Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

texases

No problem getting nitrogen, even back then it was widely used to stop oxidation - put in cans of Crisco, Folgers, etc.

british_rover

That is what I thought. I wasn't sure they seeing as 1957 is about 25 years before my time.

Mr_Shiftright

I think the whole idea of time capsules is that you are supposed to dig them up. And really, that concept of unearthing a treasure + old cars doesn't really go together. Old cars need creaky old barn doors and cobwebs, not 20 tons of dirt on top of them.

texases

True, especially where '57 Plymouths are concerned My dad found a 1911 Regal in a barn in '58, we enjoyed that car for 30 years.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm still finding cars in garages and outback buildings...it's really fun....and while most are worthless, now and then there's something definitely worth saving. It's incredible the amount of junk people are sitting on, waiting for "the day" that never came.

au1994

Oooh, barn finds!! Do we not all harbour that dream of one day finding a forgotten XXX in a barn and buying it for pennies on tha dollar?

I always keep an eye out when I'm cruising the back roads, just in case.

Mr_Shiftright

Usually the cars are so messed up that even if you got them for free, you'd never make out. So it would be more a matter of finding something you always wanted, rather than it being "a deal".

The restoration equation has changed a lot in the past ten years, especially where I live. Labor rates are very high, storage space is dear. I found a '36 LaSalle coupe not too long ago, all intact, needing complete restoration. But really a person would be much better off just going out an buying one already done. So that Lasalle is both worthless and worth restoring. Quite a dilemma.

So unless it's a Bugatti or something, chances are the "find" is more like a non-profit hobby....which is okay.

texases

That Regal was in a remarkable state-new tires of course, but we sat on the original leather, and the motor required very little. My dad is an engineer, but no restoration specialist.

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's a simple car, and those old-timers used the very best quality materials as well. You won't find leather like that in a Rolls Royce today. And brass and nickel? forget it!
You could take that car apart with a pipe wrench!

texases

Yes, I tried!

Mr_Shiftright

I love old brass era cars. They're really a bargain for what you get---but of course their use is limited. I am amazed though how reliable they can be. People knew a lot in 1911 and they were certainly craftsmen. Even the humble cars have a certain charm about them.

andre1969

here are some pics of a 1967 Ford Galaxie that's been abandoned in my neighborhood for as long as I can remember. I think the first time my friends and I stumbled upon it was 1981 or so. I took these pics in early 2006.

three-quarter shot
front shot
rear quarter panel

Now the car has been beat up on for decades, and is obviously beyond any hope of salvage. Still, I'm impressed at how well it's held up, rust-wise. If it had just been parked there, and not subsequently trashed over the years, I wonder what kind of condition it would be in today? I'm especially impressed at how rust-free it is. Except for bullet holes, dents, and the tops of the fenders, and probably that area on the roof that's smashed in and collecting leaves, the poor old beast is remarkably solid.

Oh, I do know where there's a '58 Plymouth 4-door hardtop, in the woods near the Amtrak line. I don't know how long it's actually been back there, but I'd probably been noticing it for about 15 years or so. It was only really evident in the wintertime, at certain times of the day, when sunlight would reflect off of it and catch my attention. I never even knew what kind of car it was until a few years ago, I stopped and walked back in there. I'll have to go back and take some pics sometime. Sadly, but not surprisingly, it was nowhere near as rust-free as this '67 Ford.

qbrozen

If you really want to stoke the fire under that dream, I suggest reading Cobra in the Barn. Its a collection of short stories about barn finds. Its a fun read.

texases

Here's what it looked like (this is a 1909, but same otherwise):

au1994

One of my favorite stories!!

au1994

Cool pics. Wonder how it got there??

au1994

yeah, I know. I'd like to find something and get it back to "driver" status. Even that would be risking depending on what you are starting with.

andre1969

Well, back in the day, there was a farm where this car currently sits, and it was parked beside a barn. By the time us kids stumbled across it, the farm was abandoned, and returning to nature. The county started doing some clearing for a new 4-lane road that was going through, and its path was going to take out the farmhouse and a second barn, which had an old dark blue, dust-covered Mercedes fintail in it.

The fire department practiced on the house, and the barn with the fintail got knocked down. I don't know what happened to the fintail, though. A portion of the site was purchased by the fire department around 1989 or so, to build a new station, and the barn was finally knocked down. I remember there was an early 70's Mercury Montego in the barn, but I don't know what happened to it. It was all beat-up though, and the roof had been cut off. The old '67 Galaxie stayed, though, and the area that the fire department didn't use for their station and parking lot continued to return to nature.

At some point though, an early 70's Camaro, a '73-74 Nova, and a '71-72 or so Plymouth Satellite ended up back in the woods. Probably before the fields had grown up too much. An '82-83 Cavalier also ended up down the hill behind the fire department.

