Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

18889919394102

Comments

  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "I understand all that about getting my car valued and all, but when I repeatedly ask for the keys, and never get them, then it's not an oversight!"

    Of coures it's not. It's more like not being able to see past the end of their noses. As one local body shop owner said to another when speaking about shafting friends. 'I don't worry about it. There's always another friend around the corner.' With these types of dealers, substitute the word customer. They obviously don't think about repeat business. These guys probably won't stick around that long anyway.
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    Well good for you. You are the kind of person that should get the first and follow on sales if you treat the customer as a person and not just a number.
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "Now if that happened here where I live less than .01% of the population would have heard about it."

    Ah, but the internet can be an equalizer there if people post their experiences. That doesn't go away either.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Ah yes but the internet is such a big vast area that one person posting an issue that they had with Joe Sixpack Motors would get lost in the millions and millions of posts and websites out there.

    I live in a metro area of 8 to 9 million people, how many of them come to edmunds to research a car let alone get info on a dealership? I would suspect very few percentage wise.

    Case in point, we had a dealership here that was really bad and got some pretty bad press in both the newspapers and the TV (back before the internet) yet they stayed in business for decades. Everyone back then had access to TV and newspapers.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • micosilvermicosilver Member Posts: 212
    This percentage goes up when you are dealing with more expensive cars. Over 70% people that shop for German cars - research online, and bad reputation can kill you. There are wevsites for people to vent and complain about bad business practices - Yelp.com, ripoffreport.com, etc, and a word goes out.
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "vent and complain about bad business practices - Yelp.com, ripoffreport.com, etc"

    And planetfeedback.com where you can send a report to the top level of a company. I had a personal, page long response from Cadillac in a few hours.

    Any others anyone?
  • tsxtradertsxtrader Member Posts: 1
    Thank you for this forum. We purchased a certified 2004 Acura TSX with 13,000 miles on it. It's my wife's car and she only drives it to the grocery, etc. So, now there are 21,000 miles on it. New tires. Premium Wheels. We also have the transferable warranty It's in a wonderful shape, a great car, but we need something more practical. . . maybe for less than the trade in value. I have 2 questions:

    1-- One week after we bought the car, someone slammed a car door into the rear passenger side fender. It's not terrible, but it's a clear "depression". Should I have it repaired before presenting it as a trade in? Also, there are some pinpoints of rust (we bought in Hawaii, now in WA), should I have those treated?

    2. We're looking at used cars at prices under the value of this car. How does that work when negotiating with a dealer?

    Thank you very much in advance! I appreciate any comments and advice you may have. I have never traded in a car. Usually I just run them for a hundred + miles.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    2. We're looking at used cars at prices under the value of this car. How does that work when negotiating with a dealer?

    I myself have never done this but I have heard of people, even had a friend that I worked with years ago, that did this. When a dealer knows you’re not satisfied with what you have and are “trading down” you will not be getting anywhere close to its value. In the case of the guy I knew, the dealer said, “your car and $200 and you’ve got a deal”. He walked and then sold the car himself.

    I have never traded in a car.

    Now isn’t the time to start. Do what my friend did.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "Now isn’t the time to start. Do what my friend did."

    I agree. This gives you more options on what you buy, and you can also look private. You can also spend a few bucks and give the vehicle a computerized diagnostic check. If there are problems, you can negotiate the price down or insist that they be fixed.

    Have you checked out paintless dent repair? If it's a soft edged dent this may work well, but let them look at it and give you an estimate and opinion as to how good they can get it.

