Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

graphicguy

henryn said:

Story in the Houston Chronicle today, probably behind a paywall:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/Instead-of-buyers-auto-dealers-are-scouring-the-16926182.php

But higher prices have allowed car dealers to make more money as they sell fewer cars. Houston-based Group 1 Automotive reported earlier this month that it nearly doubled its annual profit to a record $552 million last year from $286 million, even as the volume of new car sales fell 3.5 percent. Revenues jumped 27 percent to $13.5 billion from $10.6 billion in 2020.

Saw another similar article in the Wall Street Journal a couple of weeks ago. I think it was behind a paywall, too.

In brief, they said the same thing. Car dealers are making more money selling fewer units because of the rise in per unit profit. Further, they said expenses for the stores used) have gone down because they aren’t doing as much reconditioning. Their conclusion? It’s not inflation related.

Another article, Shell profits in 2021 were up 56%. Conclusion? Not inflation related.

So, what is it? It’s price gouging.

tjc78

@qbrozen
Just play the long game on it and hope nothing too expensive goes on it. She will eventually want something easier to live with.

ab348

Sandman6472 said:

. Betting if they have the model, color and options I want, and if they take off their ridiculous ADM fee, if they match their inflated price by giving my trade the same inflated amount, it could be a wash and a deal might get done. Charge me $500 over your normal price but give me that same $500 over on my trade, and it's kind of like a wash. They move a unit and I get myself something new, seems like a plan to me.

I don't understand why you would think they would waive their ADM, be it $500 or $6800. They put those on the sticker prices for a reason - they think someone will pay it in a tight market.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

longest vehicle I ever had in the garage was actually the Odyssey (a couple inches longer than the Maverick). But that was on the right (the wife's side) and the door into the house is in front of that so nothing deep on the wall on that side. It fit with plenty of room to get around the front (the RDX has tons of extra space).

the Maverick lives on "my" side (left). there are a couple of deeper (20") shelves in front of it, and in the center is the spare fridge. Also have my rolling wash bucket cart in front of the shelves and my power washer. But, still enough space to clear the garage door by a few inches, an easily walk in front of truck. I just have to stop exactly on my mark on the side wall! Biggest hassle is actually the fridge door. That swings open from the left (handle left, hinge right as you look at it) so barely clears my bumper. You have to work the logistics right to be able to open the door, and get at the fridge. Really should just reverse it, but that sounds like a lot of work!

So you can get a beer from the fridge without getting out of the car? Nice arrangement.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

Not sure if I shared this, but, this past weekend, I finally popped the hood of the Benz to take a poke around. Spraying some carb cleaner around to see if I could find any leaks. Touching things with a concerned look on my face. That sort of car-guy stuff, ya know? Anyway, as I'm checking all the hoses I can find, I come upon one that isn't attached to anything. Huh. Poke around some more trying to find its home and I come upon another one not attached to anything. Double huh. I take some video, put the engine cover back on, and pop back in the house to my trusty computer. Start perusing photos online of the engine bay and find a pic that would indicate those 2 loose hoses actually connect to each other. So I send the video to the mechanic and say "hey, do you know what these are and can they cause the CEL I'm getting?" A little while later he says, "ahhhh yeah. That might be it. That's the intake changeover valve." Gee, ya think that might be a problem? lol. Oh, and I also saw the dipstick had popped out yet again, which has been a common occurrence since day 1 and, apparently, that stupid thing can also cause a CEL.

While I was at it, I asked if he had gotten the TPMS receiver module we had discussed a month or more ago. Nope. Ok, so I hit ebay and pretty quickly find one for under $30. That arrived yesterday, and today was pretty nice out, so I go out and get to work. Turns out the hoses actually fit together without me needing to add anything. Nice. And the module was 2 clips and one wire harness. Nice again. Literally spent 10 mins with the car. I went to start her up and, magically, without the use of any special computers or wires, all warning lights are gone! I would have bet anything I would have had to take it to get all this garbage programmed. Nope. Nothing. TPMS said it was active and the CEL was just gone. Wow. Took it for a test drive and the dipstick held in place, so even better, although I did order an "upgraded" stick that holds better.

