I can put the driver's seat all the way back in the Escape and still have sufficient knee room. The rear seats are high enough off the floor that the seating position is reasonably upright. Unlike most modern passenger cars, there's even sufficient headroom for the rear seat passengers. Most taxicab rides are only for a few minutes, the seats don't have to be comfortable enough to ride in all day (except for the driver of course).
Actually Gary I owned one too! Bet you didn't expect that. I also owned a VW Bus but as much as I enjoyed those, that was then and this is now (then gas was 29 cents a gal. now it's 2 bucks) Your thinking about CELEBS is hard to fathom considering the car stands tall in all cicles without any Hollywood endorsments. By the way, have YOU ever driven a 2nd gen Prius? Culliganman (PRIUS DON'T LEAVE US)
No, I had two test drives in the 2000 model. I thought it was a neat car. The quietness of it was the biggest attraction. The 8 year 100k mile Bumper to Bumper warranty on the first Prius was also a big plus to me.
Prius II: I have gone into two dealerships to try out the new Prius. The one in Hawaii was very negative about the Prius and was only interested in selling what he had on the lot. The local dealer here in San Diego told me that I could get on their call list. If one came in the salesmen all start calling those names they have. The first person through the door with the money gets the car. Very little chance to get a test drive. It is those experiences that have formulated a lot of my opinions on the whole hybrid genre. In 2000 the salesman called at least 6 times after my two test drives, trying to interest me. My now ex wife was not interested in the Prius, so I did not buy it.
I find it bizarre that dealers are not letting people test drive these cars. My experience with Toyota dealers in the Portland area is that they all keep one car on hand (usually a white one with very little in the way of options) expressly to have a car they can take on test drives. I'm guessing the dealers that are not allowing test drives are convinced they don't have to because the car will sell itself. Judging by the number of cars that are starting to show up on the lots around here I'm guessing that will change before long. Soon dealers will have in-stock cars in sufficient numbers that they will begin actively selling instead of just waiting for the money to come in on its own.
I'm bewildered that some Toyota dealers would undermine the future of Prius sales by a kind of "bait n' switch". Although this has alterior motives (possibly a lesser costing car). The dealers are in a dilema as I see it. If they can't convince a potential buyer to WAIT for a Prius then what options do they have left but to push what they have on the lot. Probably to their advantage and the dealer's orders. The PRIUS is a high profile hybrid, even more than Hondas. Prius cars are the car in demand that changes the playing field of seller/buyer. I felt lucky to have been in on the car's rise to fame at the early stages of it all. If gas goes up that demand, on top of it's popularity, will no doubt increase. At the least, the Prius will be a popular car because of its' own merit even if the gas prices only fluctuate moderatly. Culliganman(wouldn't mind a stationwagon Prius)
"Hats off, then, to the students at the Electrical Vehicle Laboratory at Keio University's Fujisawa, Japan, campus. Their Eliica electric concept car, unveiled at the last Tokyo Motor Show, has a 60-kilowatt motor, including the reduction gear, wheel bearing, and brake, in each and every one of its wheels—all eight of them. The advantages of using eight small wheels rather than four larger ones, says the Keio team, include increased interior space, better road holding (owing to the greater tire contact area), and a more comfortable ride (because shock absorption is spread over twice as many wheels). It can supposedly go from zero to 100 km/h (62 mph) in four seconds. A version tuned for top speed is said to exceed the 368 km/h (229 mph) it has recorded in tests. "
This is what I have said all along. R&D is part of the cost of any product even if you write it off.
The company's definition of profitability excludes research and development investments of as much as $2 billion made a decade ago to develop hybrid and fuel-cell vehicles.
This is what I have said all along. R&D is part of the cost of any product even if you write it off.
I agree. Hybrids are not profitable. R&D is part of the cost of developing a product. Of course, I'm biased since I work in R&D and expect to get paid for my work!
If gas prices go up, sales of Escape Hybrid will also go up making them profitable.
According to www.autonews.com 38,000 Escapes were made in Jan-Feb 2005 against 30,000 in the same period in 2004. No idea as how many of those extra 8,000 are Hybrids.
Meanwhile, the production of their SUV trio (Explorer, Expedition, Excursion) has declined.
