Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Welcome to New York State. When our NY politicos shout "WE WANT CHANGE" they are talking about going through your pockets to get your last nickel. :mad:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Years ago some smart NY lawyers started using a 90 year old law to sue car manufacturers for damage caused by people driving leased cars. The law was originally passed to make rich people responsible for injuries caused by their chauffeurs. The rich people being the OWNERS of the car were held responsible for injuries caused by the driver (a NON-OWNER).
90 years later the lawyers started suing car companies who were the legal OWNERS of leased vehicles for injuries caused by drivers who had leased the vehicle (the NON-OWNER). This was a ridiculous interpretation of the law by the courts.
To protect themselves from 20 million dollar judgments the car companies came up with the "Smart-Buy" program which was just a lease where the customer became the LEGAL owner for the duration of the lease. This protected the car companies from lawsuits but drove the cost of the lease up for those suckers unfortunate enough to live in NY. New York State loved the situation because they could get more money from the taxpayers.
They may have change the law that caused this trouble by now but it seems a lot of new yorkers are still taking it on the chin.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I don't believe you have that option. As you said, that would really leave Chrysler in a bad position if it were possible. Maybe some salesperson misrepresentation here or misunderstanding on the buyer's part, I dunno.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
LOL
GP
That makes sense
GP
Can't we elect someone from a tax-adverse state?
getting back on topic, lower taxes = more money to spend on new cars!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
LOL
GP
Also I would need to know what the sticker price of the 4 runner. So far it sounds fair for your trade but I would need to the starting price. Also try stories from the front lines. There are some good toyota guys over there that would be happy to help.
GP
What I'm not seeing is what they are paying you for the Scion, however. Dealers will pay off a trade, sure, but that doesn't mean they aren't rolling any negative equity into the new deal.
What I mean is, just because a dealer says "we are paying off your trade," doesn't mean they are actually giving you the full payoff amount for your trade. Know what I mean?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
thanks
angie
angie
GP
BUT, let me try to give a scenario that could happen here in the US to clarify.
If I was trading a vehicle with a $10k payoff and buying a new car for $25k, the dealer could say "Ok, we are paying off your $10k loan and selling you this new vehicle for $25k and your payments will be $500/month. Sign here."
BUT, if I read the contract and go through all the numbers, I see that they are technically "giving me" $8k for my trade, paying $10k to the bank, and adding the remaining $2k to the new car I'm buying. My total bill is now $27k (plus taxes, tags, and fees) for the car I agreed to pay $25k for. You see? If it weren't for that extra $2k, my payments might have been $475 ... or something like that. And the salesperson successfully hid the fact from me that they were only giving me $8k for my trade when I accidentally thought they were giving me $10k. He didn't lie, mind you, because he said "we're paying off your trade," and that is entirely true. They did pay off my trade. And he also didn't lie to me about "paying $25k for the new car" because that is what I'm paying for the new car itself. They just neglected to tell me that, in paying off my trade, they would have to add $2k to my total financed amount.
Now, aside from the above, I'm not sure I agree that your numbers are very good. They are only giving you a bit more than $1k off MSRP on the 4runner, correct? This is a 2007. Meaning it is already a year old. You could get $1k off MSRP on an '08. I would expect a much larger discount on an '07, personally.
But, again, I don't know how it works in Germany. Maybe all 4runners sell for MSRP in Germany and you getting $1k off an '07 is an incredible deal. That, however, is FAR from the case here in the US.
And, with all due respect to greenpea, focusing solely on the monthly payment is the WORST thing you can do when buying a car!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Can you buy used? Can you wait anothe 6 months? I just don't see the urgency in getting this 4Runner. Why not buy a 4 cylinder Camry instead? I know it's not as "cool" as the 4 runner but plenty of room and probably over $10k cheaper.
You should copy and paste this in Stories from the Frontlines. It's always good to see folks finding the vehicle that works best for them and the treatment that they deserve.
Congratulations!
-moo
Have you given some thought to the reason you aren't getting the best deal is because you feel and quite possibly you have let the dealer know from what you have said, that you are at their mercy.
