Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

japga

Edmunds lists the current incentives for a Mercedes CLS as $2,000 in marketing support. Also under leasing incentives it indicates $2,000 lease cash and $2,438 that the dealer may contribute towards the lease payments. Does this mean that when negotiating a lease, there is $2,000 in marketing support being provided to the dealer, PLUS $2,000 in lease cash (or is the $2,000 in lease cash equal to the marketing support)? Also, is the $2,438 in optional dealer contribution money that the dealer receives back from the Mercedes or is that just a suggested amount that the dealer should discount the car? Basically, I'm trying to figure out whether I should be subtracting $2,000, $4,000 or $6,438 from invoice when trying to determine the true dealer cost in the vehicle. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

plekto

HEre's how I understand it.

- $2000 off(incentive - applies to lease or purchase)
- 1.9% financing is also available last I checked, btw.

- $2000 off if you lease through Mercedes directly.(expect to pay nearly this in extra interest though compared to a good credit union)
- $2438 in lower initial down payment.(ie - since Mercedes determines whatever it wants for a down payment on the lease... it's marketing.)

The smart money is on the 1.9% purchase, IMO. Even though it's 72 months, 1.9% won't come around again for a long time once the economy crashes.

Of course, the best "deal" is to get a 3 year old certified one for $15K less.

jo14

Just thought I'd give an update -

I picked up my new silver 2008 Camry LE today. Made the decision finally after visits to 3 different Toyota dealers to test drive etc and went back to one on Sunday and made a deal. Went with the 08 due to the $1,000 rebate and overall lower cost which kept the sales tax and the excise taxes (which we have to pay here in Massachusetts every year) a little lower.

Paid $18,103 for basic LE with carpets and mats excluding document fees and taxes

MSRP was $21,075 plus 199 for mats and 660 for delivery for a total MSRP of 21,934

Thanks for advice and Good luck to all!

imidazol97

>carpets and mats excluding document fees and taxes
MSRP was $21,075 plus 199 for mats

I assume the mats were a dealer profit item they put in?
How much were the document fees?

jmonroe

Thanks for advice and Good luck to all!

I assume you did your research and got a good price. You're the one that has to be satisfied and it sounds like you are,so, that's a good deal.

Enjoy your new ride and don't continue to shop now. Those screamer adds will mess you up because they never provide all the details and they always sound GREAT.

Thanks for getting back to us and telling us how you did. You're one of the very few that has.

Again, good luck.

jmonroe

waynesgame

This is my first post. I've been lurking a few weeks reading some funny, some crazy, but all informative kinds of threads. You folks give sound advice and I could use a glass. Please let me know if I sound like I'm on the right Jedi path...here's my situation.

I'm in the market for a late model Cadillac Escalade. I'll use public trans so gas mileage isn't a big deal. I've found a dealership about 25miles away with 3 Escalades with decent miles and good shape. I haven't visited the dealer yet, but I've emailed a sales rep and the quotes have begun.

The Stats:
2005 Cadillac Escalade
53,843 miles
Price: $24,878

TMV: Trade In - $24,249 Private Party - $26,567 Retail - $28,413

According to retail he's quoting me a pretty good number. But something is fishy. If the TMV is correct then the dealer is only making a few hundred dollars...and I know this is UNREALISTIC!

From working as a salesrep for a year when I was right out of high school I know there's some gross between the 24.8 they're listing this puppy at and the dealer cost of the vehicle.

My problem is I want to negotiate from a wise position, but based on my research the dealer is already giving me a good number. I want to assume the dealers cost on this vehicle is say...$21.5, but I'd like confirmation. Confirmation that yes, there's always room, yes you can assume there's at least 3k worth of profit padding that quoted price, would go a long way of helping me stick to my guns during the negotiation process.

Am I on the right track? Any insight, suggestions or bucket of reality to pour over my head would be greatly appreciated.

I don't want to be a laydown on a bad price. I really want this truck and it'll be too easy for the salesman to put me together if I'm not sure of my position.

Thanks in advance folks!

jipster

Well, TMV isn't always accurate, or a true reflection of current market forces. But, the miles are a bit high, which could account for about $800 in price reduction. The vehicle could have been in an accident. Do a Carfax. Larger cars aren't selling as well. It could have been sitting on the lot for awhile, and has been drastically discounted to get it moved. If everything checks out well, I'd do what you suggested. Start out at $3k less than the asking price and try to hold as much of that as you can... never hurts to try.

cccompson

Take a look at what folks are paying and/or bidding on ebay for Escalades. Be sure to review the "Completed Lisings" section. It's as close to real time value as we can get.

mikefm58

I like autotrader.com as well. I've seen Edmunds and the other online guides all over the place, sometimes high, sometimes low. My guess, with gas prices at all time highs, any gas guzzling SUV, the online guides will be real high.