    If you are moving up, and have a buyer for your car, you may be able to run it through the dealer as if a trade in, then you only pay sales tax on the difference, and the buyer of yours pays on that purchase price. May not work in all states. AZ didn't charge sales tax if you bought through a private party. That may have changed. I like that, as the dealer has one less advantage to get you to trade as opposed to a doing private sale, where you will no doubt do better. Clean, wax, Armor All etc yours first in any case. Tires too. Pressure wash the engine compartment, let it dry, then lightly mist it with Armor All. It will migrate and it will look great. Use upholstery cleaner on the seats if they are soiled. Carpets too. Spray stain is available also if badly soiled. I even mist an area before waxing it for a deepened color. Don't forget to clean the trunk and insides if the windows. You can wash the wheel wells, and spray them with Armor All too. It may look so sharp, you will decide to keep it. It worked when I did this for my dads car. He thought he had a new one. ;-)

    Then a dealer can't tell you he has to discount your car for clean up or average condition. You don't need more things to negotiate when you go there. Acting like you don't give a rats [non-permissible content removed] if you trade or not doesn't hurt either.

    It sounds like much of this won't apply to yours, but you will be surprised at how much nicer it looks when just using Armor All on anything black, like around the windows, wiper arms and trim. Even reflectors, headlights and tail lights. I even spray the muffler if it's black and visible. If in doubt, try it.
  • driverightdriveright Member Posts: 91
    Pressure wash the engine compartment

    I've read that pressure washing the engine area can cause problems if the water gets into places it shouldn't. Also, a dealer may think that evidence of a mechanical problem is being removed.

    By the way, I enjoy your posts.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    You also have to be careful with where that water hits. Its high pressure anywhere from 1,800 to 4,000 PSI (depending on the model). thats enough to damage wires, plugs, seals and the many plastic and rubber parts that are exposed in the engine compartment.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "I've read that pressure washing the engine area can cause problems if the water gets into places it shouldn't. Also, a dealer may think that evidence of a mechanical problem is being removed."

    I don't think you will have any problem on a relatively recent vehicle. I have my own pressure washer and use it on the engines with no problems. If there is oil or grease, use a spray degreaser, like Gunk first on a warm engine. And if you want to play it safe, start with the engine warm - not hot. This will dry things out faster if something should get wet. I wouldn't worry about it. If you would get a slight miss, it should clear up shortly. BTW, do you have towing coverage on your insurance? It doesn't cost much, and a whole lot cheaper than AAA. And, you can use whomever you want. Just pay them and turn in the bill.

    If you have old plug wires or deteriorated spark plug boots, water could cause a minor problem until the water dries. Years past, I have had starting or missing problems after a pressure wash, and I would pop the distributor cap and wipe it out. Today, they probably use o-rings to seal everything.

    If that didn't do it, there could be some water in the plug boots. I just pulled em off and blew them out and good to go.

    Even if you get water on electrical components, it shouldn't hurt them IF you let them dry thoroughly before any power is applied. It's the water that shorts things out. I'm not talking under the hood. That should be no problem.

    "Also, a dealer may think that evidence of a mechanical problem is being removed."

    That's the last thing I would worry about. If he would comment, just tell him you're fussy with you're stuff. Tell him that it should be obvious that it is in top shape. If an engine was really cruddy, there will be telltale sign a pro would be able to pick up. I'm sure yours is not.

    Thanks on the comment on the posts. It's good to know if it's helpful or interesting to someone. I try to post tips that can help people. I learned the hard way. No sense someone else should have to.

    Jerry
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Clean, wax, Armor All etc yours first in any case. Tires too. Pressure wash the engine compartment, let it dry, then lightly mist it with Armor All. It will migrate and it will look great.

    I agree with you that a car should be [non-permissible content removed]/Span when selling it. Especially to an individual who will appreciate it. Dealers tend to ignore your efforts in an attempt to give you a much lower price and their excuse is they have to go over it anyway. This is yet another reason why I haven't traded in a car since the 60's.

    I will strongly disagree with you about the use of Armor All. I used this stuff back in the 80's and it destroyed the dash top on my 80' Park Ave. It turned the grey dash top purple and caused it to crack. I thought this was the case and when I went to a couple trim shops to have a new dash top installed (which I couldn't have done because no one made an exact fit for this car and I would have had to settle for a "universal" cover which I didn't want). When both guys looked at it they immediately said, "I see you've been using Armor All, we see this all the time". I only saw it once and that was enough for me!!!

