I had my local chemist decode everything you just said :P
Seriously though, I gather from what you're saying is that Mobile 1 is better. I plan on using synthetic only so I will use the Delvac per your recommendations. I live in NJ, what viscosity do you recommend? I also drive like I stole it. I have always been partial to Valvoline, used it in my race cars and street cars and never had a problem. Then again with all of these new engines and the tighter tolerances and manufacturer specific recommendations such as Mercedes requirements and I guess I needed to start re thinking my oil. Reading the many posts and mentions of Mobile 1 Delvac in diesels and I wanted to make sure my hard earned money is protected. You seem to be the most knowledgeable on the subject so I appreciate you looking up the material safety sheets and such. I have no idea what any of the ash factors and all mean. This is my first new vehicle and first experience with a diesel. Thanks again.

synlubes

mobil oil is a good product but amsoil 5-40 is the only north american oil meeting new european speck

towwme

The ball joints will take quite a bit of heat IF the boots are made of silicone they would be good for about 220°F. There could have been a problem on the Ford Mustang Cobra-R, Cobra and the vehicle code name Condor (unreleased SVT Mustang) as the bigger brakes didn't have room for a heat shield if the silicone boot seals were not used. Some of the people who raced (track at very high speeds) the Cobra-R's still had problems as they really heated the brakes racing. Neoprene boots are normally use when a heat shield is present. I designed ball joints for many Ford passenger cars, including the GT (GT40). I can only assume (I KNOW) that the manufacture for the CRD's ball joints designed the boots to withstand the heat. The grease in them, if a lube-for-life design, is custom made synthetic grease developed specifically for the application based on tribology studies.

synlubes

API SM/CF ACEA C3-04 ACEA A3/B3-04 ACEA A3/B4-04 MB 229.31,229.51 BMWLL-04 PORSCHE SAAB VOLVO VW 502.00 505.00 505.01 5-40 AMSOIL IS RECOMMENDED FOR THE LONGEST DRAIN INTERVAL RECOMMENDED BY THE MANUFACTURES ONLY NORTH AMERICAN OIL MEETING THESE NEW SPECKS

caribou1

I think to make a better heat shield would be to chrome plate the fin or make it from stainless steel. This would considerably reduce it's emissivity and avoid convection towards the rubber boot. Nevertheless my brakes have not yet reached 50% wear after 40,000 miles, meaning that they don't overheat :shades:

caribou1

The filter on the picture is a MANN filter ref: W 719/14 .
By the way, my original Mopar filter was made in Italy. It's written on it. It could be made by FRAM ???

whitgallman

Of course we are picking through oils to try to tweak the last fraction of a percent out of perfection. (may be ignoring costs as part of the equation) JimHemi, I like Delvac 1 until the fuel sulfur drops this coming Fall. DC had to keep in mind that our exhaust has a catalytic converter on it. The phosphorous (part of the ZDDP anti-oxidant/anti-wear, EP additive) can shorted the life of gasoline engine catalytic converters and so Mobil has replaced some of it with other additive chemicals with those characteristics. I don't know much about our diesel cat. Car engine Mobil 1's may be kinder to it than heavy-duty truck engine oils.
Synlubes, tell me about the new european oil specs?(Oh you did. Nevermind) I know the Amsoil line is ester based (more like brake fluid phosphate ester). There is an engine oil line called RedLine made of PAG (Poly-alpha-glycol) but it's pricey.

synlubes

amsoil is mixing base stocks now they are hard to copy they are trying to get american oil company to go to the three tier oil quality like europe mobile is going that way finally with there five ten and fifteen thousand mile oils its about time im going to amsoil 5w-30 series 2000 it is pricey tough the best product they build not the right viscosity but better millage

tired_old_dave

Thank you very much. I'm glad we have some engineers on the forum. I don't think I could put my finger between the tie rod end and the rotor on the e-150. The doughnuts were flat and I pumped in three small shots of syn lube- castrol syntech because my mobil 1 would leak out it's carrier oil. The kj seems to have enough space for heat to flow between the lbj and the rotor.

tired_old_dave

I thought zddp was a zinc formulation with zinc being a relative of lead, an old valve lubricant.
I remember a Canadian auto writer (some time back) talking about testing some oil (think remember ester in the type) in his vw diesel said this synthetic lasted long per tests and increased his mileage. I thought the syns were pao and poe's? (Steve-I know there is an oil discussion but winter2 is checking on the amsoil 5w40 for us) Should we follow winter2 to amsoil? Why no royal purple 5w40?
My oil level dropped for the first time. Libertcrd stated his quit using oil after switching to 5w40 rotella. I already bought mobil 1 truck suv - should I use it or exchange it for something else?

winter2

Okay, here is the news from Amsoil.

Their 5W-40 has been re-formulated. It is now a CF rated oil with a TBN of 8. It is an oil that you can use in the CRD but personally, I would wait until ULSD has been established for a while and you have used several tankfuls to get the sulfur out/reduced. I looked at some other Amsoil products and their 10W-40 is a CI-4 oil with a TBN > 12. Stay away from the series 3000 5W-30 oil. I asked V.M. Motori about this oil (sent specs)and they stated that it was not adequate at higher temperatures. They did not say what those temperatures were. Amsoil 15W-40 is pretty good too. I will probably end up using either the 10W-40 or 15W-40.