According to www.greencarcongress.com Nissan wants to make 25 % of their vehicles with CVT by 2007. This is the easy way they are looking for improving mileage.
Something is better than nothing. But sad that they are not even going for Mild Hybrid.
As with most generalizations, this one is not true in all cases. The prior-generation Prius was profitable for Toyota. Toyota has stated it expects the current generation Prius to be profitable, but it's only 18 months into its lifecycle so it's unlikely all the design costs have been recouped yet.
I couldn't agree more. Lets see, 22,000 to 23,000 buyers with orders for 05 Prius cars. Owners raving about their cars. Critics lauding this car as the most revolutionary vehicle since the Model T. Toyota is moving forward with a great inovative car and others are paying Toyota for their "R&D" and their patented "Synergy" sys. How anyone can say "no profit" is beyound me. This car has been turning heads for quite a while. The public is now coming to terms with the hybrid world and learning that this is an alturnitive to the past & present. Look for more change to come. Culliganman(Prius Free us from OPEC)
Since Nissan may have the only mid-sized sedan with a 4-cylinder hybrid powertrain, at least for awhile, they might sell lots of these Altimas. The prototype has averaged over 40 mpg. For all those people who have said, "I wish Honda offered a 4-cylinder engine in the HAH," this is your car.
After few months of single digit sales, Insight has sold 22. Reason : High Gas Prices. I think Honda will sell its Inventory of Insight and stop with that.
I feel bad for the GM and Ford employees, but this just shows that these companies have been too slow to adopt Hybrids, and now their sales numbers and employees are paying for it:
Ford sells Escape Hybrid (Full Hybrid) in all states to customers with expected sales of 20,000 units while GM sells only Mild Hybrids only in few states to Fleet customers only with a target of 2,500 units.
So both should be in a different club. But the common thing is both companies depended on Trucks (SUV & Pickups) and that is what is harming them.
Finally they agree that gas prices are hurting them.
But the common thing is both companies depended on Trucks (SUV & Pickups) and that is what is harming them.
How is it harming GM? They sold more SUVs in 2004 than any other company and more than they did in 2003. Plus an equal amount of PU trucks from 2003. GM sold 2,462,848 PU trucks & SUVs in 2004 here in the USA. How many did Honda, Toyota & Nissan sell put together? Those are the money makers not some loss leader hybrids. I did not even count Subaru which is mostly owned by GMC.
You can find other versions of the story, with numbers on just how bad the slump is model by model if you look, but this is the gist of it (exerpts):
Ford and GM cut production after SUV sales slump
The American car giants General Motors and Ford have been forced to cut production after reporting lower US vehicle sales for February. Both companies, who have long been surrendering market share to foreign rivals, saw double-digit percentage declines in sales of many sports utility vehicles.
GM, which also suffered slower-than-expected turnover of its trucks, said it sold 309,375 new vehicles last month, down 13% on a year ago. The decrease has prompted the world's largest car-maker to cut planned North American production, already down by around 9%, a further 3%.
Ford said worldwide sales in February had dropped by 3% and that US sales had dropped for a ninth consecutive month. Sales of new models were stronger than expected but they failed to offset large declines elsewhere, including an 11% drop in sales of Ford's key F-Series pickup trucks and a 19% fall in sales of the Explorer SUV.
The company - the second largest car-maker in the US - said it was cutting first-quarter North American production by a further 10,000 vehicles, just under 1%. The cuts came a day after Banc of America Securities reduced its rating on GM and Ford shares to "sell".
Face it - Large SUVs are losing their luster. Car sales up, SUV sales DOWN.....Hybrids up...With gas prices expected to hit record HIGHS this year, all you Hybrid naysayers might better unstubbornize yourself and get in line....
Maybe "short term" is 10-20 years.....Not less than that.....
"Diesel remains unpopular in the United States, however. In the United States, there has been a visceral rejection of diesel by baby boomers who were turned off by the bad performance of the first diesel cars," Dubreil said. "The high-tech X and Y generations will get attached to the hybrid idea, skipping diesel phase."
Face it - Large SUVs are losing their luster. Car sales up, SUV sales DOWN.....Hybrids up...
There you go again, skewing the facts. Overall car sales were down in 2004 from 2003 by 200k+ cars. The Prius is the only hybrid that may make the goal set for 2005. It will be close...
