Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

benjaminh

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:

benjaminh said:

And my local BMW dealer says that you can lease a new 320i xdrive for 299 a month with nothing down....

https://www.louisvillebmw.com/new-specials.html

"Plus tax, tag, title, acquisition fee, dealer fees, first payment, and dealer added features."

That leaves much to the imagination.

BMW of Louisville has upped the the Doc fee to $499(I Think) as well as adding mandatory chargers for mop n' glow and wheel locks About $1,500 in all...

My wife's new 2018 CR-V was marked up from msrp by $2995 with dealer installed stuff like wheel locks, all-weather mats, paint protection, etc. Right from the get-go I said we didn't want any of it—and immediately they said we could have it all for free. I've had similar experiences in the past, and so maybe the same thing would work at a BMW dealer? On the doc fee, however, that's just the way it goes here in KY. I've had no luck at all getting that reduced.

roadburner

benjaminh said:

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:

benjaminh said:

And my local BMW dealer says that you can lease a new 320i xdrive for 299 a month with nothing down....

https://www.louisvillebmw.com/new-specials.html

"Plus tax, tag, title, acquisition fee, dealer fees, first payment, and dealer added features."

That leaves much to the imagination.

BMW of Louisville has upped the the Doc fee to $499(I Think) as well as adding mandatory chargers for mop n' glow and wheel locks About $1,500 in all...

My wife's new 2018 CR-V was marked up from msrp by $2995 with dealer installed stuff like wheel locks, all-weather mats, paint protection, etc. Right from the get go I said we didn't want any of it—and immediately they said we could have it all for free. I've had similar experiences in the past, and so maybe the same thing would work at a BMW dealer? On the doc fee, however, that's just the way it goes here in KY. I've had no luck at all getting that reduced.

The the two salespeople I still know there(the rest either quit or were purged by the new GM) told me that the add-ons aren't negotiable- and they are disgusted with it as well. The new GM is well on his way to creating a BMW dealership that has the sales atmosphere of a Kia store; the new salespeople are pushy and my dog and cat know more about BMWs than they do.

fintail

I think the Sixt fleet is pretty highly rated, although all Euro fleets will be a level above what we have here.

I've had good experiences with Sixt in Germany, and nice cars (among them 7er, A8, F-type cabrio) - I think their best fleet is in Germany, but a C-class is definitely a normal rental in the UK, too.

corvette said:

I'm traveling to London next month. Will probably spend a couple days tooling around outside the city. Does anyone have car rental recommendations? Is Sixt the best? Would prefer something like a C-class.

stickguy

Get a small car. Really small.

benjaminh

@Michaell: when is your current lease up?

Michaell

benjaminh said:

@Michaell: when is your current lease up?

I have 13 more payments to make on the Jetta.

au1994

Do 4 legged punches count?

benjaminh

Michaell said:

benjaminh said:

@Michaell: when is your current lease up?

I have 13 more payments to make on the Jetta.

Oh, so you have a long way to go....! In fact, by the time you're done with your Jetta the expected all-new 2020 TLX might even be out.

corvette

roadburner said:

And my local BMW dealer says that you can lease a new 320i xdrive for 299 a month with nothing down.... https://www.louisvillebmw.com/new-specials.html

"Plus tax, tag, title, acquisition fee, dealer fees, first payment, and dealer added features." That leaves much to the imagination.

BMW of Louisville has upped the the Doc fee to $499(I Think) as well as adding mandatory chargers for mop n' glow and wheel locks About $1,500 in all...

My wife's new 2018 CR-V was marked up from msrp by $2995 with dealer installed stuff like wheel locks, all-weather mats, paint protection, etc. Right from the get go I said we didn't want any of it—and immediately they said we could have it all for free. I've had similar experiences in the past, and so maybe the same thing would work at a BMW dealer? On the doc fee, however, that's just the way it goes here in KY. I've had no luck at all getting that reduced.

The the two salespeople I still know there(the rest either quit or were purged by the new GM) told me that the add-ons aren't negotiable- and they are disgusted with it as well. The new GM is well on his way to creating a BMW dealership that has the sales atmosphere of a Kia store; the new salespeople are pushy and my dog and cat know more about BMWs than they do.

