Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 15,299
    stickguy said:

    which dealer? there is one N. NJ dealer that is on my "won't ever go there again" list!

    I think Park Avenue Acura

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Unlimited 4Xe

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    oh. never shopped there. So no worries!

    My guess at this point, the local guy (same place I got the new RDX) will get to agree to match an actual legit deal elsewhere.

    though kind of pointless shopping right now, if not doing anything until November, in case the numbers change.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,603
    I saw the guy on LH which is what made me think of the MDX.

    @stickguy
    I can technically pull the trigger now. We close on the 30th and the ten day re-pull is all done and we are cleared to close.

    Is the Pilot that much bigger? When I last sat in the MDX it didn't seem that much smaller than the Enclave which is basically the same size as the Pilot.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 30,893
    tifighter said:

    xwesx said:

    Yeah, I have no issues with the design. I think they stuck with the Hummer physique while pushing a strong "post-modern" vibe. It is a bit of a farce that pretty much every feature they touted in the intro video is available only on the extremely-limited-production and top-of-the-line intro series. 1000 vehicles... all reserved within minutes of the reveal. The next-highest-trim level has none of that.... it's just a ho-hum electric truck. :D

    An $80K Hummer base truck with 250 miles range due in 2024.
    vs
    A $70K Cybertruck range topper with 500 miles due end of 2021.

    GM has some work to do.


    I'll believe it when it actually happens. If a 500-mile 2.9s $70k truck comes to fruition, that's fantastic. Too bad I can't stand looking at it, though.

    '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '21 WRX, '20 S90 T6, '22 4xE. 62-car history and counting! MB Sprinter and '92 Nissan Gloria on the way!

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    I didn't think there was a material difference between the MDX and Pilot. But never really compared. Both seemed big to me, compared to an RDX.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    tjc78 said:

    I saw the guy on LH which is what made me think of the MDX.

    @stickguy
    I can technically pull the trigger now. We close on the 30th and the ten day re-pull is all done and we are cleared to close.

    Is the Pilot that much bigger? When I last sat in the MDX it didn't seem that much smaller than the Enclave which is basically the same size as the Pilot.

    I am just skittish about doing anything right before a closing. Though could make the deal with them taking the Buick off your hands, and eating the last payment and dispo fee! Hey, never hurts to ask. Though not sure used car prices are still so over inflated now.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • pensfan83pensfan83 PennsylvaniaMember Posts: 2,260
    nyccarguy said:

    tjc78 said:

    My experience helping my friend a few weeks back was that the local dealer had an ungodly amount of MDX tech inventory - something like 70+.

    Their initial response to our offer was that we were using the wrong MF for the sale price (probably didn't love that we asked for a 4k+ dealer discount before incentives) which now makes more sense given what @michaell said above about the two different programs. We just said we'd take the offer to another local dealer who also had like 80 of them and they caved.

    Given the price points other 3 row SUVs are hitting right now, the outgoing MDX would be my top choice. Hardly a penalty box even though it is an older design.

    Thanks! Waiting on a quote now to see what they come back with.

    I’m thinking $500 with just first month OOP is possible for an SH-AWD Tech.

    I also just looked at the Advance again. It’s really not captains chairs. It’s a 40/20/40 bench. So access to third row is the same and you lose a seat.
    There's a dealer in Northern, NJ who posts on LH. He's no fee (as he's an Acura salesman).

    I agree with the others that even though the current MDX is dated, it is a strong value especially if you are going to lease. I wish it would work for me space wise. I'd probably ditch the Pilot and lease an MDX in a second.
    He was helpful when I reached out with some general questions. He provided info that made me adjust my expectations and align my offers with the market.
    1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2020 Acura RDX A-Spec SH-AWD - 2019 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road DC - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,603
    Yeah, I don't think I will unless it's a deal I can't refuse and I've cleared it with the mortgage guy.

    Way back when we started all this I mentioned needing to replace the Enclave and may need to do that while in the process of the loan. They said UW wouldn't have a problem with that as long as the payment was similar.

