There is another variable in all this with the Camaro. The leasing program is strong and the dealer is using it as an advantage to make money. They could sell it at $400 /month to a non-informed buyer and to many a $400 month lease on a near 40k car is a good deal.
In other words they are banking on being able to sell it for more money. They know the math works, they just aren’t willing to lower the sales price enough.
I often wonder about that.
When I leased the 2011 Z4 service loaner from a Maryland dealership, the payment ended up at $335/mo. for a car with a $55K MSRP (24/10)
If they had parked that out front with a "$399/mo, no money down!" sign, it would have been gone in a day, and they would have cleared another $2K on the deal.
Of course, until I ran the numbers, they likely didn't realize what they could do. But, you'd think after a couple of emails, they would have just told me "No thanks".
They may think qbrozen is a state agent or a reporter trying to catch them doing something fraudulent. That could explain why they want him to show up in person.
Years ago at a time share presentation they got the idea that my wife was a state investigator trying to shut them down. Their whole attitude changed.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
About the same price as a 2017-2018 M2. But no warranty or maintenance worries on a 2020 M240i w/3k miles.
Oh that does look nice. Why so cheap, is it missing some desirable options?
It's not terribly cheap. Others can chime in, but it seems to be a good $6-7k over auction or trade.
But in all my stalking of manual M2s and M240i's, that seems to be the norm. High markups and given the nationwide market these days, those examples seem to move quickly.
Meanwhile, the automatic (DCT) M2 that started my obsession in the first place months ago is still sitting on the dealer's lot.
since a couple of you are so greatly offended, I just sent my old man angry letter. lol.
Good afternoon, Mr X.
I am reaching out to you regarding the interaction I have been experiencing with your system and staff.
On Feb 9, I submitted paperwork via your website for Shop-Click-Drive for a 2021 Camaro LT1. I’m attaching a PDF of that submission for you. The system assigned me to Ms Y, and she emailed me first thing the morning of the 10th. I asked that she confirm my paperwork and let me know when we can finalize the deal. I did not hear back, so at 4 in the afternoon, I sent a follow-up email asking for an update. Again, no response. On the morning of the 11th, I received another automated email from Y's address. I responded that I should be removed from the list if nobody is going to follow-up on my original submission. She responded “the vehicle is available, when will you come in for a test drive.” I promptly informed her that we have exchanged information before and I submitted the paperwork through the website, and I attached a copy for her again. She replied apologizing and letting me know she assigned me to Mr Jerk.
A couple of hours later, I received a text with a cellphone shot of a monthly payment of $552/mo, exclusive of taxes, and the words “Waldorf Chevrolet Cadillac.” Nothing more. I’m attaching a screenshot of the conversation that followed. He never told me his name, so I can only assume it is from Mr Jerk. The phone number it came from is xxx-xxx-xxxx.
This is definitely the rudest interaction I have had via text with a salesperson. And since that exchange before 1pm yesterday, I have yet to hear back from anyone.
If nobody wants to follow through with the agreed price, someone just needs to let me know. But I thought maybe you’d want to be aware of what happens when someone submits via your website “yes, I’ll take it, here is all my information.” I’m not sure why that would be met with such carelessness and distaste.
Sincerely, Q
Very well composed but I’m sure management knows why you were treated like that and will treat you with similar rudeness.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I just plugged it into Carvana and was offered $32k. If it wasn't for the tax and titling costs, someone could make money on it. Someone with a dealer license could have flipped it quick, though.
Makes you wonder why it went so cheap. Does somebody know something about it’s history?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The Y I test drove had black wheels. I'm not normally a fan, but I think it works with the black trim.
I'm not a huge fan of black wheels, but it's not a deal breaker by any means. I tend to appreciate them on lighter colors, like that white Tesla.
For the Model Y, I'd actually like to stick with the standard 19" wheels for ride quality. Plenty of aftermarket suppliers that offer some handsome 19" wheel options if I want something a bit unique.
I just plugged it into Carvana and was offered $32k. If it wasn't for the tax and titling costs, someone could make money on it. Someone with a dealer license could have flipped it quick, though.
Makes you wonder why it went so cheap. Does somebody know something about it’s history?
