2013 and earlier-Acura TL Prices Paid and Buying Experience

n2muzic

Just purchased non-nav in Pasadena, CA for 31,400 + tax, lic, reg. No hassles at all! See Fernando at Acura of Pasadena. He was great.

msf2

I don't see Falkens on tirerack and Sears didn't have the right size in stock. Did you consider any other tires for the car?

Anoyone else feel free to chime in here!

mobofe

Never knew of the falkens until dulnev brought them up, i would probably have bought them if i had seen them on tirerack during my search. as dulnev has mentioned before, they can be bought at edgeracing.com

i went with the contiextremes which are probably the best tires i've had in the past 6 years. they are excellent in the snow and very quiet on dry. they just cost $20 more - when the contis run their course, i'd probably go with the falkens on the strength of the reviews and cost.

dulnev

As mobofe mentioned, they are available at edgeracing.com for $89 (it was $85 when I bought them). If you Google the tire name, you'd come up with several more sites that sell them, but none as cheap as edgeracing.com.

They are #1 rated performance tires by Consumer Reports.

lobito17

You can have your car serviced wherever you want. Service and sales are completely separate functions (although dealerships try hard to steer you to their service dept)

I bought my Odyssey minivan in Miami (the only dealer in the whole country who had one in 1999), even though I lived in Chicago.

Think about it -- people move all the time after they have purchased or leased cars.

Good luck to you.

mechrad1

I just purchased 2004tl with navi, all weather mats, small air deflector on the trunk, body side moldings. The car was 4 months old and had 5600 miles. They certified it which gives me about 7 extra months of warranty, extra road side assistance and a longer powertrain warranty. I paid 33500 with a 100 dollar document fee. As I was expecting to get a new car I was not prepared well for the negotiation for the used tl. What do you guys think?

obsidiany2k

Just leased an '04 TL this weekend in Ohio:

AT, non-nav, basic, anthrocite/ebony

36 mo/15,000 miles
$700 total down
$485/month

Let me know your thoughts on payments....

I think they could have been lower, but the wife was eager to get this car....

glevitt

Based on my calculation you are right on the money assuming your payment is pretax. If it includes tax then you got a good deal. To really evaluate it, you would have to tell us what the money factor is (should be .00215) and the residual (should be 58%) as well as what you paid. When you said you put seven hundred down, is that the only discount you got off of MSRP or did you negotiate the car down first? Was any of that seven hundred your first months payment or security deposit?

obsidiany2k

My payment of $485 includes the tax.

$700 was for 1st month, initial title fees, upfront sales tax and capitalized cost reduction

negotiated vehicle price to $30,600 (although adjusted capitalized cost is showing $32,347.60?)
I thought the money factory was quoted at .0022
residual value $19,253.10 (would be 63% based on $30,600...60% based on $32,347.60)

First time leasing, so not sure about all the numbers...

Comments would be appreciated. At this point, I love the car, so I'm not going to complain, although I still feel the monthly payments are high...could be $15-20/month lower. Maybe I should have signed the lease papers, and reviewed first, instead of the wife...

brew99

I asked your question to a good friend of mine who is a tax accountant and he does say that the dealer does remit GST based on the net amount collected. However, here are his other comments:

"Generally car dealerships have a reputation for suspect treatment of taxes and the remittance of the same. This reputation is further fuelled by the large number of court cases involving fraud in the industry."

mobofe

hmmm....i agree with your suspicions that you may be paying more than your wife actually bargained for.

my thoughts:

#1. officially, American HONDA finance corp (AHFC)'s residual moneyfactor and residual are .00215 and 58% respectively for non-navi 36month 15K lease. The dealer can mark it up (i.e increase the MF and/or decrease the residual) to make more money. The residual numbers you provide however, make little sense (60-63%).

#2. The $700 upfront doesn't cover much - your 1st month's payment is already $485, that leaves $215 for the other incidental costs you mentioned. this indicates that the security deposit equal to one month's lease has been 'waived'. Did the dealer say that AHFC is running a promotion to waive that security deposit? While just conjecture at this point, the low upfront payment makes me think that the dealer rolled some additional dough into your monthly payments.