    I'm betting that the November deals on any 2020's won't be much different. If anything residuals will drop a bit and the other #s will compensate for it.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 206,809
    tjc78 said:

    Yeah, I don't think I will unless it's a deal I can't refuse and I've cleared it with the mortgage guy.

    Way back when we started all this I mentioned needing to replace the Enclave and may need to do that while in the process of the loan. They said UW wouldn't have a problem with that as long as the payment was similar.

    I'm betting that the November deals on any 2020's won't be much different. If anything residuals will drop a bit and the other #s will compensate for it.

    Acura programs run though 11/02

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  • au1994au1994 GAMember Posts: 2,778
    tjc78 said:

    Yeah, I don't think I will unless it's a deal I can't refuse and I've cleared it with the mortgage guy.

    Way back when we started all this I mentioned needing to replace the Enclave and may need to do that while in the process of the loan. They said UW wouldn't have a problem with that as long as the payment was similar.

    I'm betting that the November deals on any 2020's won't be much different. If anything residuals will drop a bit and the other #s will compensate for it.

    If you have made it through underwriting you should be fine. They have already pulled credit of course. Our refi took so long they had to pull credit again which I was not happy about. In the interim we had bought a Peloton and used their free money to finance. It did not show up on the new report when they pulled it. It wouldn’t have skewed anything but just shows you the lag.

    2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe Granite Crystal over Saddle
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
    2011 BMW 328i Jet Black over Tan

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 15,299
    tjc78 said:

    I saw the guy on LH which is what made me think of the MDX.

    @stickguy
    I can technically pull the trigger now. We close on the 30th and the ten day re-pull is all done and we are cleared to close.

    Is the Pilot that much bigger? When I last sat in the MDX it didn't seem that much smaller than the Enclave which is basically the same size as the Pilot.

    For us, the biggest difference was the room in the 3rd row and behind the 3rd row. In other 3 row SUVs that we sat in/test drove, the 2nd row slides back and butts right up against the 3rd row. In our Pilot, there is still some 3rd row leg room if the 2nd row is pushed all the way back. Usually 1 of the 3 kids is back there and we slide the 2nd row up to give whoever is in the 3rd row more leg room. Even when we slide the 2nd row forward, the kids in the 2nd row don't complain about leg room.

    Behind the 3rd row, the Pilot just has a few more inches of cargo space that makes a big difference for us. 26 Payments to go. December will be 3 years. Might as well ride it out.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Unlimited 4Xe

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,851
    11,500 lb-ft of torque just boggles the mind.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 204,715
    ab348 said:

    11,500 lb-ft of torque just boggles the mind.

    So, if they halved the power, would they have doubled the range?

    Is there even a relationship between the two? Still learning about EVs.

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  • tifightertifighter WAMember Posts: 3,098
    edited October 2020
    ab348 said:

    11,500 lb-ft of torque just boggles the mind.

    That's at the wheel. Which means about 1000 lb-ft of torque the way everyone else measures it - at the motor. Including GM on all of their other products.

    21 Tesla 3 Perf / 21 Tesla Y LR / 11 BMW Z4 6MT / 03 Montero Ltd

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,603
    Quote in on the MDX tech.

    $548 36/10K. With just first OOP. Sketchy details but said MF was .00225 which is marked up from @Michaell ‘s numbers above.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 204,715
    tjc78 said:

    Quote in on the MDX tech.

    $548 36/10K. With just first OOP. Sketchy details but said MF was .00225 which is marked up from @Michaell ‘s numbers above.

    Not exactly.

    You get the .00215 if:

    1. You are a returning Acura customer, or
    2. You make one security deposit (which we recommend)

    That's still a strong quote, but there might be room to move.

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  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,603
    D’oh! Just called them out on marking it up! Lol.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 204,715
    tjc78 said:

    D’oh! Just called them out on marking it up! Lol.

    Oops - that's what happens when you try to negotiate in real time with information you get from this thread.