SUV sales were up by 150k units. The number 1 & 2 SUVs are the Explorer and Trailblazer. Explorer did lose but the Trailblazer gained by 22k units. By the way I rented a Trailblazer and it is much nicer on the back roads of Hawaii than either the Explorer or Escape, which I have also rented. I took it on trails NO hybrid would dare go, present or future..
As far as telling an SUV from a CUV. If the Lexus RX vehicles are CUVs you can have them in your column. Any vehicle I can't take through the mud and sand is not my cup of tea.
I was basing that on my "general feeling" and the Jan and Feb sales numbers, both of which showed cars up and SUVs/Trucks down.
People are starting to understand that gas prices are not going to come back down, but are only going to go upward. BIG SUVs are on the downswoop...
Mercedes is smartly going where the market is headed. "We think that this fuel-efficient segment of the SUV category will have sales growth of at least 30%" over the coming year, Paul Taylor, chief economist for the National Automobile Dealers Association, wrote in a recent analysis. Meantime, sales of large SUVs are expected to stay flat or even decline."
That trend, and the sales trends, will continue, just watch.....Smaller gas SUVs and Hybrid "crossover" SUVs like the Escape and RX400h will boom....
PS If anyone has a truck or SUV they want to sell or trade this year, NOW might be the best time to get the most value.....
"Currently, gas accounts for 98 percent of energy used in transport. " I guess they are referring to US market. Worldwide Diesel may take atleast 1/3 share as all the heavy vehicles (6 wheelers and above), trains, ships use this fuel and those vehicles drive more than any car.
"Others believe oil will remain abundant for at least several decades and new extraction technologies will ensure plentiful supplies for a long time. " If it takes 1 unit of energy to find, drill, extract, refine and distribute 1 unit of energy (for Crude Oil), then NO ONE will go for it. Those oil fields which has Negative Net Output will be just ignored.
"Diesel is still sweeping Europe." It may sweep US as well.
"Volkswagen is featuring its new Golf Bifuel, which runs on gasoline and natural gas. " If that Phill refuelling device suceeds, then Natgas may have a break.
Gary "SUV sales were up by 150k units. " Only if you include CUV, its up, otherwise its down. There is a big difference between Escape that gives 25 MPG and Explorer that gives 15 MPG.
We are saying that only those vehicles with Truck Chassis (SUV & PU) will have reduced sales. CUV's are selling well.
In Jan-Feb 2005, Escape (including Hybrid) sold 27,178 units against 26,841 for Trailblazer.
quote Yerth10-"Diesel is still sweeping Europe." It may sweep US as well."-end quote
Not likely.....
"Diesel remains unpopular in the United States, however. In the United States, there has been a visceral rejection of diesel by baby boomers who were turned off by the bad performance of the first diesel cars," Dubreil said. "The high-tech X and Y generations will get attached to the hybrid idea, skipping diesel phase."
Gary, betcha a dollar to a donut you eat humble pie cause \toyota will do exceedingly well (other words, Hit their goals) Culliganman( figures don't lie) Of course SUV's will continue to drop P.S. Barrel of oil....$52.38 approx b/4 close
Zap made a big publicity splash with its plans to sell the tiny two-seat coupe, promoting it as the most efficient gasoline-powered vehicle ever at 60 miles to the gallon and lining up thousands of orders.
But before the French-made ultra-mini could even think about hitting U.S. roads, the Environmental Protection Agency ordered the Santa Rosa, Calif., auto importer to scale back its fuel-efficiency claims.
The federal agency's fuel economy estimate for the Smart car isn't 60 miles per gallon — it's 37, sort of like a Honda Civic.
At 37 mpg, the Smart would have the ninth-best rating in the EPA's rankings for 2005.
It would be in league with the much bigger Toyota Echo and certain models of the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic and behind the 50-mpg gas-electric hybrids sold by Honda Motor Co. and Toyota Motor Corp.
