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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482

    If you get a judgment on someone, they can be harassed--you can garnishee their wages, you can seize their bank account and if they have a very fat IRA, you can go after that, too. And of course, if they own property, yum, yum. The perp's only defense is to file Chapter 7, and even then you may be able to vacuum his bank account, but as soon as he files a 7 you can no longer dun him.

    Unless they like hiding under a rock, some pressure may work.

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 12,707

    Andres...I'm thinking if your insurance company picks up the delta between the repair costs + DV after the initial $10K from Mercury (never heard of them, btw), they'll very definitely go after the offending underinsured defendant.

    Craig, while I know insurance companies do indeed fight anyone claiming DV. But, there's a difference between a person driving a 6 year old Camry that they bought for $20K, and someone who bought a semi rare model, 4K miles, practically new $50K+ Audi. If Andres were to try to replace it, even if he could find a used one with that low mileage, he's staring at high $40s, with a pristine record. I'd make the case I hadn't even had that first oil change, yet.

    Couple of letters from dealers, and a Magistrate or Judge who understands the car that was wrecked, it should be relatively easty to prove DV.

    This scenario really irritates me, and it's not even my car.

    Not sure what the state mandated liability limits are here in Ohio, but $10K sounds low. $10K barely covers a moderate fender bender these days.

    2019 Kia Stinger GT2
  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 8,074

    @oldfarmer50 said:
    Just a guess here but maybe his Lexus was a lease and he took the minimum required insurance?

    The last lease I had, the finance company required I carry something like $50k property damage liability and $100k/300k bodily injury liability (I carried more than that anyway), to protect them (and, by extension, me).

    andres3, I sent you a PM with a little more specific info.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 40,360

    yeah, when I was looking into insurance for my son, they asked about buy or lease, because they require higher minimums.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 11,451

    Yes, 100/300/50 for just about any lease company. I couldn't imagine carrying anything less than that anyway. Even in NJ it's not that much more per year.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • au1994au1994 GAPosts: 1,836

    @rayainsw said:
    BMW M235i - my second test drive.

    Note: this M235i had been ordered with [ for whatever reason ] run flat Perelli all season tires.
    Cinturato P7s – size 225/40 x 18s – same size front & rear.

    I drove another M235i this afternoon. I do not trust myself to make a decision to spend this amount of money [ close to $50,000 MSRP, loaded ] without taking at lease 2 test drives – preferably separated by more than a week.

    Aside from the different tires mentioned above, this was fundamentally & dynamically the same as the previous unit I drove. I also drove this one as I drive my cars almost every day, year ‘round = sunroof in full rear tilt up. I used the paddle shifters extensively, shifting up and down at various RPM and throttle openings. Excellent engine TQ. Flexible and very quick at every speed and any RPM. [ Briefly up to 80 MPH = approx.. 2250 RPM in top gear. ] Excellent exhaust sounds - on acceleration & on the overrun. Obvious, but not obnoxiously loud. Just right, for me

    The automatic may not shift quite as quickly as the best dual clutch gearboxes, but it is very quick, while also not jarring at all – kudos. Upshifts begin with no discernable delay between paddle shift movement and shift execution. The downshifts are similarly quick, with precise rev matching and smooth transitions. 8 gears may seem like a lot of shifting would be going on, but in Drive, unless you are watching the tachometer and listening to the engine, there is virtually no indication that shifting occurs. Smooth.

    The ride was certainly OK with the run flat tires, but as certainly was better with the Michelin Pilot Super Sports non-run flats. The handling was very good, though I never approach cornering limits in any test drive. To me, it feels both agile and well planted. Secure & ‘tossable’ - fun.

    I did the test drive with a substitute sales rep, as ‘mine’ was tied up when I arrived.
    So – after my drive, the sub went to fetch my sales rep, and the sales person [ name withheld ] said they had not driven one. In fact, said that they had not even seen one before this one arrived at the dealership [ 7 miles when I took the wheel. ] I volunteered to be a passenger if they wanted to take the opportunity to drive now.