    They may have changed their formulation by now but since I had this bad experience with it, I stay away from everything with that name on the bottle as if it were the plague. I've used Lexol products with no problem.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Just make sure that the engine is not running when you hit it with the pressure washer. If it is water can get sucked in then you are screwed. Also make sure all of you fluid caps are tight before you start.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    Are you guys sure about using a pressure washer on a motor? The thought makes me nervous with all of the electronic components today.
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "I will strongly disagree with you about the use of Armor All. I used this stuff back in the 80's and it destroyed the dash top on my 80' Park Ave."

    You make a good point. I guess I use the term generically. Where do you live? My buddy in Phoenix said the same thing and showed me the door panels in his truck. That was in 95, but he had used it much earlier. I suspect it had something to do with the heat. I live in Minnesota, and have been using it on everything since I bought 5 gallons of the stuff for a great price at SAMS because the cap was cracked. (I'll buy almost anything if the price is right ;-} ) I have never had a hint of a problem, and mine must have been purchased around 1980. He used Turtle Wax 2001 instead.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Detail shop does it all the time on trade ins. Now granted they are carefull and don't cut loose with with 3000 psi on it.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Where do you live? My buddy in Phoenix said the same thing and showed me the door panels in his truck. That was in 95, but he had used it much earlier. I suspect it had something to do with the heat.

    I live in the Pittsburgh area and this is where the problem started. When I moved to South Carolina in 92 the problem had accelerated to the point that I wanted to have a replacement cover installed by a trim shop but like I previously said nobody made one for my 80' Park Ave. So I had to live with it until I retired it in 97' (transmission started to slip).

    Yes, I had that car for quite a few years. As I've said before, if I knew that thing was going to be that good, I'd have bought a half dozen of them. Best car I've ever owned.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • plankfaceplankface Member Posts: 1
    I have heard from a lot of people that Super Bowl Sunday is supposed to be a great time to buy a new car, but I can't seem to find any kind of data to back this up. Does anyone know anything about this? Would it only be true if the Super Bowl was still on the last weekend in January? My husband + I have been researching cars for about 6 mos. and I would love to take advantage of this opportunity if there's any truth to it.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    It has been so slow in the past for us that now we just close.

    It is all part of the perception that if there is a major event going on then that is a good time to buy a big ticket item because sales may be slow on that particular day.

    In 15 years though I have never heard SB Sunday refereed to a great day to get a good retail deal.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    In 15 years though I have never heard SB Sunday refereed to a great day to get a good retail deal.

    I thought any day would be good for getting a retail deal? You guys insist on the customer paying invoice or something?

    I would think Super Bowl Sunday would be a bad day to try to buy. You'd get bad service because the salesman would be wanting to get back to the game. Would probably throw in an extra $475 "obbservation fee" for making him miss the game winning fieldgoal. :P
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    LOL, Jipster I was talking about retail sales in general.

    "Imports are superior"
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Don't know about retail sales, but when I lived in CA, I can tell you that SB Sunday (and Mother's Day) were great days to book a tee time.

    Course is practically empty on those days.

    Joel, you are a stand up guy to follow through with your "Imports are superior" tagline for the week.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,348
    You didn't read the fine print. For Joel, that only includes Volvo and Mazda!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    You didn't read the fine print. For Joel, that only includes Volvo and Mazda

    That's correct. Since most Toyotas and Hondas are made in the U.S... they are not imported. Therego, they are not superior. Mazdas on the other hand... are. :)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    That's correct. Since most Toyotas and Hondas are made in the U.S... they are not imported. Therego, they are not superior. Mazdas on the other hand... are.

    The Mazda6 is manufacturing in Michigan (which still qualifies as the US) while the Fulan is made in Mexico (which is becoming part of California and Texas).
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    "Imports are superior"

    Hey "good sport". Look at it like this, the week's almost over. :)

    Some day I hope that statement will be laughable, like it would have been waaay back.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,200
    If I order a car how much money am I required to come up with at the time of the purchase? I know that you have to sign the contract agreeing to pay the full amount but when do you have to actually hand over the money, at signing or at delivery? :confuse:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    We shake your hand and tell you that we will see you in 6-8 weeks.