Toyota increased its Prius sales target in Europe to 20,000 this year from the previous goal of 15,000 and versus 8,200 in 2004. It aims to sell 300,000 hybrids around the world in 2006. Such economies of scale help offset the added cost of making hybrids and allow Toyota make a profit on the models. "In the initial stage it was rather difficult to make money" but now "we do make a profit," Ishizaka said. "Otherwise we might say we like to limit the numbers, but we are expanding." Even Toyota is hedging its bets, however. It is working hard to boost the percentage of diesel-powered cars it sells in Europe, which currently accounts for around 36 percent of its sales. It is also rolling out a new 2.2-litre diesel motor it makes in Poland.
That will end about 2015 when ALL of Toyota's line is Hybridized.
It is nice to have dreams. All hybrid vehicles will never happen. Within two years diesel cars will outsell hybrids in the US. I am sure Toyota is aware of that and ramping up diesel production to meet that need. Gas/Hybrids DO NOT solve the energy crisis. They only postpone it a very short time. We need vehicles that will run on home grown fuel, not OPEC fuel. Fuel cells are becoming a joke. Since the inception they were always 10-20 years in the future. That was 30 years ago and they are still 10-20 years in the future. They do not address fossil fuel usage either. Solar is another "Pie in the SKY" that has gotten lots of media attention and little progress in the last 50 years. They still cost more than they can produce in their life cycle. Dreaming is nice, not always realistic.
Finally, some "big guns" putting pressure on the EPA to fix the flawed MPG tests.
Notice how the Hybrids *were not* the cars which were off by the most MPG from EPA:
"Among vehicles that were farthest off of EPA: 2004 BMW Z4 sports car, which AAA says hit just 14.5 miles per gallon in combined city-highway use, vs. 24 mpg EPA rating; Chevrolet TrailBlazer SUV, 13.6 mpg in AAA testing vs. 17 mpg EPA rating; Chrysler PT Cruiser, 17.5 mpg from AAA vs. 25 mpg EPA rating."
By the way, this strongly enhances my argument from other boards and this discussion where I have pointed out that MANY cars fail to achieve EPA Miles Per Gallon numbers - it is not a Hybrid phenomenon.
Okay, here's why this doesn't work in the movie. In the original, 'Get Shorty', Travolta drives a minivan, which truly was NOT a cool vehicle, but his characters makes it cool. That was great. Now in the new movie, they're trying the same shtick but with a hybrid (Insight). For this to work, the hybrid would have to be an "uncool" vehicle. However, with all the hybrid buzz, they are definitely the "cool" vehicle of the moment, so the whole thing falls flat and just becomes an environmental/political statement. These kind of jarringly out-of-place political statements (of any kind) add nothing to the plot and detract from the story. IMHO.
We all enjoyed "Get Shorty" for the most part and ya gotta get a kick outa John T but the reviews on "Be Cool" have been...lets (BE KIND) say less than favorable. Sequals tend to fall short of their mother hens. Product endorsments tend to backfire many times if they're presented in the wrong way (shoved down our throats). Some work and some don't. Take the movie "Bullitt" Steve McQueen did for Mustangs what sidewalk airvents did for Marilyn Monroe. Take the movie "GOLDFINGER" Sean Connery did for Austin Martins what the moonwalk did for Michael Jackson. Take the movie "THE ITALIAN JOB", Mini Coopers were a big success just after that flick. Another Bond flick with the BMW Z-3 had people getting in line to buy them. Now if I could just remember the bombs that failed the products. Later..... Culliganman (love da movies)
The gasoline hybrid engine will eventually become extinct
Before that Gasoline engine will become extinct followed by Diesel and then LPG. The World that knows how to get rid of 500 million + (approx) gasoline vehicles will also learn to remove 300 million + Diesel and 10 million + LPG vehicles.
Future will have only Hybrids with Plugin in the mix.
Over the years CR has said a lot of things I disagreed with from which was the best underwear to the best Cell Phones and cameras. Most of the time they are DEAD WRONG. Why should I believe what they have to say about cars.
PS I don't believe Toyota either and I sold all my Enron a year before they imploded.
It is not my credibility that is in question. No magazine can survive on sales of the magazine. Read where CU gets it's money. Tell me do you send them contributions? Who do you think sends them contributions to stay in business, if they don't accept advertising??? You can believe that stuff if you like, I chose to get my own information. Then you believe that Toyota always tells the truth to the media. I'm a "Trust but Verify" person. And I Never trusted Dan Rather...