Experian and Autocheck are both clean, 1 owner. I'm sure the current lien is a problem when trying to make a private sale.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It certainly sounds like the salesguy is either confused or trying to play games. I will go with confused, but the dealership is playing games at least with their calculator. I have seen the price difference a number of times, since there are different incentives for purchase and lease. So taking the sales price advertised, then applying the lease incentives, was too good to be true! I would not be surprised if after much more back and forth the lightbulb finally goes on and someone on that end finally notices (or admits) that the sales price listed is too low (or that the incentive listed is "informational only")
you do have more patience for this than I do.
this is actually an F&I guy. I'm going to have to go with the incentive thing. Although I sent him my numbers and he said nothing about it.
Didn't this all start from an ad that said the monthly was simply what you are looking for?
Not on that one, I don't think.
I was thinking of when @ab348 said: I would guess a lot of those vary from region to region, but I can't say for sure.
Apparently the LT1 has a killer lease deal going on now in the US, but it wasn't available up here last time I checked.
Must have been something different. You guys are looking and buying so fast it's hard to keep up.
These managers just never want to admit defeat. Yes, it must be my fault that you won't honor your advertised price.
Seriously, I keep telling these people, "hey, just admit it is a mistake." Nope, they absolutely refuse. Look, your fine print says not responsible for errors. So say it is an error. Stop trying to blame everything else. I mean, do you expect me to accept something like "well you have to add back in freight." No, I don't, because your site clearly states "$xxx dealer discount." It really could not be simpler. "Oh, that tax is wrong." Hey, no problem, the right tax is within a few bucks, so not a problem. "That already includes the rebate." Really? Here is a screenshot of your site that shows the rebate coming off after. What else ya got? "We just aren't going to agree on this." Yes, I can see that. Are you prepared to admit you are wrong now and have no other excuses? Look, other dealers are smart enough to list a sale price but not list an actual "dealer discount everyone qualifies for," so why aren't you? Crickets.
This is Waldorf Chevy, by the way. I guess my email to the GM was kicked down to an SM, who emailed me. His first email was explaining the national deal to me. Sigh.
I imagine I'm getting quite the name around Chevy dealers this week.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I imagine I'm getting quite the name around Chevy dealers this week.
Yeah, you're getting to be the Nicky Santoro of NJ Chevrolet dealers.
Though, none of us are playing the Sam Rothstein role saying, "Hey, you better slow down, this is what's gonna happen..."
LOL. coincidentally... I call my little one Nicky because he is nuts. "Come at him with your fists, he'll come back with a bat. Come at him with a bat, he'll come at you with a gun. Come at him with a gun, and you better kill him because he's just gonna keep comin." (doing that from memory, so, yes, you nitpickers, I'm sure something is wrong)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I imagine I'm getting quite the name around Chevy dealers this week.
Yeah, you're getting to be the Nicky Santoro of NJ Chevrolet dealers.
Though, none of us are playing the Sam Rothstein role saying, "Hey, you better slow down, this is what's gonna happen..."
LOL. coincidentally... I call my little one Nicky because he is nuts. "Come at him with your fists, he'll come back with a bat. Come at him with a bat, he'll come at you with a gun. Come at him with a gun, and you better kill him because he's just gonna keep comin." (doing that from memory, so, yes, you nitpickers, I'm sure something is wrong)
Close enough.
Glad you got the reference. Though I don't think dealers would black list customers. Would they?
OMG! I totally forgot one of the best excuses! "You need two separate cars with different VINs to qualify for both conquest rebates." hahahaha. No, it is based on zip, not number of cars. Try again.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Based on my experience, many of these "old-time" brands have "old-time" dealerships.
Not saying there aren't good ones out there, but my limited experience at Ford and Chevy are not the best.
Ironically my parents Ford dealer was less "old-time" 15 years ago then they are presently, even though most of their sales management are people in their late 20s and whom you would expect to embrace advances in technology that can be used to sell cars.
1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2022 Acura MDX Type S Advance - 2021 Honda Passport Sport - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
These managers just never want to admit defeat. Yes, it must be my fault that you won't honor your advertised price.