55396

Here is a note from a friend. This is how he managed to have the toys he wanted. Wife didn't work either. He had to learn how to do some things himself, as I did, but look at the payoff one can have. My wife didn't work outside the home either. As with Mike, we felt it was the best way to raise the kids. There are trade offs, but it can be done. Note that he said 'profits' when he sold. He may have meant proceeds, but if you buy right, and improve the product, you can many times use the word profit.

"I've bought and sold a lot of old cars, mainly because I liked them and partially to turn a buck. Every time I sold one, I took the profit and put it towards the mortgage to get the house paid off sooner. Once I got the wife her 71 Mach 1 about 15-20 years ago, I've had the green light to get whatever I wanted. Well, within financial reason, of course. I only attached pictures of cars we still have, not any of the ones I've sold through the years. The wife has her 71 Mach 1 351 4V and her 08 Saleen convertible with 575HP. My son has his 87 Turbo Coupe (that I painted) and my daughter has her 96 Mustang convertible (that we are swapping a 4.6L into right now). I've got my 69 Torino 428 Cobra Jet that I bought in 78 and painted a long time ago, my 03 100th Anniversary Harley-Davidson Heritage Classic, my 03 100th Anniversary Harley-Davidson F150 with a supercharged 5.4L, my 57 Custom that I am putting a 429 in, a couple 34 Fords (not pictured) and a 65 Mustang convertible (not pictured). Like most car guys, I've had a ton of them, but these are what's left....

We've done everything on one income as we wanted Judy to be home with the kids while they were growing up. Now that they're both in college, she just got her first full time job a year or two ago. I did a lot of side jobs painting cars for people. I did them all, besides Fords, Chevies, Mopars, I did Buicks, Vettes, Lexus, Subaru, Hyandai, I'd paint anything for enough cash. I did a lot of buying/selling old Fords too which worked out very well for me. That stuff is all cash, which really helps. Work 8-10 hours at work, then head out to the shop for 3-4 hours. They were long days, but the extra cash helped. It was worth doing it, so Judy could stay home with the kids. We never bought new cars either. We always bought older cars with 100K on them for pennies on the dollar. That is huge when you figure it out over 25 years. Our Fords have really treated us well over the years too. All brand loyalty stuff aside, I am sure GM and Mopars would have been fine too. My dad was a die hard Ford man, but when he got serious, he used to say they were all good if you treated them right. Just take care of them, do the maint and you'll be fine. I honestly just don't see how people can knock US quality as my cost of ownership has been awesome over the years. I just recently bought some new cars, but those have been collector vehicles that I'll never sell. Our kids probably will, but we won't sell them. Hey, regarding that Saleen, I am waiting to drive it too. The weather has been too crappy. Maybe it will warm up some day...."

snakeweasel

I think he means new for him.

55396

"I think he means new for him."

Mike explains. And, yes, he did mean 'profits'.

" I consider them to be collector vehicles for me. I don't plan on arguing what their "collectibility" (if that's a word) is going to be 25 years from now. My 03 Harley truck is a "collectible" to me because I like it and will never sell it. That doesn't mean it will be a Barrett-Jackson featured vehicle in a few years. That's not why I bought it. I bought it because it's a 100th Anniversary Edition Ford partnered with Harley. It was an excuse for me to finally bite the bullet and actually buy something new. Everyone has their thing. If we all liked the same cars, it would be pretty boring. That's one thing I found on the internet, lots of big talkers. That's fine. I know what I like and I know what I have to do to get it, work hard and use my head. By the way, in my paragraph, I actually did mean "profits" from my sales, not proceeds. I bought a 56 Ford hardtop for $3500, drove it 5000 miles in one summer miles and sold it for $6000. Bought a 55 Ford ragtop for $9000, drove it for a couple years and sold it for $13,500. Bought a 56 Ford convertible for $11K, enjoyed it for ten years and sold it for $18K. I've done a ton of lower dollar deals too where I made decent money. If you buy right and sell right, it all adds up. I stick with what I know and do okay. One of my "worst" deals was buying a 64 Galaxie for $50 (yes, $50, it was a beast), then spending $4000 on the restoration and selling it ten years later for $4500. I had a guy laugh at me and say I only made $500 and did a lot of work on it. That's true, but we drove it for 10 years, went to car shows, cruises, picnics, Chicago, Iowa, northern MN, etc. We had a blast in that car as a family and I still made a profit when I sold it. I asked the same guy who laughed at me how much money he made golfing last year. He said that doesn't count because golfing is his hobby. I said that cars were my hobby too and I actually made decent money on it. Like I said, everyone has their thing...."