#3. As mentioned in #1, i believe the numbers you provide don't make sense but if I were to use your 'negotiated' price and standard AHFC lease #s to calculate the lease, you would be paying more than you should.

Assume you bought for $30,600 with residual of 58% and MF of .00215, your monthly payment should be: $423 before tax. your total payment should be $423 x 1.0xxx (xxx = your tax rate - what is it btw?).

From a rough calculation, i think your dealer _actually_ sold you the vehicle for $32,347.60 rather than $30,600. This is more in line with a $485 payment.

The TL may be a great car and worth that extra cost but the fact of the matter is that your dealer might have pulled a fast one on you. I consider this fraud and it's something to fight. Of course, this is all predicated on my lousy math being right but from my experience looking at cars to lease in the 30K range, you should be paying closer to $400 rather than $500 per month.

I would be kicking and screaming at the dealer's door bright and early tomorrow.

mobofe

on the outset, i personally wouldn't have paid $33,500 for a used navi with 5600K miles. I have heard quotes for $32,900 for a brand spanking new one in NJ; granted different regions will have diff. prices/availability but to pay above invoice for a used TL sounds whacked. I'd say the seller got a great deal - he basically rented the car for $425/month for 4 months (assuming he bought at MSRP).

Btw, why is it so many are asking post-facto if they got a great deal - sounds like upside-down logic to me.

kyfdx

I ran the numbers at .0022 and 58% of MSRP ($33150). I came up with almost exactly your payment of $485, and also the residual matches yours. I'm assuming the $700 is for first payment, plus title work and plates.. maybe a small doc fee. I think the difference in the sales price and the capitalized cost, is in Ohio, you pay the sales tax on the lease up front. I live in KY, but buy most of my cars in Ohio because of my close proximity, and always have to remind them that we don't do it that way in KY.

So, I think the $1750 difference between sale price and cap cost is for the acquisition fee and the sales tax. Running the numbers with the given cap cost, residual and money factor hits your payment almost exactly, so the additional cap cost is the only place to put those two items.

Looks like to me you got a 3 year lease for nothing down and $485/mo tax included. Seems like a very good deal and that the actual sales price was $30,600, or about $2500 off MSRP.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

Remember: residual is always based on MSRP, not cap cost. His residual does match the 58%. I think the money factor is a little higher because they waived the security deposit.

I agree: At $700 upfront, that only leaves $215 for title work, plates, registration, etc. The acquisition fee ($550 or $595, I'm not sure) and the sales tax have to be added onto the sale price to get the cap cost.

I think a good deal all the way around. Since the dealer seems honest to me, you could go back and ask him to break it down for you.

regards,
kyfdx

mobofe

you correct, the 19253.10 was exactly 58% - i just didn't connect the two until after i wrote it.

Nevertheless, i think i learned something new about leases and sales tax today. how does this tax in ohio work with regards to doing the calculations for the lease. i.e. if you were to do the same lease in KY (assuming same interest rate), you would be paying $30-$40 more just for the privilege of leasing?

kap8

Went to Rallye Acura in Roslyn, NY today. I have a Volvo s40 lease ending 3/31 and was considering s60. Drove the TL and loved it! After some haggling and some research (thanks, guys) I was quoted a 42 mth lease, 12k miles/year, NOTHING down, taxes rolled in, at $439/mth AND Acura will pay March's volvo payment ($385) if I take possession by 2/29. Seems like a good deal to me, what do you guys think? Thanks!

bodble2

Thanks for your reply, but if it is true then it creates a bit of a cash-cow for car dealers.

(My apology to our US friends who would have zero interest in this topic)

When a car dealer acquires a used car (by trade-in or otherwise) there is supposedly a notional input tax credit on whatever they pay for the car. (So, for example, if they give you $20,000 for your car, $1308 of that is inputed ITC). And when they turn around and sell that car, they can offset that $1308 against whatever GST they collect on the sale. So that $1308 in reality is pure profit for them.

