Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

nyccarguy

@henryn‌

The new 2015s have gone up even more. Both my best friend and my Dad have 2011 LTZ Tahoes. Their cars stickered for about $60K. A new body style 2015 LTZ pushes the $70K mark which is too rich for both their blood.

stevedebi

nyccarguy said:

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:

@Michaell‌

Thanks again for your help!

Did they pull the trigger?

He pulled the trigger. So the original "deal" was $1000 Down and $759 per month (39 months/20K per year). This is for a very lightly equipped LT Tahoe (Black). He walked away from that deal and told the dealership's GM (who is the owner's son that my best friend has personally bought 2 Tahoes from and referred close to 20 - 25 sales). The GM says to him: "If $759 is too much, then tell me where you want to be."

So my best friend does the logical thing and pulls a number completely out of his rear end and sticks to it. $699 gets me to sign.

Today the GM calls him back and says he can do $719 per month and not a penny less. GM also says "or if you can come up with another $1000 down, I can get you into a Tahoe LT (Silver) with all the equipment you want for $739 (which equates to $764). So he's taking the Silver Tahoe.

Part of the problem was the high miles, 20K a year.

Michaell

stevedebi said:

nyccarguy said:

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:

@Michaell‌

Thanks again for your help!

Did they pull the trigger?

He pulled the trigger. So the original "deal" was $1000 Down and $759 per month (39 months/20K per year). This is for a very lightly equipped LT Tahoe (Black). He walked away from that deal and told the dealership's GM (who is the owner's son that my best friend has personally bought 2 Tahoes from and referred close to 20 - 25 sales). The GM says to him: "If $759 is too much, then tell me where you want to be."

So my best friend does the logical thing and pulls a number completely out of his rear end and sticks to it. $699 gets me to sign.

Today the GM calls him back and says he can do $719 per month and not a penny less. GM also says "or if you can come up with another $1000 down, I can get you into a Tahoe LT (Silver) with all the equipment you want for $739 (which equates to $764). So he's taking the Silver Tahoe.

Part of the problem was the high miles, 20K a year.

Oh yes .. that's several thousand dollars subtracted from the calculated residual.

nyccarguy

It is more expensive to lease when you do 20K miles per year. I know. People would act shocked when they asked what my BMW payment was and I told them $572. "For a 328xi?" I'd always tell them, "yes for a 328xi. I also didn't put a penny down and took out a 20K per year lease for 30 months. Including tax." Then I'd always get the same reply: "oh."

roadburner

I also posted this in the "Buying and Selling" topic, but this is probably where the actual wealth of knowledge resides...

Fellow CCBA members, how does this sound?

The CPO Challenger has been on the dealer's lot since July 24th. Since that time the price has dropped from $34,440 to $28,500. I'm thinking there is probably little if any profit left in the sled(based on auction sales and asking prices for similar cars). My Mazda has 147,000 miles on it, and I'm pretty sure that @$5,000 is all the money. So, I'm going to shake the tree and see if anything falls out: $27,000-$5,000= $22,000. With 6% sales tax I'm at $23,320- make it $28,500 OTD.

I might go up a little, but not much; they need to move that car, but I don't have to bu the SRT. With winter well and truly here -not to mention the holidays- I don't see a big V8 musclecar with three pedals and summer max performance tires becoming any easier to move.

Thoughts?

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

It is more expensive to lease when you do 20K miles per year. I know. People would act shocked when they asked what my BMW payment was and I told them $572. "For a 328xi?" I'd always tell them, "yes for a 328xi. I also didn't put a penny down and took out a 20K per year lease for 30 months. Including tax." Then I'd always get the same reply: "oh."

That was a great deal- but you already knew that...

rayainsw

'Thoughts? '
buy
buy
buy

stever

The "book" spread on the Mazdaspeed is $4,000 trade to $6,000 retail. Didn't eyeball the Dodge but my guess is that the dealer will try to lowball you on the trade. Maybe you should sell it privately?

Or what the hey, just keep it.

stickguy

I agree with Steve. I figured that the Challenger was going to be an addition, not a replacement. Keep it for the nice weather, and the mazda for the bad weather.

nyccarguy

@roadburner‌

If you don really need the trade money, then buy the Dodge & try and sell the Mazda privately. I'm sure your Mazda with 147K is in better condition than most cars with 47K miles. Plus your car is "adult" driven, mechanically flawless, & I know you have a stack and a half of receipts to back it up.

steine13

nyccarguy said:

@roadburner‌

If you don really need the trade money, then buy the Dodge & try and sell the Mazda privately.