obyone

Bought a '64 Galaxie 500 2DRHDTP with the 390 for $2500 cash new in 1964. Big hunk of iron that had bad gas mileage and a 4bbl Carter carb that no one could tune making for hard starts every morning. Just one of those cars that I wanted to forget about. Traded it for a '72 Plymouth Satellite...that's another story.

jmonroe

Traded it for a '72 Plymouth Satellite...that's another story.

Talk about jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

I knew someone that had a 72' Plymouth Satellite. Before he could unload it without taking a total bath, the salt here in South Western PA took care of that in a little over 3 years.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

"...Traded it for a '72 Plymouth Satellite..."

I had a '69 Satellite as my first car. I loved it. Beat the thing to death on a daily basis and it would not die. Lots of dumb teen-age memories.

Oh yea, by the time I sold it for $100 in 1980 you could look down between your feet and see the road going by. They did tend to rust in the northeast.

jmonroe

I had a '69 Satellite as my first car.

They did tend to rust in the northeast.

That's putting it nicely. They dissolved.

jmonroe

55396

Hard to believe Chrysler is still arounf after the crap they built way back when. Then there was the Pinto fireball and the Maverick seive.

I tried to make em last longer. I had a 66 Chrysler Windsor 2 Dr Hardtop. Beautiful dark blue/green. I modified a pump up weed sprayer that had the older small brass nozzle, by extending the wand. The distance from the tail light to the door post was like 5 feet, and I needed to reach way up. I took a mixtire of used oil mixed with diesel so it would be thin enough to spray, and coated all interior panels on my cars. Even spiked it with lindseed oil, but that is messy stuff if you don't get the excess off. Worked though. Had a buddy who had a body shop. Had a full time job replacing Mopar fenders. Ah, the good old days. Hah.

jmonroe

I took a mixtire of used oil mixed with diesel so it would be thin enough to spray, and coated all interior panels on my cars.

Man...this is hitting close to home. Years ago I worked with a guy that did that.

Worked though.

Yeah...that's what he said. So it must be true. :surprise:

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

"...Worked though..."

Which means it wasn't that difficult to rust proof a car back then. Makes you wonder why the Domestics (and for that matter the offshore mfg.'s) didn't do a better job.

Maybe they figured that the American buyer would just keep buying junk and never wise up. I bet they don't think that now.

BTW, as bad as my Plymouth rusted, it ran for 158K with fewer repairs that it should have had. Teen-agers should not be allowed to drive.

jmonroe

I averaged a traffic stop every 3 months and a ticket every 4 traffic stops. By the time I graduated high school I think I had been pulled over about 15 times and had about 4 tickets (i think).

They were probably too nice, but I did have to pay for my gas and I ended up footing the bill for at 2 of those motors that I blew.

Nice isn’t the word for it and to be honest I’m not sure what word you would use to describe your parents generosity. Maybe that’s the word I was looking for.

If I did even ONE of the things you mentioned I wouldn’t have driven again until I was on my own. My Father told me the rules before I was at the driving age and I knew he meant it from the way he was with other things.

No second chances in that house when he said something like that.

jmonroe

55396

Big Al described my life. jmonroe described my kids life.

I learned that my parents didn't have a clue how to raise kids, and I could play them like a fine instrument, so I knew all the tricks when I raised mine. I also knew what to teach them, something I never got. I knew that if they were like me, I'd have to kill em.

"I am still awed that sophmores are [were] allowed to drive."

Yep. And now they want to arm students. We have gone totally mad.

wallst32

When the dealer advertises a special on a car at reduced MSRP, is this a sign there may be fault with the car? Something that obviously doesn't affect functionality, such as cosmetic defects?