So, in the situation of a trade-in transaction, my thinking was that if they have to remit GST based on the full price of the new car they sell you, then the above ITC freebie is offset by the additional GST on the new car. But if they remit only the actually amount collected from you, then they reap the benefit from the imputed ITC on the car taken in on trade.

obsidiany2k

kyfdx,

The tax is paid for upfront in Ohio, in the dealership's county it's 8%...so I did roll that into the payments to avoid a larger down payment.

dragonheart67

Hi, I am new to the message board. Thoroughly enjoyed the experiences posted by everyone. Currently considering G35X vs. 2004 TL with nav. Unfortunately, there are no dealers in the Pacific Northwest offering less than MSRP. Just went to the message board for G35. Apparently, one of the posters from Seattle was able to get a fully loaded G35 (AWD with premium package) at $3200 less than MSRP via autopurchaseconsulting. Just wondering if anyone else has tried the service for 2004 TL? I think the company charges a $100 fee for their service.

soljc

It's all about supply and demand, so in my opinion, a broker isn't going to negotiate any better a price than you could have done yourself. I'm in the midst of negotiating a deal on an '04 TL, and I think this message board has served me quite well.

kyfdx

In Ohio, they figure the depreciation and the "rent charge" (that is the interest) and multiply it by the tax rate (8% evidently in obsidiany2k's case) and the tax is paid up front. In Kentucky, you take the monthly payment and tax is added to that payment each month. The leasing company then remits this money to the state.(quarterly, i think)
In Ohio, the tax has to be paid to register the car, just as if you were purchasing it. You can either pay it up front, or the leasing company pays it up front, and adds it into your cap cost.

It works out almost exactly the same, assuming the tax rates are the same. I think the drawback to the Ohio way of doing things, is if you end your lease early for whatever reason, that tax has already been paid, and is lost. In Kentucky, no tax is paid ahead of the payment.

Obsidian... they must have a local sales tax in your county. Isn't Ohio's sales tax 7%?

regards,
kyfdx

nyshappy

Hi Kap8,

Was that TL you leased from Rallye, a NAV or non NAV? was it a car they already had on the lot?
I live near Roslyn and would most likely be checking them out to lease a nav TL...
thanks

moeronn

Hi All - I am debating between the TL Auto w/Navi and a G35x Sedan (non Navi, as it isn't as well integrated as the TL's). The Lease terms I have been quoted so far on the TL are not that favorable. The residual on the TL (50-52%) is 6-8% lower than that of the G35x (58%) for a 39 month lease @ 15k miles/year. Also, as most people here have noted, the lack of availability of the TL has kept the price of the TL very close to MSRP while I can get the G35x for $300 above invoice (+$400 marketing support - does Acura charge this?). This makes the decision more difficult. We're talking $100/mo difference between the two cars for a 36 or 39 month lease. If anyone has any suggestions or info on how to get a better deal on the TL in Southern Cal, it would be greatly appreciated.

eglewis

I just took delivery of a new 2004 tl with nav,
mud guards,wood knob, splash guards, trunk mat,
all-season mats, wheel locks, green exterior, parchment interior.
Price 32,800. Only additional costs were tax and title.
I originally ordered the vehicle from another dealer in Nov, with the expected delivery date in Feb. In Jan, I came across another dealer whose price was $600+ lower, so I went with him.
The wait paid off.

mobofe

let me get this straight, what mainly accounts for obsidiany2k's rather high $485 lease is the fact that he rolled a couple of misc. fees (security deposition, aquisition fee etc.) into the payment?

can you confirm that, assuming no state tax, a $30,600 cap cost on the base AHFC (58%, .00215 mf) lease would amount to ~$422-$423? if incorrect, what is the figure?

guptag724

Hi, congrats on your great deal? would you mind sharing your experience? Where did you buy the car from?

obsidiany2k

mobofe,

In Ohio, the sales tax is based on the particular county. I bought the car in Cuyahoga county, which has 8% sales tax. This being said, the taxes are rolled into the $485/month payment.

brew99

Too much for me to follow - I think you are looking for a reason to start your own dealership and cash in big time and drive a new TL every month.......