I come back in and the wife says "I don't want to sell it NOW." I asked why she thought I was selling it now, and she said I was obviously obsessed with making it work so I could sell it. haha. No, that really wasn't my intention. But I do want to sell it when the Jeep arrives. She says no, she doesn't like the Jeep and wants to keep the benz. SIGH. But, hun, you hate when cars break and the benz WILL break. A LOT. You liked the Jeep enough to steal it from me every darned day. She won't cop to that. Sigh, again.

So, I'm thinking maybe, just maybe, I can find her a suitable Volvo for the same or less than the value of the Benz. I mean, for the same age and mileage, we're talking half the value. Or spend the full value and get something much younger. Spent some time perusing and not really finding much that floats my boat. Best deal is a V60 ... in Hawaii. Dangit! I did come upon a rather nice '06 V70 2.5T with 52k miles for $9k. Her response is "those seats look terrible for those miles." I'm not going to argue because I know, even if I win, I lose.
https://www.burnsautomart.com/vdp/18284276/Used-2006-Volvo-V70-25L-Turbo-Auto-for-sale-in-Louisville-KY-40219

I'll keep looking. Doubtful I'd find anything in this market that will make her happy. Yes, I should just keep the Benz. But, goddam, that thing will bite us in the end, especially if she is driving it.

What’s the value of a happy wife?

qbrozen

She took it this morn to drop my son at school. Came back and informed me the TPMS is erroring again and the coolant light came on.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

She took it this morn to drop my son at school. Came back and informed me the TPMS is erroring again and the coolant light came on.

I think she broke it.

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

qbrozen said:

She took it this morn to drop my son at school. Came back and informed me the TPMS is erroring again and the coolant light came on.

I think she broke it.

told ya she would. lol.

stickguy

Didn’t take long.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

She took it this morn to drop my son at school. Came back and informed me the TPMS is erroring again and the coolant light came on.

Man - you called that.

ab348

I don't often laugh out loud at posts here, but this sequence did just that.

qbrozen

Wonder if I could talk her into boring but reliable

Or maybe a good ole straight 6

Probably too old, but looks clean

Or maybe she wants to stay in the same family

stickguy

Lexus looks like a reasonable deal. I liked the GLK too. Miles are good on that.

jmonroe1

@qbrozen said:

@xwesx said:
You had me laughing out loud.

That popping dipstick sounds like excess crankcase pressure. It might just be a clogged vacuum line or sticking PCV valve. Granted, that's for when it pops again or you get another light, but just throwing them out there.

Yup. But PCV was replaced. I’ve read of others fixing the issue by replacing with this upgraded dipstick. And since it didn’t pop out during my test drive, I’m thinking it is not serious. It does fit very loosely.

Do you know how to weld or braze?

jmonroe

corvette

That RX looks like something I’d be interested in picking up if my Maverick doesn’t get built on time.

28firefighter

yeah that looks very reasonable for the Lexus.

sda

qbrozen said:

She took it this morn to drop my son at school. Came back and informed me the TPMS is erroring again and the coolant light came on.

Sell, Sell, Sell!

ab348

The solution to a persnickety 10-15 y-o German vehicle is seldom another 10-15 y-o German vehicle.

qbrozen

jmonroe1 said:

Do you know how to weld or braze?

jmonroe

Braze, yes.
Weld, yes, but with the caveat that knowing how and doing it well are VERY different things!

jmonroe1

@qbrozen said:
Wonder if I could talk her into boring but reliable

Or maybe a good ole straight 6

Probably too old, but looks clean

Or maybe she wants to stay in the same family

You’re really pushing the envelope. But hey, it’s you money.

jmonroe

Michaell

Member needs help picking a used car .... I think

henryn

ab348 said:

Sandman6472 said:

. Betting if they have the model, color and options I want, and if they take off their ridiculous ADM fee, if they match their inflated price by giving my trade the same inflated amount, it could be a wash and a deal might get done. Charge me $500 over your normal price but give me that same $500 over on my trade, and it's kind of like a wash. They move a unit and I get myself something new, seems like a plan to me.

