Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

I am leery of that car's legitimacy...I am sure "Coca Cola Red" was not an original color.

So real Camaro SS 396 are worth 40K if well done? Wow

gsemike

Factory big block cars are golden. A big block convertible is outta sight.

Mr_Shiftright

A legit 396 convertible w 325 hp could bring $45K, and a legit 396 with 375 hp could bring $60K and maybe $70K for a '68 model.

But we are talking stand-up, no questions, no problems, fully documented to the max, impeccably correct automobiles. What you commonly see for sale are not cars that meet this criteria.

xwesx

That's the grey-est car I have ever seen. :sick:

fintail

Would those high Camaro prices be for some #1 condition car?

This looks like a decent deal

lemmer

I like that Fiat. I wish he would have provided some engine pictures and information.

lemmer

Cheap MR2 - a ton of fun for $1100. Why bother changing the timing belt or doing anything else for that matter? A timing belt/water pump service and other miscellaneous could cost as much as the car. Great pizza delivery car until it dies.

qbrozen

I saw this at the dealer yesterday when I was in for service. Thought it pretty odd to see something like this at a franchised dealer.
Anyway, found it on the web ... price seems really high. What is something like this worth? considering the dealer, I would think its in very nice shape, as the pics seem to indicate.
'79 Mark V

andre1969

does look like a nice car. I'd be curious to see what the color looks like in person, because it looks like it changes hues depending on how the sun hits it. And the blue on the interior is a bit loud for my tastes.

My sense of price on these things is warped, because I have a friend who obesses over them and owns two of them. He'll find low-mileage examples of fully-loaded Diamond Jubilee models (supposedly the one to get if you're going to have a Mark V) where the seller wants $20K or more.

If I were to take a wild guess, I'd say maybe $3500-4000, if it's not hiding anything scary. My friend's two Marks both have the 460, which put out around 210 hp IIRC. And one of them was beefed up a bit when the engine was rebuilt, so it might put out more than that. The 400-2bbl was only good for around 166 hp, so I'd imagine that performance for the '79 would be "dignified" at best. But then, you don't buy these old boats to drag race!

stickguy

that one I would scap up if I saw it by me, assuming it really isnt't rusty, and the engine is sound/strong as described. The rest of the stuff i could either do myself, live with, or have done. Would like to know what the problem with the brakes is, since I guess that could get pricey.

But, if the bones are sound, you could probably end up with a decent car that would last a while for about 2K, and have some fun to boot.

Mr_Shiftright

You are exactly right Andre, about $3,500--$4,000 would be all the money in the world and then some for a Mark V. Asking prices are merely Americans exercising their First Amendment Rights.

qbrozen

Ok, so i wasn't TOO far off thinking $4500 wouldn't be out of line. I gotta wonder what they gave the previous owner for it.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: Camaro---yes, those high prices are for fully restored but perhaps not Pebble Beach cars. Low #1 in other words. True #1s, which are by definition never, ever driven except as required by car shows to drive up a ramp on its own power, have no solid price guide data because most are traded privately. We are talking #1 as a fanatical level of restoration beyond human reason...that is, things like NOS factory bolt heads, fully restored glovebox interiors with chromed lock strikers, matching #s on steering boxes and waxed, powder-coated chasssis rails. Every single part restored or new, down to the last paper clip.

fintail

I can't imagine that Camaro even being a low #1. I am just surprised at those prices....10 years ago they sure were cheaper! That would have been the time to get in. I still remember going to a local car show in 1995, where someone had a 68 Chevelle SS 396 4 speed convertible, very nice original car, everything matching. They wanted like 11K for it.

That Edsel I found has me thinking...but that's the last thing I need. I'm a sucker for wide whites I guess. The fintail will get a set when the current tires rot/wear out.

Mr_Shiftright

The Edsel, if clean and straight, is a bit underpriced it seems. But it's a hard car to re-sell to anybody. If you buy it, you'll probably take it to your grave or you'll have to sell at the right price.

CAMARO: --- well keep in mind that it's only the documented big blocks. Any ratty, mis-engined Camaro is worth little more than it was years ago.

andre1969

I kinda like that Edsel too, for the price. It certainly looks nice. I imagine those black vinyl seats are not stock, but that's relatively minor...I could live with it.