Ja. And don't sell the Mazda now, sell it during tax season, say in March. That lets you use it in the winter for free, too.

graphicguy

rayainsw said:

'Thoughts? '
buy
buy
buy

RB...aside from what Ray said....

buy
buy
buy

graphicguy

henryn said:

D__n, Tahoes are expensive. I just recently bought a used one (2005, with 111k), and definitely like it. The only reason I bought it was because it was several thousand dollars cheaper than a pickup (similar year, similar equipment, similar miles). I never even looked at what new ones are going for, that is insane!

Yeah....I think GM has really taken over the full size SUV market. You certainly don't see many Navigators or Expeditions on the roads these days. I'm not sure Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep even offer a full sized SUV any more, do they?

Toyota and Nissan lost the American SUV/Truck battles a while ago.

My Caddy dealer has $85K Escalades, and can't keep them on his lot. Go figure!

breld

I could use a little advice as I help my mother-in-law with a car predicament.

She has a 2005 Jaguar X-Type - bright red with about 75k miles. She calls me today saying the dealership checked the car out in response to a check engine light, and came up with a list of repairs to the tune of $3k. Apparently, she dropped $6k on it this past April .

I think it's likely that an independent mechanic could check it out and the bill would be much less - but even if it's $1-2k, I think she should just let the thing go (and she agrees).

It's an "extra" car and there's certainly nothing owed on it. In good shape, I would think it may be a $4-5k car. So I'm thinking we can throw it on craigslist as a "mechanic's special" and hope to get $2-3k for it?

Thoughts?

jayrider

If she made it to 75k miles and only had 9k in repairs you would call that car a Cream Puff in Jaguareese. Do the minimum to get the engine light off and sell it next Spring --- auction it on Ebay.

stever

Yeah, at least get the second opinion.

What else is in her stable? Maybe trade-in the Jag for a 2015 and sell something else instead?

nyccarguy

This week's CCBA "cheapo screamer lease special" from the paper:

Nothing anywhere near as "exciting" as last week's loaded V6 Camry, but none the less I feel obligated to report:

2015 Corolla L - $99/month plus tax. $749 Due at signing. 24 months/12K per year

2015 Prius TWO - $179/month plus tax. $829 Due at signing. 24 months/12K per year.

2015 RAV4 LE AWD - $149/month plus tax. $799 Due at signing. 24 months/12K per year.

2014 Sienna SE FWD ($36,585 MSRP) - $229/month plus tax. $879 Due At signing. 24 months/12K per year.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

This week's CCBA "cheapo screamer lease special" from the paper:

Nothing anywhere near as "exciting" as last week's loaded V6 Camry, but none the less I feel obligated to report:

2015 Corolla L - $99/month plus tax. $749 Due at signing. 24 months/12K per year

2015 Prius TWO - $179/month plus tax. $829 Due at signing. 24 months/12K per year.

2015 RAV4 LE AWD - $149/month plus tax. $799 Due at signing. 24 months/12K per year.

2014 Sienna SE FWD ($36,585 MSRP) - $229/month plus tax. $879 Due At signing. 24 months/12K per year.

I might have been tempted by the Prius offer last year when I was looking. Everything was closer to $300/mo at the time.

breld

stever said:

Yeah, at least get the second opinion.

What else is in her stable? Maybe trade-in the Jag for a 2015 and sell something else instead?

She has a Mitsubishi Endeavor (2009 or 2010) for her main car. She was excited at the time to get into an SUV with so many features, and at such a discount! She's not that fond of it anymore, as it guzzles gas and doesn't exactly have a nice ride. I tease her once in awhile that she didn't check in with me before she bought the Mitsubishi.

She says she would like to get out of this Jaguar and perhaps lease a nice economical car. All those listed above by nyccarguy would be great!

fintail

Funny, my friend with the Prius C pays something over $300/mo after tax - I think it's a "level 3" or whatever the more loaded one is, but still. And that was with $4K up front! I don't think he's a good negotiator.