Seriously, I keep telling these people, "hey, just admit it is a mistake." Nope, they absolutely refuse. Look, your fine print says not responsible for errors. So say it is an error. Stop trying to blame everything else. I mean, do you expect me to accept something like "well you have to add back in freight." No, I don't, because your site clearly states "$xxx dealer discount." It really could not be simpler. "Oh, that tax is wrong." Hey, no problem, the right tax is within a few bucks, so not a problem. "That already includes the rebate." Really? Here is a screenshot of your site that shows the rebate coming off after. What else ya got? "We just aren't going to agree on this." Yes, I can see that. Are you prepared to admit you are wrong now and have no other excuses? Look, other dealers are smart enough to list a sale price but not list an actual "dealer discount everyone qualifies for," so why aren't you? Crickets.
This is Waldorf Chevy, by the way. I guess my email to the GM was kicked down to an SM, who emailed me. His first email was explaining the national deal to me. Sigh.
I imagine I'm getting quite the name around Chevy dealers this week.
Why not just send all your info to the state’s AG and see how fast the dealer changes his tune?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
These managers just never want to admit defeat. Yes, it must be my fault that you won't honor your advertised price.
Seriously, I keep telling these people, "hey, just admit it is a mistake." Nope, they absolutely refuse. Look, your fine print says not responsible for errors. So say it is an error. Stop trying to blame everything else. I mean, do you expect me to accept something like "well you have to add back in freight." No, I don't, because your site clearly states "$xxx dealer discount." It really could not be simpler. "Oh, that tax is wrong." Hey, no problem, the right tax is within a few bucks, so not a problem. "That already includes the rebate." Really? Here is a screenshot of your site that shows the rebate coming off after. What else ya got? "We just aren't going to agree on this." Yes, I can see that. Are you prepared to admit you are wrong now and have no other excuses? Look, other dealers are smart enough to list a sale price but not list an actual "dealer discount everyone qualifies for," so why aren't you? Crickets.
This is Waldorf Chevy, by the way. I guess my email to the GM was kicked down to an SM, who emailed me. His first email was explaining the national deal to me. Sigh.
I imagine I'm getting quite the name around Chevy dealers this week.
Sometimes it isn't about the brand as much as the corporate culture of the dealership, or even that of a certain group of employees - could be sales, parts, service, whatever. Or it could be just the subset of people that you're dealing with. I remember a couple of years ago when my ATS had the transmission shudder that initially led to a class action suit. GM finally came up with a fix, and issued a few service bulletins. At first the early bulletins said the dealer had to do a long and complicated road test using specialized equipment or GM wouldn't pay for the fix. Later they relented and said if the customer comes in with the complaint, just do the fix even if you can't replicate it and we'll pay for it.
I came in and got the response from the dealer that reflected the earlier bulletin. When I got back home I found something on a Cadillac forum reflecting the latest bulletin's advice. I got the link to the bulletin, read it, and printed it off. It was quite clear. Brought it back into the service department and showed it to them. The advisor I used said, oh, that's different from what we have. Her boss, however, insisited it was wrong even though it was right there in front of him. Nothing could change his mind. I made an appointment for the following week anyway and made sure my service writer had a copy of the bulletin. She knew to avoid him and it got done.
Based on my experience, many of these "old-time" brands have "old-time" dealerships.
Not saying there aren't good ones out there, but my limited experience at Ford and Chevy are not the best.
That’s been my experience with nearly every mass market dealership. Notable exceptions are Kings Ford and Kings Mazda in Cincinnati and Jeff Wyler Toyota(where I will buy a Supra if I ever decide on one). Neil Huffman Mazda isn’t bad either- especially their body shop.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I saw a local Mazda dealer is getting in a Blue over White leather Miata RF, so I clicked on the "GET E-PRICE" button - not that I expected to actually receive any sort of pricing information, but it was just an easy way to get my name with a salesperson as an interested party on that car.
I get a call within minutes so I tell them I'm interested in that particular vehicle and just to let me know when it was on the lot.
Today, I get a text from him letting me know they just got in a 2017 Miata RF Club. Okay, I check it out on their website and see that it's an automatic, so I kindly reply and say I'm not interested in an auto, and that I'd want a 2019 or newer model. He then said he'd keep an eye out for one and asked if there was any particular color combination I was interested in.
I just replied, very politely..."I thought we discussed that particular blue over white Grand Touring model that you have due in later this month?"
He doesn't give the location, but I'm guessing this is Jabara Airport in Wichita. I wonder what the monthly fees to the airport authority run, once you've built a hangar?