In searching around on the net, I found out that the Edsel 361 was a 100-degree V-8 instead of the usual 90-degree. Any advantage to having that?

fintail

This is an oddball, not the most exciting car though

andre1969

I always liked that style of Torino, although it would definitely look better without the vinyl top. Looks like it's in nice shape, and the price doesn't seem too evil. Wonder if I should email the seller? :shades:

lemko

That Torino is a 1971 model not a 1970. My Dad had a '70 and his friend a '71. The '70 Torino has a non-divided grille with a round emblem in the center. The '70 Fairlane and Falcon had a non-divided convex grille with a slim horizontal strip of brightwork.

lemmer

I am a sucker for a nice FrankenDatsun. I have no idea what one is worth, though.

british_rover

I have no idea what that is worth either but who would want an automatic Datsun or Corvette for that matter ugh.

omarman

The good news:

I turn heads EVERYWHERE I go in it, and while it seems like this car needs a lot of work, the mechanical side of the car is solid with very few things left that need done.

The bad news?

Mr_Shiftright

I hope that Datsun has the brakes and suspension to match the level of horsepower he crammed in there, especially with an automatic transmission.

The bad news on the Buick Skylark? Maybe he would take a Harley in trade. :P

ghulet

I like the color, looks to be in nice condition in and out, the price is pretty harmless. That said, I know these are universally unloved, even with the turbo, and probably will never be worth much more. What's the HP rating on these, anyway?:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/111512230.html

lemmer

There is a small cult of followers for these, but I don't know why. They are lucky to keep up with an '83 944 in a straight line, and they have a far more more coarse and peaky power delivery. The turbos don't last long and they stress a generally crappy engine. They don't have the cool fender flares of the 944 and people generally want just as much money for them.

That being said this car seems cheaper than most of what I see on eBay. It is definitely a "drive it until something breaks" kind of car.

lemmer

Looks like a "No" on that.

"The suspension is factory and is great shape. Brakes are new disk / drum."

lemmer

Does a replica get old enough that someone thinks that it is worth something a classic? Maybe that is what happened here.

This old Chevelle is so excellent they say it in the title and description. Funny though - it doesn't look so excellent.

I've never heard of a Cadillac Calais, but here is one. Groovy interior.

Mr_Shiftright

Datsun/Corvette -- Death trap, in that case.

Porsche 924 Turbo --- nah, you don't want that car. The 924S is a much better buy, as you get the entire 944 powertrain in the S. So essentially, you get a 944 for 1/2 the price if you buy a 924S (but not the fender flares).

Mr_Shiftright

Replicas: Those Cord replicas are rather popular, and given the price of a REAL one, $15K for a nice kit car probably isn't too much to ask. Certainly it cost way more to build it. They don't look too bad on the outside but of course the interior is simply awful. At least it isn't gutless you can say that for it. Probably another death trap but oh well.

Chevelle: I'm always amazed to see these stupid people on eBay asking what the "reserve" is....

Calais: Oh, I thought it was the USS Nimitz in dry dock....

fintail

Well, at least the seller is honest

Mr_Shiftright

I've seen cars way worse than that restored but of course not rancheros. That baby is gone!

I read about a car restored after sitting at the bottom of a lake for 25 years, but it was a very valuable something or other hidden from the [non-permissible content removed] or the Russians or you know, one of the usual suspects---it was one of those great stories we used to read in Automobile Quarterly.

andre1969

was an entry level Caddy...I'd forgotten that they made it as recently as 1975! It really wasn't much cheaper than a DeVille, and as the focus in the 70's moved towards more and more luxurious cars, the Calais fell from favor. I think before it was called Calais it was just called "Series 62" or something like that. That material is a bit too groovy, even for my tastes, but I do like the way they also put it on the door panels. I'm sure it would wear much better than that padded vinyl that tried hard to look like leather, and actually looked nice when new, but would crack and peel very quickly.

andre1969

I kinda like it. I'd take it for $255! :P I wonder what engine it has in it? I'm guessing the 350...I don't think the 305 came out until '75-76, and I don't think the 307 was still around in '74.

Mr_Shiftright

It could have a 250, 350, 400 or 454.

lemmer

A bunch of cheap old cars. I will let you peruse on your own.

Mr_Shiftright

Phew---doesn't look like there's a damn thing worth saving in that pile of scrap metal....maybe the 53 Chevy Panel truck but it looks pretty rough. But all in all, just bombed out sedans and rusted old baseline coupes. Maybe that Wildcat would be okay, hard to say. I think they are all pretty rusty from the looks of the crop.

lemmer

Shifty, you've ratted yourself out!

"I got a price for an 2006 xA with XM radio, cargo mats, cargo tote, armrest, carpet mats, Indigo Blue with manual trans for out the door (includes 7.75 sales tax and all license fees) of $15, 255."

