Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's probably correct Andre.

    I knew a family that had a stripper 1966 Chevy II Station Wagon that they bought at year end close out.

    It may have been a bare bones wagon but it just happened to have a 300 HP 327 with a three speed stick.

    Talk about a sleeper!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,670
    That sounds like fun.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,593
    Here's a nicely colored 64 Impala Not a 409 or anything though.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's a nice Chevy! It even has AC and a tilt wheel.

    I am a bit surprised the original owner didn't step up and go with a 327 having bought all of those other options.

    I had that same car only it was dark blue with a 409 4 speed/400 HP.

    I didn't have it long before some guy walked up to me in a parking lot and offer me about a thousand more than I had paid. Done deal!
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,399
    Needs a lot more pics, especially of the interior, at that price.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,088
    In those days, would they let you get air conditioning on something like a full-sized Chevy, Ford, or Plymouth with just a 6-cyl, or would they have made you upgrade to a V-8?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    I'm thinking you had to get the V8, but I'm basing that on shaky memory and nothing more. ;)
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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I seem to recall seeing a 60's Impala with a six that had factory air.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,608

    That's a nice Chevy! It even has AC and a tilt wheel.

    I am a bit surprised the original owner didn't step up and go with a 327 having bought all of those other options.

    I had that same car only it was dark blue with a 409 4 speed/400 HP.

    I didn't have it long before some guy walked up to me in a parking lot and offer me about a thousand more than I had paid. Done deal!

    I'm surprised that they didn't go with the 327 as well. The fact is that the full-sized Chevy with a 283 and Powerglide was something of a dog.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,593
    Yeah, I think that Impala is a good 25%++ high. Claims to have original interior, without much detail shown. A cruiser rather than a racer.

    I am sure back in the 70s, a mint 409 car was worth like 2 grand.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    409 wasn't a very good motor--ran out of steam pretty early. But lots of low end grunt for digging out of the hole, as befits a truck engine.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    edited January 2015
    Back to that Chevelle--2,710 units (and I've seen that number before too)--crazy-low production numbers for a Chevy. Of course, in itself doesn't add to value but it means you won't see yourself at the local cruise. I mean, Studebaker built 2,414 1964 two-door hardtops as in my profile pic.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    Straining my brain some more, I am now fairly-sure I remember a kid in my boy scout troop who had moved up north to PA from AL or MS, and his Dad had a white '65 Biscayne two-door sedan that was definitely air-conditioned--even had a small bowtie sticker on the back window that said "AIR CONDITIONED" on it. I rode in the car once and I'm pretty sure it was a six.
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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,144
    I think (but don't know) that one could pretty much mix and match most options, a/c and engines included. Not like now...
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,088
    texases said:

    I think (but don't know) that one could pretty much mix and match most options, a/c and engines included. Not like now...

    Yeah, that's probably the case, as they weren't too worried about acceleration in those days, and what adding a/c might do to a car. I'm sure a full-sized 6-cyl, or even small V-8 car would be a bit strained with a/c, but that was also an era where some cars were still taking up to a half-minute to get to 60 mph!

    I think Pontiac might have omitted some of their taller axle ratios as options on a/c equipped cars. At first that might seem odd, considering a full-sized Pontiac came standard with a big 389 or 400 V-8. But, Pontiac also offered some really tall axle ratios in those days, so the added strain of the a/c would have hurt their power at highway speeds?

    My '67 Catalina has a 2.56:1 axle, and air conditioning, and a 2.56:1 is what I remember them usually having in the old CR low-end full-sized car tests where they'd pit a Catalina up against an Impala, Fury, and Galaxie. But there was also a 2.41:1 and even a 2.29:1 axle that were offered.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,399
    texases said:

    I think (but don't know) that one could pretty much mix and match most options, a/c and engines included. Not like now...

    When I got out of university in 1978 I interviewed for a job at GM Canada (which I didn't get). It was described to me as a liaison with dealers and reviewing their orders, so that "they don't order a pink car with a green interior". I imagine that would have turned into no fun before long.

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  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,608
    andre1969 said:

    texases said:

    I think (but don't know) that one could pretty much mix and match most options, a/c and engines included. Not like now...

    Yeah, that's probably the case, as they weren't too worried about acceleration in those days, and what adding a/c might do to a car. I'm sure a full-sized 6-cyl, or even small V-8 car would be a bit strained with a/c, but that was also an era where some cars were still taking up to a half-minute to get to 60 mph!
    In the day I read a question to Tom McCahill (IIRC) asking if one should turn off the A/C when quick acceleration was needed. The response was "only if you have a puny engine". I think that covers this situation.

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,878
    Have Barrett-Jackson on the telly. The Wheeler Dealers guys are there.
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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,399
    Unfortunately for me, almost none of the Barrett-Jackson week is available on TV in Canada now with the demise of Speed.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,670
    darn. I did nto know it was on. Not that my wife would let me change! I love those guys.