    I was rather surprised that the offer was accepted. The sales person [ a very good and very aggressive driver ] cornered harder than I have ever come close to in a test drive – also exceeded the speed limits by more than I would typically dare. It was very interesting to observe from the passenger seat. Absorbing the sensations without having to also pay close attention to traffic and road conditions. The tires never gave any hint of being overworked. Certainly not dangerous driving, but far beyond anything I would dream of doing – even with a well broken in, used BMW - let alone one with barely 15 miles on the odometer, at the start of this second ‘test drive’.

    So. Very, very impressed, I am. I think it better fits my wants & needs, at the price point, than anything else currently available. Worth every dime of what I expect would be a negotiated transaction price – to me.

    Want one. Now. But will likely wait a while & order one later this year – or early next.

    • Ray

      From a BMW press release about the new 2 series – ‘Addictive power: six-cylinder in-line engine with M Performance TwinPower Turbo technology.’

    ‘Addictive: very enjoyable in a way that makes you want to do or have

    something again’. I agree.

    Sorry to be late to the party on this one, been out of town for a bit.

    I noticed my dealer has 2 in stock (may be the same dealer Ray uses) and both are black on black, one 228i and one M235i. This dealer seems to keep a ton of black on black cars, especially 3 series, in inventory. Don't understand that here in Atlanta. My E92 was blk/blk and it was a killer in the summer.

    Anyway, the sticker on the 228i is 43.6 and they want 51.6 for the M. Seems like a lotta bucks for the I6 and a huge gap between the two models. But, based on Ray's review I'd say its worth it and an M is the only one I'd have!!

    FWIW, 51.6 is more than what the sticker was on my F30.

    2008 Toyota Land Cruiser White over Tan
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,333

    @graphicguy said:
    Andres...I'm thinking if your insurance company picks up the delta between the repair costs + DV after the initial $10K from Mercury (never heard of them, btw), they'll very definitely go after the offending underinsured defendant.

    Craig, while I know insurance companies do indeed fight anyone claiming DV. But, there's a difference between a person driving a 6 year old Camry that they bought for $20K, and someone who bought a semi rare model, 4K miles, practically new $50K+ Audi. If Andres were to try to replace it, even if he could find a used one with that low mileage, he's staring at high $40s, with a pristine record. I'd make the case I hadn't even had that first oil change, yet.

    Couple of letters from dealers, and a Magistrate or Judge who understands the car that was wrecked, it should be relatively easty to prove DV.

    This scenario really irritates me, and it's not even my car.

    Not sure what the state mandated liability limits are here in Ohio, but $10K sounds low. $10K barely covers a moderate fender bender these days.

    I totally agree with you. On a high end car that is practically new, a dirty Car Fax will really hurt it. It's just hard to say how much it's value will be affected.

    Modern body shops that have the equipment and skills can do a great job of restoring a car to like new condition but potential buyers still think that a car will "never be the same" after an accident.

    And, who knows how bad the collision was and how skilled the shop was that fixed it?

    It get's pretty murky to say the least.

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 3,091
    edited March 2014

    au1994 -

    Everyone clearly needs to decide for him \ her self if any car is worth the asking price.

    The 228i starts at $33,025 with Destination. One with an MSRP of $43.6 would have to be ‘loaded’ with nearly every option offered.

    And the M235i starts at $44,025 with Dest. The way I would order one, today [ adding metallic paint, cold pkg & Premium pkg ] would sticker for $47,425.

    In the context of what else is currently available, this is what I would buy – if buying \ ordering today. Part of the ‘context’ is: That M235i MSRP is almost exactly $10,000 less than the [ US ] MSRP of the 2011 335iS I took delivery of in Munich. And [ for me ] I believe it is actually a better car than that 335iS in almost every aspect – and certainly in the ‘top 10’ aspects most important to me.

    Does not make it a bargain, but ‘worth it’, to me.

    • Ray

    NOT ordering today . . .

    2016 BMW 340i
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 16,918

    @[email protected] said:
    If you get a judgment on someone, they can be harassed--you can garnishee their wages, you can seize their bank account and if they have a very fat IRA, you can go after that, too. And of course, if they own property, yum, yum. The perp's only defense is to file Chapter 7, and even then you may be able to vacuum his bank account, but as soon as he files a 7 you can no longer dun him.

    Unless they like hiding under a rock, some pressure may work.

    Some people live under rocks and like it there. From personal experience I can tell you that a real dead beat is hard to collect a judgement from.