ryanl1

Lol.Don't worry about how dealers report their income.Just focus on what you want net....unless you want to print up a business card with Revenue Canada auditor on it and use it as a negotiating ploy.

eglewis

Sussman Acura, maple shade, nj.

kevd

Congrats, great deal! That's the pricing I've been waiting for. I'm in RI but will travel to NY or NJ. Did you order this car or was it on the lot? Do you know if that pricing is available for anyone? Thanks,
Kevd

kyfdx

The extra money rolled into the cap cost, is I think, acquistion fee ($595) and sales tax (approx $1150-1200). I do come up with the same number as you, using the $30,600 number, but adding that extra $1750 into the cap cost, is about $51/mo. That gets me within $10/month of his payment. Without seeing the exact paperwork, it is hard to say exactly what went into the additional cap cost, or even exactly what MF was used. His MF is likely to be higher, because of waiving the security deposit. Usually that is an increase of .00015. The MF is one item that isn't listed on the lease paperwork. The finance charges are listed as a specific dollar amount.

If I can make his numbers come out within $10/mo. without seeing the paperwork, it seems like a fair deal. It just shows you that when leasing, bargaining hard really pays off. If you save $500 on a car you are buying and keeping for five years, then you are just saving $10/mo. If you save that much on a 3 year lease, it is $15/mo.

regards,
kyfdx

kap8

Hi Shappy -

I'm taking delivery on 2/27 b/c I've already paid for Feb's Volvo lease, but they had the car on the lot. It was a non-NAV, basic TL. Cap cost was, I believe, $30,600 with a 56% residual (b/c 42 mths). $439/mth, nothing down at all, taxes rolled in, and they paid my last month's Volvo payment ($385). They call it a balloon-payment instead of a lease now b/c of liability issues, but it's the same thing as far as I can tell. There might have been more "wiggle" room, but I came in with figures in mind and once he met them (and I already knew I wanted the car), I took it. Getting quotes from other dealers on-line first was a good negotiating tool as well.

Good luck!

eglewis

The car was not on the lot, but they had ordered it previously, and the vehicle was expected to arrive around 3 weeks after I made the deal. I don't know if this pricing is available for everyone, but there is no reason why you cannot get the same deal or do even better. I had a solid offer from another dealer, so I had something to work with. I also had the option to wait for the car if it was ordered.
  I recommend you contact the internet manager,
tell them what you want to pay, and proceed from there. Good Luck.

richmarino

I bought my '04 TL just before Dec 25th 2003 in the Philadelphia area.

The dealer was not special - sort of a "low rent" feeling... I certainly did not fee like I was buy a luxuary car.

Anycase, the car was really hot at the time (and still is) so the supply was really low and the demand was high.

I think I got a good deal on the car. Anyone else?

Rich
Philadelphia, PA

bodble2

I did spend almost 8 years working for them when they were called Revenue Canada. Hmm...I might still have a couple of old business cards laying around....

pat

Hey folks, we have a whole board dedicated to the ins and outs of leasing vehicles. Check out the list of discussions on the Finance, Warranty & Insurance board. You'll probably find a great place for all your leasing questions - one likely candidate is our ever-popular Lease Questions - Ask Here where our resident expert, Car_man tells you all you might ever want to know about leasing.

Meanwhile, the purpose of this discussion is more along the lines of "what deal did you already get and what was it like getting it" rather than what is the best way to go after a lease.

So maybe we can continue the leasing conversation on the right board, and let this conversation get back to the deals folks have gotten.