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  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 265,315
    ab348 said:

    Unfortunately for me, almost none of the Barrett-Jackson week is available on TV in Canada now with the demise of Speed.

    The auctions this week are on the Discovery network - Velocity channel, to be specific.

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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,399
    Which is not available in Canada.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    edited January 2015
    Re.: A/C on sixes?--My original hunch was that on GM's, you had to get a V8. The '70's is when I was about living at our local Chevy dealer, so that is what I must be remembering. Here, the '73 Chevelle brochure says that A/C was only available on V8's--with 100 hp in the six, that was probably a good idea.

    http://www.oldcarbrochures.org/NA/Chevrolet/1973_Chevrolet/1973-Chevrolet-Chevelle-Brochure/1973-Chevrolet-Chevelle-14-15

    Here's the '65 Chevy full-size brochure page with A/C--one of my very favorite cars, period--mentions no restriction on the six-cylinder. I was surprised to read further and see that a padded dash and two-speed wipers were still optional equipment. My '63 Lark had both standard.

    http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1965_Chevrolet/1965_Chevrolet_Full_Size_Brochure/1965 Chevrolet Full Size-18-19.html
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    Looking at the Chevelle brochure online, again, I was reminded that an inside hood release was a new feature for '73, and that you could only get 4-speeds on coupes...both mildly amusing to me. I still like the '73 Chevelles. Can't recall when I've last seen a very nice, original or authentically-restored one though.
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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,786

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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,144
    Thanks for the link. Saw a rerun of their first episode recently, even that one was a good watch.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,670
    I watched a little last night. Seems they have people from all the velocity shows wandering around. Saw Chris Jacobs from overhaulin, and christy lee from all girls garage.

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  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,425
    edited January 2015
    66 Caprice

    http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/4841609208.html

    283/powerglide but looks nice for the $$$

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,088

    Looking at the Chevelle brochure online, again, I was reminded that an inside hood release was a new feature for '73, and that you could only get 4-speeds on coupes...both mildly amusing to me. I still like the '73 Chevelles. Can't recall when I've last seen a very nice, original or authentically-restored one though.

    They must have de-contented in later years, because my '76 Grand LeMans has an external release. The handle is down in the opening in the bumper, between the turn signal and the license plate. Unless, Pontiac just did their own thing, compared to Chevy?

    As for other odd drivetrain combinations, for '76 you could get a 5-speed stick in a LeMans. But, only with the Olds 260 V-8. I wonder if it was a similar thing, where it was only offered in coupes?

    As for inside hood releases, did they used to be an option, once upon a time? Years ago, I saw a 1960 Dodge Dart sedan for sale, fairly strippo model with a slant six, and was surprised to see that it had an inside release! Yet, I've had newer and more prestigious old cars that still had an external release. I guess it's also possible that it was an aftermarket add on?

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,593
    I am pretty sure all of my dad's old Fords had external releases. Fintail has an internal one.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,670
    Not a bad looking Chevy. Pr ice seems fair. But I don't recall ever seeing an ad with pictures showing the same car wearing 4 different sets of wheels.

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    gsemike said:

    66 Caprice

    http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/4841609208.html

    283/powerglide but looks nice for the $$$

    "If you've seen one too many episodes of "Car Chasers", "Gas Monkey Garage" or similar and think that you're watching reality TV and you're going to the next player, you're probably wasting your time. He probably has a few funny stories"

    There was really nothing "wrong" with having a 283 in an Impala but when we used to pul up to a light next to one someone would usually make a comment about it "only" having a 283 and not a 327.

    Of course on those rare occasions when the emblem said "409" we were really impressed.

    The 195 HP 283 even when coupled to a Powerglide weren't a slouch by any means.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,670
    Well, emblems are cheap. Make it whatever you want!

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    edited January 2015
    That's a fair amount of car to pull around with 195 horses I think, but I'd say most Chevys were sold that way. My grandparents had a new '63 Bel Air wagon followed by a new '67 Impala Sport Coupe and both had 283's with Powerglide, and Grandpa never complained and he did have a heavy foot.

    It's funny about '66 Caprices--"Caprice Coupe" is something I've searched on eBay fairly regularly, and it has always seemed to me that more '66's come up than any other single year, generally, probably followed by '69's.