Don't ever feel obligated to be at someone's mercy. That's a sure fire way to get into trouble; what ever the situation is.
Like someone has already said, having to cart around two young children in the car you now have isn't the worst thing in the world. Far, far from it. But spending more money than you have to because you've convinced yourself that you NEED a new car and thus denying your children the best you can do for them is.
If you learn from this lesson and not go deeper into that 'bottomless-debt-hole', you'll be on your way to a better life for you and your family.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Regarding the SmartBuy, I did it on my Malibu and I made a brilliant move. Instead of a $415 payment, I chopped it down to $240 with zero cash down. Over the term of the deal I am saving $175 a month X 48 months = $8,400.
I still may buy it out, but I look at monthly cash flow, and i know people who opted to purchase and traded theirs in after 2 years, spent almost $200 a month more than I did driving the exact same car, and ended up losing on the trade in.
Who's smarter? Me!
In the past I was never sold on those, and I'll be probably declining them this time too. However, just wondered what other people on the forum think about them.
I'm buying an Hyundai, so the warranty is already great. 5 years/60,000 miles bumper to bumper, extended would extend it to 10 years/100,000 miles bumper to bumper. So basically I would be buying 5 years/40,000 miles warranty for 5 year old car 5 years in advance (instead of 5 years from now). Assuming I make less than 60,000 miles in the next 5 years. My reasoning is that the price I would need to pay for warranty now is going to be 10% of what the car might be worth after 5 years. Looking from that perspective, $1,500 for extended warranty doesn't sound like a good deal. At least to me.
The LoJack would in theory lower my insurance. However it would lower it for about $40 annually. It would take about 20 years for device to pay for itself. I live in relatively low crime area (well, car gets stolen from time to time, but that's the life), and I always lock my car (found some statistics that 50% of stolen cars in US were left unlocked by the owner, some even with keys in the ignition).
Reminds on my experience when using "The Club". When I used it, I had to pay $250 deductible. Because ignition was untouched (they never got past the club), it was classified as vandalism, not as attempt of theft. When I haven't used it, insurance paid for everything (they damaged ignition, but haven't managed to start the car, and attempt of theft was $0 deductible on my policy).
My 5 year old Nissan doesn't have any protective coatings. It spent most of its days in the relatively harsh climate of central Canada. The paint still shines like new. Well, there are some scratches and dents, mostly from other people slamming their doors into my car on the parking lots. But protective coatings would do little to nothing against that (especially the dents).
Well, those are at least my reasoning. Wondering what other people think? Do they hold water, or should I maybe reconsider some of those options?
But, if you keep your mileage close to 10k a year, $1,500 wouldn't be too bad if you know you will keep it that long. Offer them $1,200... it's negotiable. But, on the other hand.. most people don't keep their new cars that long. Good luck.
The 10 year powertrain warranty is not transferable to the next owner. For the second and consecutive owners, the powertrain is covered under 5 years/60,000 base warranty. So the question really is, is the car going to be worth $1000-1500 more 5 years from now if it has extended warranty?
We didn't have lojack in our $19k Subaru impreza, but we did have it on the $38k Passat Wagon 4Motion.
If you do decide to go for it, I suggest you call Lojack directly. They will quote you a price a lot lower than your dealer. You can have your dealer match it, or order it directly from Lojack after the sale. The only thing your dealer is going to do is to call Lojack and arrange an install. Don't pay them extra for it.
In CA, Lojack charged $700 and the dealer wanted $1100.
I would have tuned in earlier but I was sure this forum was dead. Only when my ears started to burn did I check for signs of life again. :mad:
I’m the one ‘obyone’ is probably referring to when he says “current owners here at Edmunds” call Hyundais “throw-aways” since I have two of them and say that. Don’t let him mess with ya even if after 6/7 years that’s probably the case. But then that’s probably the case with most run of the mill family sedans compared to what they cost new.