Locally I've seen Versa note in the screamer ads for $69/month, Altima for something like $109, 24/12, but I think they want about $2500 up front for either. Like the cars you listed, these will be fleet spec, but still - for a commuter box, it's a deal. Just like in areas experiencing housing bubbles where it is much cheaper to rent than buy, sometimes leasing a car can work out, too.

nyccarguy said:

This week's CCBA "cheapo screamer lease special" from the paper:

Nothing anywhere near as "exciting" as last week's loaded V6 Camry, but none the less I feel obligated to report:

2015 Corolla L - $99/month plus tax. $749 Due at signing. 24 months/12K per year

2015 Prius TWO - $179/month plus tax. $829 Due at signing. 24 months/12K per year.

2015 RAV4 LE AWD - $149/month plus tax. $799 Due at signing. 24 months/12K per year.

2014 Sienna SE FWD ($36,585 MSRP) - $229/month plus tax. $879 Due At signing. 24 months/12K per year.

nyccarguy

I'd probably head that way too if I needed a cheap runabout for the wife if our Pilot was paid off. The only thing about a "cheap" 2 year lease is that if you add in the $829 due at signing plus $350 for new plates it comes out to an extra $49.13 per month. With tax, the total cost of the lease is $239.50.

I have to tell you, the $229 per month lease on a very nicely equipped Sienna SE looks nice (especially if you compare it to my $678.66 Pilot payment), but its not AWD.

qbrozen

breld, did you get the list from the dealer yet? I'm sure its not $3k just to get the CEL off. They probably have ridiculous things on there like "flush headlight fluid - $199"

Its not REALLY a jaguar, so it shouldn't be all that fussy. But I'm not that learned on them. Is it the 2.5 or 3.0?

breld

I have to double check, but I believe it's the 3.0. She has the list from the dealer, so I'm gonna look at that, and maybe get the opinion from our mechanic. Like you said, it's more Ford than Jaguar, right?

stickguy

Breld, yeah the mechanical bits are basically Ford. With just enough Jag tweaking to tank them!

I would just tell your sister to have a fire sale. Get rid of both of them, and replace them with 1 CUV. Something like a mazda CX5, or a CRV.

stever

Sounds like she needs to do a two-fer and somehow get rid of both the Endeavor and the Jag.

stickguy

stever said:

Sounds like she needs to do a two-fer and somehow get rid of both the Endeavor and the Jag.

Dang, Why didn't I think of that?

Mr_Shiftright

If you could extract some trouble codes from the car we could give you more advice on how to handle the repairs. I'm sure the dealer is stacking it up on her. This is the type of car you want to bail out on under 100K miles anyway, so I wouldn't put too much into it. I think the car is a money pit. And yes, get a second opinion. You don't have to go to a fancy-pants Jaguar shop to have this car worked on -- but of course you need something better than a chain store. It's certainly worth putting up to $1K in it to sell it, if the body and interior are really nice. If it's a rat, then yeah, let it go.

breld said:

I have to double check, but I believe it's the 3.0. She has the list from the dealer, so I'm gonna look at that, and maybe get the opinion from our mechanic. Like you said, it's more Ford than Jaguar, right?

jpp75

@stickguy‌

I had a brand new Sonata for a rental in Miami yesterday. 5 miles on it when I got in, even though this was the base rental spec I really liked the car. You made a great choice.

stickguy

glad you liked it. That is a nice thing about the Sonata (and the Legacy). even the base car is very well equipped, and you don't feel like you are driving a poor man's special stippo!

Mr_Shiftright

I think Forbes just rated it the best midsize family sedan. (The Sonata I mean).

breld

Thanks for the advice fellas. I'll see if our mechanic (BMW primarily) has some input on it. Seems like if we can address any immediate issues for less than $1k, it'd be worth it. With 75k miles, someone will likely go for it.

I do agree she should get rid of both cars and get something better suited for her. A small CUV would indeed fit the bill well.

Or if she goes for a sedan, I'd definitely suggest the Sonata - what a great value!

nyccarguy

I really like when dealers advertise $0 Down (cap cost reduction) leases like that Toyota Dealer. There's a Buick/GMC dealer in CT that advertises its "cheap" leases with down payments between $4500 & $4999.

stickguy

well, except looking at the fine print, there are still plenty of $ due. People see 0 down and think sign/drive, but all that means is no CCR. There is still first payment and inception fee most of the time. Plus of course tax and DMV fees.

One reason when I was shopping I just said to roll everything in and I would write a check for $1,000. made it easy to compare. 1K is going to be about the inception fee, 1st payment, and part of the DMV stuff.

Sandman6472

Yes, the new Sonata is one of the nicer midsizers out there today actually, think it makes the Accord and Camry look old, like an old persons vehicle. I actually do like the Mazda6 and am starting to see more and more of them down here. Seems like both Honda and Toyota have lost their way a bit and their new products are just ho-hum with no excitement whatsoever. A shame since they used to lead the pack and now, they are two steps behind even with their new stuff...with Ford just about the same. When we go to our store at the Ford dealer, most of the folks are middle aged like myself...hardly any young people there. Even the Fusion looks old now and it's been out since like 2013 or so.

