Porsche 911

pathdoc

Last night I attended my local Porsche dealer's presentation of the new 997's. The dealer invited the local PCA club as well as other potential buyers.
While I am impressed with the new models(Carerra and Carrera S) I am concerned that there is NO spare tire. There is only a pump and can of "flat fixer". The sales pitch is that a survey of owners in LA yielded only 4% that had used their spares. The tires are NOT run flats meaning that most likely you will have to be flatbeded in for replacement. If you happen to be in a deserted area with no cell phone serice this could be a major issue. Anyone else concerned?

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't be. My Porsche has one of those silly mini-spares that is stored deflated---and they give you a little pump for it---isn't that nice?

The scenario you mention is very unlikely. Look at it in terms of risk management.

If indeed 4% of all 997 drivers will need a spare someday, how many of those will find the fix-it aerosol successful? Probably 95% will find that the hole in their tire is small enough to respond to the gummy stuff.

So that leave 5% of the original 4%. Of THAT number, how many will find themselves on a road with no cell phone service and no one passing by to help them? Probably 1% of that 5% of the 4% of all 997 drivers.

Given the likely sales of 997s, you'd have to be pretty unlucky to get stranded by this system. Surely there are more plausible risks that can be addressed. Yes you could hit a deer or have your car catch fire, etc. etc., but few people worry about this, and the possibility of having a grevious tire failure that can't be pumped up and this happening on an isolated road are even more remote than deer collisions and engine fires I think.

Your 997 has to be flatbedded for just about ANY problem that stops the car, so that's not unusual.

Kirstie_H

If it's a HUGE concern, couldn't you add a service like OnStar? May not be feasible, but just a thought.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

porschedaddy

Porsche as introduced OffStar .... a service comparable to GM's ................

pathdoc

I'm sorry but If you really use the car for touring it is unacceptable not to have a spare. If I am in a remote are between Palm Springs and Las Vegas(or up North on CA1) the cell doesn't work I would not want to depend on "someone passing by".In a recent "Automobile" article reviewing the 997 they had the same problem. They had a flat on their trip through Europe and were delayed while they waited for roadside assistance. It went something like "I opened the trunk and had a sinking feeling when I saw that there was no spare". There are too mant competitors in the market to stretch practicallity to this extent for the "Porsche experience". Corvette and BMW have run flats as well as Lexus and I believe Aston Martin.

kyfdx

I'm not saying Porsche shouldn't have a spare.. but, I wouldn't want the solution to be runflats.. They leave a lot to be desired. They can ruin the ride of a decent car.

Mr_Shiftright

High speed touring in a powerful sports coupe has all kinds of risks associated with it, the least of which is a flat tire I think. You know, it happens, deal with it. You can't expect a car company to cover all your bases in every contigency. All vehicles make design compromises of one sort or another. Run flats is also a compromise that is no less distasteful than no spare, either in terms of ride or expense. Ask a Lexus SC430 owner, who is the very antithesis of a Porsche owner anyway.

pathdoc

I currently have a Jag XKR which has a standard spare. Since I have a couple of older Porsches I was thinking of a new 997 to replace the Jag next year. Since I do take the car on extended trips I really want a spare. I am now going to check out the SL500. Although I haven't driven a car with run flats I find it hard to believe that the Corvette and 645i BMW give up much in handling/ride .

kyfdx

Believe it.. runflats suck! I'm surprised that Porsche (and Lexus, BMW, etc) don't offer the option of the little doughnut tire.. There is plenty of room for it, in almost any car.. Just for emergency purposes..

Not having a spare won't keep me from buying a car, but until runflats get a lot better, I'll avoid any car that has them (which is getting harder to do).

regards,
kyfdx

pathdoc

A doughnut tire I could accept. It is interesting that my older Porsches (70 914-6& 78 911 SC targa both have full sized tires. Progress?

sphinx99

Progress has many definitions.

