Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

mjfloyd1 said:

I don’t like the inexpensive looking interiors in Teslas.  I would not like having to look at the center console to see the speedometer in the Tesla 3.

I like having a “loud” pedal. The harder you push it, the louder the motor gets. 

It is also interesting to hear “zero emissions.” They really just have super long tailpipes that go back to the power plant. Someone near those power plants is breathing those emissions. 

Ah, but it is really just playing with words. The vehicle truly is zero emissions because it is not emitting anything.

Mr_Shiftright

xwesx said:

I popped in to post a message I received from Tesla. No real surprise here, given their vehicles no longer qualify for the federal rebate incentive:

We are proud to announce the $35,000 Tesla Model 3.

With 220 miles of range, a 5.6 second 0–60mph and over-the-air updates, Model 3 Standard Range is now available to order at $35,000 before incentives. Although lower in cost, it is built to achieve the same perfect 5-star safety rating as the longer-ranged version, which has the lowest probability of injury of any car ever tested by the U.S. government.
In addition, we are also introducing Model 3 Standard Range Plus. For 6% more money, you get 9% more range, more power, and an upgraded interior.

Lastly, we’ve lowered the base price of all Model 3, Model S and Model X trims, and updated our Autopilot packages to be even more compelling.

With today’s updates, we’ve taken a significant step towards allowing everyone to buy a Tesla, and accelerating the transition to sustainable transportation.

The second part of that story is that Tesla is cutting out showrooms and laying off sales and demo force to pay for this. Aside from a few densely-populated markets, the Tesla 3 and in fact all Teslas, will be sold mail-order, so to speak. (online).

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-closing-stores-online-only-sales/

stickguy

They just built a good sized showroom near me in south jersey, outside philly. I think it opened last fall. Never been in it, but can see cars inside

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

mjfloyd1 said:

I don’t like the inexpensive looking interiors in Teslas.  I would not like having to look at the center console to see the speedometer in the Tesla 3.

I like having a “loud” pedal. The harder you push it, the louder the motor gets. 

It is also interesting to hear “zero emissions.” They really just have super long tailpipes that go back to the power plant. Someone near those power plants is breathing those emissions. 

Ah, but it is really just playing with words. The vehicle truly is zero emissions because it is not emitting anything.

One could argue that pushing emissions to more remote locations is better than having it belched out right in a major metropolis. I think bragging rights on any individual Tesla depends on where you live and how you get your electricity. If your powerplant is right in town, and it burns natural gas (or worse yet, coal) then at best you only get the Tesla Bronze--but if the plant is in the Nevada desert and it uses mostly wind and solar (or thermal), then you get the Gold.

kyfdx

I'll guess that it's cheaper and more efficient to scrub emissions at one power plant, than at the exhaust pipe of 10,000 vehicles.

There is definitely a pollution issue with even electric vehicles, but much less than gasoline/diesel. Manufacture and disposal pollution levels are another issue (with all vehicles).

Where we live, we burn coal and natural gas for our power.

kyfdx

Spotted a Volvo C30 today. In a dusty gray/blue color. I like those a lot.

henryn

stickguy said:

this seems like a lot of car for the money. Compared to what new cars go for, could spend Corolla money and have a nice big luxury car for many years. And even has a non-black interior!

https://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Toyota/2018-Toyota-Avalon-cherry-hill-nj-d6d678750a0e0ae77eaea19ecf4b7ec7.htm

I agree, that is a lot of car for the money. I could see myself owning something like that.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Do you mean a 30% penalty when the engine is cold? But once it warms up in 5 mins or so, the efficiency normalizes, yes? Because I have never in my life experienced the kind of efficiency loss in any of my ICE vehicles that I experienced in our Leaf. The roughly 5% loss in cold weather I see in our ICE vehicles I blame on winter blend fuel that is forced upon us. 

