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I am trying to make the best decision on what to do with my beat down Civic. I am just looking for a car that can get me back and forth to work. So I was looking at purchasing a 94 Integra LS. My civic has 157,000 miles on it but it keeps on having more problems each time I fix a certain problem. I got this civic 5 months ago and had it checked out by a mechanic before I purchased it. The mechanic only found one minor problem which was fixed. In the last several months the car has been having minor problems which I had been getting fixed. Now I ran into another problem and I am not willing to put any more money into this car. I paid $2200 for this car and so far I have spend $700 on parts and labor. I am now looking at trading it in for a 94 Integra LS with 122200 miles. The dealership was selling the Integra for $2995 and giving me $1000 for the civic due to some problems in the car (civic). So at the end the price for sell was $2400. Now tell me if I'm wrong. If the car is $2995 and they are giving me $1000 for the civic. Shouldn't the sale price be $1995? I am kind of new to this. I just need a car to get me back and forth but I don't believe the civic will last any longer. So is this a good deal or not?
Thanks
Ask the seller for the details of the how they came up with that price.
What is your state tax rate on automobile purchases? If it's 6% (only as a comparison), that would be $120 in tax (that assumes the state charges only on the difference paid, effectively not charging you on the value of your tradein).
I'm guessing they're trying to charge you an extra 300 bucks.
Did they put it on paper? If not tell em to, then have them explain each charge. If it doesn't make sense, refuse to pay it. They may not budge. Then walk. You can always come back. They don't know if you will. Don't be a wet noodle about it. Unless they are a one price dealer, they may have 500 to 1000 to play with on the price. If so, they could get your car for nothing. A dealer relative will buy a car for $700 and put it on the lot for $3000. And read everything before you sign it.
Integra: $2995
Civic: -$1000
Ending price: $2400 (when it should be $1995 before sales tax)
Then you add 6% for sales tax.
2nd, I'm not surprised at the $2400. You are probably looking at $120 tax, $200 doc fee, and $80 DMV. Or something to that effect. The doc fee IS added profit, yes, but its pretty standard. Most places have this preprinted on all their sales contracts.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
They said the fees are:
dealer fee-$285
transfer for tags- $40
sales tax-$159
total-$484
the passenger door will not open with the key
power door locks inop
power windows barely working
the hinge on the door of the rear driver side door is hard to open
when at a red light and the air is on. The car starts jumping
tire rod needs to be replaced along with other things in that area/.
not too safe to drive back in forth to work
Lets say I sold it on Craigslist I probably will only get $1000-$1200 and then I will go and purchase the Integra 9if everything is fine with it) and have to pay for tags, title, taxes. Wouldn't I be paying a lot more once everything done? Just to remind it's just my little beater car and my main car.
So att the end of the day if I decide to get rid of the civic through the dealership.Do I need to talk them down to a lower figure? I just need to know if the price they are giving me is a legitimate price.
Thanks
?
Didn't you say your tax is 6%?
6% of $2k is $120.
They shouldn't be charging you tax on the tags and dealer fee.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
But, even then, its $2285 x .06 = $137.10
Not the $159 stated.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I hate to think how much time and money is wasted doing this on almost every deal.
On the rebuilt engine/tranny as a buyer I personally would be a little hesitant to purchase a vehicle especially a VW that only had 85K miles and already had to have a rebuild. At first glance I would be. I would like to know why it had to be rebuilt and who did the rebuild. 85K on any newer vehicle to me is barely broken in. Then maybe I would consider the vehicle, but I wouldn't pay top dollar for it, even with all the options mentioned. From what I have read and know VW's are not that well known for holding up long term. There is a story on another board about an Audi owner that brought her 2000 Audi to trade and the poster mentioned that it barely ran and it only had 70K some odd miles on it. He was so worried the car wouldn't make it back to her home he called to make sure she made it home alright.
Anyway, having said that I would make sure that if I had a car that had any sort of rebuild, whether it be motor or tranny, I would mention it up front. Doing so might send some potential buyers running. But not doing so and one of a buyer that would have run had they known so, bought the car and found out so; you could possibly have an even bigger issue on your hands.
