Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

28firefighter

Argh argh argh argh!

stickguy

You sure that clubman is real world quicker?

roadburner

stickguy said:

You sure that clubman is real world quicker?

A Cooper S? Probably.

roadburner

tjc78 said:

It goes back Nov 6th, so yes plenty of time.  

I’ll probably hit the pavement around Labor Day and see what’s out there.  

You might like the X2 M35i; I'm not as enamored with FWD biased AWD, but it looks to be fun.

marcogallo1986

 Finally got the 1961 Thunderbird registered today. Good to go finally. 

marcogallo1986

 Bro I see a punch in your future, and I think it’s going to be a Corbin. 

ab348

That new Mazda 3 hatch is not very easy on the eyes from the pics I've seen.

Mr_Shiftright

That's odd, that the manual transmission on the 3 is on the high end trim level--usually it's the other way 'round.

suydam

I love love me the Mazda 3 hatch. I love how well it handles, love the looks, love the interior. Nearly bought one when I wound up leasing the Volt. If Mazda would only make one with a plug, that would be my next vehicle. Oh well. One can dream.

sda

marcogallo1986 said:

 Finally got the 1961 Thunderbird registered today. Good to go finally. 

marcogallo1986 said:

 Finally got the 1961 Thunderbird registered today. Good to go finally. 

Tremendous, I know you’re excited! Post pics?

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

You got the pilot before the Q40? I thought it was the other way around. But I don't keep detailed records!

You are right. I did get the Q40 1st, then the Pilot. SO it has only been a year and 3 months since my last punch!

Use breld logic on this one, Bradd: The Pilot is your WIFE'S CAR!!!!

marcogallo1986

SDA  I am square excited this is been 3 1/2 years in the making. The first year was spent with my brother looking for the paperwork that he missed placed, then the next year was the car getting some work done at a local shop, but the two times it was there was pretty much there almost a whole year of 2017, and then the past few months taking care of some paperwork, because it turned out I didn’t have the part of the registration from the prior owner that I needed. But some forms on the DMVE site    That we filled out on the prior owners behalf, and some that we had to fill out took care of the trick, well two forms. It’s in my dad‘s name since I don’t drive, the thing is the registration is only good for a year and a classic car total will be two years like an average every day car, but not the case. Next year when I had my name on to the registration, just wanted to get it registered and on the road once and for all. 

marcogallo1986

 Have to figure out how to post pictures on here. I’m a see if I able to do it from my phone if not I need someone’s assistance in here. Because I don’t have the pictures on my computer, from my phone. But once I learn how to do it will be good to go. 

breld

ab348 said:

That new Mazda 3 hatch is not very easy on the eyes from the pics I've seen.

There is definitely some awkwardness to it, most notably at the rear pillar, where there seems to be a shortage of glass.  But overall, I like it - looks very European to me, if that makes any sense.  

Here’s a pic I took at this evenings car show outing.  

28firefighter

I can’t figure out that c pillar. Talk about one gigantic blind spot. 

Michaell

28firefighter said:

I can’t figure out that c pillar. Talk about one gigantic blind spot. 

And, the narrowing of the glass in the rear doors, too. @jpp75 sat in the back seat of the hatch and claimed he wasn't claustrophobic back there, so there's that.

The 3 sedan, in my mind, is better looking. Automatic only, but the hatch in the picture above (AWD) stickered for $29K, and the equivalent sedan was a grand cheaper.

I looked at the Impreza hatch Sport trim later on, and it also had a $28K sticker price. Straight up, the Mazda 3 sedan wins - just more grown up, and the exclusivity of AWD for Subaru has vanished.

@roadburner - the BMW booth featured an X2 M35i. But, holy mother of all that is holy, they must have had Stevie Wonder pick the colors of this example. The exterior was that greenish gold you've all likely seen pictures of, but the interior was somewhere between pumpkin and basketball orange. Garish, and not in a good way. 300 HP does make it interesting, and if you can choose a better color combo, it's likely a nice ride.

What else was there?

RS5 Sportback - this one was "grass green" and had a $97K sticker price on it.

BMW X7 - pictures do not do that grille justice. Reminds me of when Anthony Hopkins had the face mask on in "Silence of the Lambs". Also pushing $100K.

Both the new Explorer and new Aviator were there, but unavailable to get into. The Aviator is really handsome, both inside (through the window, at least) and out. Some Land Rover styling cues, but that's OK. Does anybody know what engines it will have?

Looked at the new Blazer. What a disappointment - the model there was the Premier trim and had a $46K sticker price, but it looked like it should have had a $30-35K sticker on it, based on the interior materials and construction. GM just seems, well, disappointing.