That’s not encouraging. 

corvette

au1994 said:

Do 4 legged punches count?

Awww, too cute! 

suydam

stickguy said:

I think I have done my last black interior.

Our very first new car had a black interior. Never again. Our Encore is black exterior with a light grey cloth interior which is fine and does not heat up. The Volt has a nice brandy colored leather.

suydam

stickguy said:

Get a small car. Really small.

Second that.

au1994

suydam said:

stickguy said:

Get a small car. Really small.

Second that.

Yep, smaller is better and I’d recommend not picking it up until you head outside of the city. London traffic is brutal.

As for companies, Sixt is a good call. Brush up on your manual skills if they are not sharp. Most of the time even if you request an auto, its not guaranteed in Europe.

fintail

I think Sixt has automatic-only categories in standard or full size groups (ACRISS codes SDAR or FDAR) and above. For smaller cars, there's a significant chance of a manual.

stickguy

The auto costs a lot more too. Like double. Next time I’m getting a polo manual trans. Still scarred from piloting a Land Rover around small town Ireland.

Michaell

au1994 said:

Do 4 legged punches count?

Quite photogenic, already!

Michaell

benjaminh said:

Michaell said:

benjaminh said:

@Michaell: when is your current lease up?

I have 13 more payments to make on the Jetta.

Oh, so you have a long way to go....! In fact, by the time you're done with your Jetta the expected all-new 2020 TLX might even be out.

A "long way"? Nah, not in this thread. I was test driving potential replacements last summer, too.

It's good to have CCBA friends living in the same metro area, to bounce ideas off of, and to help evaluate during test drives.

To review, this is what I've tested, so far:
Nissan Maxima
Mazda 6 (stick shift)
Honda Accord 1.5T Sport
Hyundai Elantra Sport
Infiniti Q40 (CPO)
Acura TLX (CPO)

On the "to do" list:
Volvo S60 (CPO)
Infiniti Q50 (CPO) - ideally with the old 3.7 V6
Lexus IS and ES (CPO)
Honda Civic EX-T Sedan

I'm not likely to go new with a luxury brand - it'll either be a relatively inexpensive lease or a purchase of a CPO, which I'll keep for a good, long time.

28firefighter

I would also add an Accord Sport 2.0T to the list.

stickguy

I like your list. I would look at most of them too. Maybe some model differences (accord EX instead of sport). If I change, and buy something, it will be intended to last ten years too. But more likely I lease. Otherwise can keep the new car I have, with the 10 year warranty!

If I do, will be ramping up plans to flip the RDX while it still has good equity.

stickguy

Also, you should drive a 2019 Jetta R line. You might really like it.

Michaell

28firefighter said:

I would also add an Accord Sport 2.0T to the list.

Yes, I should go back and try the Accord 2.0T Sport - they weren't available when I drove the 1.5T.

I've also test driven a GTI and a GLI (both stick shifts)

I'm very much on the fence about whether I want one more manual transmission-ed vehicle.

The Civic and Elantra Sport both have them available (as do both the VWs), and with the small number of miles I drive (6000/yr), I don't think it would be a big problem. The last stick I had in the fleet was the 2003 Focus ZX5.

stickguy

I debate the stick option too. And seem to never go back. It is easier to have the auto for family sharing. Plus, gives me an excuse to eventually buy a toy. Though I also want a truck.

So I guess, need to find a stick shift pickup truck!

pensfan83

Enterprise gave me a black 2017 Equinox as a loaner while the Acura gets repaired, 33K on the clock. Only drove it a few miles from the shop but I already can say I hate the steering. It's overboosted and numb. I'll post additional impressions later.

iluvmysephia1

Ford is supposedly bringing a new world order Ranger back, stick. Grab a stick version of that.

au1994

Must have missed it @pensfan83. Was the TLX in an accident?

pensfan83

au1994 said:

Must have missed it @pensfan83. Was the TLX in an accident?