    If you want we will take your trade in now so you can get current value.

    The only time we require a deposit is if you order some wacky odd ball piece that we think we would have problems selling, other then that it is just another unit in stock.

    "Imports are superior"
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I was thinking about pointing out a loop hole that we never said what the font of the tag line had to be but decided to let it pass. :D

    "Imports are superior"
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    That was my experience as well when ordering a Jeep Grand Cherokee a few months ago. One dealership didn't require a deposit, and the other one wanted $100.
  • janssonerjanssoner Member Posts: 9
    I have a 2005 Pacifica Smart-Buy (because of the Smart-Buy I paid full sales tax on). I am now buying (cash) a 2008 Town & Country, Chrysler/Dealer is going to "eat" my last five payments, which I think is a good deal. My question is: Is this really a trade-in (since I technically own it (have the title)) and so my sales tax (NY) should be based on Price of New Car minus Value of Old Car? If so what is the value, since that never entered the discussion? Is it my balloon payment or book-value?
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    I would need a definition of "Smart Buy". How can you own a vehicle (have the title) and yet still have payments remaining on it?

    See if you can answer those for me and I can get a better idea of what's going on.

    Thanks,

    -moo
  • janssonerjanssoner Member Posts: 9
    The smart-buy is something that Chrysler (and other manufacturers) came up with to counter a NY (and some other states) law that states that the title holder is responsible for an accident. I guess with a lease Chrysler held the title. So it is basically the same as a lease except at the end I have a final balloon payment that I do not have to make (I can turn the car in). The big disadvantage is that I pay full sales tax on the full price of the car. An advantage is that I could theoretically sell the car if I could get someone to pay the what I still owed. But of course my balloon payment was to be 19,000 and my current KBB price is 15,000.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Thanks for the clarification. To the best of my understanding, here is the situation.

    Since this is functioning as a lease, then the vehicle will be returned to Chrysler. They are paying the remaining payments and that vehicle plays no other role in your next transaction. If you WERE trading it in, then it would saves sales tax for you. (Depending on state law.)

    The value of your current vehicle does not matter since you are not trading it in. I would get clarification from your salesperson, but I think this is pretty cut and dry.

    Hope that helps.
  • janssonerjanssoner Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for the quick reply!
    That is pretty much what I expected and that is also why I will never do a smart-buy again. I paid probably 3 times the sales tax of a lease. I never even noticed unto I was looking for the title and looked at the papers, I was just looking at what my monthly payments would be.
    I did ask my salesman, of course he had no idea! I just wanted to know before I went in to actually pay.
    Thanks again! I'll let you know if the result is happily different.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Are you saying that the "smart buy" is not so smart? :P

    NY seems to be a little bit different than at least GA. GA only has you paying taxes on the payments, not the residual as well.

    It sounds like you may have taken advantage of a loyalty program from Chrysler (the last payments being eaten).

    Ahh well, you live you learn. Good luck with your next purchase!
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Smart buys... Were not that smart for the buyer. They were a gaf... I have had friends that worked for Chrysler and they said say if the customer wanted to be at $250 on $35,000 vehicle no problem do a smartbuy. The balloon payment would be adjusted. I think this guy is considering his registration as his title.

    Al;so a smart buy works like a lease but everything is registered under the customers name. All I know is from whatI have heard other sales people say. But what I do remeber them saying the most is that if someone is in a Smart buy they were ussualy screwed.

    Sorry guy

    GP
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,348
    Well, he basically bought (financed) a 2005 pacifico, and got out of it by dumping his negative equity off on Chrysler.

    If he had taken a standard loan, he may have been rolling that neg eq. into his next loan.

    That is the only real advantage to smart pay. It really is an interest only/baloon payment loan, except Chrysler was guarantying a trade in value at inception (the baloon amount).