    True, you can attach all sorts of assets IF you can identify them. Unless you have bank account numbers or know where they work it's hard to get at their money. Some even work off the books so you can't even prove income. If the car is a lease you can't seize it.

    Also, your collection agent ( usual the sheriff) my be just too busy (or too lazy) to enforce any collection.

    Civil cases are seldom like Perry Mason.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • au1994au1994 GAPosts: 1,836

    @rayainsw said:
    au1994 -

    Everyone clearly needs to decide for him \ her self if any car is worth the asking price.

    The 228i starts at $33,025 with Destination. One with an MSRP of $43.6 would have to be ‘loaded’ with nearly every option offered.

    And the M235i starts at $44,025 with Dest. The way I would order one, today [ adding metallic paint, cold pkg & Premium pkg ] would sticker for $47,425.

    In the context of what else is currently available, this is what I would buy – if buying \ ordering today. Part of the ‘context’ is: That M235i MSRP is almost exactly $10,000 less than the [ US ] MSRP of the 2011 335iS I took delivery of in Munich. And [ for me ] I believe it is actually a better car than that 335iS in almost every aspect – and certainly in the ‘top 10’ aspects most important to me.

    Does not make it a bargain, but ‘worth it’, to me.

    • Ray

    NOT ordering today . . .

    I agree with you all the way around. I am hoping to get my 05 into that dealer this weekend for an oil change and inspection and will try to get some seat time.

    If my lease were up on the 335i were up today the M235i would be the 1st and 2nd choice. I can get by with a coupe as well. I do have to say I am very intrigued by the upcoming Audi S3.

    As with any other model, I think prices will stabilize a bit once there is a decent supply in the market, only caveat to that is I have heard BMW is going to keep M235i production down. I can't believe they would keep it too restricted if there is demand.

    2008 Toyota Land Cruiser White over Tan
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,602

    @oldfarmer50 said:

    Perry Mason isn't real ? Next you'll tell me there is no Easter Bunny.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 14,433

    Interesting dealership visit. My best friend's wife drives a 2012 X5. Her lease is up in June. My friend is starting to research the X5s replacement. While they both LOVE the way the X5 drives, they don't like how rough it rides on anything but freshly paved roads nor do they like how many tires it has gone through. He's super careful, she wasn't at 1st, but after the first 4 "flats" & sidewall bubbles she is. He drives a 2011 LTZ Tahoe (like my Dad's, they got it on the same day from the same dealership). He goes to Lexus of Westport (extremely wealthy area) to inquire about the GX 460. That's about as far as he got.

    "Hi, I'm interested in checking out a 2014 GX 460 for my wife."

    "We currently don't have any in stock for you to see. Every single one is sold before it comes in. What does your wife drive now?"

    "She has a 2012 X5. I've never sat in one before, much less driven one, how will I know if I like it and if my wife will like it? You really don't even have one I can look at?"

    "Driving the GX will make you think the BMW rides like a Chevy. We sell 100 cars per month (don't laugh Mike, but the dealers up here aren't nearly as big as the ones in FLA). It is the end of the month and we have exactly 2 RXs and 1 LX in stock."

    "a Chevy huh?"

    "We are supposed to be getting a 2012 Pre Owned GX 460 on Thursday. You can come back and look at it/test drive it if you like. The interior is the same. Exterior is slight different."

    The salesman also told him that his clients tell him once they drive a GX, they don't want anything else. They just trade in for a new one. The resale value is so high that most trade in their 36 month leases after 30 months. They get a new one with a lower payment.

    He plans on going back on Thursday just to check it out.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,440

    ....... but after the first 4 "flats" & sidewall bubbles ......

    boomchek: driven 10,000+ cars, sold 1000+ cars, owned 50+ cars

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 12,707

    nyc....just an opinion, but I would bet the Tahoe trumps the GX. It's been a couple of years since I have driven a GX that a neighbor had, but I don't think they change all that much.

    My previous gen Tahoe was actually one of the best vehicles I had ever owned. Great ride, and for the size, handled well. MPG was not its strong suit, but it won't be with a GX, either. Plus, I can guarantee that maintenance on the Tahoe would be a ton cheaper than it would be with a GX.

    For reasons I can't explain, Lexus dealers aren't the most customer friendly. I've made a few attempts to deal with the two Lexus dealers around Southern OH and Northern KY. My impression is they just don't seem to care one way or the other.