I don't understand why you would think they would waive their ADM, be it $500 or $6800. They put those on the sticker prices for a reason - they think someone will pay it in a tight market.

It's called "wishful thinking". I think we've all been guilty of that, at one time or another.

Just keep in mind that "wishful thinking" usually has no connection with reality.

henryn

graphicguy said:

henryn said:

Story in the Houston Chronicle today, probably behind a paywall:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/Instead-of-buyers-auto-dealers-are-scouring-the-16926182.php

But higher prices have allowed car dealers to make more money as they sell fewer cars. Houston-based Group 1 Automotive reported earlier this month that it nearly doubled its annual profit to a record $552 million last year from $286 million, even as the volume of new car sales fell 3.5 percent. Revenues jumped 27 percent to $13.5 billion from $10.6 billion in 2020.

Saw another similar article in the Wall Street Journal a couple of weeks ago. I think it was behind a paywall, too.

In brief, they said the same thing. Car dealers are making more money selling fewer units because of the rise in per unit profit. Further, they said expenses for the stores used) have gone down because they aren’t doing as much reconditioning. Their conclusion? It’s not inflation related.

Another article, Shell profits in 2021 were up 56%. Conclusion? Not inflation related.

So, what is it? It’s price gouging.

----------------------end quoted material------------------

Be serious here, man. We're talking about car dealers, car salesmen. Of course it's price gouging! Any chance they get, every chance they get. The difference is right now they have more opportunity.

28firefighter

Perhaps a mistake, but looking at the weather I fully drive-winterized the ZHP. Fresh fuel, gave it a once over top to bottom, tires adjusted, etc.

I’m sure we’ll get a foot of snow now.

jmonroe1

@henryn said:
----------------------end quoted material------------------

Be serious here, man. We're talking about car dealers, car salesmen. Of course it's price gouging! Any chance they get, every chance they get. The difference is right now they have more opportunity.

So true but when the pendulum swings the other way they call us grinders. I can live with that. I’ve been called worse by better.

Sometimes you’re the bat and sometimes you’re the ball.

jmonroe

qbrozen

@jmonroe1 said:

@qbrozen said:
Wonder if I could talk her into boring but reliable

Or maybe a good ole straight 6

Probably too old, but looks clean

Or maybe she wants to stay in the same family

You’re really pushing the envelope. But hey, it’s you money.

jmonroe

Which envelope? Any of those has to be more reliable than a 15-yr-old AMG. I had bought that SUV for my use. Then the jeep thing happened so figured I’d sell benz and pay for jeep lease. Now she wants something else. Sigh. I’ll wait till a Jeep is here and see what happens. My guess is she’ll drive that and I’ll get to sell benz and be done.

tifighter

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Or maybe she wants to stay in the same family

Hard to believe that's a ten-year-old car now. Time.

xwesx

jmonroe1 said:

Sometimes you’re the bat and sometimes you’re the ball.

jmonroe

Still waiting my turn at bat........

ab348

Update on the burning car carrier Felicity Ace. According to the report below it is indeed the lithium-ion EV batteries that are on fire and they cannot attack that while it is at sea. Story states that the fire begins about 15 feet above the waterline and extends to cargo decks above. Not a good scene.

https://www.autonews.com/retail/towing-boats-head-toward-burning-cargo-ship-carrying-4000-vws-porsches-bentleys-audis-lambos

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Update on the burning car carrier Felicity Ace. According to the report below it is indeed the lithium-ion EV batteries that are on fire and they cannot attack that while it is at sea. Story states that the fire begins about 15 feet above the waterline and extends to cargo decks above. Not a good scene.

https://www.autonews.com/retail/towing-boats-head-toward-burning-cargo-ship-carrying-4000-vws-porsches-bentleys-audis-lambos

Better to be burning in the middle of the ocean than in your garage. Any idea on what brand started the fire?