Our income is derived from the sale of CONSUMER REPORTS and other publications and information services, and from nonrestrictive, noncommercial contributions, grants and fees.
If you want to know who contributes money to CR, you can look in the magazine--they periodically publish a list of top contributors.
Since you are a "trust but verify" person, maybe you can tell us how you verified that CR does actually accept advertising money--which it seems you are implying--contrary to their public statements.
Anyway, since this is a hybrid-in-the-news discussion, here's some more news about hybrids: hybrids took two of the top three spots for small cars in CR's annual auto survey of 810,000 people for the question, "If you had to do it all over again, would you still buy that car?" (or words to that effect). Prius was #1 (actually #1 overall), and HCH was #3 for small cars among the 250,000 people surveyed who answered the question.
Since you are a "trust but verify" person, maybe you can tell us how you verified that CR does actually accept advertising money--which it seems you are implying--contrary to their public statements.
They said they do not accept advertising only contributions. People that contribute money to something other than religious or humanitarian causes, generally expect something in return. Like when you contribute $150,000 to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom. I'm implying that those that contribute want something from CU other than a free subscription to the magazine.
Yeah, right. What I expected when I contributed to CR was that they would use the money to improve their testing facilities (which they did) and continue reporting on new cars on a regular basis (which they do).
I don't see any verification or facts there, just insinuations without anything to back them up. Let's stick to facts and links to stuff on hybrids and leave the conspiracy theories to TV and movies and books.
What I expected when I contributed to CR was that they would use the money to improve their testing facilities (which they did)
Well, to you I owe an apology. I have never known of anyone that contributed to CR. You do have a vested interest and are offended by my allegations of impropriety. My hats off to you as I doubt seriously you were trying to sway their reports.
Comments
Culliganman (PRIUS DON'T LEAVE US)
No, I had two test drives in the 2000 model. I thought it was a neat car. The quietness of it was the biggest attraction. The 8 year 100k mile Bumper to Bumper warranty on the first Prius was also a big plus to me.
Prius II:
I have gone into two dealerships to try out the new Prius. The one in Hawaii was very negative about the Prius and was only interested in selling what he had on the lot. The local dealer here in San Diego told me that I could get on their call list. If one came in the salesmen all start calling those names they have. The first person through the door with the money gets the car. Very little chance to get a test drive. It is those experiences that have formulated a lot of my opinions on the whole hybrid genre. In 2000 the salesman called at least 6 times after my two test drives, trying to interest me. My now ex wife was not interested in the Prius, so I did not buy it.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05059/464017.stm
Culliganman(wouldn't mind a stationwagon Prius)
http://tinyurl.com/4e8fa
"Hats off, then, to the students at the Electrical Vehicle Laboratory at Keio University's Fujisawa, Japan, campus. Their Eliica electric concept car, unveiled at the last Tokyo Motor Show, has a 60-kilowatt motor, including the reduction gear, wheel bearing, and brake, in each and every one of its wheels—all eight of them. The advantages of using eight small wheels rather than four larger ones, says the Keio team, include increased interior space, better road holding (owing to the greater tire contact area), and a more comfortable ride (because shock absorption is spread over twice as many wheels). It can supposedly go from zero to 100 km/h (62 mph) in four seconds. A version tuned for top speed is said to exceed the 368 km/h (229 mph) it has recorded in tests. "
quote Jim Padilla of Ford- I don't think there's a chance with the first generation of product" for it to be profitable.-end
The company's definition of profitability excludes research and development investments of as much as $2 billion made a decade ago to develop hybrid and fuel-cell vehicles.
I agree. Hybrids are not profitable. R&D is part of the cost of developing a product. Of course, I'm biased since I work in R&D and expect to get paid for my work!
According to www.autonews.com
38,000 Escapes were made in Jan-Feb 2005 against 30,000 in the same period in 2004. No idea as how many of those extra 8,000 are Hybrids.
Meanwhile, the production of their SUV trio
(Explorer, Expedition, Excursion) has declined.
Nissan wants to make 25 % of their vehicles with CVT by 2007. This is the easy way they are looking for improving mileage.
Something is better than nothing.
But sad that they are not even going for Mild Hybrid.
What do you mean?