I'm looking at a new vehicle where the asking price was lowred by about 8% from MSRP. I would imagine this means the dealer is willing to go much lower.

obyone

When a dealer advertises a special on a car it is usually a loss leader meant to attract people into their dealership. A few lucky people will be there in time to buy it but more likely it will already be sold by the time you get there. And no it doesn't mean he will go much lower.

cccompson

An eight percent advertised discount is not, generally speaking, anything extraordinary. The price may or may not be negotiable depending on model. It would help if you provided some details.

british_rover

It would be on one of my cars. We have no incentives and there is only about a five to six percent markup from invoice to MSRP.

jmonroe

When the dealer advertises a special on a car at reduced MSRP, is this a sign there may be fault with the car? Something that obviously doesn't affect functionality, such as cosmetic defects?

I doubt that there is anyting wrong with the car. Anything cosmetic you should be able to spot. Any mechanical problems will be covered by the new car warranty. So I wouldn't concern myself with these things.

I'm looking at a new vehicle where the asking price was lowred by about 8% from MSRP.

This is what you should be concerned about. You'll have to do your research so you can recognize a good price. Like 'cc' said, an 8% discount ain't nothin special. For the fun of it I went to Edmunds new car info and I looked at three basic 4 cyl. sedans and all of them showed a TMV of around an 8% discount. And the TMV price is only the "average" price paid in a given area. Therefore, knowing the facts should allow you to do better than average.

I would imagine this means the dealer is willing to go much lower.

Only doing your research will determine this.

Good luck and let us know how you did. We only think we're know-it-alls here but we'd like to learn more. :shades:

jmonroe

cccompson

BR, your product line is the exception to a great many rules!

verdugo

We have no incentives and there is only about a five to six percent markup from invoice to MSRP.

According to edmunds, the LR2 has close to 10% markup between invoice and MSRP. I didn't check the other models.

british_rover

That can't be right. Last time I checked the spread for the various models only a fully loaded Supercharged Range Rover approached the 10% mark.

verdugo

I was surprised too. This is straight from Edmunds. Zipcode 95827.

LR2 HSE
MSRP 35,375
Invoice 32,191

After adding destination, the technology, lighting, and cold climate package Edmund says:
MSRP: $41,400
Invoice: $37,444
TVM: $38,977

british_rover

The invoice amount is wrong. Depending on the invoice date they are off between 300 and 800 dollars.

grandtotal

The invoice amount is wrong. Depending on the invoice date they are off between 300 and 800 dollars.

How many times have we collectively heard a dealer say that?

micosilver

How many times have we collectively heard a dealer say that?

Don't ask a question of you cannot hadle the answer.
Edmunds itself ahs a disclaimer that their invoice does not include regional fees that vary by area.

grandtotal

Didn't you spot the ?

musicmanmu

Here's the situation:

I drive about 650/week commuting to my job.

I drive a 2005 Envoy (I can squeeze 20 MPG out of it, but 18 is more common).

I need some cargo space because I haul my music gear fairly often.

Should I:

Trade in the Envoy and buy a new, smaller car (Forester, RAV4, Matrix, etc.) and use it for everything, or,

Should I keep the Envoy and buy a small car only for commuting? This car would have to be reliable (120 miles a day roundtrip - all interstate) and be in the $6 to $7k range. And, I'd like this commuter car to easily exceed 30 MPG on the highway.

I know that SUV values are falling like rain right now, and I still owe $8,000 on my Envoy. Edmunds TMV is about $11,000, but what would that be in this market?

Any help/advice is appreciated!

qbrozen

And, I'd like this commuter car to easily exceed 30 MPG on the highway.

Well, as I'm sure you are aware, the Foresters, RAV4s, and CRVs of the world ain't achieving that. I'm not sure a Matrix can, either (although I haven't checked).

But I guess if you only have 1 car, you figure a compromise is in order.

Thing with just the 1 car, though, is that you aren't looking at a big gain in mileage. Let's say you get 25 mpg. Just doesn't seem like a big enough jump over 20 mpg in your Envoy to justify taking the trade hit. You are looking at an average savings of about $100/mo in gas.

I like your second option, but just remember to take into account the extra insurance costs.

55396

Should I:

Trade in the Envoy and buy a new, smaller car (Forester, RAV4, Matrix, etc.) and use it for everything, or,



Well, will your fuel savings override the increase in license fees, sales tax, insurance, interest, depreciation, etc. not to mention the lickin you will take from a dealer who doesn't want another out of favor dog on his lot, so, he will probably low ball the latest auction results on a vehicle like yours, and you know they aren't bringing much when everyone is dumping them.

How much room do you need for your equipment? If you can find a good solid used economy car, you may have savings, but now you have another set of the above expenses, plus a possibility of increased repair costs. You would keep the mileage low on your primary vehicle though, and it offers you the option of finding a buyer who will pay a decent price for it. 18-20 MPG vs 30? Is there that much savings involved?

suydam

You will definitely get over 30 mpg highway in the Matrix, and it has lots of room for gear. You also will get an insurance break if you buy a new car for the first year in many areas.