The Sandman

stickguy

Sandy, if you want a young person's opinion, I present my daughter.

when I was negotiating on the Accord, we sent a picture to my daughter. She said it was "an old person's car". When I mentioned the Camry, and mentioned that maybe she would end up with it, she said something along the lines of "I refuse to drive that"

But when we sent her a picture of the Sonata (after we had actually bought it), she was all excited by it. May have been the goodies content helping!

brian125

SANDMAN AND STICK shame on both of you. picking on the beloved Accord.
What happen to..................... Quality , Build, and Resale value??? #1 seller

How dare you call Accord owners and there vehicles old / men. Bringing in statements from your Crumb snatchers to justify your case.............lol

What I like about the new Sonata is if you compare it side by side to the Accord it beats it in almost every category head room, legroom etc. Hyundai did a nice job with this model. Gas mpg, h/p and resale are the the few things the Accord has over the Sonata. Looks may swing younger buyers to the Sonata. Hyundai has done it again with the Redesign 15 Genesis. A good bang for your buck if you plan on keeping this luxury vehicle.

stickguy

well, the 4 cyl Accord and Sonata are pretty close onHP (sonata might have a couple more) and MPG is right about the same, +/- a few depending on model. I forget the V6 Accord even exists since it is such a small % of sales.

I do think the Accord looks nice, especially the Sport. But I definitely give an edge to Sonata on interior design and features content. Both have nice steering and handling is fine for a family sedan. Sonata is definitely quieter. Tremendous sound insulation. Looking forward to getting it out on an actually highway run!

brian125

I tell you I have nothing but high praise for Hyundai and there on going accomplishments these past 10 years.

The Elantra, Sonata, Santa fe, and Genesis are perfect examples.

nyccarguy

The Full Size SUV category has some interesting options:

Nissan Armada Platinum 4WD - $54K

Toyota Sequoia Limited 4WD - $58K

stickguy

Full size "truck" SUVs do absolutely nothing for me. Could never see myself getting one. Different strokes for different folks!

I am a sucker for toys and gadgets now though. My "must have" list keeps growing! Add heated steering wheel (well, that is flexible). rear camera, cross-path monitoring, and BLIS? Must haves now! And shockingly, I really like having built in Navi. Just kind of cool. Do I need it? No. But it is neat to have sitting there while I drive! A Garmin is fine for when I actually need to navigate, But I leave it in the console the rest of the time.

corvette

As others have said, that's an incredible lease deal you got on the 2015 Sonata. With an Accord, you'd have to step up to the Touring trim to get some of those features, and I think your Sonata is better equipped.

oldbearcat

Mr_Shiftright said:

If you could extract some trouble codes from the car we could give you more advice on how to handle the repairs. I'm sure the dealer is stacking it up on her. This is the type of car you want to bail out on under 100K miles anyway, so I wouldn't put too much into it. I think the car is a money pit. And yes, get a second opinion. You don't have to go to a fancy-pants Jaguar shop to have this car worked on -- but of course you need something better than a chain store. It's certainly worth putting up to $1K in it to sell it, if the body and interior are really nice. If it's a rat, then yeah, let it go.

breld said:

I have to double check, but I believe it's the 3.0. She has the list from the dealer, so I'm gonna look at that, and maybe get the opinion from our mechanic. Like you said, it's more Ford than Jaguar, right?

I owned two X-Types a few years back, and , there's very little Ford in the drivetrains. These cars are expensive to fix, and, depreciated like mad. Check the current book value of the car before putting any more money in it. Good indy shops would be the cheapest place to affect repairs, but it may not be worth it.

Regards:
Oldbearcat

kyfdx

nyccarguy said:

The Full Size SUV category has some interesting options:

Nissan Armada Platinum 4WD - $54K

Toyota Sequoia Limited 4WD - $58K

Yes.. but, those two models seem to have way more problems than your typical Toyota or Nissan.. Plus, the Armada makes me want to poke my eyes out...

henryn

I don't know, $54k, $58k, that's a lot of money to me. You can buy a new Ford or Chevrolet 1/2 ton pickup, real crew cab, a lot of space for 5 or 6 adults, for around $30k. This would not include leather or navigation, but otherwise nicely equipped - aluminum or chrome clad wheels, good stereo with SiriusXM, bluetooth, and USB. 6 speed auto, powerful V8,

It would be hard for me to justify spending another $20k to $30k to have the SUV over the crew cab. Especially knowing the truck would hold it's value MUCH better.

breld

That is a lot of money - when we were looking at the Tahoe/Suburban, I asked the salesperson "Who buys these?" I suspect many of them are leased. Image must be a lot of it, since they offer little more (or less) function than smaller crossovers. And I get, cause I was seduced by the big truck myself.

breld

I did a little lot browsing last night while both my boys were in baseball practice (indoors of course). Checked out the Highlander - I do like the new model update, both in and out. Third row seems a bit close to the floor, though I do like the pass through between the second row captain chairs. All loaded up with a sticker in the low $40's. Hybrid was much more expensive, and didn't seem to gain much in MPG?