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  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 204,715
    Michaell said:

    tjc78 said:

    D’oh! Just called them out on marking it up! Lol.

    Oops - that's what happens when you try to negotiate in real time with information you get from this thread.
    And, really - why mark up the MF by only .00010 - that isn't worth it to the dealer.

    Gotta do it like the Land Rover dealers do - markups of .00100 are commonly reported.

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  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 8,581
    edited October 2020
    You don’t qualify for loyalty, so that hurts. But conquest is $1500 and you’d qualify for that.

    What’s your tax, doc fee, and registration rate?
    2021 Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2008 Infiniti G35
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 204,715
    On an unrelated note, does anyone have a recommendation for an iPhone holder for the Outback? I'd like to get one for the wife, but not sure if I should get one that mounts to the vent, or the WeatherTech one that fits in the cup holder.

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  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,603

    You don’t qualify for loyalty, so that hurts. But conquest is $1500 and you’d qualify for that.

    What’s your tax, doc fee, and registration rate?

    We are 6.625% and the other fees are usually another $650 or so. The dealers never give all the numbers and since I’m not decided I’m not going to push.

    I have another Acura quote in as well.

    Once I decide is when I demand a breakdown to see where I can cut down a bit.

    All in all first pencil at $548 for a 53K MSRP isn’t too bad.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,603
    Michaell said:

    tjc78 said:

    D’oh! Just called them out on marking it up! Lol.

    Oops - that's what happens when you try to negotiate in real time with information you get from this thread.
    Don’t even sweat it! This group is like having 20 wingmen on call. Appreciate it all!

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZMember Posts: 5,285
    tifighter said:

    That's at the wheel. Which means about 1000 lb-ft of torque the way everyone else measures it - at the motor. Including GM on all of their other products.

    I figured that must be the case, given that a 650 hp Cummins diesel generates ~2050 lb-ft.

    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,066
    Michaell said:

    On an unrelated note, does anyone have a recommendation for an iPhone holder for the Outback? I'd like to get one for the wife, but not sure if I should get one that mounts to the vent, or the WeatherTech one that fits in the cup holder.

    Vent mount if the vent puts it in a good location. I have a Kenu (I think) that has worked well. Don’t use one in the Tundra since it has CarPlay.
  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 8,581
    It isn't a bad first pencil including conquest - 6.X% discount. I think you can push for 8%.
    2021 Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2008 Infiniti G35
  • au1994au1994 GAMember Posts: 2,778
    edited October 2020
    tjc78 said:

    Quote in on the MDX tech.

    $548 36/10K. With just first OOP. Sketchy details but said MF was .00225 which is marked up from @Michaell ‘s numbers above.

    Pretty strong opening bid on their part. How much of a discount in addition to the incentives?

    Edit- saw the other posts. Heck, getting it to a 1% lease looks doable. Take it and run.

    2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe Granite Crystal over Saddle
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
    2011 BMW 328i Jet Black over Tan

  • au1994au1994 GAMember Posts: 2,778
    Michaell said:

    On an unrelated note, does anyone have a recommendation for an iPhone holder for the Outback? I'd like to get one for the wife, but not sure if I should get one that mounts to the vent, or the WeatherTech one that fits in the cup holder.

    Be careful of the cup holder one. I bought one for the wife in the X1 and it didn’t fit as the cup holders are somewhat under the dash.

    I have a Vava off of Amazon. Magnetic to the phone and Command like strips to attach to the dash.

    2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe Granite Crystal over Saddle
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
    2011 BMW 328i Jet Black over Tan

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 204,715
    au1994 said:

    Michaell said:

    On an unrelated note, does anyone have a recommendation for an iPhone holder for the Outback? I'd like to get one for the wife, but not sure if I should get one that mounts to the vent, or the WeatherTech one that fits in the cup holder.

    Be careful of the cup holder one. I bought one for the wife in the X1 and it didn’t fit as the cup holders are somewhat under the dash.