Most of the loss occurs while the "engine" is cold, but, and it depends much on the actual temperatures, many of the parts take a lot longer to warm (such as differentials), and the loss is pretty harsh regardless. For example, I typically get 30 mpg in my Q7 during summer on trips to anchorage. Winter is 24 or so, and that's a lot of hours driving at highway speeds.

If temps are near or above about 20 degrees, they don't have much of an effect. Below that, and it starts to become noticeable. Below -20F, and you can actually feel the distinct sluggishness of the vehicle as you start to move, and -20F is drastically less sluggish than -40, which itself is substantially less sluggish than -50....

qbrozen

xwesx said:

Do you mean a 30% penalty when the engine is cold? But once it warms up in 5 mins or so, the efficiency normalizes, yes? Because I have never in my life experienced the kind of efficiency loss in any of my ICE vehicles that I experienced in our Leaf. The roughly 5% loss in cold weather I see in our ICE vehicles I blame on winter blend fuel that is forced upon us. 

Most of the loss occurs while the "engine" is cold, but, and it depends much on the actual temperatures, many of the parts take a lot longer to warm (such as differentials), and the loss is pretty harsh regardless. For example, I typically get 30 mpg in my Q7 during summer on trips to anchorage. Winter is 24 or so, and that's a lot of hours driving at highway speeds. If temps are near or above about 20 degrees, they don't have much of an effect. Below that, and it starts to become noticeable. Below -20F, and you can actually feel the distinct sluggishness of the vehicle as you start to move, and -20F is drastically less sluggish than -40, which itself is substantially less sluggish than -50....

Well, sure, Alaska is going to be an extreme, but I’m willing to bet an EV drops way more there, too. I saw as much as a 35% decrease below 20 degrees in the Leaf, and that was with my teeth chattering because I couldn’t run the heater and make it home. Another 40 degrees below that has to be brutal.

roadburner

henryn said:

this seems like a lot of car for the money. Compared to what new cars go for, could spend Corolla money and have a nice big luxury car for many years. And even has a non-black interior! https://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Toyota/2018-Toyota-Avalon-cherry-hill-nj-d6d678750a0e0ae77eaea19ecf4b7ec7.htm

I agree, that is a lot of car for the money. I could see myself owning something like that.

Maybe in 38 more years- when I’m pushing 100...

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Well, sure, Alaska is going to be an extreme, but I’m willing to bet an EV drops way more there, too. I saw as much as a 35% decrease below 20 degrees in the Leaf, and that was with my teeth chattering because I couldn’t run the heater and make it home. Another 40 degrees below that has to be brutal.

Were you able to plug in at work? I imagine that the loss in battery efficiency will depend somewhat on whether the cells are being charged prior to driving it, assuming the vehicle is at ambient (cold) temps and not in a garage. Even if charging on 110, stone cold versus a trickle charge will make a major difference in the battery drain once you start driving.

I have a co-worker who has a newer Volt (2017?), and a Prius before that. He says that winter doesn't seem to affect him much differently in those cars, but he keeps it plugged in at work when cold and it is garaged at home. Also, not pure electric, so the ICE might actually improve the economy in winter. Hahaha.

And, perhaps strangely, my buddy with the C-Max tends to not run the heater in his car in the winter so that he can maximize battery range (voluntarily). His kids hate that. Honestly, I don't know how he can do that and not get his windshield icing up. If I ever think to ask....

nyccarguy

I just spec'd out a Tesla Model 3 with RWD (standard range plus), 19" Sport Wheels, & Auto Pilot. Sticker price of $41,500 minus $3,750 Federal Tax Credit & $2,000 CT State Tax Credit. I like the fact it comes with an 8 year/100K warranty too. Maybe in a few years the price will come down once the tax credits are gone and the quality goes up.