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
Those are all VW brands on the ship.

corvette

I was halfway tempted to email the Car Wizard to call dibs on the MDX he recently bought (as it would be a decent temporary daily driver in the event my Maverick isn't delivered by August), but I talked myself out of it because:
- it's a 2003, which is older than I would prefer,
- the Honda five speed autos of that era have a bad reputation,
- August is a decent ways away, and
- he mentioned repeatedly that it looked like it had previous paint work... When I tried to look up the specs of that vehicle online, I'm not even sure that charcoal grey was a factory color that year, so the entire thing could have been repainted at some point during its life.

BTW, the people on the Maverick boards talking about dealer allocations and the ability to fill accepted orders have gotten me thoroughly paranoid.

stickguy

don't get too worked up. Yes the allocation system is wonky but since they cut the order bank off a while ago, it almost doesn't matter where it was ordered from. They should all get delivered (assuming Ford did not overestimate the total they can do).

They won't be building any stock orders until all the customer ordered builds are done. so it may come toward the end of the model year, but even if it is with a dealer short of allocations, eventually the ones with the allocations will have all their orders filled so they will move on to the other ones.

28firefighter

I love these but come on.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/d/bellevue-2003-acura-tl-4d-miles/7447830372.html

corvette

@28firefighter - I could almost see that price being reasonable if it were a Type S with such low miles. The base model is a decent enough car, but doesn't have the cred with enthusiasts to make it potentially worth that much. BTW, I looked at those in 2008 when my Audi A4 lease was ending. Decent examples with 100,000 miles or less were selling in the $7,500 to $10,000 range on eBay, if memory serves, probably because of the transmission issues which were making the news at the time.

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

Update on the burning car carrier Felicity Ace. According to the report below it is indeed the lithium-ion EV batteries that are on fire and they cannot attack that while it is at sea. Story states that the fire begins about 15 feet above the waterline and extends to cargo decks above. Not a good scene.

https://www.autonews.com/retail/towing-boats-head-toward-burning-cargo-ship-carrying-4000-vws-porsches-bentleys-audis-lambos

Better to be burning in the middle of the ocean than in your garage. Any idea on what brand started the fire?

It’s a good thing that none of the cars are GM. We’d never hear the end of that piling on fiasco.

jmonroe

cdnpinhead

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Those are all VW brands on the ship.

Let's see, who can spell unintended consequences? The electric revolution is just beginning. I won't be around to see the end, but the beginning is certainly interesting.

stickguy

that TL is a little bit cleaner than the 175k 2000 MY I had, and sold for $2,700 in maybe 2014?

28firefighter

@corvette said:
@28firefighter - I could almost see that price being reasonable if it were a Type S with such low miles. The base model is a decent enough car, but doesn't have the cred with enthusiasts to make it potentially worth that much. BTW, I looked at those in 2008 when my Audi A4 lease was ending. Decent examples with 100,000 miles or less were selling in the $7,500 to $10,000 range on eBay, if memory serves, probably because of the transmission issues which were making the news at the time.

Even then, wasn’t the type S more prone to transmission failures?

I get the low miles and condition. But it isn’t a collector car.

sda

I had a 2003 TL bought used in 06 with 17k, silver with black interior. A nice, boring car. Quick, quiet, somewhat stiff ride, meh handling. I traded it in less than a year for a 2006 VW Passat Luxury 2.0t w/12k in 07. The VW was a delight in comparison.