    2019 Kia Stinger GT2
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 28,581

    sounds like all Toyota dealers I've dealt with, too.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 53-car history and counting!

  • fintailfintail Posts: 52,273

    I'll say one of the biggest annoyances on the Bluetec are the tires - runflats are loud and feel like normal tires that are way overinflated. The worst part of it is that other market adblue cars get normal tires with a patch kit - but probable fear of the lawyering cabal in Murica made MB put rfts on the diesels here. Stupid. If I was keeping the car, I'd swap them out and risk it with a patch kit.

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 14,110

    If I buy another late model BMW-which, even after owning 10 Bimmers since 1983 is in considerable doubt-it will almost certainly be either a Z4 M Coupe or an E92 M3 ZCP. I think my good. friend and fellow Roundel contributor Mark Calabrese are going to embark on a joint M Coupe hunt come the summer months...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 40,360

    I was considering renting a car to try something new later in April for an extended road trip (philly-> south carolina -> N. carolina -> home). Thought I might give the family truckster (RDX) a break before I blow out the warranty on it. Of course, at the time I thought it was going to be just me and the kid, but now turns out the wife is coming too, so leaving it home for her doesn't really apply! That trip will probably end up being about 1,300 miles in 4 days.

    also making a quick RT next week to Boston (only about 650 miles) so that will be about a 2K hit in one month. But, we paid all the money for it, might as well use it. I just hate the tiny gas tank on long trips.

    If it was just me and kid going to Beantown we might have taken the Volvo, but I really don't care to drive it that far. And the TL is getting a bit long in the tooth at this point. Going to restrict that to about a 2 hour radius I think.

    will definitely need a replacement car if I change jobs and add a 30-40 mile RT commute again, or if the kid goes to college at a place where she can have a car (unless it is the local school (45 minutes away) in which case she can keep the Volvo).

    I am almost hoping the Boston school wins. That way, she will never need a car, so I can hog the resources for my own wheels!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • breldbreld Posts: 5,460
    edited March 2014

    Man, some of these Lexus dealers sure are arrogant.

    A few years ago I was at a work function and one of my co-worker's husband was a salesperson for Lexus. We talked cars a bit, and at the time I had just purchased my 530xi. He was pretty bold (much like the salesperson on the GX vs. X5 discussion above) about his distaste for BMWs and how they rode so rough.

    A couple of years later, he had switched dealerships and was happily selling to several co-workers at my company. At a BMW dealership.

    2018 X3 M40i - 2020 Supra - 2020 MINI JCW Hardtop - 2020 Leaf

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 40,360

    The only dealers where I really recall being ignored (dissed?) was the Lexus dealer, and of all things, a Chevy dealer. At least the Lexus place may have profiled me!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,201

    @isellhondas said:

    I've had 3 cars repaired in my lifetime by auto body shops, (not counting the S4). One was pretty extensive damage, one was moderate (like the S4), and one was minor (just the rear bumper).

    I can tell you that the body shops are 0 for 3 at restoring the cars to like-new condition. One did very good work, but the car was just never the same (didn't handle the same; frame was bent). One did lousy work and it showed. The other couldn't even paint the rear bumper correctly nor make it fit quite right (and that's all that needed fixing).

    So I think diminished value at 15 to 20% of the value makes sense from what I've seen in my limited experience in my lifetime. It's basically a reflection that body shops are limited in their capabilities; even the best of them (I think). Audi specifically said if frame damage shows up on the Car Fax (or is found by the used car appraiser on inspection) the car can't be sold "certified used," which certainly lowers its value further.

    Like insurance, body shops seem to be one big rip off and fraud. I'd prefer we just eliminate the whole industry and say that all damages are not repairable, and all cars must be totaled when involved in an accident. AT least, if there is structural damage, total the car. I realize my sample of experience is limited, and maybe this "Audi" authorized body shop will change my mind about the car body repair business as a whole.

    '15 Audi S4 quattro AWD Prestige, '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 14,433

    @graphicguy

    The Tahoe is my friend's truck. He loves it. He's car shopping for his wife. My Dad also has a 2011 Tahoe that he loves. He says besides the Cayenne that he just got rid of a few months ago, the Tahoe is the best riding car he's ever owned.