Nissan is releasing the Altima as a full hybrid using Toyota Technology in 2007.
Just Google for Nissan Altima Hybrid for lots of info.
As with most generalizations, this one is not true in all cases. The prior-generation Prius was profitable for Toyota. Toyota has stated it expects the current generation Prius to be profitable, but it's only 18 months into its lifecycle so it's unlikely all the design costs have been recouped yet.
Culliganman(Prius Free us from OPEC)
But their Cheif Carlos Ghosn is very pessimistic about Hybrids. I dont know a how many they will sell.
Civic - 1,353
Escape - 1,092
Accord - 855
Insight - 22
After few months of single digit sales, Insight has sold 22. Reason : High Gas Prices.
I think Honda will sell its Inventory of Insight and stop with that.
Escape may catch up with Civic.
http://tinyurl.com/6ntxp
So both should be in a different club. But the common thing is both companies depended on Trucks (SUV & Pickups) and that is what is harming them.
Finally they agree that gas prices are hurting them.
How is it harming GM? They sold more SUVs in 2004 than any other company and more than they did in 2003. Plus an equal amount of PU trucks from 2003. GM sold 2,462,848 PU trucks & SUVs in 2004 here in the USA. How many did Honda, Toyota & Nissan sell put together? Those are the money makers not some loss leader hybrids. I did not even count Subaru which is mostly owned by GMC.
Like this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1428849,00.html
You can find other versions of the story, with numbers on just how bad the slump is model by model if you look, but this is the gist of it (exerpts):
Ford and GM cut production after SUV sales slump
The American car giants General Motors and Ford have been forced to cut production after reporting lower US vehicle sales for February.
Both companies, who have long been surrendering market share to foreign rivals, saw double-digit percentage declines in sales of many sports utility vehicles.
GM, which also suffered slower-than-expected turnover of its trucks, said it sold 309,375 new vehicles last month, down 13% on a year ago. The decrease has prompted the world's largest car-maker to cut planned North American production, already down by around 9%, a further 3%.
Ford said worldwide sales in February had dropped by 3% and that US sales had dropped for a ninth consecutive month. Sales of new models were stronger than expected but they failed to offset large declines elsewhere, including an 11% drop in sales of Ford's key F-Series pickup trucks and a 19% fall in sales of the Explorer SUV.
The company - the second largest car-maker in the US - said it was cutting first-quarter North American production by a further 10,000 vehicles, just under 1%. The cuts came a day after Banc of America Securities reduced its rating on GM and Ford shares to "sell".
"They sold more SUVs in 2004 than any other company and more than they did in 2003. "
I guess you are including Car based CUV's.
If you exclude CUV's, GM sales declinded in 2004 over 2003.
I got the stats from
http://www.aicautosite.com
http://tinyurl.com/5nns4
"Diesel remains unpopular in the United States, however. In the United States, there has been a visceral rejection of diesel by baby boomers who were turned off by the bad performance of the first diesel cars," Dubreil said. "The high-tech X and Y generations will get attached to the hybrid idea, skipping diesel phase."
http://tinyurl.com/5e2zc
There you go again, skewing the facts. Overall car sales were down in 2004 from 2003 by 200k+ cars. The Prius is the only hybrid that may make the goal set for 2005. It will be close...
SUV sales were up by 150k units. The number 1 & 2 SUVs are the Explorer and Trailblazer. Explorer did lose but the Trailblazer gained by 22k units. By the way I rented a Trailblazer and it is much nicer on the back roads of Hawaii than either the Explorer or Escape, which I have also rented. I took it on trails NO hybrid would dare go, present or future..
As far as telling an SUV from a CUV. If the Lexus RX vehicles are CUVs you can have them in your column. Any vehicle I can't take through the mud and sand is not my cup of tea.
People are starting to understand that gas prices are not going to come back down, but are only going to go upward. BIG SUVs are on the downswoop...
Mercedes is smartly going where the market is headed. "We think that this fuel-efficient segment of the SUV category will have sales growth of at least 30%" over the coming year, Paul Taylor, chief economist for the National Automobile Dealers Association, wrote in a recent analysis. Meantime, sales of large SUVs are expected to stay flat or even decline."
That trend, and the sales trends, will continue, just watch.....Smaller gas SUVs and Hybrid "crossover" SUVs like the Escape and RX400h will boom....