    I have a Vava off of Amazon. Magnetic to the phone and Command like strips to attach to the dash.
    The cupholders in the Subaru are next to the gear shift.

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  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,764
    edited October 2020
    tifighter said:

    stickguy said:

    wonder how fast that 500 mile range drops towing anything near the towing capacity. and sounds like fun trying to pull a truck with a big trailer into a supercharger!

    Pull-through truck specific stalls are coming to superchargers next year. As for towing range, well, we don't know, but I'd rather start out with 500 miles than 250.
    Yes, so true!

    I'm not sure how many of the rest of you checked the information on the website, but, really, the only vehicle in the range that is even remotely worth the buy-in price is the limited edition. Granted, that one is hella-expensive (like $115K), though I'm guessing that the crazy roof and suspension features are what push it there.

    Honestly, if they had a trim that had all the practical stuff (Battery, anyone?!) and left the silly shock-factor features at the factory, that would be a winner, for me. As far as a direct comparison to the Cybertruck, if I was *really* in the market, it would take a fair bit of desperation for me to finally relent and go with the Tesla. Lots of cool features, but, frankly, it's a clown car.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    tjc78 said:

    Yeah, I don't think I will unless it's a deal I can't refuse and I've cleared it with the mortgage guy.

    Way back when we started all this I mentioned needing to replace the Enclave and may need to do that while in the process of the loan. They said UW wouldn't have a problem with that as long as the payment was similar.

    I'm betting that the November deals on any 2020's won't be much different. If anything residuals will drop a bit and the other #s will compensate for it.

    I guess technically you could make the deal this week, and just pick it up on Halloween.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    I think the vent or something that sticks on the dash makes more sense. Otherwise you are having to look down to see it. Better to be up in line of sight.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,757
    mjfloyd1 said:

    stickguy said:

    Here’s one for RB. a club sport to go with his club sport.

    https://carsandbids.com/auctions/92RqJAox/2019-bmw-m4-cs

    An M2 CS has just arrived...
    Is this one a keeper?
    Not mine- just the last hurrah for this generation of the 2 Series.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,842
    Sounds like more non-GAAP accounting B)
    tifighter said:


    That's at the wheel. Which means about 1000 lb-ft of torque the way everyone else measures it - at the motor. Including GM on all of their other products.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    nice review on the new Elantra N line (the successor to my old Elantra Sport). Sounds like they addressed the few issues I had with it. Too bad he didn't get to drive the manual, but I will say that the Hyundai 7 speed DSG was a sweet match to the 1.6t engine.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,842
    Wow that DLO fail, an entire fake window, I wonder who signed off on that. Pet peeve.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Coral Springs, FLMember Posts: 6,236
    edited October 2020
    Just watched the video of the 2021 Elantra N-Line and really liked it! Not sure if the length will work for my parking situation, but will definitely give it a try once it comes to our marketplace. Was obvious how much the reviewer liked the car and think Hyundai did a nice job with it's overall look, both inside and out. Looks killer in red and assuming it'll also come in black & white and hopefully a gray color. Only negative for me is that it's a sedan and I prefer a hatchback to be honest but hopefully, Hyundai will make it in a hatch also. Looks to be a more grown up vehicle now and they did a great job shrinking the Sonata. Also was impressed with the projected miles per gallon, as it seems to be more on the economical side while driving more on the sporty side. A very good combination if his figures play out here in the real world. Am hoping that it'll cost somewhere around the $25K point or even less. I would definitely go with the auto tranny if I did indeed purchase one. And like most Hyundai/Kia products, am assuming it'll be "cheap to keep", something I'd like going forward if possible. Depending on how it drives and the cost, could definitely see me buying one as my next vehicle!
    Good job Hyundai!!!