He doesn't give the location, but I'm guessing this is Jabara Airport in Wichita. I wonder what the monthly fees to the airport authority run, once you've built a hangar?
Hangar is said to be owned by someone (not Hoovie) who basically built a house inside it but isn't using it to store any planes... I did notice that he did not put any of the more decrepit members of his fleet in the hangar, and all those present appeared to be nicely detailed.
All this talk of Lease calculations has me thinking I could more easily recalculate the trajectories and speed of the 3 new Mars Rovers and satellites before figuring out the lease numbers.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
All this talk of Lease calculations has me thinking I could more easily recalculate the trajectories and speed of the 3 new Mars Rovers and satellites before figuring out the lease numbers.
If you can do 4th grade math, you can calculate a lease payment.
My latest tale of woe actually has a good outcome. Tried to open my garage door this morning, not only was it stuck (iced shut), but I couldn't tell whether the opener was in a stopped position or not, so I hit the button a couple more times, and, in something I can only describe as the reverse of "paintless dent repair," the opener pulled the top panel completely out of shape. I went inside to discover the track bowed downwards and the chain loose.
Since I'm in an orthopedic boot, I'm not attempting any DIY heroics, so I called the garage door repair company. They came out a few hours later, banged the top panel of the garage door back into shape, installed a reinforcement brace, and put the chain of the door opener back on its guide. They did not have the correct size brace, so didn't charge me for that. The total damage was only $122, and they will charge me an additional $24 next week for the part (no service call charge) when they come back with the correct brace.
just need the formula. Back when I was looking at my first one I cobbled together a spreadsheet. I think there were a couple of glitches with it since I never seemed to get the same payment as I got here, but I was close enough!
I saw a local Mazda dealer is getting in a Blue over White leather Miata RF, so I clicked on the "GET E-PRICE" button - not that I expected to actually receive any sort of pricing information, but it was just an easy way to get my name with a salesperson as an interested party on that car.
I get a call within minutes so I tell them I'm interested in that particular vehicle and just to let me know when it was on the lot.
Today, I get a text from him letting me know they just got in a 2017 Miata RF Club. Okay, I check it out on their website and see that it's an automatic, so I kindly reply and say I'm not interested in an auto, and that I'd want a 2019 or newer model. He then said he'd keep an eye out for one and asked if there was any particular color combination I was interested in.
I just replied, very politely..."I thought we discussed that particular blue over white Grand Touring model that you have due in later this month?"
That's funny.
When I was buying a Fusion a friend was the salesman. I asked him to give me their best price. He text me the number.
Just for giggles I clicked on their "E Price" button. A little while later I got an email with a price lower than my "friend" gave me.
My latest tale of woe actually has a good outcome. Tried to open my garage door this morning, not only was it stuck (iced shut), but I couldn't tell whether the opener was in a stopped position or not, so I hit the button a couple more times, and, in something I can only describe as the reverse of "paintless dent repair," the opener pulled the top panel completely out of shape. I went inside to discover the track bowed downwards and the chain loose.
Since I'm in an orthopedic boot, I'm not attempting any DIY heroics, so I called the garage door repair company. They came out a few hours later, banged the top panel of the garage door back into shape, installed a reinforcement brace, and put the chain of the door opener back on its guide. They did not have the correct size brace, so didn't charge me for that. The total damage was only $122, and they will charge me an additional $24 next week for the part (no service call charge) when they come back with the correct brace.
That stings. Late in his life my father was losing a step and called me one morning to tell me his garage door was broken. I cam over and hit the button and watched the door go up an inch or so and the top panel bowed in but wouldn’t move further.
Turned out he had locked it the night before and forgot. Got the key, unlocked it and it opened fine.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
My latest tale of woe actually has a good outcome. Tried to open my garage door this morning, not only was it stuck (iced shut), but I couldn't tell whether the opener was in a stopped position or not, so I hit the button a couple more times, and, in something I can only describe as the reverse of "paintless dent repair," the opener pulled the top panel completely out of shape. I went inside to discover the track bowed downwards and the chain loose.