2020 Legacy was there. For all the good press it's been getting, the exterior styling is derivative. I swore it was the old model, until @breld pointed out the huge touch screen in the center of the dash, a la Volvo.

Cadillac and MB were absent. I don't think I've seen the show have this small of a footprint since the Great Recession of 2008.

Going on Wednesday these past two years has spoiled me. It's the first night, and the longest line at the show was to get pictures and autographs from the Broncos running back Philip Lindsay. Easy to get around, and see what you want to see.

venture

breld said:

ab348 said:

That new Mazda 3 hatch is not very easy on the eyes from the pics I've seen.

There is definitely some awkwardness to it, most notably at the rear pillar, where there seems to be a shortage of glass.  But overall, I like it - looks very European to me, if that makes any sense.  

Here’s a pic I took at this evenings car show outing.  




Overall I sort of like it. The beak looks like they stretched it just a little too much though. I like Mazda's. The 6GT I had is still one of my favorite all time DD.

ab348

venture said:

Overall I sort of like it. The beak looks like they stretched it just a little too much though. I like Mazda's. The 6GT I had is still one of my favorite all time DD.

Maybe it's just me but I find the last few generations of Mazda styling to be... polarizing (there's a word you don't see too much these days, I think originally coined by GM PR people for the Aztek). Noses too prominent, hatches sawed off, glass too tiny. There's just something about them that turns me off.

stickguy

I saw the new 3 in Philly. Sedan was gorgeous. The hatch, we all thought it was weird. Did not sit in it so can't comment on the visibility, but I was definitely disappointed.

qbrozen

I kept looking at that mazda3 pic above thinking I have seen something similar before. It finally hit me.




that's the 2008 Alfa MiTo, for those who may not recognize it.

fintail

I looked over a 3 hatch at the Vancouver show. The blind spot is real.

breld

qbrozen said:

I kept looking at that mazda3 pic above thinking I have seen something similar before. It finally hit me. that's the 2008 Alfa MiTo, for those who may not recognize it.

Yes!  Nice find.  Having been in Rome last year, I think I had something like that in mind subconsciously as I thought the new Mazda3 hatch looked “european.”

breld

As far as the blind spot, it’s good Mazda is generous with offering blind spot monitoring.  

au1994

I kinda like the Lincoln Nautilus. There is a light blue that it looks pretty good in. They're priced in the low to mid 50's so a TON of competition for the LUXUV dollar at that price point.

I really think Mazda and Nissan have a PR and identity crisis. I rarely see local ads for any Mazda dealers and don't recall to many national ads. The only local Nissan ads I see are screamer ads on one even runs a "got a paycheck? get a car!" type ad. As a result, the are forgotten despite how (generally) good the lineups are. Nissan has a few clunkers: Versa, Sentra and Pathfinder showing their age but the new Altima looks good and gets great reviews.

Personally, I love the CX-9, and the 6. The 3 is always a favorite as well. Love, the Maxima. I think it gets knocked for its smallish trunk and price but I think the price is pretty good. It drives wonderfully.

Michaell

Speaking of blue, the four of us decided last night that blue is the new up and coming color - we probably saw a half dozen, or more, cars in a medium blue (either metallic or flat) that just stood out.

A couple of other quick thoughts:

The new RAV4, especially in Adventure trim, is quite the handsome vehicle.

The Kia Telluride is not nearly as big as people think it is … more Pilot-sized.

stickguy

I think Mazda has traditionally been a more "coastal" car, concentrated on the west and east coasts. Never much of a player in the heartland and down south.

henryn

stickguy said:

I think Mazda has traditionally been a more "coastal" car, concentrated on the west and east coasts. Never much of a player in the heartland and down south.

Whereas Subaru is only a player in regions that exceed 4 feet of snowfall per annum?

28firefighter

henryn said:

stickguy said:

I think Mazda has traditionally been a more "coastal" car, concentrated on the west and east coasts. Never much of a player in the heartland and down south.

Whereas Subaru is only a player in regions that exceed 4 feet of snowfall per annum?

Except Seattle, where it just rains a lot and the mountains are close by.

jpp75

@michaell and @breld provided good summaries of the auto show last night, as always it was a fun time and great company.

I'll echo the sentiments on the Mazda3, I like the sedan better, the hatch isn't overly offensive and as @michaell noted I sat in the back and didn't note it to be claustrophobic. The interior is certainly premium and by far best in class.

Likewise, I was surprised at the size of the Telluride, I expected it to be taller and have more "presence" than it did.