    @fintail

    What brand of tires are on the BlueTec? At 26,000 miles, I switched from the stock Continentals to Michelin Primacy MXM ZP (zero pressure) and couldn't be happier. The stock continentals were getting loud and really felt like there was nothing Between me and the pot holes. The Michelins do everything better & are still doing great after 13,000 miles. Now would I switch a car that has traditional tires to run flats? No. But I wouldn't hesitate to buy another car with run flats.

    @boomcheck

    Funny you say that. My parents had an '08 328xi and they thought it rode horribly. My 2011 drives like a completely different car.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 14,433

    @andres3

    There are some exquisite body shops out there, you just have to find them. They are off the beaten path. Obviously there are accidents that couldn't even be fixed if the car was brought back to the factory. I have seen some really crummy body work (mismatched color, misaligned body panels, drip marks, over spray...), but I've also seen some extraordinary body work that is virtually undetectable.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,201

    @nyccarguy said:
    andres3

    but I've also seen some extraordinary body work that is virtually undetectable.

    Ahhh... Therein lies the rub... Even you admit extraordinary excellent body work is still detectable, as you qualified it with "virtually."

    If it's detectible there is diminished value. Would you rather have an S4 built in Ingolstadt, Germany, or an S4 built in Escondido, CA. One builds hundreds if not thousands a year, the other builds a handful yearly (at most).

    I know where I'd rather get mine.

    '15 Audi S4 quattro AWD Prestige, '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 8,074
    edited March 2014

    @andres3 said:
    Like insurance, body shops seem to be one big rip off and fraud.

    You can blame the insurance industry for part of that. They have artificially kept body shop labor rates low (below $30 per hour for some types of work) and in many instances refuse to pay what it actually costs for a top-notch repair. I, too, have rarely been impressed with body work that I've seen. Honestly, in what business can you gross $30-50 per hour, pay skilled employees, and cover your overhead for materials, equipment, and real estate? The short answer is that you can't, so corners end up getting cut. Not to mention that a body shop has always has an inherent disincentive to total the car--if they total it at the outset, they don't get to charge tens of thousands of dollars in repair costs.

    When I had a minor repair done to my leased Audi A4 after someone backed into it, the Audi certified body shop did an outstanding job with the paint work, but when I received the car back, one of the floor mats was missing its retainer clip, the entire interior was covered with dust, and they somehow had managed to get a milky residue on the inside of the instrument cluster. Hope you have better luck with your Audi.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482

    There's DV even if the repairs aren't detectable. This is called "inherent DV".

  • fintailfintail Posts: 52,273

    Bridgestone Turanza. They won't wear out before the end of the lease, but if I was buying a car, I'd maybe hope to find one with worn tires so I can justify replacing them with conventional tires. I am not sold on the tech. I'll risk it with a patch kit - I swear I can strongly feel the handling and ride difference.

    @nyccarguy said:
    fintail

    What brand of tires are on the BlueTec?

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 14,433

    @fintail

    There's your problem. Bridgestones.

    @andres3

    I'm not doubting the diminished value isn't there. With the advent and popularity it most definitely is. Even if you shipped your car back to the factory to have them fix it, it will be worth less than one that was never hit at all. I am just saying that it is possible to have a car with thousands of dollars in damage fixed to its per-accidental condition.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,201

    One question to ask is if Insurance companies are hypocritical when it comes to DV. Let's say there was a 2nd accident later on in the future that totaled the car. Might some less faithful insurance companies try to use DV against you in cashing out the car that's totaled the second time around? If insurance companies don't consider previous accidents in determining ACV (actual cash value), at least they are being consistent.

    I'd love to see my S4 restored to its pre-accident condition. That would mean it's "virtually" flawless, and has no rattles. The only flaw I heard or saw in the first 4,100 miles was that two times the CD player appeared to rattle with the CD spinning inside it when no music was playing (because I switched to another source or turned it off). I haven't been able to duplicate the issue though. I was going to bring this up at the 5K mile service, but other then that, it's been flawless on warranty issues.

    Knowing my luck this accident might cause my S4 to turn into a lemon. I'll never really know if it was the accident or the car from now on.

    '15 Audi S4 quattro AWD Prestige, '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 8,074

    @andres3 said:
    Might some less faithful insurance companies try to use DV against you in cashing out the car that's totaled the second time around?