Since I'm in an orthopedic boot, I'm not attempting any DIY heroics, so I called the garage door repair company. They came out a few hours later, banged the top panel of the garage door back into shape, installed a reinforcement brace, and put the chain of the door opener back on its guide. They did not have the correct size brace, so didn't charge me for that. The total damage was only $122, and they will charge me an additional $24 next week for the part (no service call charge) when they come back with the correct brace.
That stings. Late in his life my father was losing a step and called me one morning to tell me his garage door was broken. I cam over and hit the button and watched the door go up an inch or so and the top panel bowed in but wouldn’t move further.
Turned out he had locked it the night before and forgot. Got the key, unlocked it and it opened fine.
Good one. I can relate.
One time my Dad called and said he couldn't get his car started. After all the usual questions I drove to his place and started the car on the first turn of the key. It ended up that he wasn't putting his foot on the brake pedal when turning the key.
All this talk of Lease calculations has me thinking I could more easily recalculate the trajectories and speed of the 3 new Mars Rovers and satellites before figuring out the lease numbers.
If you can do 4th grade math, you can calculate a lease payment.
All you need is the proper formula. Math doesn't lie. It is a great tool to have when you are comparing different quotes from different dealers. You can clearly see if the dealer is marking up the money factor, applying incentives properly. You don't have to just take what their computer program says is the right answer.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
As has been said, the math on a lease is pretty straightforward. My schedule I prepared calculates it like a loan payment with the residual as a balloon payment at the end. But then I use the simpler formula as a double check - monthly depreciation plus the interest (cap cost plus residual times the money factor).
Problem is, I think leases provide a prime opportunity for dealerships to NOT be transparent about the deal.
I just plugged it into Carvana and was offered $32k. If it wasn't for the tax and titling costs, someone could make money on it. Someone with a dealer license could have flipped it quick, though.
Man...if I had seen that Challenger, I may have pulled the trigger on it at that price. Even with shipping, that’s a helluva car for ~$30K. Also, it’s practically new based on the mileage.
Q.....gotta give you credit, you’ve got some dogged determination on the Camaro. I’m not that patient. I just walk away if those dealers don’t want to be honest with me, or show me numbers, especially after I show mine and they can’t refute them.
He doesn't give the location, but I'm guessing this is Jabara Airport in Wichita. I wonder what the monthly fees to the airport authority run, once you've built a hangar?
He’s trying to outdo John Ross. I wonder which hooptie relieved itself on the garage floor?
Watched that last night. Pretty innovative look at how to use airline hangars. I would be tempted to live in one of those and charge a rental fee for anyone who’d want to store their vehicles there to pay for the whole thing.
I just plugged it into Carvana and was offered $32k. If it wasn't for the tax and titling costs, someone could make money on it. Someone with a dealer license could have flipped it quick, though.
Man...if I had seen that Challenger, I may have pulled the trigger on it at that price. Even with shipping, that’s a helluva car for ~$30K. Also, it’s practically new based on the mileage.
Q.....gotta give you credit, you’ve got some dogged determination on the Camaro. I’m not that patient. I just walk away if those dealers don’t want to be honest with me, or show me numbers, especially after I show mine and they can’t refute them.
I’m more like Q. I often find myself with a need to make sure the dealer knows that I know the numbers. And further, to make sure that they know, that I know that they know....
Seems these dealers are simply counting the manufacturer incentive as part of their discount and are either legitimately confused or intentionally obtuse.
When I was shopping for my wife’s MINI, we were at a one-price shop (@michaell was there and will remember). When I asked what their discount was on the hardtops, they said $1,250 (or whatever the number was), which happened to be the MINI cash incentive. When I asked if the cash incentive was on top of their discount, they acted confused and simply said that was the entire discount.
Not even trying to be overly snarky, I made the statement, “So you’re not providing any discount on the car.” That conversation went round and round for a bit.
The Spark text was the most surprising. I wanted to reply “are you looking for a customer or a bad review” but decided I didn’t want to jump to that YET.
The best response that would have thrown them off is "OK, I'll take the Spark."
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
My latest tale of woe actually has a good outcome. Tried to open my garage door this morning, not only was it stuck (iced shut), but I couldn't tell whether the opener was in a stopped position or not, so I hit the button a couple more times, and, in something I can only describe as the reverse of "paintless dent repair," the opener pulled the top panel completely out of shape. I went inside to discover the track bowed downwards and the chain loose.