The Blazer was a huge letdown, it's clear they're banking on that name justifying a hefty premium, the interior of the vehicle certainly doesn't live up to the price they seem to think it commands. Overall GM interiors still seem to be an afterthought and quite dull. In general I like a lot of their exterior styling, but then you get inside and it's all over. Cadillac didn't have a display, but I doubt anyone noticed besides us.

I liked the exterior styling of the Passport, very clean lines and a nice 3/4 Pilot with better lines. The interior is very Honda-esque, which isn't a bad thing. I did like the new RDX quite a bit as well.

The Aviator was one of my favorites, very handsome and an interior that is in line with the Navigator, but it also begs the question "what else could I get at this price point??"


As always a fun evening!!

breld

More on the Denver Auto Show...

Clearly, the Mazda3 was my favorite, as already discussed.

VW - they had a 2020 Passat which I thought was very sharp (R-line model). Wife and I drooled a bit over the cornflower blue GTI (think Volvo Polestar Rebel Blue), but then decided it was a bit much. No Arteon, which I thought was funny, since they had the prototype there last year.

BMW - they had a blue M-Sport 330i which I like a lot. Love the taillights on the new model.

Audi - actually had an e-Tron on display. Handsome EV that doesn't scream EV.

Kia - for its class, I really like the Telluride. If I were considering a non-luxury 3-row SUV, it would probably be between this and the CX-9. Just can't get into the looks of the Ascent.

28firefighter

Just got back from an hour or so of test drives at the local Subaru dealer. We drove a 2019 Ascent Touring and a 2019 Outback Touring.

We'll start with the Ascent first.

This car is definitely one of the biggest we have considered to date. It slots in nicely among it's competitors (Pilot, Highlander, Sorento, etc.) in terms of outward size. Personally I don't find it does anything especially impressive visually, though certain colors seem to help make it "pop" a bit more in Touring trim - namely the white and blue. For those of you who aren't aware, the Ascent comes with a 2.4L Turbo Boxer 4 engine putting out, I believe, 240 HP and 277 lb/ft of torque paired with a CVT transmission that fakes the shift points.

Inside the Touring only comes with captain's chairs and a java brown leather interior. It has lots of soft touch plastics and leather wrapped surfaces making it feel really upscale. And it should, given the MSRP pushing $47k. It comes equipped with a lot of safety nannies - the most useful of which include a front camera for parking in tight spaces and a screen built into the rearview mirror that you can activate if your cargo area is full so you can still see the road behind you. Also comes with heated and cooled front seats, heated rear seats, rear climate control, and a heated steering wheel. The seats are absolutely incredible - both front and rear - almost Volvo quality or close to it. Definitely somewhere I wouldn't mind spending an extended amount of time!

The third row is shockingly usable - I fit back there and, though I wouldn't want to spend hours there, I could survive if needed for quick jaunts around town. Cargo space with the third-row up is very small - to the point that we wondered if we'd even fit our stroller in. With the third-row down, cargo space is cavernous at nearly 47 cubic feet. Combined with a large opening and squared off rear hatch, you can carry a lot of stuff.

We did a 5 mile test drive loop over a mixture of roads and I feel like we got a pretty good sense for how it rides. It handles as big as it feels, for better or worse - there is no mistaking this for a lifted car-based platform. Visibility is outstanding. There is more than adequate pickup off the line and the CVT does a really nice job, shockingly, of keeping the engine in the meat of the engine's torque. There is plenty of getup and go and at highway speeds it is very smooth. That said, it is a very loud powertrain and you will not forget at any point that you are driving a 4 cylinder engine in a behemoth. Steering is effortless though with that comes sacrificing some feedback from the road. For the most part the interior is pretty quiet with the exception of the engine noise you hear in the cabin - there were no rattles, squeaks etc.

With a $46,5 list price, it certainly isn't cheap. I liked it more than wife only because I can see the value in having a vehicle where we won't have to worry about playing tetris with our things. Her feeling is that it is big and will take some getting used to driving and she questions whether we need the extra space. For me, the technology and overall comfort is far and above the competition, IMO, and for that I would deal with the loud engine. Cost is a consideration though - based on my back of the napkin math, it would run about $125-$150/month more than an Outback.

Outback review to come...

tjc78

I know Buick’s are taboo for younger people but you really should check out an Enclave. It is the biggest before you get into Tahoe/Expedition category.  The third row is useable and with it up we used to fit our mammoth double stroller in the rear.  

Ours is a bit light on the newest tech, but the 2018+ solved those issues.  It can hit low 50s fully loaded but ours was just under 50K with Nav, Bose and Pano roof.

Nice writeup on the Subaru, I would imagine that power train feels a bit taxed.

28firefighter

On to our test drive of a Subaru Outback 3.6 Touring.