There should be a doughnut, at the minimum. Other premier sports cars have managed this accomplishment (Porsche 911 included) for many decades without adversely affecting handling or performance. As for the argument that sports cars come with risk, well, that may be the case if we were talking about a stripped Lotus Elise here. But we're not, we're talking about the 911 which is as chock full of features and luxury amenities as many a top-tier sports car today. This makes the omission more notable.

They should include a standard satallite phone

Mr_Shiftright

It's these big fat tires they are putting on cars today. they certainly wouldn't fit in an old 911 either, so what can you do?

kyfdx

Well..that is true.. my '84 911 had whopping 225/50-16 on the rear.. That is on every wannabe economy car now..

But, they could make a full-diameter doughnut.. It would be the same height as the stock tire, but still skinny.. That should fit easily, as the new 17" and 18" tires aren't any taller.. just fatter.

regards,
kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright

I'd have to look the car over to say anything more about it, but it could be that a doughnut is actually impossible with the current design. In other words, the spare tire was consciously designed out from the get-go. Maybe you could lie it flat in there and lock it with a center bolt but ....goodbye trunk space.

It's kind of a non-issue for me. I haven't had a flat tire in ten years. (uh-oh, I shouldn't have said that...damn!)

kyfdx

I wouldn't say it is a non-issue with me.. But, I'd take my chances with fix-a-flat and AAA, rather than have run-flats. (not that I'm buying a 911, unfortunately).

Mr_Shiftright

The 928 solution with the inflatable mini tire and air compressor that plugs into the cigarette lighter was a decent solution---but they still had to make a well in the trunk floor, and also one for the battery, which means they had to move the exhaust system around, which means they had to put a big butt on the car.

gd10102

The issue of no spare in itself is an interesting topic. I took delivery of my 997 on September 14 and thought about no spare for about a split second. However, I live in Florida and don't have the blind spots for cell coverage as some of you do in the desert. The car's performance and overall package significantly outweighed the lack of a spare (although, I admit, I wish there was one). I measured this again a 645 and an SL500 and chose the 997. I have been driving German now for 10 years and this is my first Porsche....and it will not be my last. I love it. I recommend getting your hands on one if you can.

Mr_Shiftright

I should be so lucky to have a new one!

Kirstie_H

A reporter is wondering if anyone has had trouble getting parts for cars and trucks from the 1985-1997 model year. If you have a story to share, please send it to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, November 19, 2004.

Mr_Shiftright

Not any trouble for Porsches, if that's what the reporter is looking for---a dead end story for this particular marque. Parts availability for older Porsches is outstanding.

Kirstie_H

so maybe reporting that parts ARE readily available for Porsches would also be of interest.

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, well then.....

mdstevelee

I need some opinions. Would u buy a used 2003 turbo with 13K miles or spend the same relative amount of money on a brand new 2005 Carrera S?

stevec1

stevec1

Is it just me or does anyone else think the C4S is a better looking car than the new 997 - especially in Cabriolet form. I drove the new Carrera S and was impressed but to me it doesn't looks like a $90,000 plus car.

mdstevelee

Well, the C4S Cabriolet looks like a Turbo Cabriolet.... sure looks better than a 997.

tlcman

I have one and I love it, Ever since i was a kid I had a deam of owning one. I finaly took out a lease on a 2003 C4S. I couldnt be more happy. I was a little let down at the quality plastics used but then again thought about what a porsche is. Running this baby out to the redline is a pleasure everytime. And the sound that it gives off from ever gear. Whats not to love. Some may complain about the rough ride. But thats what a sports car is folks, rough ride and increadible cornering ability. It seems like every time I go to fill it up some one always coments "thats a lovly car there sir" its great to have the Turbo body as I was not a fan of the regular body. Love the Hips on the C4S... And well I love German cars... maybe its my german blood

wwest

Watch the tire pressure warning very closely.

tlcman

In my car? No theres a funky spare in the front with a tyre pump. I wish they did that with the 997. I like the look but Im too attached to my C4S

tomtomtom

Ok, if they were able to provide you a space just enough for a skinny spare tire. Where are you going to put your big fat flat tire after you took it off?

stevec1

Good question.