Sandman6472

When talking with the sales guy abut the ADM fee, he said to me, "we're not married to it", which I took as they have room to play with their ADM fee. Maybe I misunderstood something but that's his exact words. We'll just have to wait & see. I bought my '88 Corolla FX from that Delray Beach dealer even though it's a good half hour from the house but since there are multiple Toyota stores here in South Florida, have many to shop at for the price I want to pay. And if I have to wait till sometime in 2023, so be it...ain't in any hurry here. Golf is already at 69,900 as of the drive home tonight and since I'm driving maybe 3K/year now, I can wait a bit longer.
But I truly believe that once the chip shortage is truly over, auto prices will go down again. And once the pent up demand is satisfied, prices could even be better. I've got time on my side since I don't need anything right now. It's purely a want right now & I can wait. Not rushing into anything as I usually take my time on most things. Think age & getting that Tucson back in the end of 2013 that I turned over about 375 days later has me taking my time on big ticket expenditures. Tend to live below our means, always have, so feels strange to be throwing lots of money around on things I want...I just don't.
On a side note, sat in a new base model Audi A3 at PBI and liked it...a lot! They fixed the dash and incorporated the audio system, a much cleaner design. The alloys are nicer to, sill looks like an A3 but one can see it's been tweaked a bit. Doubt the wife will look at any other German vehicle going forward though, doubt I will either.

stickguy

Sandy, it is a weird market now, but it is still car sales. Deals are whatever you can work out at the time. If nothing is selling at that crazy ADM, you make an offer and see what happens. They still don't make money until it sells.

and at some point if new stock catches up and prices drop, used prices are going to fall hard. Might not be a total wash in your case, but for a lot of people, they will probably be in the same net difference situation.

so, might as well get and drive what you want! I am inherently "frugal" but do believe in being nice to yourself. If you have plenty of money, no reason to skimp. Otherwise, what is the point of working and saving (and living below your means) all your life if you aren't going to ever enjoy some of it?

Just my opinion of course, and YMMV!

stickguy

so, anybody tired of waiting for their order, and want to jump the line? I am afraid to ask what the MSRP on this one was.

I do love the colors. Lots of red but it works here.

https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2022-chevrolet-corvette-2dr_stingray_coupe_w_2lt-used-1g1yb2d4xn5101295.html

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

I was halfway tempted to email the Car Wizard to call dibs on the MDX he recently bought (as it would be a decent temporary daily driver in the event my Maverick isn't delivered by August), but I talked myself out of it because:
- it's a 2003, which is older than I would prefer,
- the Honda five speed autos of that era have a bad reputation,
- August is a decent ways away, and
- he mentioned repeatedly that it looked like it had previous paint work... When I tried to look up the specs of that vehicle online, I'm not even sure that charcoal grey was a factory color that year, so the entire thing could have been repainted at some point during its life.

BTW, the people on the Maverick boards talking about dealer allocations and the ability to fill accepted orders have gotten me thoroughly paranoid.

Do you know what Ford factories were forced to close because of the bridge blockage in Detroit? If it was the Maverick plant you could see further delays.

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

I love these but come on.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/d/bellevue-2003-acura-tl-4d-miles/7447830372.html

That’s double the price of what I saw a few years ago.

qbrozen

This is quite the impressive carfax. Watch out for that driver if you find yourself in Alabama!
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/0cb926e4-ea40-4fb7-8146-70da803e22c5?aff=share_other

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

This is quite the impressive carfax. Watch out for that driver if you find yourself in Alabama!
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/0cb926e4-ea40-4fb7-8146-70da803e22c5?aff=share_other

Yikes! That’s a sign of the times, in the past no dealer would be caught with a car like that on his lot. I guess that’s all they have available at the auction these days. I wonder what senile grandma did all that sideswiping?

Even the rental history is suspect as most rental companies sell their good cars on their own sites. They send the damaged clunkers to auction.

stickguy

I like that style Volvo. and the 2 tone seats.

that one had a hard life. Though the description of the fatal accident (3rd of 3) did not sound like something that would lead to a total (who totals their car backing into a parked car?) with only moderate damage reported. Wonder if it being in the middle of Covid times (parts, etc.) had anything to do with it? But at this point probably the only original paint is on the roof!

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

so, anybody tired of waiting for their order, and want to jump the line? I am afraid to ask what the MSRP on this one was.

I do love the colors. Lots of red but it works here.

https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2022-chevrolet-corvette-2dr_stingray_coupe_w_2lt-used-1g1yb2d4xn5101295.html

Our poster buddy @graphicguy is probably drooling on his keyboard right now.

jmonroe