I'm not sure if it is worth the extra $10K for a Dual Motor (AWD) model

28firefighter

Presumes Tesla will be around for 8 years/100k miles...

mjfloyd1

What could go wrong with Elon Musk steering the ship?

qbrozen

I don't trust they'll be around even long enough to deliver my car, if I ordered one.

mjfloyd1

qbrozen said:

I don’t like the inexpensive looking interiors in Teslas.  I would not like having to look at the center console to see the speedometer in the Tesla 3.

I like having a “loud” pedal. The harder you push it, the louder the motor gets. 

It is also interesting to hear “zero emissions.” They really just have super long tailpipes that go back to the power plant. Someone near those power plants is breathing those emissions. 

Ah, but it is really just playing with words. The vehicle truly is zero emissions because it is not emitting anything.

I get it. No tailpipe = no emissions. But the power comes from somewhere. And the emissions, unless solar, hydraulic or nuclear, go somewhere - usually in the Midwest. 

 Making solar panels, batteries and nuclear power are not exactly clean processes. 

I live in Indiana and we burn coal and natural gas. They built a “coal gasification “ plant not too far from me. 

fintail

If was getting a 3, it'd be a Dual Motor. Might as well go all in.

Maybe in 5 years infrastructure and tech will make it more attractive. Maybe interiors will improve by then too.

mjfloyd1

kyfdx said:

Scoped out a new design 3 series today at the dealer. Looked, just like a 3 series! Nice though, new interior looked good but did not see Panel dash lit up. But pricey. A 330i run up to $57k. M sport, premium, executive(?), looked like everything they could throw in short of 2 more cylinders. Cheaper than the $83k M3 at least!

I know I'm biased, but who buys this over a Model 3 Dual Motor, with an extra 100hp and autopilot for the same money?

Nobody buys a 3 series, they just lease 'em. Teslas don't lease well (yet). Just wait for inventory to pile up.

Yeah... that, too.

My sons (12 & almost 10) like Teslas. They think Teslas are cool when we see them on the highway. Not as cool as a Hellcat Challenger, but cool none the less.

The Model S looks amazing.. the rest, not so much (sorry, @tifighter ) But, why aren't they just S, 3, X, instead of Model 3, Model S, Model X? I can see referring to them that way in print (maybe), but to have "Model" on the back of the car just seems weird.

The funniest description of a model X that I have read is “mutated Volkswagen Beetle”

qbrozen

mjfloyd1 said:

I get it. No tailpipe = no emissions. But the power comes from somewhere. And the emissions, unless solar, hydraulic or nuclear, go somewhere - usually in the Midwest. 

 Making solar panels, batteries and nuclear power are not exactly clean processes. 

I live in Indiana and we burn coal and natural gas. They built a “coal gasification “ plant not too far from me. 

Oh, believe me, I get where you are coming from. But the marketing folks don't care.

mjfloyd1

My comments to @breld are veiled. 

In addition to diabetes, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer.  I’m 54. 

February was a bad month. 

Oddly, the diabetes may have saved me. I am an MD and asked them to check a PSA with my blood work for diabetes. 

marcogallo1986

Happy Friday. All! I loved  reading all above. I do get whair you are all cumming frome 

nyccarguy

mjfloyd1 said:

My comments to @breld are veiled. 

In addition to diabetes, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer.  I’m 54. 

February was a bad month. 

Oddly, the diabetes may have saved me. I am an MD and asked them to check a PSA with my blood work for diabetes. 

Ouch! Hang in there!

28firefighter

mjfloyd1 said:

My comments to @breld are veiled. 

In addition to diabetes, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer.  I’m 54. 

February was a bad month. 

Oddly, the diabetes may have saved me. I am an MD and asked them to check a PSA with my blood work for diabetes. 

Oh, no no no. So sorry to hear this, @mjfloyd1. We're all behind you.

mjfloyd1

Looks like a robotic radical prostatectomy is next up. 

ab348

All good wishes to you, @mjfloyd1 . I have been on a not-so merry-go-round of tests and procedures for a few years now so I know how much of a strain all that can be.

kyfdx

mjfloyd1 said:

Looks like a robotic radical prostatectomy is next up. 