I am not saying a rebuild is a bad thing. It all depends on the quality of work and who did the work. I've had a things rebuilt. I have even installed an engine out of a junkyard (well pieced together 3 different motors whose model years spanned a decade to make one serviceable motor.) It was one of the best running vehicles I ever had up to that time. I still miss that vehicle. Most things have turned out good. One motor that I had rebuilt didn't do too well and was dead in less than 6K miles.
So in the end, which is better? I would say a couple weeks before taking delivery of your new car, put a for sale sign in the window and see if you can get any takers. Be upfront about the rebuild. If the rest of the car is in good condition and has been maintained; from your posts, I gather that it may not have been altogether a complete failure of the motor, but rather just a small part, but still easier to do a rebuild? Anyway if the car has been well maintained and you have records to prove that and the car is clean and presentable (detailed), then you might just find a buyer. If you do find a buyer prior to taking delivery, than ask that the deal be contingent upon taking delivery of the new car so that you are not left with out wheels (or rent some wheels if the delivery day is not too far out from the sale of old vehicle). If you don't get any bites before the deilvery date, you might talk to the dealer about using it as a trade and see if they will work with you. You might get a lower price than if you sell it yourself, but it might be hard to find a buyer with the rebuild issue. It might just be easier to trade, take the loss and lower your risk to sell.
Long post I know, hope it all makes sense....
Good luck though!
Actually I think it is amazing that we can get so much info and even talk to othes about car buying experiences, what's wrong with our car experiences, heck we even get Kirby stories here.
Where else are you going to get that... Can CR give you that?? And you still have to PAY for it. I used to read CR when I was younger (actually in High School), but haven't looked at a CR for years. Not sure I would when a little bit of digging and a little but of informitive research on the internet will yeild better results.
But now the rig was basically unusuable and with over 200K on it and it being over 15 years old, I wasn't sure whether it would be worth it to fix it or just get a different rig. In the meantime, I purchased a ladder rack for my personal truck and began using that as an interim work vehicle until I decided what to do. I weighed my options over fixing the rig or buying a different one. On one hand, the fix would be relatively inexpensive, much less than a different rig. But the vehicle also had over 200K on it and was definately showing it age. It's gas mileage was also very low at around 10 MPG. At $60-70 a fillup that occured every 3 or 4 days, it was pretty expensive to keep on the road. So a smaller, more fuel efficient rig would definately help keep my overhead low.
I already knew what I wanted. The vehicle I had been driving was a G20 full size Chevy van. I wanted to go to the smaller Astro and had actually been looking for a couple months when the van was grounded. But I hadn't found anything yet. So I continued my search. I found several other full sized vans and even had a buddy offer me a van his electric company was selling. But that van was even older than the one I was driving, albiet with a newer but much larger motor. The price was good, but again I was faced with a high mileage, gas using monster. That didn't seem to be an efficient long term viable solution. So I kept looking. But it seems that every van I found, either on the side of the road being sold by a private party was high mileage (approaching 200K0, or was too small. My sister-in-law offered her Dodge Caravan that she was selling because she needed a larger van for her 4 soon-to-be 5 kids. I could gut the seats and use it, but I felt it wasn't large enough or durable enough for what I wanted. Anyway, for the past couple of months I hadn't been able to find something that suited my needs.
But the other day, I was headed home and I decided to pull into a dealership that I knew had cargo vans. Every time I had driven past, they only had full sizers, but this time when I drove past, I decided to pull in and see if they had anything else. And when I pulled in, just past the rise in the driveway, I saw that they had 3 cargo Astros. I decided to get out and take a look. 2 were white, one was AWD and the other was blue. I gravitated towards the blue one because it was blue. The salesman there opened it up for me and I poked around. I noticed the price was almost 10K. Quite a bit more than what I wanted to pay, but as I had been doing my research, I knew that this was ball park for the year and mileage. I had been watching E-bay and other private party ads and knew that I would have to pay close to that to get what I wanted.