Here's the rest of the pics that I took on that little excursion through the woods.

fintail

And that's not a humble car at all. Looks very fun

I too would like to 'discover' a brass car, or a large prewar Mercedes.

Snooping around as a child with my father, we happened upon several old cars rotting away in local garages. The one I remember most was a center-door Model T. In grade school my best friend's grandparents had a gigantic early 1920s Cadillac called a 'Suburban' I believe languishing in their garage. I remember the ancient woolcloth upholstery was deteriorating. I also remember spotting a '49 Mercury wagon rotting away behind a house on my way to school every day. This was back in the mid 1980s, btw.

fintail

Elegant beater

Or spend a little more and get a really pretty one

Somewhat like the Oklahoma car, or Christine

Mr_Shiftright

You can have a lot of fun with an old Model T. They are cheap to buy and easy to restore and you can get all the parts you need for it. A T Speedster would be most excellent fun.

lemko

...when my parents moved into their house, the guy next door had a 1936 Auburn Speedster in his garage. I remember there was a dark blue 1953 DeSoto Firedome LWB sedan in a garage in my old neighborhood as well as a dark green 1953 Pontiac Chieftain sedan. I see a 1957 Chevrolet four-door hardtop in a garage on my way to work. It is finished in gray primer, has Ralleye wheels and is covered with junk. Looks like somebody's long aborted street rod project.

fintail

Depreciation

fintail

Period colors

lilengineerboy

I hope this one goes too high, or that I get common sense, or something before I end up with yard art.
Sad Alfa

210delray

I like it, including the color combo! Watch your knee on that "dogleg" A-pillar though; that's why wraparound windshields went away.

urnews

Great color combo. Sweet-looking machine.

Mr_Shiftright

Rust looks pretty bad on that Alfa--it's a big job.

59 Ford--hideous looking car I think. Can't get much worse for styling. I used to like that color on a '54 2D.

gsemike

Beautiful but he'll never get 20 for it

I don't think that the appreciation on these cars makes this one worthwhile

"Sometimes the transmission is a l'il tricky" I guess this is OK for the money but what does that mean? Either way, Brooklyn cars get beat to heck

Needs very little plus paint This is probably pretty good for someone but how about cleaning it up for the pics

Weird way to sell a car

Mr_Shiftright

'79 Lincoln Pimpmobile: great condition but who wants them? Ask $8,500, take $5,000 if you have to. Currently priced about 3X to 4X over retail--not good.

68 GTO--priced about double what it is worth. You can buy these restored for $30K so do the math. It's not a ragtop and it's not a RamAir, it's just a common run of the mill GTO. Too much time in front of the B-J television auction.

'71 Mustang -- might be worth it, hard to say. You can buy very nice ones for $15,000, so the math doesn't look so good and the appreciation has been slow. But these last "fat" Mustangs will continue to grow in value, so may for a hobbyist this could turn out okay in the lonnngggg run.

urnews

59 Ford--hideous looking car I think. Can't get much worse for styling.

We will just have to disagree, agreeably, about that Mr. Shiftright. Beginning with the 1952, Ford went with round taillights, departed from the theme with the '58 (two oval pods), returned with a round taillight in 1959, broke with tradition again in 1960-62, returned with round in 1963-64, etc.

The 1959 had an especially nice design, in my book, even though I never owned one (I was driving a 1952 Studebaker at the time of introduction, in the fall of 1958). My mother had a 1958 Skyliner steel-top convertible (which she never really liked) when the 1959s make their debut. She would later trade it for a 1962 Pontiac Catalina, a very nice buggy.

Enough of the trip down memory lane: The 1959 Ford was a special model and certainly not hideous by any shape of the imagination, IMHO.

urnews

Watch your knee on that "dogleg" A-pillar though; that's why wraparound windshields went away.

Your comment brought back some memories of painful entries and exits associated with a 1957 Cadillac and mom's 1958 Ford Skyliner, the steel-top convertible model.

fintail

Didn't the '59 Ford win some kind of international award for being a good design?

Of course at this time, fintails were seen as understated and elegant, and the '59 Caddy seemed like a great idea to many, so it is all relative.

I will say I like the '59 Ford more than the '59 Chevy. The batwing has always been a turn-off for me.

urnews

Of course at this time, fintails were seen as understated and elegant, and the '59 Caddy seemed like a great idea to many, so it is all relative.

The thing about the 1959 Cadillac was it was so over the top, so excessive, that it epitomized an era, a subjective state of mind, and is therefore gorgeous to the eyes of some beholders.

The Eisenhower era years were indeed "Glory Days" for a great many Americans and the 1955-1959 cars from all manufacturers were like no others in history, admire them or not.

A '59 Caddy is never mistaken for anything else, unlike so many of today's Asian cars, including the luxury brands.