Not really an accident as the car was stationary. A little over a week ago the rear quarter panel and bumper were scraped by someone who then drove off. Had to bite the bullet and file a claim to get it fixed.

au1994

pensfan83 said:

au1994 said:

Must have missed it @pensfan83. Was the TLX in an accident?

Not really an accident as the car was stationary. A little over a week ago the rear quarter panel and bumper were scraped by someone who then drove off. Had to bite the bullet and file a claim to get it fixed.

Ouch.

qbrozen

au1994 said:

Do 4 legged punches count?

We just picked one of those up, too. It was this past Friday. Different model, different size, and different color. About 10 weeks old. Will be parked next to the 3-yr-old black lab.

au1994

qbrozen said:

au1994 said:

Do 4 legged punches count?

We just picked one of those up, too. It was this past Friday. Different model, different size, and different color. About 10 weeks old. Will be parked next to the 3-yr-old black lab.

That’s awesome! My dad has a saying..”there are 2 things in life that you never ‘just go take a look’ and that’s puppies and a new car”. Inevitably you come home with something new!

He’s the OG CCBA’er. I’ll have to sit down with him and figure out how many cars he and my mom have had. I think for a while in the 80’s he was single handily keeping Oldsmobile running.

qbrozen

our goal was to find a playmate for our lab. Was in no way thinking "puppy" but the shelter had no older dogs that were a good fit and they pulled out this newer model as we were about to leave, and the family fell in love. Typical sales tactic!

jpp75

stickguy said:

The auto costs a lot more too. Like double. Next time I’m getting a polo manual trans. Still scarred from piloting a Land Rover around small town Ireland.

I'm headed to Switzerland tomorrow for a couple of weeks and for part of the time I have a manual BMW 218i "or similar" reserved.

I would have used Sixt but I have free days through National so this is partly done through Enterprise due to the connection National has with them.

jpp75

I sent this to @Michaell and @Breld last night. I'll be curious to see what it goes for:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1989-honda-accord/

28firefighter

@michaell - in addition to the bigger 2.0T engine (which is noticeably quicker than the 1.5T), the Sport 2.0T adds some extra goodies on top of the Sport 1.5T, most importantly heated seats. There were a few other differences, but I found it to be amazingly well equipped for the money. I'd say the weak link in the Sport is the audio - it is truly horrendous.

stickguy

Iluv, I do like the new ranger. But there won’t be a stick version. And it will be expensive.

28firefighter

What about a lease on a manual Tacoma?

stickguy

Love that generation. Too bad it isn’t a 5 speed.

benjaminh

I still don't really understand leases. My TLX Tech had a list price of 37,600. 36 x my monthly payment of 229 gives a total amount paid over the course of the three year lease of about $8300. Walking into the dealer I thought I had equity in my previous car of about 4500, but they ended up giving me 5700. Anyway, even using the higher number the total amount I put into the TLX over three years is a very significant 14,000, and included in that was a blizzard of fees and taxes—699 acquisition fee, 500 document fee, title, sales tax, etc., etc.

But the residual value set by Honda for a 2018 TLX Tech 2.4 is 49%, giving a possible purchase price at the end of the lease of $18,350. If I buy at the end of the lease, the net effect of it all seems to me to be something like this 37,600 msrp - 5700 trade equity - 8300 in payments - 5250 discount by Acura/the dealer = final purchase price of 18,350. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it almost seems like most of those taxes and fees—at least from my perspective—have almost vanished if I end up purchasing at the end.

kyfdx

benjaminh said:

I still don't really understand leases. My TLX Tech had a list price of 37,600. 36 x my monthly payment of 229 gives a total amount paid over the course of the three year lease of about $8300. Walking into the dealer I thought I had equity in my previous car of about 4500, but they ended up giving me 5700. Anyway, even using the higher number the total amount I put into the TLX over three years is a very significant 14,000, and included in that was a blizzard of fees and taxes—699 acquisition fee, 500 document fee, title, sales tax, etc., etc.

But the residual value set by Honda for a 2018 TLX Tech 2.4 is 49%, giving a possible purchase price at the end of the lease of $18,350. If I buy at the end of the lease, the net effect of it all seems to me to be something like this 37,600 msrp - 5700 trade equity - 8300 in payments - 5250 discount by Acura/the dealer = final purchase price of 18,350. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it almost seems like most of those taxes and fees—at least from my perspective—have almost vanished if I end up purchasing at the end.