Since I'm in an orthopedic boot, I'm not attempting any DIY heroics, so I called the garage door repair company. They came out a few hours later, banged the top panel of the garage door back into shape, installed a reinforcement brace, and put the chain of the door opener back on its guide. They did not have the correct size brace, so didn't charge me for that. The total damage was only $122, and they will charge me an additional $24 next week for the part (no service call charge) when they come back with the correct brace.
That stings. Late in his life my father was losing a step and called me one morning to tell me his garage door was broken. I cam over and hit the button and watched the door go up an inch or so and the top panel bowed in but wouldn’t move further.
Turned out he had locked it the night before and forgot. Got the key, unlocked it and it opened fine.
Good one. I can relate.
One time my Dad called and said he couldn't get his car started. After all the usual questions I drove to his place and started the car on the first turn of the key. It ended up that he wasn't putting his foot on the brake pedal when turning the key.
My son’s friend is storing his car at our house while he’s doing military service. We run it once a month to keep the battery charged. Starts fine.
He came home on leave and took the car to run local errands. A day later he calls my son and says the car won’t start. The implication as I saw it was that the friend was somehow holding my son responsible.
My son, who knows absolutely nothing about cars tells him to call AAA. He does this and calls back an hour later and tells us that he had forgotten to put the car in Park. :@
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
By the way, @qbrozen, that "Spark" comment would have driven me absolutely nuts. In fact, I kinda feel that way on your behalf.
I plan on attempting to send an email to the GM, if I can locate him/her's info, detailing my interaction with the dealership.
I am attempting something slightly different today. I tried a handful of new dealers and wrote, "This will be a 39/10 lease. I am aware of the MF, RV, and incentives, so all I would need to know is your best pre-incentive sale price and any dealer fees."
So far, LOTS of messages, and only a single one has come back with an answer. I think I sent it to 6-7. Most reply with questions leading to incentives and monthly. I respond with the same original message each time.
Dealerships have told me in the past the reason they don't like giving numbers out by email is they first want to be 100% certain you are a potential customer and not their competitor dealership group shopping their price so they can get beat by $100 on the online quotes.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
When I bought the 13 Accord in Sept 13, the dealer I bought from was upfront and gave me detailed numbers by email. The only missing link was what they would give for my trade in. No tricks played, decent trade in value for our 09 Civic EX with just under 60k and I was the owner of a new Accord EX. I have found that dealer not so willing to do the same today and is one reason I was not a repeat customer.
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
I just plugged it into Carvana and was offered $32k. If it wasn't for the tax and titling costs, someone could make money on it. Someone with a dealer license could have flipped it quick, though.
If you were a "used car dealer" WOULD YOU still have to pay taxes and titling costs?
Seems like a lot of money for a Dodge to me, but I suppose it is extremely low mileage.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
All this talk of Lease calculations has me thinking I could more easily recalculate the trajectories and speed of the 3 new Mars Rovers and satellites before figuring out the lease numbers.
If you can do 4th grade math, you can calculate a lease payment.
Does Edmunds have a "lease" calculator?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Comments
Years ago at a time share presentation they got the idea that my wife was a state investigator trying to shut them down. Their whole attitude changed.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
But in all my stalking of manual M2s and M240i's, that seems to be the norm. High markups and given the nationwide market these days, those examples seem to move quickly.
Meanwhile, the automatic (DCT) M2 that started my obsession in the first place months ago is still sitting on the dealer's lot.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
For the Model Y, I'd actually like to stick with the standard 19" wheels for ride quality. Plenty of aftermarket suppliers that offer some handsome 19" wheel options if I want something a bit unique.
I like these a lot:
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
I'm sure the current lien is a problem when trying to make a private sale.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Apparently the LT1 has a killer lease deal going on now in the US, but it wasn't available up here last time I checked.
Must have been something different. You guys are looking and buying so fast it's hard to keep up.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
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Seriously, I keep telling these people, "hey, just admit it is a mistake." Nope, they absolutely refuse. Look, your fine print says not responsible for errors. So say it is an error. Stop trying to blame everything else. I mean, do you expect me to accept something like "well you have to add back in freight." No, I don't, because your site clearly states "$xxx dealer discount." It really could not be simpler. "Oh, that tax is wrong." Hey, no problem, the right tax is within a few bucks, so not a problem. "That already includes the rebate." Really? Here is a screenshot of your site that shows the rebate coming off after. What else ya got? "We just aren't going to agree on this." Yes, I can see that. Are you prepared to admit you are wrong now and have no other excuses? Look, other dealers are smart enough to list a sale price but not list an actual "dealer discount everyone qualifies for," so why aren't you? Crickets.