Every time I see a '59 Cadillac I am instantly reminded of the carefree days of my teenage years and what a fun time it was.

Older Americans probably experience the same emotions when they see a Model T ("Tin Lizzy") or maybe a 1932 Ford Coupe (a "Deuce").

I simply cannot imagine anyone waxing nostalgically about a 2000 Toyota although I'm reasonably certain someone will.

andre1969

I think they're good looking from the front. Kind of boxy and conservative, but still good looking and a bit upscale. The only part about them that really turns me off is the rear. The way the fins stick out and try to incorporate the backup lights, above the big round taillights, it kind of looks like two car styles got stuck together. And worse, since the car gets wider at the top, where the fins are, coupled with the relatively narrow track that cars had of that time, it really makes the car look top-heavy and tipsy when viewed from the rear.

If forced to choose between a '59 Chevy, Plymouth, or Ford, it would really be a hard call for me, as I find them all pretty ugly. I think the '59 Chevy is the most modern looking of the three, but that batwing rear is kind of hard to live down. And that heavyhanded style up front, that also has a slight suggestion of batwing, above the headlights, just seems to work better on the Chevy trucks of the period than on their cars. But then I think a '59 Plymouth is pretty garish up front, as well. The overall body shape isn't bad, although it's just a facelift of the gorgeous '57-58, which was starting to look dated by '59.

And then the Ford, I just don't like that rear-end.

Maybe I'd just buy a '59 Pontiac or DeSoto, and call it a day. I think those two were okay looking, as far as 1959 cars go. I kinda like the '59 Oldsmobile, too. And I think the '59 Mercury looks nice up front, but was just marred by clunky rooflines and half-baked fins.

Mr_Shiftright

We all know 1958 was the Year of Horrors for the American auto industry (with a few exceptions) but there was no excuse to repeat the mistake--and yet, most automakers DID repeat it with strange 1959 designs. The '59 Ford was particularly ghastly, maybe worse than the '58. In my book, it's one of the ugliest post-war American cars ever made. Easily in the top 10 at any rate. Right up there with the Edsel, the Marlin, the '59 Cadillac and the '58 Olds and Buick. Heavy, blocky, clumsy, chaotic...there's not a good line on the car anywhere. I hope I never have to look at one in real life.

andre1969

Actually, the '59 Ford was popular enough to oust Chevy from the #1 spot, something that they wouldn't do again until maybe once or twice in the '70's, and then on a yearly basis from like 1987 onward.

A lot of people liked them because of that upright, formal styling, which vaguely conjured up images of the Thunderbird.

Personally, my favorite Ford from that era is the 1958...except for the taillights, which looked like a colon on its side. The puncutation mark, not the thing that some people like to get irrigated. I think if you took a '58 Ford and put '57 Ford taillights on it, the end result would be a pretty nice car. Most people hate the '58 Ford, I know, but I think it's rather attractive from the front. The fake hood scoop is a bit over the top, but otherwise I think it looks a bit Chrysler/DeSoto-ish, with the way the front wheel opening swoops forward to the grille.

andre1969

I hope I never have to look at one in real life.

Well, I got to see this gem in person at the Carlisle PA Ford Nationals a few weeks ago, and my eyesight survived unharmed. I think. I have been getting these headaches lately though and have been having problems focusing on printed text. :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

GEEZ---look at that mess! LOL! There are EIGHT bulls-eye designs on the front area alone! Stop, please, we get the point. Stop drawing circles! At least the windshield isn't a circle. And could we make the grill any heavier? It looks like a sewer grate.

Well now if a '59 Ford outsold a '59 Chevy then it's just one hideous car outselling another. Besides, they didn't outsell them in the SEXY cars, only the bread and butter base models.

Anyway, if all the poor American car buyer had to pick from is hideous cars, then what is proven by sales results? No wonder Americans revolted against these Frankensteins and starting buying VWs.

To me, the '59 Fords are devoid of sex, power or rock and roll! I just can't imagine how anyone could successfully explain away all the grievous design faults that are taught in design 101. They should have been fired. Maybe they were?

210delray

Probably a lot of designers were canned then! Look at the '61s from GM and Ford -- much easier on the eyes! But at Chrysler, things were still chaotic. Plymouth: shield your eyes! Dodge: hide the children! Imperial: for the Rat Pack crowd in Vegas! Chrysler: still with gigantic fins? DeSoto: just about DOA!

Andre, about the '59s, probably the best looking of the Big 3 was the Pontiac, with the wide track look and no garish fins. I wouldn't pick the Mopars: they turned them into a mish-mash of the "interesting" 57s and 58s!

andre1969

Andre, about the '59s, probably the best looking of the Big 3 was the Pontiac, with the wide track look and no garish fins. I wouldn't pick the Mopars: they turned them into a mish-mash of the "interesting" 57s and 58s!