Also checked out Durangos again. They're really growing on me - pretty "manly" and "trucky" looking, yet with a pretty low roofline. Sort of like a jacked up Magnum. MSRP on those is surprisingly high, particularly compared to the Highlander I had just looked at. Nice Limited model is about the same as the Highlander Limited, and the "Citadel" model was stickering for low $50k's!

Real-world pricing with incentives probably makes the Dodge cheaper at the end of the day, and steep depreciation definitely makes used the way to go here. But with the 8-speed auto and interior updates they made for 2014, I would want that latest model. Several of them on the used market listed for low $30k's - thinking if I give it 6-12 months, they'll be into the mid-high $20k's.

isellhondas

oldbearcat said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

If you could extract some trouble codes from the car we could give you more advice on how to handle the repairs. I'm sure the dealer is stacking it up on her. This is the type of car you want to bail out on under 100K miles anyway, so I wouldn't put too much into it. I think the car is a money pit. And yes, get a second opinion. You don't have to go to a fancy-pants Jaguar shop to have this car worked on -- but of course you need something better than a chain store. It's certainly worth putting up to $1K in it to sell it, if the body and interior are really nice. If it's a rat, then yeah, let it go.

breld said:

I have to double check, but I believe it's the 3.0. She has the list from the dealer, so I'm gonna look at that, and maybe get the opinion from our mechanic. Like you said, it's more Ford than Jaguar, right?

I owned two X-Types a few years back, and , there's very little Ford in the drivetrains. These cars are expensive to fix, and, depreciated like mad. Check the current book value of the car before putting any more money in it. Good indy shops would be the cheapest place to affect repairs, but it may not be worth it.

Regards:
Oldbearcat

Jaguars are on the short list of cars that the store where I worked would wholesale rather than try to resell them when they were traded in. Painful experiences caused this.

I remember the warranty companies would sell aftermarket warranties on certain Jags but they really limited the miles and time. The warranties were VERY VERY expensive to buy and for good reason. They would NOT sell a warranty on any Land Rovers nor would our stopre resell them.

Mr_Shiftright

I appraised an X Type recently for an estate, along with a bunch of other cars owned by an elderly gent who is now incapacitated (you know, like me...). The Jaguar had cosmetic and mechanical issues and I pretty much advised the estate to junk it. The old guy could use the money elsewhere IMO.

nyccarguy

@henryn‌

Pickups aren't for everyone. They aren't cheap either. Now full sized pickups are volume sellers for GM, Ford, & RAM for sure. They throw a tremendous amount of incentives every which way. Their resale is terrific (I think you traded in a 2 year old pickup for not much less than you paid for it) which brings their cost of ownership down tremendously compared to an SUV built on the same platform with the same engine & transmission.

Why does my Dad drive a Tahoe? He's 6'2" tall & likes having a big, comfortable truck (he'd get the same space in a Silverado). He owns a small plumbing supply business & he's got to get to work no matter what. Especially in the winter (a Silverado also has the same 4WD capabilities). He commutes 6 days per week with our store's security detail, a 100 plus pound, 15 month old, Harlequin Great Dane with blue eyes named Ariel (she needs the room in the back to stand up & walk around (can't do that in a pickup truck).

I'd actually LOVE to buy a pickup truck, but can't justify the needs for one. Even if I were to use it for deliveries for work, we fill our 2006 Mitsubishi Fuso FE180 (14' Box Truck) to the gills with everything (tubs, toilets, under sink cabinets, 10' lengths of steel pipe, cast iron pipe, & copper pipe). I don't think I could fit a lot of that stuff into the back of a pickup.

jayrider

breld said:

I did a little lot browsing last night while both my boys interior updates they made for 2014, I would want that latest model. Several of them on the used market listed for low $30k's - thinking if I give it 6-12 months, they'll be into the mid-high $20k's.

while you are browsing, check out a CPO Buick Enclave. Nice depreciation and since Buick has a 4 year warranty, the CPO adds an additional year. Very smooth and quiet ride.