PS
If anyone has a truck or SUV they want to sell or trade this year, NOW might be the best time to get the most value.....
http://tinyurl.com/5e2zc
"Currently, gas accounts for 98 percent of energy used in transport. "
I guess they are referring to US market. Worldwide Diesel may take atleast 1/3 share as all the heavy vehicles (6 wheelers and above), trains, ships use this fuel and those vehicles drive more than any car.
"Others believe oil will remain abundant for at least several decades and new extraction technologies will ensure plentiful supplies for a long time. "
If it takes 1 unit of energy to find, drill, extract, refine and distribute 1 unit of energy (for Crude Oil), then NO ONE will go for it. Those oil fields which has Negative Net Output will be just ignored.
"Diesel is still sweeping Europe."
It may sweep US as well.
"Volkswagen is featuring its new Golf Bifuel, which runs on gasoline and natural gas. "
If that Phill refuelling device suceeds, then Natgas may have a break.
"SUV sales were up by 150k units. "
Only if you include CUV, its up, otherwise its down. There is a big difference between Escape that gives 25 MPG and Explorer that gives 15 MPG.
We are saying that only those vehicles with Truck Chassis (SUV & PU) will have reduced sales. CUV's are selling well.
In Jan-Feb 2005, Escape (including Hybrid) sold 27,178 units against 26,841 for Trailblazer.
It may sweep US as well."-end quote
Not likely.....
"Diesel remains unpopular in the United States, however. In the United States, there has been a visceral rejection of diesel by baby boomers who were turned off by the bad performance of the first diesel cars," Dubreil said. "The high-tech X and Y generations will get attached to the hybrid idea, skipping diesel phase."
http://tinyurl.com/5e2zc
Culliganman( figures don't lie)
Of course SUV's will continue to drop
P.S. Barrel of oil....$52.38 approx b/4 close
Excerpts:
By John O'Dell, Times Staff Writer
OK, the Smart car isn't that smart.
Zap made a big publicity splash with its plans to sell the tiny two-seat coupe, promoting it as the most efficient gasoline-powered vehicle ever at 60 miles to the gallon and lining up thousands of orders.
But before the French-made ultra-mini could even think about hitting U.S. roads, the Environmental Protection Agency ordered the Santa Rosa, Calif., auto importer to scale back its fuel-efficiency claims.
The federal agency's fuel economy estimate for the Smart car isn't 60 miles per gallon — it's 37, sort of like a Honda Civic.
At 37 mpg, the Smart would have the ninth-best rating in the EPA's rankings for 2005.
It would be in league with the much bigger Toyota Echo and certain models of the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic and behind the 50-mpg gas-electric hybrids sold by Honda Motor Co. and Toyota Motor Corp.
http://tinyurl.com/4lcqk
Such economies of scale help offset the added cost of making hybrids and allow Toyota make a profit on the models. "In the initial stage it was rather difficult to make money" but now "we do make a profit," Ishizaka said. "Otherwise we might say we like to limit the numbers, but we are expanding." Even Toyota is hedging its bets, however. It is working hard to boost the percentage of diesel-powered cars it sells in Europe, which currently accounts for around 36 percent of its sales. It is also rolling out a new 2.2-litre diesel motor it makes in Poland.
(( Everyone knew that already..diesel is entrenched in Europe and Hybrids are basically a "new phenomenon"..:) ))
That will end about 2015 when ALL of Toyota's line is Hybridized....
It is nice to have dreams. All hybrid vehicles will never happen. Within two years diesel cars will outsell hybrids in the US. I am sure Toyota is aware of that and ramping up diesel production to meet that need. Gas/Hybrids DO NOT solve the energy crisis. They only postpone it a very short time. We need vehicles that will run on home grown fuel, not OPEC fuel. Fuel cells are becoming a joke. Since the inception they were always 10-20 years in the future. That was 30 years ago and they are still 10-20 years in the future. They do not address fossil fuel usage either. Solar is another "Pie in the SKY" that has gotten lots of media attention and little progress in the last 50 years. They still cost more than they can produce in their life cycle. Dreaming is nice, not always realistic.