I wanted a later model, low mileage (less than 100K). Those were biggies. I knew that the drivetrain of the vehicle would last beyond 200K if properly taken care of, but I wanted to get as much life out of the vehicle as possible. I also knew there was very very little difference between models years of these vehicles. So even if it was a few years old, it would be the same as one only a couple years old. I asked to take the blue one for a test drive and drove it home, poked around it, looked at the motor, the undercarriage, the condition of the cargo area, the condition of the seats and made sure everything worked. The power windows worked, the locks worked, the tires were in good shape, the oil was clean, the underside was clean and the cargo area looked lightly used. It showed signs of light use but was not scratched heavily (it didn't appear to have been covered as there were signs of use). ALso the sides of the cargo area and the panels on the rear doors were immaculate. The seats weren't torn, nor could I see any signs of stains, the door pulls were in one piece. I expected to find some signs of use - even abuse since it was a WORK van probably used by careless employees, but I didn't find any of that. Which all in all was a good sign.
All signs pointed to good. The only things it didn't have which it must have, were a ladder rack for my ladders and a divider between the cargo area and driver area to keep things from impailing me in an accident. When I go back to the dealership, the salesman offered to include these in with the vehicle. I also knew what I wanted to offer him for the vehicle. We went inside to crunch some numbers and before I could tell him my offer, he told me what he would let it go for - including the bulkhead and ladder rack. That price was within the range I wanted to pay and so we struck a deal. All in all I was in the dealership about 2 hours. Including the 45 mintues it took me to drive it home, inspect it, have my wife look at it and drive it back... I feel I made out pretty good in the deal. It was quick and painless, I was treated with respect and wasn't dinked around and the vehicle suited the needs I was looking for.
Here is what I bought...
After tax/title/license $8600
2004 Chevrolet Astro Cargo Van
86K Miles
All the standard stuff like AC/PS etc...
Power windows/door locks with keyless entry
Cloth seats instead of vinyl
Van included the bulkhead and the ladder rack
Tires that are good for at least another 30K miles
In the research that I did, I found several vans with mileage varying from close to 100K to over 150K with varying options from around 7K to over 10K. The ones closer to 7K had closer to 150K miles. The ones closer to 100K miles were usually closer to 10K and models years '03-'05. Most didn't have the power windows or door locks and most had vinyl seats. None of the vans I found had less than 90K miles. So for what I got and paid for, I feel I got a pretty good deal.
Personally, I don't think it matters. It wouldn't bother me as long as it had enough gas to get me to the gas station. I think it's like buying a piece of electronic equipment or power tool that needs a battery. Most of those have to be charged before you can use them, or have to be charged after only a little bit from the 1st use....
I averaged a traffic stop every 3 months and a ticket every 4 traffic stops. By the time I graduated high school I think I had been pulled over about 15 times and had about 4 tickets (i think). They were for various things ranging from stop sign running to speeding (the usual) and driving with no headlights. I count my lucky stars I wasn't caught doing some of the other things or you could have added reckless endangerment and excessive speed on several occasions.
I also went through 3 motors in 3 different vehicles the 3 years I drove in high school. I am still awed that sophmores are [were] allowed to drive. I think my parents breathed a great big sigh of relief when I finally moved out on my own and was paying my own insurance... They were probably too nice, but I did have to pay for my gas and I ended up footing the bill for at 2 of those motors that I blew.
Anyway, I am getting ready to purchase for my business a cargo work van. When I say getting ready, it means it could happen next week, or in 6 months. Knowing that, I know that I can't nail down a price although I know the ball park I will be looking at. My question is this: I have a list of specific options that I want and none of the dealers have what I want. They all have vans and they are all basically equipped the same. I want to option mine a little differently and so as it stands, I see my only option is to order one and have it built special. That way I can get the color I want (something other than white, the door configuration (I want both driver and passenger cargo doors), the engine I want (6.0 liter instead of 4.8 or 4.3 which is what is usually in stock), and a couple other options that just don't seem to be on the vehicles that the dealers have in stock. So maybe I am being picky in that it is "only" a work van and who cares what color it is, what kind of grill it has, are the windows tinted and so on. My point is that even though it is a "work van" I still would like it to look as professional as possible and having a different color other than white and a more upscale grill help this. Also having the larger engine and both driver and passenger side cargo doors also make it a more functional vehicle. Same goes for power windows and locks. Who wants to go around to each door and manually lock each one?