    This is actually a good argument in favor of recognizing DV, even on first-party claims. If they do that, and there is a subsequent claim where the vehicle is totaled, the insurance company would only be obligated to pay the value of a similar car which was previously involved in a similar collision (i.e., a lower total loss payout).

    I'd love to see my S4 restored to its pre-accident condition. That would mean it's "virtually" flawless, and has no rattles.

    Don't get your hopes up. My GLI has developed a resonance at certain RPMs, and the driver's door (which had its shell replaced) now sounds extremely hollow when I close it.

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 12,707

    @andres3 said:

    If there's paint work done, then it's detectable, no matter how good the shop.

    Probably the most egregious body work I had seen was on several new Infinitis that a dealer was working on near Dayton, OH. This was probably more than 5 years ago, but I was looking at G coupes. The local dealer and I have never been able to come to terms. This Dayton dealer and I had a deal on the table, pending inspection.

    As these things go, I made an appt to look at the car. When I got to the dealership, my sales person was tied up with someone else, but another sales guy offered to find the car I was interested in for me.

    "I think they're just finishing it up."

    "Finishing what up?"

    At this point, I could tell he had committed a faux pas of some sort. Too late. We were walking towards their detail shop, as the car was being pulled out of the body shop. We were walking towards it when this happened. The car was the only red one I could find in a 3 state area, so I know that's the one I had been negotiating on over the phone.

    Cut to the chase, some accident happened with a roof and falling debris in one of the buildings where new cars were being prepped after getting to the dealership.

    This created several dents in several cars. It didn't appear that any of it was serious, there were just a lot of little dents in the cars (almost like hail damage). The red one was one of maybe 8-10 they were in different stages of completing repairs on.

    I didn't find this story out until my sales person became free and he tried ti minimize what had happened.

    Nothing that a few dent pullers, some bondo and paint couldn't rectify. But, the dealer was going to try to sell me a NEW car which had bondo and paint work.

    That deal didn't happen.

    Anyone who's been around cars a little bit can find paint where it shouldn't be. Or, slightly misfit panels. Or, wiring that isn't secured in the right place, etc. Knock on the body panels and you'll be able to tell where there is metal and where there is bondo.

    Some shops are very good, esepecially with the details. Some shops are a bit more caereless. None can totally disguise body work, though (unless they're using all new panels, which insurance companies won't allow).

    2019 Kia Stinger GT2
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,677

    I have had very good experience with body work, paint and otherwise. A lot of deer-car encounters where I live.

    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 28,581

    the telltale sign I've seen every time is a paint "lip" where the tape was on the inside of a jamb.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 53-car history and counting!

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 14,356

    @corvette said:
    Don't get your hopes up. My GLI has developed a resonance at certain RPMs, and the driver's door (which had its shell replaced) now sounds extremely hollow when I close it.

    I suspect those two things are related. It is quite possible that they did not install sound deadening material in to that shell before they loaded up all the gear and wiring into it. Have you brought this up to them? If so, what was the response?

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 12,707

    @qbrozen said:
    the telltale sign I've seen every time is a paint "lip" where the tape was on the inside of a jamb.

    Q....yep....that's almost on every repair job I've seen.

    2019 Kia Stinger GT2
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 2,701

    Would you rather have an S4 built in Ingolstadt, Germany, or an S4 built in Escondido, CA. One builds hundreds if not thousands a year, the other builds a handful yearly (at most).

    This makes me chuckle, as I have done the tour at Ingolstadt, and the guide said that line workers were allowed a half liter of beer per hour during work shifts. "After all, this is Bavaria" they said.

    18 Tesla X Performance / 18 Tesla 3 Performance / 11 BMW Z4 6MT

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 14,433

    @kyfdx

    I think your email has been hacked

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,104

    @nyccarguy said:
    kyfdx

    I think your email has been hacked

    If you got an email from him in which was just rambling on about how much he adores his fellow hosts, that's normal and to be expected. Consider it legit. ;)

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  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,201

    @tifighter said:
    Would you rather have an S4 built in Ingolstadt, Germany, or an S4 built in Escondido, CA. One builds hundreds if not thousands a year, the other builds a handful yearly (at most).