    Andre, I'm surprised your '76 LeMans has an outside hood release. The only Chevys I can think of that had one in '76 are the Monza and Nova. My '63 Lark had an inside release. Looking online at the Old Car Manual brochures section, I can't find a full-line '73 LeMans or '74 LeMans brochure, but the '74 Grand Am shows that it has an inside hood release.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    Spotted today, up-close-and-personal--the gold '77 Caprice Classic sedan I've seen from my upstairs office window before. It was getting gas on the other side of the pump from me today. Other than parking-lot dings, I truly haven't seen one in that condition in probably twenty or more years. Gold with original gold cloth interior that looks like a three-year-old car--and it's the original upholstery; I can tell. And amazingly...the top of the dash isn't cracked! Has the nice goldish cloth interior with fold-down center armrest in front.

    The seventy-ish lady owner told me they bought it several years back with only 26K miles, and that she and her husband had had a '78 for fourteen years that they enjoyed. Sadly, today is a slushy, salty day out here. I wouldn't have driven it today.
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  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,399


    Andre, I'm surprised your '76 LeMans has an outside hood release. The only Chevys I can think of that had one in '76 are the Monza and Nova. My '63 Lark had an inside release. Looking online at the Old Car Manual brochures section, I can't find a full-line '73 LeMans or '74 LeMans brochure, but the '74 Grand Am shows that it has an inside hood release.

    I can't be totally certain, but I think my '77 LeMans had an outside hood release. I have a recollection of a black handle in the bumper cutout.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    If the '76 had one, the '77 probably did as well--I seem to remember pretty-similar front ends on them.
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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    This isn't a "project car". this one is a ROACH!

    That bondo looks it was paid down with a cement trowel but I'm more impressed about how they beefed up the rusted floorboards!

    Anyone?

    http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4824160647.html
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    I know people just loved those 240-Z's, but they never did a thing for me...I'm old-fashioned I guess. Shocker, huh? LOL
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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,786
    wow. That fender is atrocious. And the trunk makes it look like it was completely submerged. Hey, here's an idea, dry the damned thing out before taking the pics.

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  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,639
    ab348 said:


    Andre, I'm surprised your '76 LeMans has an outside hood release. The only Chevys I can think of that had one in '76 are the Monza and Nova. My '63 Lark had an inside release. Looking online at the Old Car Manual brochures section, I can't find a full-line '73 LeMans or '74 LeMans brochure, but the '74 Grand Am shows that it has an inside hood release.

    I can't be totally certain, but I think my '77 LeMans had an outside hood release. I have a recollection of a black handle in the bumper cutout.
    Our 73 Pontiac Grand Am and 76 Cutlass Supreme wagon both had interior hood releases, actually they were identical. My 71 Vega GT had an interior release, I guess because of it being hinged at the front, 76 Sunbird, like the Monza a 'T, handle under the front bumper.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    edited January 2015
    sda, do you have anything good to say about your '71 Vega GT? Probably not. ;) I can't think of a car that had more promise, that just was such a letdown. They were built about 40 miles from where I grew up, and 40 miles from where I live now (on the opposite side). People from my hometown worked there. It was the darling of the car mags for a good while. I did like the looks of the GT, as long as one got the Custom Interior option which was basically the Camaro bucket seats. Cornering was pretty flat for the time. What color was yours, and was it a hatchback (some were wagons but most weren't). Thanks!

    My grandparents bought new, the very first Vega our dealer got in. It was a stripped two-door sedan with one-barrel and 3-speed--dark green with pumpkin-colored vinyl interior and floor covering. Only options were AM radio and white-stripe tires--stickered at $2,257 at the bottom, I remember that. I never understood why they didn't put a glovebox in the '71's--there was plenty of room for one and the '72's got one.
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  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,639

    sda, do you have anything good to say about your '71 Vega GT? Probably not. ;) I can't think of a car that had more promise, that just was such a letdown. They were built about 40 miles from where I grew up, and 40 miles from where I live now (on the opposite side). People from my hometown worked there. It was the darling of the car mags for a good while. I did like the looks of the GT, as long as one got the Custom Interior option which was basically the Camaro bucket seats. Cornering was pretty flat for the time. What color was yours, and was it a hatchback (some were wagons but most weren't). Thanks!

    My grandparents bought new, the very first Vega our dealer got in. It was a stripped two-door sedan with one-barrel and 3-speed--dark green with pumpkin-colored vinyl interior and floor covering. Only options were AM radio and white-stripe tires--stickered at $2,257 at the bottom, I remember that. I never understood why they didn't put a glovebox in the '71's--there was plenty of room for one and the '72's got one.