I'm pretty sure we could lay out the exact math with a scan of the contract, and show exactly where every penny goes. It's not that complicated.

jpp75

stickguy said:

Love that generation. Too bad it isn’t a 5 speed.

Agreed. The 90 - 93 was probably my favorite but this is a very close second. Still at $3,400 with just over an hour to go.

benjaminh

kyfdx said:

benjaminh said:

I still don't really understand leases. My TLX Tech had a list price of 37,600. 36 x my monthly payment of 229 gives a total amount paid over the course of the three year lease of about $8300. Walking into the dealer I thought I had equity in my previous car of about 4500, but they ended up giving me 5700. Anyway, even using the higher number the total amount I put into the TLX over three years is a very significant 14,000, and included in that was a blizzard of fees and taxes—699 acquisition fee, 500 document fee, title, sales tax, etc., etc.

But the residual value set by Honda for a 2018 TLX Tech 2.4 is 49%, giving a possible purchase price at the end of the lease of $18,350. If I buy at the end of the lease, the net effect of it all seems to me to be something like this 37,600 msrp - 5700 trade equity - 8300 in payments - 5250 discount by Acura/the dealer = final purchase price of 18,350. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it almost seems like most of those taxes and fees—at least from my perspective—have almost vanished if I end up purchasing at the end.

I'm pretty sure we could lay out the exact math with a scan of the contract, and show exactly where every penny goes. It's not that complicated.

That would be interesting, but right now I'm on a trip and don't have my contract in front of me. One thing I couldn't even find on the contract was the MF....?

au1994

benjaminh said:

I still don't really understand leases. My TLX Tech had a list price of 37,600. 36 x my monthly payment of 229 gives a total amount paid over the course of the three year lease of about $8300. Walking into the dealer I thought I had equity in my previous car of about 4500, but they ended up giving me 5700. Anyway, even using the higher number the total amount I put into the TLX over three years is a very significant 14,000, and included in that was a blizzard of fees and taxes—699 acquisition fee, 500 document fee, title, sales tax, etc., etc.

But the residual value set by Honda for a 2018 TLX Tech 2.4 is 49%, giving a possible purchase price at the end of the lease of $18,350. If I buy at the end of the lease, the net effect of it all seems to me to be something like this 37,600 msrp - 5700 trade equity - 8300 in payments - 5250 discount by Acura/the dealer = final purchase price of 18,350. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it almost seems like most of those taxes and fees—at least from my perspective—have almost vanished if I end up purchasing at the end.

You got a great deal. There may have been some trunk money for the dealer so they could come in strong on the trade. I’m sure I’m a little upside down on the X1 but with the incentives on the remaining 18’s I could still probably lower my monthly payment by a bit. The X1 does everything I need it to do though so it I’d just be doing it to satisfy the CCBA itch. But I do really like the TLX.

tifighter

jpp5862 said:

stickguy said:

The auto costs a lot more too. Like double. Next time I’m getting a polo manual trans. Still scarred from piloting a Land Rover around small town Ireland.

I'm headed to Switzerland tomorrow for a couple of weeks and for part of the time I have a manual BMW 218i "or similar" reserved.

I would have used Sixt but I have free days through National so this is partly done through Enterprise due to the connection National has with them.

Just got back from there. Where are you flying into?

breld

jpp5862 said:

stickguy said:

Love that generation. Too bad it isn’t a 5 speed.

Agreed. The 90 - 93 was probably my favorite but this is a very close second. Still at $3,400 with just over an hour to go.

I like the hatchback from that late '80's era Accord, and yes, I'd prefer a manual for such a car. I would also hope the extra molding they stuck on would peel off - that's horrendous.

The Sentra SE-R from BAT that @jpp5862 and @michaell also sent me is interesting as well, but at $7,400 current bid, seems a bit rich.

stickguy

Lease buyers only care about money down and the payment usually.