So since I am looking at ordering and not buying directly off the lot, how much room do I have in negotiating the price? And how would I go about doing that? Would it be the same as if they had that vehicle on the lot already and I walk in and say I will pay $xx,xxx for that vehicle? Since it is optioned out the way that "I" want it and not necasarilly the way someone else would want it, how willing is the dealer going to be in letting me have it at the price I feel is fair since they have to go through the truoble of ordering it specially equipped (although as I understand it, they already order the vans on the lot optioned the way they are because they are the most popular. So placing a "special" order really wouldn't be "special" since they are all options that are readilly available and it would just be basically another order, just with different options?) They may or may not be able to sell it if I for some reason decide I can't take delivery. Not that I am optioning it out like a canvas topped, 22" wheeled, gold grilled Tahoe, but the way I need the vehicle optioned may make it more difficult to sell than a more basic vehicle that they already have on the lot.
I am willing to pay whay I need to pay to get what I want, but at the same time I would like to make sure that I can still not have to pay MSRP since I don't feel that I should have to.
Anyway thanks for the info it is all helping.
Wife wants to buy an Impala SS or LTZ w/most options Pwr Sun roof, etc. I do thru my work have a GM supplier discount code. In my area (FT wayne-IN) they are offering $2500 in rebates OR 72 months at 0%. So how should i negotiate this? Do I tell the dealer about the supplier discount first(?) Should working from the invoice be better and applying the rebates(?) Then apply my GM earnings which is roughly $2300. Help.....she wants to do this before end of JUne.....(urrrghhh!!)
Doesn't seem likely that it would.
If not, just substitute the invoice number (or less) and take it from there.
So, where did you end up and what did you take - rebate or financing?
I've got a lot of great buying tips if you do. It starts with taking about a one hour test drive of the vehicle you are interested in. This is called the "time investment" principle.
When you give us an opening like that, you must be trying to get this one closed too. It is taking what little maturity I possess not to start flinging zingers.
Tidster promised that the other board would be back soon. How soon, he didn't say.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Since its temporary shutdown was due to to much off topic chatter maybe you could start a new "watering hole" in the off topic section.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think any new discussion would need to be in "Smart Shoppers". I've suggested a couple in the past. i.e "The Salesman Lounge & Emporium" "The Grab Bag of Sales Talk" and "The Salesmen/The Consumer... Get inside Their Minds?". :surprise: These titles would allow for sales stories, as well as the off-topic banter that outweights the actual stories 10:1. So theoretically, it would be impossible to be off topic. A low maintence discussion even tidester and kristie could love.
While I'm sure the hosts weren't happy with off topic chatter, I understand the shut down was due to some real nasty exchanges which we may have not seen. (I always miss the good stuff)
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Oldfarmer,
yeah, some of the posts were bad. It wasn't just the nasty exchanges, but some posts veered into generalizations about countries. It wasn't a good direction at all. I'm glad the hosts stepped in the way they did.
What a bummers, there was even a W-2 challenge.... :shades:
How do I get the best deal?
Make sure you're friends with the deskman. (On topic post)
Hmm, I don't know. I bet he'd club his best friend like a baby seal.
Sometimes individuals tip off the hosts when something they personally consider not politically correct goes up. I didn't see the posts in question this time, and don't care to do so.
I see the Frontlines is open for business again.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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In early 2006, a container of engines for Innova and Hiace model cars left the manufacturing workshop in Indonesia for Hai Phong port, and arrived in the port 2-3 weeks later. The consignment of goods stayed at the port until February 2008 because Toyota forgot about it. It contained 89 engines for Innova and six for Hiace.
After discovering the consignment, Toyota Viet Nam asked Toyota Indonesia about the quality of the engines and was told that the engines had been left for too long, six times longer than the maximum recommended time (90 days), and should not be used.
Nevertheless, the engines were still used by Toyota to assemble cars.