    Not as advantageous as a lease (unless you avoid the bank origination fee) because of the tax, but at the time, just about no one was writing loans in NY so it was the next best thing.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • janssonerjanssoner Member Posts: 9
    No I actually have a New York State Title (I also of course have the registration), that says "One lien attached".
  • janssonerjanssoner Member Posts: 9
    Yes, the salesman said that Chrysler would eat three payments and the dealership would eat two.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,626
    It sounds to me like it could go either way... If you have the title, and you are trading it in, then it seems you'll get a credit against taxes on the new vehicle..

    However, if the dealership is turning it back to Chrysler Financial, then maybe not.. I think it's all based on how the paperwork is filed..

    regards,
    kyfdx
    visiting host

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • janssonerjanssoner Member Posts: 9
    Thanks, I figure it can't hurt to ask. Also figure the dealership can't try and cheat me because the money goes to NYS and this can't be the first situation like this with all of the smart-buys they wrote over the last few years (I think the law has been changed now and they are back to straight leases).
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    I think the proof is in them paying the last payments. If they were treating it as a trade, then a value would show on his paperwork and it would show as a trade. Because this "SmartBuy" is for all intensive purposes a lease, then I'm sure that it is not included.

    Again, he just needs to clarify with the incompetent salesperson. :sick: :D

    -moo
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    I have a smartbuy on an '05 Pacifica, too.

    I'm not sure what the problem is. I guess if you paid tax on the full thing, its not so great. As it is, I traded a $20k car on it, so I only paid tax on $8k no matter what. PLUS, the term came with a 0.75% interest rate for the 3 years. I guess I'll see what happens when its time to turn it back in, but as long as it really does act like a lease and they allow me to drop the keys and leave, I can't see where I got screwed.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • janssonerjanssoner Member Posts: 9
    I think if you look at your receipt you will see you paid sales tax on Price of Pacifica - trade-in. Which if you were leasing it would have been Price - Trade-in - Residual value. If you go to the end of your Smart-Buy you should be fine, you might have to pay a final termination fee, unless of course you re-lease/buy etc from Chrysler.
    Good luck.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    yes, I believe its a $350 termination fee. No biggie. Less than fees I've seen with other leases.

    And, yes, $8k was the difference between the price ($28k; i believe $36 or $38k msrp) and the trade-in ($20k).

    But I see what folks mean about the taxes had I not had a trade-in. My residual is like $17k, so that would have been an extra $1190 in taxes if it weren't for my trade. I'm not sure, but maybe the ultralow rate would still have made it an attractive option, though.(?)

    there is still a slight possibility we will buy it out at the end of the term (8 months from now), depending greatly on chrysler's willingness to negotiate.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    It seems to me that if one has the title, one owns the vehicle and should get the sales tax credit for whatever it's worth (what's owed on a car has nothing to do with its value). Can't see how what the dealer later does with the vehicle has anything to do with it.
  • janssonerjanssoner Member Posts: 9
    If you plan on keeping the Pacifica, try and negotiate that 17K downward. Check the trade-in value (KBB.com), I'm sure it's less than that. My residual was 19k and my KBB value was 15K. If you want something new, they are more than willing to work with you. They ate my 5 last payments plus the 1500 rebate for me.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I'm not sure what the problem is. I guess if you paid tax on the full thing, its not so great. As it is, I traded a $20k car on it, so I only paid tax on $8k no matter what. PLUS, the term came with a 0.75% interest rate for the 3 years. I guess I'll see what happens when its time to turn it back in, but as long as it really does act like a lease and they allow me to drop the keys and leave, I can't see where I got screwed.

    I agree, I am not familiar with the program but if you can truly walk away at the end I can't see how you loose. Especially if as one poster said that you could increase the balloon in order to reduce your monthly payment.

    If that is the case and I knew I was going to term at the end I would roll every penny to the balloon that could to get the lowest possible payment allowed by the program.

    That all sounds to easy, there has to be a piece missing to the puzzle here.
Sign In or Register to comment.