You carry in the storage area a large plastic garbage bag. You take the big tire and put it in then leave your wife where ever you are and put the tire in the passengers seat. When it comes to a Porsche, life has it's priorities.

tomtomtom

I've never purchased a Porsche before but I am considering the new Carrera sometime next year. Do you guys do any negotiation with Porsche dealer while buying new? Or they are pretty much stick with the the MSRP. Also, I probably will have to order one as most of the dealers around my area (Northern California) have only gray/ silver color in their inventories. Thanks in advance.

ced3

NEW!!good site http://porsche.passion.free.fr

Mr_Shiftright

good site if you speak French anyway.

96redlt4

Interested in one of these as a first time porsche buyer. Any comments on reliability, buying a used trbo etc.

tomtomtom

This is a slow forum, I am still waiting for my answer

speeds2much

During the height of the internet bubble (i.e., late 90s) Porsche dealers played hardball and negotiated little. Late in 996 product cycle (2002-2004), I heard stories of discounts as high as 10-15K on 996s. The 997 is a new model and the stocks were strong in 2004, so discounts (if any) have run around 2-3K.

 

It depends. My guess is that 2006 997s will carry a 5-10% discount, especially with the Boxster S coupe available as a cheaper alternative.

96redlt4

Hi TTT,

I went through the same conundrum over the last few mths and finally oredered a 997 optioned the way I want. The trbos at least here in CA are so expensive, and you just have trouble knowing how it has been broken in, taken care of etc.

tomtomtom

Were you able to get any $ off the MSRP when you ordered the 997 Carrera S? What's your purchase price?

glassman

I just ordered a 2005 911 cab in northern california. There's a waiting list for the new 997's. There was absolutely no negotiating, but I got to build it as I wanted. Only discounts I've seen is to buy a new 2004 on e-bay. good luck.............glassman

tomtomtom

Thanks.

I saw an add from Claridge, I think they're offering 10% off on all '04 "leftovers".

What color did you pick for your cab?

butler1

Buy the new car and spend the money to pick it up in Germany. A Turbo is great, but new is better

96redlt4

Nothing off MSRP! I think I'm nuts-first time I've ever paid sticker for a car. I think 86.9K is the preliminary tally for a March build date. They acted like I was lucky to get this.

96redlt4

Anyone have any idea how many miles should be on a 'new' porsche when it leaves the factory. Every new model I saw had 100 + miles on the odometer.
This may seem rediculous, but when you are paying 100K for a new car... I know when I bought my 01 corvette there were 4 miles on the odometer, and there was no test driving until you bought it.

milsuperdoc

Anywhere between 25 to less than 40 miles.

tomtomtom

Thanks.

I am talking to a friend in Oregon to see I can use his address to at least avoid the sales tax.

glassman

TTT, sorry for the 4 day delay. Seal gray/black interior/ black top.

endoman

Just got the 997 and am posting my first message.I live in the northermost part of NY so have not been able to drive it.I waited 3 months.it had 10 miles on it.Cant wait to drive it.

porscheguy1

If have a 05 997 that listed for $82,222.00. I paid 75K

porscheguy1

I live in NH and got mine in early Feb. Drove it anyway - only on cold days when nothing was melting

porscheguy1

If I bought a used turbo, i would make sure i bought it from a porsche dealer and it had an extended warranty. As for the 997S, I drove the S and the standard Carrera. I ended up buying the standard Carrera w/19" wheels and PASM. To be honest, unless your driving these cars at 10/10ths, you will be hard pressed to tell the difference. If your gonna get an S, order it without all crap the dealers put in them. every S I saw had 8-10K worth of "options". Believe me, a base one has plenty in it already. And sadly, when you go to sell it later, you won't get 10 cents on the dollar for all the superflous options. In fact, I'll bet a 2-3 year old S won't be worth much more than a standard Carrera. People won't pay $10,000 for 30 HP.