As to Royal Purple, I spoke with one of their technical people who told me that their 15W-40 would be fine to use in the CRD.

I did a bunch of research using Mobil 1 0W-40 as baseline and compared as many specs and oils as I could find. I will put them in a spreadsheet and post later.

moparbad

CI-4 Plus

I'll stick with CI-4 Plus. Technical Specs. that exceed need. Exceeds OEM specified oil recommendation. Readily available. Cost effective. Oil analysis proven in other egr turbo diesel applications.

winter2

Could the host (one of them) post instructions on how to paste a tif file to a message box.

Thanks

craigs1969

From the help area...

how to post a picture

winter2

Thanks.

winter2

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f249/winter51/oilchart.jpg

scogginsje

Does anybody have any experience/opinions of the roof racks they sell in the Jeep Superstore site

stever

I know there is an oil discussion

Gee, I don't see dead dino in that chart of Winters.

Seems topical enough to talk about the oils; please don't overlook the roofrack kind of posts though.

Steve, Host

winter2

Took a peek at the MSDS and it appears as if this oil is a hydro treated petroleum product and not a PAO type oil. I would be careful with this one.

winter2

As to roofracks, I know nothing about them from DC or after market.

stever

Here's some other options for you to look over until another Jeeper comes along with some Superstore rack info:

Roof racks, Bike Racks and Cargo Carriers (OEM, Thule, Yakima)

Steve, Host

moparbad

I favor the Wilderness rack. Wilderness Roof Rack

moparbad

Polyalphaolefins....hmmmm...

Took a peek at the MSDS and it appears as if this oil is a hydro treated petroleum product and not a PAO type oil. I would be careful with this one.

Rotella Synthetic is Group III based. That said, whether a oil is good or not truly depends on how well it performs.
I'm confident in the performance of the Rotella based on past performance. Have yet to see any results based data to cause a concern with Rotella, or show that it less effective in use compared with Mobil, Amosil, etc..

Maybe if the oil was used for extended intervals past 12,500 miles it would at some point break down before a PAO based synthetic?

jimhemi

Whitgallman, what's your opinion on Lucas heavy oil treatment? From what I understand that stuff was invented for the heavy duty diesel market almost 30 years ago. Is it worth adding to the CRD? Basing it on how it has worked in some race engines it seems to do the job well. Then again it could be because of the high frequency of oil changes in racing applications.
I have seen the Lucas oil displays in some auto parts stores and was pretty convinced it did something seeing how it clung to the gears in the see through case... Then again a high heat, fuel, volatile environment is totally different, so once again I'm asking the professor.

skiduck

Hello Winter2 it is at 1704 Rosemont Ave. Frederick MD. 21702 It is called Rosemont service center next to the Sheetz's. It is off of Motter ave not far from US 15 in frederick city maryland. Hope this helps. There phone is 301 662 3063 Good luck. I filled up there today for $2.49 and Libby is running ok.

skiduck

Hello farout. I have seen charts about what different tires do to raise or lower your speedometer readings. I think I saw a similar chart for gear ratios. I think I got to the link by starting at www.warn.com and going thru there links until I got to some aftermarket gear vendors. Don't hold me to it but I will try to get some websites and post them later in the week. As far as your dealers math skills I figure that if we can send a man to the moon then somebody out there has figured out the ratio of how many revolutions a tire turns to a mile of distance. Sometimes I used to see these numbers listed in literature from tiremakers when comparing the old system of inches to the new metric ratio system used on most new tires today. Good luck

skiduck

Thanks caribou1. I have just bought my 05 Libby and have not had an egr problem (yet) but was going to try your solution just to see if it makes any difference before it has a noticeable problem. Also I didn't understand what earlier posts had called a transmission shudder but I think I had one early today. Its like somebody pulled the emergency brake twice and applied and released it in quick succesion. Pretty bad for only 400 miles on the clock. Can someone tell me if this is what they experienced also. Thanks in advance. P.S. Good photo!

skiduck

Hello again jimhemi, I sent an e-mail to Valvoline about there 5w-40 synthetic blue and asked about my 05 Libby and if it was up to DC specs and about my owners manual spec. of 0w-40 and I received a short but sweet answer of yes it is ok for the CRD's and no they don't make a 0w-40 so use the 5w-40 and you will be fine. I have personally used this in my 01 powerstroke and noticed it started better in the winter than using 15w-40 but my mileage was the same or even a little worse. Hope this helps. Good luck getting anything substantial out of Valvoline.

skiduck

Hello again caribou1. I was looking at your pixs and it looks like the next time you need to buy rotors to try and find some high performance drilled and slotted from EBC or NAPA, has their own brand. This should keep the rotor temps down on your ball joint. I have them on my 01 powerstroke after many rotors being junked from warping. I can actually touch my rotors with my bare hands after coming back from driving and my empty weight is almost 8k. I hope your leaking oil problem is just bad seals covered under warranty, If not you could possibly try going to a thicker viscosity to correct those minor leaks. Also is the oil on those two lines coming from that hose clamp in the center left picture?