The Outback is very much a lifted station wagon. That isn't a bad thing. You get the space, comfort, and handling of a wagon with a little bit of extra clearance over the road. The design is very much pushing the end of it's life now at almost 4 model years old and basically every other car you see on the road up here is an Outback. After having spent some time behind the wheel, I can see why.

Aesthetically, again, the Outback is nothing to write home about. It stands out about as much as green grass on a golf course. The Touring comes with slightly larger and specially styled alloy wheels that let you know you're driving a Touring. The only visual difference between the 2.5i and 3.6R is the badge on the back of the car - otherwise they're basically identical.

The Touring also comes nicely equipped with safety nannies, but what I would say is that all of them are of the previous generation whereas the Ascent and Forester have the newest interfaces, technology etc.

The interior is also a nice place to be. The center console is certainly showing it's age - quite a bit more hard and shiny plastic, fairly bumpy experience with the infotainment, etc. The Touring only comes in that same Java brown color interior and while the seats are very comfortable (leaps and bounds better than both the X1 and the Stelvio), it definitely doesn't have the same bolstering and overall comfort that the Ascent gave you. The backseat is downright cavernous for a station wagon - with the drivers seat all the way back, I had more than enough room to fit comfortably. I would say it was just as roomy as the Ascent in the second row, though of course the Ascent had more headroom for obvious reasons. The rear hatch is obviously the biggest difference. The Outback has nearly 36 cubic feet of cargo space with the second seat up, though the usable space isn't as much because of the rounded nature of the rear hatch meaning you're limited as to how high and far back you can stack items. We have the same challenge with the X1, though the X1 cargo space is much more limited in terms of width and length - the Outback is almost 10 cubic feet large in the rear.

The driving dynamics of the Outback 3.6 blow the Ascent out of the water. The 6 cylinder engine is very responsive, quiet, and incredibly smooth - it feels perfectly mated to that size of car. While it won't be mistaken for a sports car, it certainly can get out of it's way and then some. The CVT in this application is completely unobtrusive and I barely even noticed it while I was driving. We both also felt that the Outback itself was just much quieter inside than the Ascent was. My wife and I both loved the way the Outback drove.

The MSRP of the example we drove was $40,896 - the only way to drive it higher is with various accessories. The sales person right off the bat said that they were moving mountains right now to get rid of their 2019 Outback inventory, especially the 3.6s because people just don't want them up this way - they want the fuel economy of the 2.5i. I knew that as much but appreciated the confirmation nonetheless.

So on driving dynamics and budget, we'd pick the Outback any day of the week - especially because it is just easier to park and maneuver. But in terms of overall functionality, comfort, and technology, the Ascent takes the cake. Where that leaves us? Who knows. Ultimately it will be up to my wife because I don't want to hear either way "why did you force me to get X?"

28firefighter

tjc78 said:

I know Buick’s are taboo for younger people but you really should check out an Enclave. It is the biggest before you get into Tahoe/Expedition category.  The third row is useable and with it up we used to fit our mammoth double stroller in the rear.  

Ours is a bit light on the newest tech, but the 2018+ solved those issues.  It can hit low 50s fully loaded but ours was just under 50K with Nav, Bose and Pano roof.

Nice writeup on the Subaru, I would imagine that power train feels a bit taxed.

We did a walk-around of the Traverse which is largely the same. She said the Ascent was as big as she was willing to go. At 204.3", the Traverse/Enclave are WAY too big - she did not even want to sit inside.

stickguy

that sounds like my impressions after the test drive I did of the 3.6 OB. Probably should have shown the wife, as in retrospect, would have been a better move for us. Oh well. Maybe next time!

we sat in an Ascent at the car show, and she did think it was just too big for our needs. But very comfy interior.

breld

My advice, for whatever it's worth, is to go with the Ascent. Unless the improved driving dynamics of the Outback are that important to you, I think you'll appreciate getting the most updated Subaru systems, safety nannies and just general design in the Ascent.

Now if you want to wait a few months, getting the updated 2020 Outback may be a great option if you don't feel you need the 3rd row.

au1994

henryn said:

stickguy said:

I think Mazda has traditionally been a more "coastal" car, concentrated on the west and east coasts. Never much of a player in the heartland and down south.

Whereas Subaru is only a player in regions that exceed 4 feet of snowfall per annum?

With Subaru sales up double digits over the past few years, its safe to say they are doing a good job breaking out of their Rocky Mountain/Northeastern pidgeon hole.