Geez.. hang in there.

mjfloyd1

I don’t have a lot of choice. If I have radiation and fail it then surgery is very difficult. If I do surgery and fail it, I can have radiation as a backup plan. 

fintail

Indeed, best wishes mjfloyd1. My dad had a similar diagnosis when he was in his late 50s. I like to think his positive attitude helped him beat it.

On a positive note, this thing is a bit outside of my budget, but is almost exactly how I would build it, lovely

roadburner

mjfloyd1 said:

My comments to @breld are veiled. 

In addition to diabetes, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer.  I’m 54. 

February was a bad month. 

Oddly, the diabetes may have saved me. I am an MD and asked them to check a PSA with my blood work for diabetes. 

Prayers sent. 

Mr_Shiftright

That's 8 years or 100K

mjfloyd1 said:

Looks like a robotic radical prostatectomy is next up. 

Well, investigate all options: this is an interesting website. I know some of these people: Give Ken a call. He's good people and very well informed on this subject.

http://www.prostateawarenessfoundation.org/contact-us/

Michaell

@mjfloyd1 - so sorry to hear about this! You know we're pulling for you to make a full recovery.

mjfloyd1

Mr_Shiftright said:

That's 8 years or 100K

Looks like a robotic radical prostatectomy is next up. 

Well, investigate all options: this is an interesting website. I know some of these people: Give Ken a call. He's good people and very well informed on this subject. http://www.prostateawarenessfoundation.org/contact-us/

I have spoken with a radiation oncologist and a urologist. Both steer me the same direction. I’ll give Ken a call. 

I’m just trying to figure out how and when to tell my daughters

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, talk to him. He's been through it and so have many of his friends. He can lay out all the pros and cons of each type of treatment. Two of my friends found PAF to be extremely helpful, not only with the science, but with the personal issues and family matters.

breld

mjfloyd1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

That's 8 years or 100K

Looks like a robotic radical prostatectomy is next up. 

Well, investigate all options: this is an interesting website. I know some of these people: Give Ken a call. He's good people and very well informed on this subject. http://www.prostateawarenessfoundation.org/contact-us/

I have spoken with a radiation oncologist and a urologist. Both steer me the same direction. I’ll give Ken a call. 

I’m just trying to figure out how and when to tell my daughters

Oh boy - telling your daughters will certainly be tough.  How old are they?  

When my Dad was diagnosed, he was very upfront and to-the-point with my brother and I, and we very much appreciated that.  Now, he was also 84 years old, so a somewhat different situation.  

My Mom, on the other hand, likes to be more secretive and will often let my brother and I know about doctor's visits after the fact (and then once in awhile, will make us feel guilty for not attending  ).  

mjfloyd1

breld said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

That's 8 years or 100K

mjfloyd1 said:

Looks like a robotic radical prostatectomy is next up. 

Well, investigate all options: this is an interesting website. I know some of these people: Give Ken a call. He's good people and very well informed on this subject.

http://www.prostateawarenessfoundation.org/contact-us/

I have spoken with a radiation oncologist and a urologist. Both steer me the same direction. I’ll give Ken a call. 

I’m just trying to figure out how and when to tell my daughters

Oh boy - telling your daughters will certainly be tough.  How old are they?  

When my Dad was diagnosed, he was very upfront and to-the-point with my brother and I, and we very much appreciated that.  Now, he was also 84 years old, so a somewhat different situation.  

My Mom, on the other hand, likes to be more secretive and will often let my brother and I know about doctor's visits after the fact (and then once in awhile, will make us feel guilty for not attending  ).  

13 and 17

The 13 year old will be rough

tjc78

@mjfloyd1

Hang in there!  I had a bout with the big C at age 30 so I know how hard it is to hear that word.  