An official of the Viet Nam Registration Agency said that the cars assembled with the expired engines could not meet standards for running. Assembling cars with such engines is not acceptable for such a big automobile manufacturer as Toyota.
On July 4 in the afternoon, Toyota Viet Nam officially admitted its mistake and blamed the mistake on the logistics division. 90 cars assembled with the engines have been sold since March 2008: four Hiace sold to individual clients and 86 Toyota Innova sold in lots.
Toyota has promised to give other cars to the buyers or refund 10% of the purchase price. Regarding the quality of the car, Toyota Viet Nam affirmed that the engines are still running well and that all cars sold meet Toyota’s standards.
Innova model was launched by Toyota Viet Nam in January 2006 and has become a best-seller. Some 30,000 Innovas have been consumed in the last 2.5 years, a record high for sales in Vietnam’s market.
Old engines startle customs agencies
An official of the Hai Phong Customs Agency, when talking with a VNExpress reporter, said he could not understand how the engines could have been left for such a long time at the port.
“This is really an unusual story in the history of the automobile industry, especially as this happened with engines for the Innova, the best-seller in the recent past,” he said.
The official said that he does not have information about where the consignment was put. Customs agencies will check to find out what is behind the trouble and who must take responsibility for the mistake.
In principle, when a consignment docks at a port, the owner of the consignment must make a declaration about the imports before the imports are unloaded from the ship. If the owners of the consignment do not receive the imports, the port will notify the ship owner about the tardiness, so that the ship owner can urge the import companies to come to clear the imports. The ship owner is responsible for the commodities until the commodities are cleared.
After the commodities are unloaded from the ship, the consignment owners must register to the port to be able to take the commodity to a bonded warehouse, and make declarations.
No one can give a suitable explanation about why the engines were left for two years. No one can explain how Toyota, a company which applies a strict management procedure, could ‘forget’ the consignment of imports.
The director of a car import company in Hai Phong city guessed that Toyota might have forgotten the imported engines because there were too many imports. However, she said Toyota should not have forgotten for such a long time.
Japanese officials at Toyota Viet Nam joint venture were also surprised at the mistake because no subordinate reported to them about the engines. (VNE)
http://www.vnbusinessnews.com/2008/07/96-toyota-innova-assembled-with-expired.ht- ml
Back to strategies. Jipster brought up a point that he invests time in the deal. He's a seasoned guy. And, that works for him. I'm just the opposite however. I do my research up front, before I even walk into the dealership. I look at the popularity of the model I'm thinking of buying. I look at the store's stock level, as well as how busy they are when I visit (the less traffic, I'm inclined to think the more likely they are to take a skinny deal). I research prices here, in the newspaper, even on-line sources to get a feel for what the model will sell for.
Then, I go make my offer....one offer, most of the time. Some call it the "bobst" method (after a poster who negotiates the same way).
If my offer isn't accepted by a dealer, I leave and wait a day or two to see if the dealers have a "rethink" about my offer. I usually get phone calls. Sometimes they actually accept my offer. Sometimes they just call and ask me to come back in (which I won't, unless they actually state that my offer is accepted).
Not to put words into Jipster's mouth, but I do believe he enjoys getting the dealership involved timewise into a deal. The more, the better. Nothing wrong with that way either.
As a side note, I know that some of the Edmunds staff was working this weekend to come up with a "solution" to the old "Frontlines" thread.
I guess the "Sales" topic has been closed more times than we can remember.
Back to topic.
Best deals I've found is when knowing someone in the dealership. When buying Nissans I work with a F&I manager who cuts the best deals in town. Once I checked his quote with another Nissan dealership and they said no way. I was convinced after that and sent everyone I knew to see that guy.
Doubtful... at least from my own personal exerience. A managers definition of what is fair is generally a higher price than what a consumer thinks. You'll get a better deal going it alone.
I agree. The dealers job is to get the maximum profit the traffic will allow. Dumb buyer pays more than the one who knows what he will pay and sticks to it - assuming that gives the dealer a profit. A dealer once told me "I will if I have to to get the deal".