Yeah, but for some reason, the '59 DeSoto still appeals to me. It's heavy-handed compared to the '57-58, but I think it's still pretty good looking. The '59 Chryslers just look boring, somehow, while the '59 Plymouth has that garish front end with the frenched fenders that I find pretty gruesome. And the Dodge, with those sculpted "eyebrows", is just way too overdone.

I always looked at Chrysler as being on top of its game, style-wise, from 1955-1958. 1955 was the year it started to give GM some competition for style, and in '57 it was generally considered the winner, by a long shot (back then, at least, nowadays people look at things differently and everybody just remembers how lovely the '57 Chevy was). But by 1959, GM was pretty much the styling leader again, although considering what came out in '59, that's not saying much! Chrysler really started to fall behind the times again. In fact, Chrysler got far enough behind that I considered 1961 to be Chrysler's "1959"!

When I see how gorgeous a '61 Chevy is, and how even a '61 Ford is pretty easy on the eye, I wonder why anyone at all bought a '61 Plymouth?

gsemike

Is this too much?

Hard to tell by the pics but this is probably gone

Probably just a $500 station car Just what does he mean "no leaks for being 30 years old"? Does it leak or doesn't it?

Given the market for Chevelles around here, this is probably decent If this was a 4 speed, I'd love it. This couldn't have had a split bench from the factory, right? The seller seems to be forthright.

Since when is 133k low miles for an 02? The price is OK enough, but this is almost 25k a year. I have an 03 with 42k.

Looks beat on but he'kll probably get 3 grand These cars still have a real following

Looks nice but way too much invested in a 77 It is possible to restore a car too much.

Seriously, could this car be OK? There are worse looking econoboxes

Cheap family hauler

If you want to get out from under your lease, you've got to eat the downpayment Dimitry That's just the way it goes

210delray

'02 Altima: Don't you love it -- high miles (oops, I mean 133K LOW miles) are always HIGHWAY miles?

'04 Forenza: guy at work just sold his with an automatic and 46K miles for $5900, so the price seems reasonable. But who'd want a no-fun, no-name car with horrendous side crash test ratings? (And 2004s didn't have side airbags like the test car.)

andre1969

One thing I'll say for that 1980 Grand Prix, is that if it's the car of your dreams, it has the "right" engine. It's actually a 265, not a 295. Back then, the standard engine was a Buick 231 V-6, Pontiac 265 V-8, Pontiac 301 V-8 (some Chevy 305's might have ended up in there too) or the Olds Diesel.

Well, the Diesel doesn't need explaining. The Buick 231 and Pontiac 301 were famous for early self-destruction back then. They were ahead of their time for being lightweight engines, but too far ahead of their time, because the domestics didn't know how to make a durable lightweight engines yet. The Pontiac 265 was the same design as the 301, but was either de-stroked or de-bored, I forget which. And from the way I've heard it described, it didn't have enough power to hurt itself. :sick:

gsemike

"if it's the car of your dreams"

Enough said

qbrozen

Looks nice but way too much invested in a 77 It is possible to restore a car too much.

well, technically, its not restored. A '77 vette never came with 400 hp. Soo... its like a street rod... or something like that. It doesn't seem bad for getting basically a new vette. But you gotta find someone who loves that style and who loves that color. That's what makes it tough.

GSR - oh yeah, he'll get that for it.

wrecked bimmer - its got 160k miles, so $3k might be ok if it WASN'T wrecked.

leased bimmer - ummm... let's see... he got a 10k mile/yr lease and has used up 8k in just 5 months. yeah, someone needs a lesson in how to use a calculator BEFORE signing on the dotted line.

Mr_Shiftright

You forgot the part about how awful it is to drive a '77 Corvette....the new ones are like...a galaxy ahead in sophistication. This '77 is a car you could get real tired of real fast.

Leases--oh man, how many people fall prey to what seems like easy monthly payments that really aren't.

fintail

Not so much the greatest deal, but kind of interesting photos

urnews

How in the world could a 1955 VW Beetle possibly be worth $9,000? What is the market price for this 28-horsepower machine? Brand new it cost about $1,200 or so.

jlflemmons

Funny, I have heard from several sources that these engines were not strong, but I personally have owned a '75 and '87, and have worked on many others. I have seen these things with >100K and running strong, even when the maintenance was minimal. The old "staggerfire" version was a rough running, low RPM beast but had low end torque that put it in the tractor catagory. They didn't breathe above 4500, but down low had good power behind a 4 speed.

And the '87 "evenfire" with SFI developed a conservative 150HP and would wind up to 5500RPM. Nice little engine that could push a Cutlass Cierra to 75mph all day and still go better than 30mpg with the A/C on.

Maybe I just got some good ones?