    This makes me chuckle, as I have done the tour at Ingolstadt, and the guide said that line workers were allowed a half liter of beer per hour during work shifts. "After all, this is Bavaria" they said.

    I'll take a trained professional who has had a half liter of beer with lunch over an untrained inept UAW assembly person any day. And some Chrysler workers were shown on video cameras potentially drinking a lot more than 1/2 liter of beer during breaks.

    '15 Audi S4 quattro AWD Prestige, '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 171,266

    @andres3 said:
    ...untrained inept UAW assembly person...

    Quite the sweeping generalization there!

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • fintailfintail Posts: 52,273

    Same beer thing at the AMG engine facility, IIRC. But when a place isn't beholden to an asinine drinking age, perhaps people can handle their drinks better.

  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 8,074

    @andres3 said:
    And some Chrysler workers were shown on video cameras potentially drinking a lot more than 1/2 liter of beer during breaks.

    1/2 liter of bourbon is lower in carbs! :D

  • breldbreld Posts: 5,460

    So I "bought" my car today. As I had intended to do at some point, I purchased my Passat out of its lease. As I expected and hoped, the payoff was simply the cap cost, reduced by the three payments made so far (the first one by VW Credit), taking into account the effective interest for those three months. So, didn't have to pay the rental charge for the stated term, no term or disposition fees (since I was purchasing the car). They tried to tack on the $499 dealer handling, but I kindly expressed my opinion that it wasn't stipulated in the lease contract, and they backed it off. Paid sales tax of course on the payoff amount.

    Put a chunk down on the payoff and financed the remainder at 2.24%. Pretty good for essentially financing a "used" car.

    So, pretty happy with the approach of leasing to take advantage of the lease incentives (huge for VW), then converting to a purchase.

    2018 X3 M40i - 2020 Supra - 2020 MINI JCW Hardtop - 2020 Leaf

  • breldbreld Posts: 5,460

    While at the VW dealer I did throw out the idea of wanting a nicer model Passat, wondering if they would be eager enough for another sale to more or less give me enough value on the current car to cut my losses and lease a new, nicer one.

    Not unexpectedly, the depreciation was too much to stomach and I kindly declined. Doesn't hurt to try.

    2018 X3 M40i - 2020 Supra - 2020 MINI JCW Hardtop - 2020 Leaf

  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 2,701

    @andres3 said:

    I guess. All I will say is as a two-time Audi owner, learning this fact did not surprise me in the least. But a great tour if you ever get the chance.

    18 Tesla X Performance / 18 Tesla 3 Performance / 11 BMW Z4 6MT

  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 2,701

    @breld Congrats on the 'conversion .' You always hear that leasing a car you intend to buy is a bad idea, but you seem to made the incentives work in your favor. Of course, now that the lease is gone, it's easier to trade... B)

    18 Tesla X Performance / 18 Tesla 3 Performance / 11 BMW Z4 6MT

  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 2,701

    @fintail said:
    Same beer thing at the AMG engine facility, IIRC.

    Would like to do a MB tour but I rarely get up to Stuttgart. Back to CH and F in a few weeks.

    18 Tesla X Performance / 18 Tesla 3 Performance / 11 BMW Z4 6MT

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 14,433

    @breld

    glad you liked the car enough to buy it out just a few months into the lease. You made the lease terms work in your favor and got a nice interest rate to finance. I say as soon as you can, you are going to trade "up" for a Passat with a little more equipment.

    I can't believe the dealer tried to stick you with their $499 processing fee. Didn't you pay that at lease inception?

    On the VW front, Jack Daniels VW in Northern, NJ shows over 40 2013 VWs in stock and on their website. The prices don't look that great, unless those are just to get you into the showroom. With prices on 2014s so low already, how much cheaper would a 2013 have to be?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • breldbreld Posts: 5,460

    @tifighter said:
    breld Congrats on the 'conversion .' You always hear that leasing a car you intend to buy is a bad idea, but you seem to made the incentives work in your favor. Of course, now that the lease is gone, it's easier to trade... B)

    Won't deny that's part of the incentive. :)

    2018 X3 M40i - 2020 Supra - 2020 MINI JCW Hardtop - 2020 Leaf

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 12,707

    breld...nice job. Good deal!

    2019 Kia Stinger GT2
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