You are the project car hero, and you bought a new car? At least tell us what you did with the old car. When you get the time, maybe you can do a cost per mile on the 928.

andre1969

would that Cord replica most likely have been built on? Also, I'm guessing that most of the replicas are RWD? I couldn't imagine a 440 being mated to any kind of FWD transmission, unless it was a setup like the old Eldorado/Toronado, or those GMC and Revcon motorhomes (which used Toronado mechanicals, IIRC)

aggie1995

180,000 miles

mechanically sound

paint needs A LOT of work

Interior near perfect

What do you think?

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I still have a couple of other cars. You can't cure a car junkie, no way.

I used to keep 7 or 8 cars when I had the space in Colorado. Here in Sausalito with land about one million dollars a square inch, it's really hard to keep one's project cars close by. I have a few stashed but it's so hard to get to them.

New plan is to buy a small sports car like an MG Midget or a Spitfire, take the windshield off and sneak it into my office/studio at night. Then I'll build a table over it and put it on those wheel rollers.

I need a car no more than 55" wide (to get through the double doors of the office building) and I'd prefer about 12-13 feet long if possible. The building is a WWII type industrial space.

The 928 is still in use everyday. I have the catalytic off for "testing" at the moment. The car speaks V-8 thunder right now. I like to scare my friends in it.

I've ordered a bunch of stuff for the xA for handling and more HP---it'll be my commute/work car but one has to have a little fun. After the powertrain warranty is up, then we'll get a blower for it. I plan to turn it into a modern day version of a 1958 Alfa Sprint coupe....

You know, you gotta change as the world changes, or as ONE'S world changes at any rate.

Mr_Shiftright

Pleasant car to drive albeit pretty boring, but it can't be worth much so I trust you are bargaining hard on it. At 180K she could roll over and sink at any moment.

fintail

I am sure someone would jump at restoring a special Bugatti, Mercedes K, etc even if it had been at the bottom of a lake

I remember the Automobile Quarterly from when I was pretty young (the locak library subscribed to them and I always got the newest issues I could find) about a big hoard of prewar cars discovered in France, lots of Bugattis and other exotics. I remember I was astonished at the time.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh yeah those nutty brothers in Mulhouse (Alsace)...the Schlumpfs, wasn't it?

I've driven a Bugatti...what an eccentric car!

it's unbelievable the pain and effort some people have gone through to restore certain cars...it's like their life's work or something. Some restorations take ten years.

It must be a great letdown when it's all done, rather anti-climactic.

fintail

It wasn't the Schlumpfs - I have a book on the Schlumpfs, most of their cars are restored. This horde was found in the early 80s I believe, and these cars were untouched. To this day I remember some of the pics...there was a Bugatti Atlantic and a prewar Alfa race car, among a couple dozen other Bugattis and several other cars. They would only say the location was "somewhere in France". The cars were entombed in some old building.

I can't say I agree with the obsessive longterm restoration either. But I would never restore a car to the point of not wanting to drive it.

bumpy

It's basically an RWD Maxima. Go for it.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah that's the Schlumpfs. Their building was a long kept secret, nobody knew the cars were there. One day the authorities went in there and switched on the lights and almost fainted.

lemko

...a guy out west named Harold LeMay? I hear he has a collection of over 2,000 cars? Is Mr. LeMay still alive?

fintail

I am sure it wasn't the Schlumpfs. Their empire fell in the late 70s and their treasure chest was unearthed for all to see. Most of their cars were very well kept, as they devoted their industrial assets to their obsession. This thing I am thinking of was like in a dirt floored old barn, these cars hadn't been touched in decades, they were filthy. This would have been in the early-mid 80s. The sad state of the cars added to the fascination.

The Schlumpfs were interesting though. In the Schlumpf book I have (called "The Sclumpf Obsession", it documents how the brothers went around the world in the early 60s buying every Bugatti they could find, and at the time few cars brought more than a few grand. There was a US based collection they bought and had shipped to port on rail, there are pics of Bugatti filled rail car haulers.

LeMay is actually not far from me. The old man is gone I am pretty sure, but the collection exists. He's an interesting story...a self made local tycoon based on garbage hauling, who also became obsessed with cars. I'd probably be the same way with the right funds.

http://www.lemaymuseum.org/

Mr_Shiftright

No Mr Lemay died. Most of his cars were just total junkers left out in fields, but he did have some nice cars, too. I used to dream about getting the appraisal job on that collection----geez, I'd STILL be there doing it!

jrosasmc

When did you purchase the Scion? It sounds like you are going to have a lot of fun with it!

What do you make of this project I saw recently- '87 Audi 4000 CS Quattro, average paint, some rust, 170k miles, $950. It runs ok. Price right on?