This is Waldorf Chevy, by the way. I guess my email to the GM was kicked down to an SM, who emailed me. His first email was explaining the national deal to me. Sigh.
I imagine I'm getting quite the name around Chevy dealers this week.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Though, none of us are playing the Sam Rothstein role saying, "Hey, you better slow down, this is what's gonna happen..."
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Glad you got the reference. Though I don't think dealers would black list customers. Would they?
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Not saying there aren't good ones out there, but my limited experience at Ford and Chevy are not the best.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run"
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I came in and got the response from the dealer that reflected the earlier bulletin. When I got back home I found something on a Cadillac forum reflecting the latest bulletin's advice. I got the link to the bulletin, read it, and printed it off. It was quite clear. Brought it back into the service department and showed it to them. The advisor I used said, oh, that's different from what we have. Her boss, however, insisited it was wrong even though it was right there in front of him. Nothing could change his mind. I made an appointment for the following week anyway and made sure my service writer had a copy of the bulletin. She knew to avoid him and it got done.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I get a call within minutes so I tell them I'm interested in that particular vehicle and just to let me know when it was on the lot.
Today, I get a text from him letting me know they just got in a 2017 Miata RF Club. Okay, I check it out on their website and see that it's an automatic, so I kindly reply and say I'm not interested in an auto, and that I'd want a 2019 or newer model. He then said he'd keep an eye out for one and asked if there was any particular color combination I was interested in.
I just replied, very politely..."I thought we discussed that particular blue over white Grand Touring model that you have due in later this month?"
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Since I'm in an orthopedic boot, I'm not attempting any DIY heroics, so I called the garage door repair company. They came out a few hours later, banged the top panel of the garage door back into shape, installed a reinforcement brace, and put the chain of the door opener back on its guide. They did not have the correct size brace, so didn't charge me for that. The total damage was only $122, and they will charge me an additional $24 next week for the part (no service call charge) when they come back with the correct brace.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
When I was buying a Fusion a friend was the salesman. I asked him to give me their best price. He text me the number.
Just for giggles I clicked on their "E Price" button. A little while later I got an email with a price lower than my "friend" gave me.
I guess they just can't help it.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Turned out he had locked it the night before and forgot. Got the key, unlocked it and it opened fine.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
One time my Dad called and said he couldn't get his car started. After all the usual questions I drove to his place and started the car on the first turn of the key. It ended up that he wasn't putting his foot on the brake pedal when turning the key.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Problem is, I think leases provide a prime opportunity for dealerships to NOT be transparent about the deal.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Q.....gotta give you credit, you’ve got some dogged determination on the Camaro. I’m not that patient. I just walk away if those dealers don’t want to be honest with me, or show me numbers, especially after I show mine and they can’t refute them.
Watched that last night. Pretty innovative look at how to use airline hangars. I would be tempted to live in one of those and charge a rental fee for anyone who’d want to store their vehicles there to pay for the whole thing.
Seems these dealers are simply counting the manufacturer incentive as part of their discount and are either legitimately confused or intentionally obtuse.
When I was shopping for my wife’s MINI, we were at a one-price shop (@michaell was there and will remember). When I asked what their discount was on the hardtops, they said $1,250 (or whatever the number was), which happened to be the MINI cash incentive. When I asked if the cash incentive was on top of their discount, they acted confused and simply said that was the entire discount.
Not even trying to be overly snarky, I made the statement, “So you’re not providing any discount on the car.” That conversation went round and round for a bit.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
He came home on leave and took the car to run local errands. A day later he calls my son and says the car won’t start. The implication as I saw it was that the friend was somehow holding my son responsible.
My son, who knows absolutely nothing about cars tells him to call AAA. He does this and calls back an hour later and tells us that he had forgotten to put the car in Park. :@
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That’s worse than the back seat of my Mustang.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
Seems like a lot of money for a Dodge to me, but I suppose it is extremely low mileage.