In your tally, add another couple grand for taxes and DMV fees to buy it out. Add it all up, and easy to compare to buying it instead up front.

Bottom line, Acura threw a lot of money into the deal to move the car. You are just paying interest on the actual sales price (minuscule, since interest rate is very low) and depreciation over 3 years. Plus tax and DMV up front (the acquisition fee I just consider part of the sales price).

Your trade complicates the transaction. I have never traded a car into a lease, and any trade is always a shell game anyway.

stickguy

I am not a big fan of the current Tacoma. My wife would hate it.

breld

Motor Trend had a fun review of the new Veloster in the current issue. The writer declared that if you were a kid lusting after your neighbor's Eclipse Turbo or Integra GS-R back in the day, then this was the modern day version of it.

A bit of hyperbole I'd imagine, but it was an interesting read. I have a soft spot for the Veloster after briefly owning one a while back (for my stepdaughter), and I quite like the update Hyundai made for the current version. Still has character, but sharper lines and a bit less goofy.

breld

Here's what the author said...

If you were a little kid longing to drive your cool neighbor’s Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo, Acura Integra GS-R, or Toyota Celica GT-S, the Veloster Turbo R-Spec is those cars for these times. It delivers every bit as much performance, personality, and swagger as those coupes did in their day, adding 21st century tech like Normal/Sport driving modes, engine sound enhancement (which can be turned off!), and a bright, reconfigurable head-up display for monitoring the tach. Worthy of special mention is the B&M Racing machined aluminum shifter and linkage, which feels great in the hand and operates with Honda/Mazda precision.

If the handling feels like the boss of BMW M’s dynamics team came to work for Hyundai/Kia, that’s because he did—developing this car as the basis for Hyundai North America’s first all-out performance model, the Veloster N, due this September. The R-Spec is a rung down from that one, but its body-motion control is exemplary, it steers with linear precision (and slightly artificial feel), and it hangs on in corners at least as well as any Civic Si or Focus ST, yet its ride is remarkably supple (like a BMW’s).

ab348

pensfan83 said:

Enterprise gave me a black 2017 Equinox as a loaner while the Acura gets repaired, 33K on the clock. Only drove it a few miles from the shop but I already can say I hate the steering. It's overboosted and numb. I'll post additional impressions later.

Tell us if you can find a comfortable driving position. I have heard several complaints about the seat.

corvette

benjaminh said:

I still don't really understand leases. My TLX Tech had a list price of 37,600. 36 x my monthly payment of 229 gives a total amount paid over the course of the three year lease of about $8300. Walking into the dealer I thought I had equity in my previous car of about 4500, but they ended up giving me 5700. Anyway, even using the higher number the total amount I put into the TLX over three years is a very significant 14,000, and included in that was a blizzard of fees and taxes—699 acquisition fee, 500 document fee, title, sales tax, etc., etc. But the residual value set by Honda for a 2018 TLX Tech 2.4 is 49%, giving a possible purchase price at the end of the lease of $18,350. If I buy at the end of the lease, the net effect of it all seems to me to be something like this 37,600 msrp - 5700 trade equity - 8300 in payments - 5250 discount by Acura/the dealer = final purchase price of 18,350. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it almost seems like most of those taxes and fees—at least from my perspective—have almost vanished if I end up purchasing at the end.

I'm pretty sure we could lay out the exact math with a scan of the contract, and show exactly where every penny goes. It's not that complicated.

That would be interesting, but right now I'm on a trip and don't have my contract in front of me. One thing I couldn't even find on the contract was the MF....?

They don’t put that on there because they want to be able to hide it when they mark it up! 

pensfan83

breld said:

I like the hatchback from that late '80's era Accord, and yes, I'd prefer a manual for such a car. I would also hope the extra molding they stuck on would peel off - that's horrendous.

The Sentra SE-R from BAT that @jpp5862 and @michaell also sent me is interesting as well, but at $7,400 current bid, seems a bit rich.

That seems to be what the market is bearing for all of the 90's Japanese "classics" like the GS-R, SE-R, EM1 Civic Si, ITR, etc. Some of the prices they go for are 50%-80% of what they fetched brand new 20 years ago.