When I bought the 06’ Sonata LX, I remember the extended warranty being offered at something like $1500. Before I had a chance to open my mouth to refuse, the F&I guy said, “but I’m authorized to offer you this at $750”. Not bad for keeping my mouth shut but I still didn’t buy. This is a very negotiable item and if you really want it, make them deeply discount it; to the extent that if they don’t sell it to you at your price (you have to be somewhat reasonable here) consider taking your business elsewhere.
It’s part of the car buying process so negotiate, negotiate, neg
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
In addition, if you already agreed on a deal, honor it. Imagine how you'd feel if the dealer asked you for extra $50 when you went to pick up the car b/c their electricity bill went up?
It shouldn't have anything less than what it had when you agreed to a deal. If it did I'd want it filled to that level. Any appreciable gas that was used if/when they did additional checks to insure customer satisfaction at the time of delivery should be on their nickel.
Expecting the tank to be filled today with the cost of gas what it is, is pushing a bit too much. Expecting nothing less than a quarter tank is what I'd shoot for.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
New cars are filled and I just put almost 90 dollars worth of gas in a Westminster Range Rover this morning for a delivery tonight.
If you mean by that the dough-nuts they were doing in the parking lot with your car after you left, I agree, that can burn up a lot of gas.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I told him to fill it up and lunch was on me. I gave him a $50 for lunch as the F&I guy was a friend of mine and I knew the deal was a mini. Before anyone jumps on me for the $50 please remember this was in 1990.
LOL... good story. But, isn't that the same as "leaving (lunch) money on the table"? :P
Whoa, wait a minute. How do you know you have a good price if the trade isn't involved yet? You certainly wouldn't put a deposit on an open ended deal would you? A dealer could knock a thousand off the RAV4, then when you walk in for your new car, offer you a thousand less for the trade than it's worth. He has your deposit so you're kinda stuck. You may be forced to keep your trade to keep from getting skinned, but then you pay sales tax on the full amount. Don't sign nuthin until you finalize everything in writing. NEVER leave your butt flappin in the wind.
He's right. You ask for everything you want before you close a deal. After that, the lever is in their hand. Ask for a tank of gas? Hell yes. All he can do is say no. Or, he can look ahead to a return customer, but most salesmen won't be there for more than a short time. Blow the deal over it, no.
I can understand how people can get confused working the two deals together still the bottom line IS the bottom line no matter how hard the dealer may try to hide it.
p.s. I've been following James Bragg's book. And yes, I know its better to sell yourself but I just can't stand to do that. Plus in our state you lose the tax savings if you don't work it into the new car deal.
KBB says 10,525 for excellent
$9840 for good
$8635 for fair
The dealership offered us 9800 to start. I was also in talks with another dealership so I told them that the numbers weren't good enough. I got them to go up to 10,300 and accepted. Could we have gotten more, maybe, but that was a number we were happy with and we are sticking the dealership with a big gas guzzler!
We purchased a new 2008 RAV4 Base model 4wd with roof rack, 17" alloy wheels, daytime running lights, 3rd row seat, and floor mats for $23,300 which is one hundred over dealer invoice (if you include TDA, dealer holdback, and whsl financial reserves in the invoice). Toyota doesn't have any customer incentives on the RAV4 right now. I think a few dealers were competing for business because they were trying to reach a sales incentive. And maybe there was some dealer cash involved but I don't think we could have gotten them down much lower. We really played the dealers against each other.
I'm sure there was probably some amount of money on the table still or the dealer wouldn't have taken it without making a profit. But I'm not sure there was much more that they would have given us.
Have you looked at your fees?
$685 destination
$419 TDA
$10 Gasoline (every dealer around here seems to be charging this, seems bogus but I'll let them pretend)
$453 Dealer Holdback
$226 Whsl Financial Reserves
$1161.45 Sales Tax (Its calculated right based on our local rate)
$88 Tax/Registration
$50 Doc Fee
All except the last three were included in the invoice price.
Since I don't have the specific options on your vehicle I can't check the invoice price but have you double checked it? Something is strange here and I'm not trying to shoot holes in your deal. I'm more curious than anything else.