    Yes, I liked my Vega GT. I thought it drove well and had a better ride compared to the Datsuns and Toyotas of the time. I traded my 62 Galaxie at the local Chrysler-Plymouth dealer. Got $150 for the Ford and paid $450 for the Vega. Had my first car payment of $27 month! This was in late 1977. It was a hatchback, sunflower yellow, black stripe, black standard interior,tinted glass, am radio. It did have the optional two position driver seatback, a poor substitute to a reclining one. Yes it burned oil and had some rust, thou very little. It always started and never left me stranded. I traded it my freshman year in college for a 76 Sunbird coupe which I drove for almost 7 years. It had the Buick V-6 105 hp (laughable today)' 5 speed trans, poly cast wheels, ac, ps, pb, tinted glass, luxury interior. Yet no center console or gauges other than speedo and fuel. It was light metallic blue with white interior. Dark blue dash, medium blue carpet, white seats, door panels, headliner. I really liked that car.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,088
    IIRC, even Consumer Reports rated the Vega "Better than Average" at first. I've known a few people who have had them, and had fond memories of them. A guy in one of the Mopar clubs I used to be in once had a Vega. Forget the year, but he said he had it to around 90,000 miles, and the only thing that really stood out was having a cylinder re-sleeved. When I was a kid, one of my neighbors used to race Vegas. He'd throw in a 350, make other mods, and have a good time.

    As for the Monza and its siblings, I've heard the Buick 231 V-6 was actually a pretty good choice. These cars were fairly heavy, so the 4-cyl was a bit over-matched. But the V-8's they offered in various years were simply too heavy, and would cause all sorts handling and front-end issues.

    I remember getting a Matchbox slotless racecar set in Christmas of 1979. It came with two cars...a blue Monza and a white car...Porsche, I think. Sad, isn't it, that I'd remember the Chevy, but not the other car. Anyway, I thought that Monza was a cool looking car. When Mom went new car shopping in February of 1980, I was sort of rooting for the Monza. Of course, a stock Monza isn't going to be *quite* the same thing as a racecar Monza! Anyway, she ended up coming home with a Malibu coupe. At least, she bought it in blue, the color I was rooting for. And in retrospect, that Malibu was a decent car for the time. I don't know if the Monza would have held up as well, long term.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,593
    It seems a lot of Malibus of that era were painted in that nice lighter metallic blue, I've seen more than a few. It is a nice color, especially compared to many of that era.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,989
    edited January 2015
    andre, I actually had two high school friends who got new '75 Monza 2+2 V8's. 'Envious' isn't the word! One was an orange one with saddle cloth, and the other was red with sandalwood (light) vinyl. Both were AT's and PS and PB. I anxiously awaited one appearing at our dealer's, and none showed up until Feb. '75 which made me think there were production issues. I've subsequently seen very-early ones and they had chrome-edging on the B-pillar vents, but by the time my friends got theirs, it was just silver paint there. The red one was actually a regional rep's car and had 2,600 miles when my friend got it, still in '75.

    Those cars started at $300 more than a Camaro, base price!

    At the time, I thought they were magnificent-looking. Not quite as much so today ;).

    A Vega-sized car with a V8 was cool to me...and they sounded neat.

    That said, both wore out the Firestone radials quickly up front, and I could hear the brakes coming down our street half-a-block away. That's no joke.

    The '76 supposedly addressed these areas, but I didn't like the new instrument panel nearly as well, nor the extra, square 'corners' they put on the rear bumpers.

    Both of my friends' cars stickered at $4,800-odd....about the same as a new Impala (not 'S') 4-door with whitewalls, wheelcovers, AT, PS, PB, radio.

    The red one is still owned by my friend, although he's really not my friend anymore. ;)

    The orange one was owned by a family who viewed cars as disposable and by '80 or so, it looked like crap.

    Both cars tended to lose their nice-looking wheelcovers easily. The red one is now mounted on factory Monza aluminum wheels.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,088
    edited January 2015
    Mom's '80 Malibu, which got passed down to me, was this shade...


    Of course, mine didn't have those 15" Rally wheels...just 14" steel wheels with hubcaps. No stand up hood ornament, either.

    Oh, on the subject of Monte Carlos and headroom (that might have been the other thread), the downsized '78+ intermediates definitely have more headroom than the '73-77. I don't ever remember headroom being an issue in my '80 Malibu, '82 Cutlass Supreme, or '86 Monte Carlo. However, with my '76 LeMans, headroom is definitely tighter. In the normal driving position I'm okay, although can tell the ceiling is close, through my peripheral vision. If I lean forward, my hair will sometimes brush the ceiling.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,670
    I like the style on that iteration Andre. Very clean. And think it makes a real nice hot rod candidate. Something subtle, a nice 350 crate motor, and suspension/brake upgrades. actually looks like what might have been done on that one you posted, based on the tires and tailpipe tip.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,088
    stickguy said:

    Well, emblems are cheap. Make it whatever you want!

    That's what my Dad did, with a '63 Impala SS409 he had before he got drafted. It had the optional 425 hp setup. He put "6-cyl" badges on it! I doubt it fooled anybody though, as a 409 has a slightly different rumble!

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    They say the 409 ran out of steam pretty fast, but had a lot of low-end grunt befitting a truck engine.
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