They are quite numerous in my far N Atl suburb. Outbacks lead followe closely by the Forrester.

au1994

Excellent write ups @28firefighter. I think my opinions were very similar but I actually thought the Ascent handled quite well for what it is but yes, the Outback feels like a canyon carver in back to back drives. We drove the same Outback but a Limited Ascent. I do love that 3.6R. Too bad the new one won’t have it.

I’ll third or fourth the recommendation to go with the Ascent though. I think in the end you’ll be happier. I wanted blue for ours but would have been outvoted for black. Which looks good for exactly 38 minutes after you wash it and can pick up a scratch from a lacrosse stick from across the parking lot. Ask me how I know says the owner of a black X1

tjc78

28firefighter said:

I know Buick’s are taboo for younger people but you really should check out an Enclave. It is the biggest before you get into Tahoe/Expedition category.  The third row is useable and with it up we used to fit our mammoth double stroller in the rear.  

Ours is a bit light on the newest tech, but the 2018+ solved those issues.  It can hit low 50s fully loaded but ours was just under 50K with Nav, Bose and Pano roof.

Nice writeup on the Subaru, I would imagine that power train feels a bit taxed.

We did a walk-around of the Traverse which is largely the same. She said the Ascent was as big as she was willing to go. At 204.3", the Traverse/Enclave are WAY too big - she did not even want to sit inside.

Gotcha, it is big.  We don’t really even need as much room behind the third row as my kids are done with strollers.  

28firefighter

Thanks all! Wife called some friends and family who recently had second kids, including a couple who have the Outback. They all said to go with something with 3 rows because it comes in far more handy than they ever expected.

So with that, I think we're settled. If I can get the X1 transfer through credit approval (currently stalled because they requested a co-signor for the person who is in-process) before the end of the month, I'll try and snag a month end deal on the Ascent. And if I can't, then will wait until April and see what April brings us.

tjc78

Get the third row. We use it all the time.  

If anything one child can go in the third row leaving a middle seat open for an adult.  That is the configuration we usually have.  That also prevents the kids from fighting as they can’t reach each other.  

Even something as simple as running out to lunch with co-workers is simplified by having an open middle row seat.  Without the third row your back seat is useless with two car seats. 

stickguy

one of the best things about selling the Odyssey. No more being the designated driver when there were a few extra people, and I was the only one with a vehicle that could handle 6-7 adults.

roadburner

Michaell said:

@roadburner - the BMW booth featured an X2 M35i. But, holy mother of all that is holy, they must have had Stevie Wonder pick the colors of this example. The exterior was that greenish gold you've all likely seen pictures of, but the interior was somewhere between pumpkin and basketball orange. Garish, and not in a good way. 300 HP does make it interesting, and if you can choose a better color combo, it's likely a nice ride.

You have to get either that color(Magma Red) or Black in Dakota leather to get the really slick M Sport seats. I actually like Magma Red on an Alpine White or Mineral Gray car. Those seats are an absolute steal at only $500. In any event, I'd still have to spend a considerable amount of seat time in it to see how well the car masks its FWD roots.

Michaell

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

@roadburner - the BMW booth featured an X2 M35i. But, holy mother of all that is holy, they must have had Stevie Wonder pick the colors of this example. The exterior was that greenish gold you've all likely seen pictures of, but the interior was somewhere between pumpkin and basketball orange. Garish, and not in a good way. 300 HP does make it interesting, and if you can choose a better color combo, it's likely a nice ride.

You have to get either that color(Magma Red) or Black in Dakota leather to get the really slick M Sport seats. I actually like Magma Red on an Alpine White or Mineral Gray car. Those seats are an absolute steal at only $500. In any event, I'd still have to spend a considerable amount of seat time in it to see how well the car masks its FWD roots.

The BMW folks have been spending too much time in Colorado if they think that interior color is red.

As much as is like to avoid a black interior, if my choices were that or the color I saw last night, I'dhave to stick with black.

marcogallo1986

Nice rite. Up on the cars you did testdrive. Today 28 Firefighter 

marcogallo1986

Nice   Growled and Michael and the write up from the Denver auto show her your boat went to last night. Enjoyed reading it all. 

nyccarguy

Random thought - I saw a Black MDX A-Spec and thought it looked fantastic!

stickguy

I saw a red RDX A spec. Would make a nice match for my TLX! But I don't think the wife would do another bright red car. Something dark red (maroonish) would be OK though.

28firefighter

I love the MDX A-Spec and it wouldn’t be much more than he Ascent. Wife said no. 

sda

My SIL who just bought a new Acura RDX Advance is having multiple issues with the infotainment system. It keeps dropping XM or freezes up. She has been to the dealer several times with no improvement. She likes the RDX, but this has put a damper on her enthusiasm for it and has given her some buyers remorse.