Thanks.

msf2

I think your deal was a good deal. You and I are going to read about new TL buyers who did better than we did (I paid $34) My hat's off to them and the nice situation they found. It's all about what it's worth to you (within reason), the experience with the dealer/salesperson, and how the car feels to you. All that was near perfect for me. I don't buy a car that often and I think the TL is a fabulous car. I can afford it now and I knew during the test drive it was all over. I don't care about FWD, RWD, 0-60 times, gun turrants, ejector seats-I wanted a luxury or near luxary car that does everything pretty well-and it does that, and then some. Plus, it's a Honda product. BMW's, Audi's, Infiniti, MB, Saab's, are all fine cars but I never considered them seriously because the TL grabbed me as soon as I sat in it. Then the ride was great so......
Enjoy your car. Mine comes in two weeks.
Looking now to replace those Turanza's.....

sr_shah

ssamir,
How did the transaction go? Mind posting dealer name and out the door cost with breakdown? I am also from NJ and interested in knowing Tags+Title so I know that dealer isnt hiding profits in the name of TT.

mdhauke

Well then I suggest you change the title of this discussion to allow this type of conversation. We are talking about financing and leases SPECIFIC to the Acura TL and I am sure none of us want to shift through some general thread that has all 30,000 types of cars in there looking for the one or two that deal with the Acura. Sometimes I think you hosts do nothing but try to kill good discussions.

pat

Heh, kill good discussions - yeah, that's what our job is!! :-)

Actually our jobs are to try to make it easy for folks to find what they are looking for by helping conversations stay relatively within their parameters (defined by category and title) and by making sure everyone is aware of all of our resources.

Lots of folks miss the FW&I board and there is a wealth of information there. It's one of the most helpful features of the Town Hall, IMO.

I think I explained the point of the Prices Paid discussions - we want to have a place where folks can easily look up purchase prices others have paid. Leasing ins and outs don't help those folks. Folks who want leasing information can best be served by posting your very helpful exchanges in a discussion specific to leasing.

You can talk about specific leasing details for the TL in our general Acura TL discussion if you'd like - but you'll miss out on Car_man's expertise.

Hope this helps -- this is kinda disruptive, so why don't you email me if we need to discuss it further.

Thanks!

Oh by the way - lots of folks also miss the outstanding "Search This Discussion" feature on the page bar - no need to sift through a zillion posts, just put in your keywords and you'll get links to all relevant posts.

soljc

Just signed a deal in upstate NY for the following:

$30930 (car w/ protection package)
$2242 (tax)
$60 (DMV fees)
$45 (doc fee)

$33291 total (includes 2 free oil changes)

hunt_acura

Guys,
I finalized a deal yesterday for TL with Navi+ protection package (trunk tray,splash guards, Mats,wheel locks) + wing spoiler +7yr/100K warrany for black/ebony and i am picking car 2 days later and guess what for $36,378 (including taxes and everything) and still more for 4.04% APR. I love this car
Best of luck in your search.

kevd

Where are you located? What dealer? Can you tell me what you paid for the car alone?
Thanks

s852

I wonder if the dealer made more money on a undervalued trade-in?

boomer63

soljc: Care to share dealer in upstate NY. They are very limited in the Albany area. My plan was to take a trip to NJ. But the price you list above for a non-navi manual is pretty competitive.

hunt_acura

I got it from cincinati,OH, I can not separate the cost of Car alone, since the deal i got is in package. I will try to break it up as per best of my knowledge
34320 +TAX= Car($3200)+Wingspoiler ($700)+Warranty($1200)+protection package(300)+ doc fee $100 +$20 other fee.

Bad thing is , i have to drive 120 miles to bring it home. But i guess that is okay for the price i paid.
Hope it helps. Cheers.

soljc

Northeast Acura (Latham), dealt with Mark, the internet manager. Had quotes from Heart (Newburgh) and Paragon (Long Island City), but Northeast was willing to deal. I'd guess they have 40+ on the lot, though most are auto.

ssamir

I spoke to "English Guy" at the turnersville acura. I got the deal from him. Actually i dont have clue what the amount will be for TT as I am frm PA. But the prices for non-nav were too good for me which were arnd 30,600 ( includes PP + Destination)

kfhmail

To patHOST and mdhauk,

I think a better solution would be to start a separate thread/discussion for leasing the TL...such as:

 Acura TL - Leasing

This would be a place where folks interesting in leasing could discuss the ins and outs.

I would prefer not seeing the lease discussions in the general Acura TL thread...they DESERVE their own thread. Their should be enough interest (not me).