The longer you hold onto the Envoy the less it will be worth. Gas isn't going down anytime soon.

plekto

I second this, but the Vibe is often available with bigger incentives, especially since GM is bleeding out.

There's also the ugly looking but functional first gen( up to 2007) Xb. It gets good MPG (30-35) and can carry a lot of stuff. The new one is almost 600 lbs heavier and it really suffers.(25mpg is common - ouch!)

The Fit also is good, because of the way the seats fold up to allow for much taller items to be carried around.

musicmanmu

That's the million dollar question! LOL...I am not sure that a second vehicle would actually save me money in the long run. I think the one car option is the way to go for me for now. And right now, it looks like the current KBB value on my car is about $7,700. I currently owe $8,500+ on it. So there you go.

How much room do I need? Well, the Envoy's luggage capacity is around 40 cubic feet. 80% of the time, I don't even fill all that up. It's rare that I even have to flatten the backseats, so I'm thinking that a vehicle that has cubic feet of cargo space in the 60s will do the job for me.

And as for MPG savings, here's my quick math, assuming $4/gallon gas:

22 gallon tank
18 mpg average
$88 per fill up
2 fillups per week (est)
$176/wk in gas

Okay - this week I've been driving my dad's 2000 Outback. After 2 fillups, I've been averaging about 28 MPG. So,

16.9 gallon tank
28 MPG average
$67.6 per fill up
2 fillups per week (est)
$135.2/wk in gas

That's about $163/month in savings just in gas. Right now, that's about half of my car loan payment, so yes, that's a significant savings for me.

I agree with whomever said you can probably squeeze 30 MPG out of the new Matrix, so that would make the savings even greater (of course, that would shrink if/when gas went up).

Right now, I'm thinking about the Scion XB (the redesign - the old one is just too ugly for me) and the new Matrix or Vibe. Any other thoughts on vehicle choices?

qbrozen

Well, for one thing, I would suggest you try to sell you Envoy yourself. an '05 Envoy for $8500? Sounds like a great deal to me (of course, I don't know all the details).

musicmanmu

Good point - although I'm skeptical of who would even be interested in it in this day and age! The only downside would be the gap between finalizing the sale and getting a new ride - I'd have to figure out how the heck I'd get around for that undetermined amount of time.

That being said, anyone interested in a 2005 GMC Envoy SLE 4WD?

Actually, a really great car. Has a Viper alarm/remote start, about 96k miles.

british_rover

For a second economy car I would recommend a Ford Focus five door hatch or wagon. With a manual either will easily get over 30 mpg and since they are domestics the resale is poor and you can buy one for under 10,000 dollars. Pick up a CPO focus at a Ford dealer and they have special financing of around 2.9-3.9 percent depending on the term.

Depending on how much gear you have to take a wagon might even be large enough to hold all of it.

qbrozen

although I'm skeptical of who would even be interested in it in this day and age!

No matter what you read, there are still plenty of folks buying SUVs.

I just bought another one for my wife about a month ago. No matter how hard I tried, she would not consider anything more fuel efficient. And when we were out shopping, we saw folks still buying things like the Jeep Commander! So if gas ain't keeping them out of 15 mpg beasts, your 20 mpg beast should be no problem.

And, don't forget, just as you in your SUV have considered a 2nd more efficient commuting car, there are always folks in efficient commuting cars who are looking for a 2nd less efficient vehicle to tow a trailer, go off-roading, etc.

fezo

I just bought another one for my wife about a month ago.

Of COURSE you did! If you stop buying we'll ahve nothing to talk about it here....

qbrozen

hey, believe it or not, my fleet will actually be REDUCED by 1 car tomorrow! We are dropping the Pac off at the dealer ... for good!

musicmanmu

That's a very good point, thanks for making it!

I'll have to hold out until September to do anything, so we'll see where things stand at that point (I doubt things will change much).

As for the Focus wagon idea, thanks, but after a horrible experience with a 93 Mustang, I won't go near Fords ever again. :sick:

fezo

Wow! If you lose the Accord you'll be down to one car for each foot....

That can't possibly last!

qbrozen

hmmm...
i won't ask about that 3rd foot my pickup truck belongs to.

fezo

Oh, does that still leave you five between you and the Mrs?

Otherwise I don't want to know about that foot!