Notice how the Hybrids *were not* the cars which were off by the most MPG from EPA:
"Among vehicles that were farthest off of EPA: 2004 BMW Z4 sports car, which AAA says hit just 14.5 miles per gallon in combined city-highway use, vs. 24 mpg EPA rating; Chevrolet TrailBlazer SUV, 13.6 mpg in AAA testing vs. 17 mpg EPA rating; Chrysler PT Cruiser, 17.5 mpg from AAA vs. 25 mpg EPA rating."
http://tinyurl.com/6t7ct
Here is a better page, with more cars and trucks listed including some Hybrids:
http://tinyurl.com/5f8ov
By the way, this strongly enhances my argument from other boards and this discussion where I have pointed out that MANY cars fail to achieve EPA Miles Per Gallon numbers - it is not a Hybrid phenomenon.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=493&e=3&u=/ap/film_minute__cool__cars
Okay, here's why this doesn't work in the movie. In the original, 'Get Shorty', Travolta drives a minivan, which truly was NOT a cool vehicle, but his characters makes it cool. That was great. Now in the new movie, they're trying the same shtick but with a hybrid (Insight). For this to work, the hybrid would have to be an "uncool" vehicle. However, with all the hybrid buzz, they are definitely the "cool" vehicle of the moment, so the whole thing falls flat and just becomes an environmental/political statement. These kind of jarringly out-of-place political statements (of any kind) add nothing to the plot and detract from the story. IMHO.
Product endorsments tend to backfire many times if they're presented in the wrong way (shoved down our throats). Some work and some don't. Take the movie "Bullitt" Steve McQueen did for Mustangs what sidewalk airvents did for Marilyn Monroe. Take the movie "GOLDFINGER" Sean Connery did for Austin Martins what the moonwalk did for Michael Jackson. Take the movie "THE ITALIAN JOB", Mini Coopers were a big success just after that flick. Another Bond flick with the BMW Z-3 had people getting in line to buy them. Now if I could just remember the bombs that failed the products. Later.....
Culliganman (love da movies)
Diesel = 80+ MPG
Hybrid = momentary bursts of extra power for fast acceleration
The gasoline hybrid engine will eventually become extinct.
troy
Before that Gasoline engine will become extinct followed by Diesel and then LPG. The World that knows how to get rid of 500 million + (approx) gasoline vehicles will also learn to remove 300 million + Diesel and 10 million + LPG vehicles.
Future will have only Hybrids with Plugin in the mix.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/business/technology/11053948.htm
(sorry Gary)
Over the years CR has said a lot of things I disagreed with from which was the best underwear to the best Cell Phones and cameras. Most of the time they are DEAD WRONG. Why should I believe what they have to say about cars.
PS
I don't believe Toyota either and I sold all my Enron a year before they imploded.
Or, taking samples from thousands of people (who can and probably do all LIE !!) is invalid data.
(puh-leeze Gary - you risk total loss or cred if you can't believe a historically accurate and credible testing source like CU.)
Our income is derived from the sale of CONSUMER REPORTS and other publications and information services, and from nonrestrictive, noncommercial contributions, grants and fees.
http://www.consumersunion.org/aboutcu/about.html
Since you are a "trust but verify" person, maybe you can tell us how you verified that CR does actually accept advertising money--which it seems you are implying--contrary to their public statements.
Anyway, since this is a hybrid-in-the-news discussion, here's some more news about hybrids: hybrids took two of the top three spots for small cars in CR's annual auto survey of 810,000 people for the question, "If you had to do it all over again, would you still buy that car?" (or words to that effect). Prius was #1 (actually #1 overall), and HCH was #3 for small cars among the 250,000 people surveyed who answered the question.
http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0404sat0.html
They said they do not accept advertising only contributions. People that contribute money to something other than religious or humanitarian causes, generally expect something in return. Like when you contribute $150,000 to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom. I'm implying that those that contribute want something from CU other than a free subscription to the magazine.
I don't see any verification or facts there, just insinuations without anything to back them up. Let's stick to facts and links to stuff on hybrids and leave the conspiracy theories to TV and movies and books.
Well, to you I owe an apology. I have never known of anyone that contributed to CR. You do have a vested interest and are offended by my allegations of impropriety. My hats off to you as I doubt seriously you were trying to sway their reports.