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2)

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Coral Springs, FLMember Posts: 6,236
    Rained all day today so it was a bit of a chore driving at work. I had to drive the 13-pack right around lunchtime, but glad I did. While at PBI getting two vehicles to bring to an office in Lantana, the other two got into a slight accident while one was backing up. It didn't hurt the paint but it left a nice dimple in the sheet metal. Naturally, there were forms to fill out and it took a good hour to get that all done. But accidents do happen, just part of the game I suspect. We eventually got another vehicle and dropped both off at the location that needed them. Was just glad that I wasn't involved to be honest. I'm sure that after a certain amount of these fender benders, Enterprise would have no choice but to let the multiple offender go. No one likes to fire someone or get fired, but depending on how many vehicles get damaged, management has no other choice than to sever ties with that person. I do remember someone I worked with as an independent contractor who also got hired by Hertz, getting fired because he had a bunch of small fender benders. Guess they felt that he was too great a risk and had to say good bye once and for all.
    I know these kind of things are sometimes unavoidable but I try very hard to be as careful as I can so not to have one. I did have one at Hertz, minor though it was, I still had to fill out paperwork and then go for a drug test. Doubt they do the drug testing anymore, but back then, it was mandatory. And with all the rain today, we saw a multitude of accidents all over South Florida!

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2)

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 30,893
    fintail said:

    Wow that DLO fail, an entire fake window, I wonder who signed off on that. Pet peeve.

    Huh?

    '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '21 WRX, '20 S90 T6, '22 4xE. 62-car history and counting! MB Sprinter and '92 Nissan Gloria on the way!

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    Fin doesn't like plastic filler pieces. I think that one looks fine, though I agree with the reviewer, putting in a small window would have been nice.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    Sandy, it is probably about 175-178" long. Last I heard, they were dropping the Elantra GT (the shorter hatchback version) so I doubt that it will be reintroduced with this model design. If you want something like that, need to look at a Kona or Seltos.

    MPG on the 1.6t/DSG powertrain was good. I regularly got 30 local, and could easily break 40 on a highway run, and it was still very quick when you felt like going fast. and ran on RUG.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,851

    Just watched the video of the 2021 Elantra N-Line and really liked it! Not sure if the length will work for my parking situation, but will definitely give it a try once it comes to our marketplace.

    This would be a terrible car for you, Sandy. It is 184" long so I don't know if it even fits in your garage. Early reviews are also mentioning difficulty getting in and out, which is an unusual thing to mention so there must be an issue there beyond it just being low. 18" wheels on a sport suspension equals a harsh ride more than likely as well. It isn't coming in a hatchback so forget about that too. Sorry to rain on your parade. :disappointed:

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    ride was not cushy, but the handling made up for it. But it is definitely tuned toward the sporty side. But far from harsh. It's a small sedan, and unfortunately style over easy of accessibility is the rule these days.

    I am curious to test one out though.

    184"? Really? I did not think it grew that much.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,851
    stickguy said:

    ride was not cushy, but the handling made up for it. But it is definitely tuned toward the sporty side. But far from harsh.

    Until the new one gets driven, any assessment of ride quality is at best a guess. Given this is a N-line model and not the previous sporty iteration, I would guess it is stiffer.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,646
    the N line is the old sport with a new name. The real hot rod is the N model, and that is not out yet.

    Hyundai is just as confusing with names as Caddy is, with their V type, and V, which were totally different cars! I guess BMW does the same thing with M cars, and Msport trim packages.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 30,893
    stickguy said:

    Fin doesn't like plastic filler pieces. I think that one looks fine, though I agree with the reviewer, putting in a small window would have been nice.

    I thought MAYBE he was referring to that. But DLO? That's what threw me.

    '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '21 WRX, '20 S90 T6, '22 4xE. 62-car history and counting! MB Sprinter and '92 Nissan Gloria on the way!

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,851
    qbrozen said:


    I thought MAYBE he was referring to that. But DLO? That's what threw me.

    DLO is shorthand for "daylight opening". I had to look it up the first time I encountered the term.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,764
    edited October 2020
    That @fintail.... he is WAY too hip for this crowd! :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,842
    DLO Fail DLO = Daylight Opening, failing when black filler panels or complete fake windows are used to complete a window line. Lazy design IMO.
    qbrozen said:


    Huh?

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