Your Edmund’s buddies are here if you need to talk! 

cdnpinhead

Hang in there! Your Edmund’s buddies are here if you need to talk.

Absolutely true. I had a minor brush with what you're going through recently, so can imagine how big a blow it would be when the news is not good. I had a few days to think about it while test results were being evaluated.

Consider us a support group.

ab348

Big Subaru recall, and the cause described seems quite bizarre:

https://www.autonews.com/regulation-safety/subaru-recalls-global-record-23-million-vehicles

Michaell

ab348 said:

Big Subaru recall, and the cause described seems quite bizarre:

https://www.autonews.com/regulation-safety/subaru-recalls-global-record-23-million-vehicles

Our Outback is not affected by this, but we have had a couple of notices for other recall items in the 4 years we've owned it.

xwesx

ab348 said:

Big Subaru recall, and the cause described seems quite bizarre:

https://www.autonews.com/regulation-safety/subaru-recalls-global-record-23-million-vehicles

Bizarre indeed! Seems like much ado about nothing. Good to see that they're being proactive, though; it doesn't take much these days to get a helluva black eye.

Mr_Shiftright

Given how expensive a Tesla Model 3 is, I was quite surprised at this claim made by Musk: (He was talking about Tesla closing up 250 brick and mortar outlets and relying solely on Internet sales)

"However, Musk pointed out in the email that 78 percent of all Model 3 orders were placed online and 82 percent of customers bought such models without ever taking a test drive. "

Really? Not test driving a $45K-$50K car? Well I guess some people are comfortable with that......

Of course, if this statistic is true (you never know with this guy), that still means that 22 % relied on in-store purchasing. So if you suddenly lost 22% of your sales, that would not be good, right?

omarman

"Subaru traced the malfunction to certain chemicals used in everyday products such as perfumes and fabric softeners."

Well that stinks.

qbrozen

So I am shopping for a new set of wheels. But this time only 2 wheels and propelled by my own 2 legs. Man, these things have come a long way since I picked out my red BMX at Toys R Us in the early 80s. Yet I have no desire to spend more than $150. Looks like I’ll be risking a walmart bike.

Anyway, on the car front, I sprung the $27 for the bimmercode app. So far, I have turned off the annoying fake engine sound in my car and set my wife’s car to start up in Eco mode. I’ll be playing around more with mine when I get the chance. It reads and codes the car very slowly, so I have to have a good 15 mins to spare, and who has that?

ab348

Maybe put an ad on Craigs looking for a good bike. I'm sure there are plenty hanging on garage walls that never get used.

kyfdx

Dick’s has a good selection of low-cost bikes. Maybe not $150, but $200-$250 for something that isn’t crap.

stickguy

Q, I was also going to suggest buying used. Bikes depreciate like rocks and often are barely used. If you want new, and plan to actually use it much, worth spending a little more getting a better quality one at a bike store.

qbrozen

I have been trying the used route. Craigs, Letgo, Offerup, and Ebay. Thus far, there are 3 types of listings: those that are walmart bikes priced only a few bucks less than new; those that are thousands of dollars; and those where the seller has no clue what it is other than "red and black and taking up valuable space."

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

Dick’s has a good selection of low-cost bikes. Maybe not $150, but $200-$250 for something that isn’t crap.

I'm going to swing by there tomorrow. Nothing reasonable on their website, but you never know. I picked up 2 bikes ... I think maybe in the Fall ... from there for something like $120 each. They are decent bikes, IMHO.

Sandman6472

Yes, we're all hoping you get better soon...our prayers are with you and the family for a speedy and healthy recovery!!

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Of course, if this statistic is true (you never know with this guy), that still means that 22 % relied on in-store purchasing. So if you suddenly lost 22% of your sales, that would not be good, right?

Well, that depends.... Did the brick/mortar operation cost less than the 22% lost sales? If no, then it would be good after all!