Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

Yeah, I'd much rather have a mint W140 than a W220 - the former may be older, but a lot less potential for trouble, and the design is already kind of classic. Really hard to find a genuinely pristine one, even some low mileage ones have issues.

fintail

If I was after an R129, this would be one to look at a little dear, of course.

Mr_Shiftright

MEH...no blower on that one.

qbrozen

good grief. What was the power output of that thing? I like how he shows the original EPA ratings as if they matter anymore.

boomchek

That Renntech is cool. I wish they had more details on it such as power output and what that TV looking thing is by the centre console.

And I think $15-$20k is the real money on that one.

Mr_Shiftright

Nothing older than old tech. There are probably $35,000 new cars that could slap that thing silly, with a warranty to boot. Still, for the eccentric collector of oddball Benz variants, to add perhaps to his underground cellar of dusty relics---why not? On the other hand, you could just buy a normal SL500 for 1/3rd the price and a nice exhaust system and an AMG badge---who would know?

I'm not a big fan of high HP mixed with high weight---this gives you an exciting but wearisome driving situation, which eats up brakes and tires and forces you into making lots of effort to drive fast effectively.

boomchek

Exactly Shifty, a die hard collector with deep pockets is someone that will jump on it, if the price is right. Otherwise at mid $30's range one can get into a newer SL55 AMG.

fintail

I am pretty sure the TV thing is a late 90s era GPS system. I agree, a 20K or so car, on a good day, if it all checks out.

It's not about sporty driving, it's about straight line speed and boulevard looks.

Now if it was a SL73 instead...

lemmer

A Porsche 928 with hot start problems for $3700. It is only a matter of time until they catch a ride on the old Porsche bubble, right?

fintail

Mint 928 GTS are already riding the wave. Earlier cars, not so much.

boomchek

Automatic, not the best color, and with problems. I don't think it's worth it.

lemmer

The guy has had it listed at that price for at least a year. He keeps reposting the ad but never lowers the price.

stickguy

I'm catching up on my stored shows on the DVR. Just watched an episode of classic car rescue and they did a 928GT. Stick. RHD. looked nice at the end!

Mr_Shiftright

Too bad it's an automatic. Doesn't look too bad bodywise---seats are wrong. Early 928s aren't going anywhere in value. A later GTS is worth 3X or 4Xs the price of a 1980 model. You can buy really nice early 928s for $12,500, and that's the way you want to buy them----DONE.

However, this one might be a good buy for a 928 expert with a garage full of spares. For a rosy-cheeked newbie, probably a disaster waiting to happen.

gsemike

lemmer said:

A Porsche 928 with hot start problems for $3700. It is only a matter of time until they catch a ride on the old Porsche bubble, right?

I always had a thing for them since Risky Business

Michaell

gsemike said:

lemmer said:

A Porsche 928 with hot start problems for $3700. It is only a matter of time until they catch a ride on the old Porsche bubble, right?

I always had a thing for them since Risky Business

One of my favorite lines .. "Who's the U-Boat commander?"

gsemike

Craigs in NY

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/4878720843.html $900 for a non-running 30 year old Diesel Rabbit? Just wondering if this was in decent working order, what would the driving experience be like by today's standards?

http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/cto/4878694014.html Looks like a nice Triumph but pricey with a poor choice of wheels

http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/cto/4869551531.html Really clean for one of these. Could be used in a hot rod build up. I'd like to see a better pic of that floor shifter

http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/4878499504.html So ugly that it's kind of cool

http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/cto/4854601552.html Really nice looking 911. Will defer to you gentlemen on the price

http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/cto/4878557864.html Bloated car with smogged up 350 = all you want in a muscle car

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/cto/4870620416.html Much nicer but what is a 1966 OLDSMOBILE F-85 DELUXE 442 OPTION DELTA 88

http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/4878490908.html 1 of 2. Who even needs 1 of them?

http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/cto/4878450954.html Deloran. Cool but is this what they go for?

http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/cto/4878400469.html I'm hot and cold on early 60 Impalas. This is a year I like. Car looks like a decent cruiser although I'm not a cherry bomb fan

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/cto/4878344024.html Mark V. Looks like a beauty. Not the original wheel covers I believe

http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/cto/4842075608.html Dude put a lot of work into this. It's not for everyone I'd assume

xwesx

gsemike said:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/4878720843.html $900 for a non-running 30 year old Diesel Rabbit? Just wondering if this was in decent working order, what would the driving experience be like by today's standards?

A diesel Rabbit.... Driving experience is probably better with it being a NON-runner! That way, at least you're leaving something to the imagination that it could be possibly a fun drive. LOL

My best friend in HS had one of these, and it was such a dog. A five-speed, though, so we could wring a little bit of fun out of it, but top speed was 55 (and even that was pushing it). It was a pretty good car for plowing through snow, though.

Built like a tank, though. I'll give it that much!

texases

$35k for a 911 with an engine in parts? Yikes!

boomchek

If the diesel Rabbit has good body, it'll get picked up by a tuner for a makeover. I'm starting to see a few lightly modded older VW's, some fully restored as they are 30+ years now.

ab348

The problem with the Nova is that it is so plain inside that you would probably not want to drive it, unless you ripped out the original and replaced it with something else.

The '66 F85 is nice but the guy writing the ad has no clue what he is talking about. It has a 330, and in a '66 that means it is not a 4-4-2 in any way, shape or form as they had a 400 CID engine. As for the Delta 88 reference, he is just flat wrong since that refers to a fullsize car.

I agree on that '63 American - the "bloody ordnance vehicle". A flathead 6 in 1963!

uplanderguy

I agree on that '63 American - the "bloody ordnance vehicle". A flathead 6 in 1963!

Not only a flathead six, but vacuum windshield wipers too.

andre1969

That Nova's interior really is a putoff. I hate that dashboard, especially. For some reason, I tend to associate a more modern dashboard with the '75-79 Nova, one that was more squared off, and had four round gauge dials (even if they housed idiot lights). Maybe that dash came later?

That front seat looks pretty low-rent too. I wonder if it was recovered...or were the base models really that bad? Otherwise, I like the exterior. I always thought the '75 was a very attractive update. And I can even tolerate that exterior color...what would you call that, anyway? To me it looks like it's not quite beige, not quite green.

fintail

Pirelli wheels, lowered/stanced, visible rust maybe even exaggerated for "patina" (surprised the hood isn't sanded and rusted) - perfect for the flat-brimmed cap VW bro set.

boomchek said:

If the diesel Rabbit has good body, it'll get picked up by a tuner for a makeover. I'm starting to see a few lightly modded older VW's, some fully restored as they are 30+ years now.

boomchek

fintail said:

Pirelli wheels, lowered/stanced, visible rust maybe even exaggerated for "patina" (surprised the hood isn't sanded and rusted) - perfect for the flat-brimmed cap VW bro set.

boomchek said:

If the diesel Rabbit has good body, it'll get picked up by a tuner for a makeover. I'm starting to see a few lightly modded older VW's, some fully restored as they are 30+ years now.

Lol, it seems to be a growing trend I think in the North West in general. Not too mention many of these have empty roof racks or roof top baskets.

fintail

Yep, old VWs and BMWs with "patina", lowered, odd wheels, roof rack, a big thing here.

The sanding to create rust thing irks me.

boomchek said:

Lol, it seems to be a growing trend I think in the North West in general. Not too mention many of these have empty roof racks or roof top baskets.

fintail

A mint no miles no needs DeLorean can bring that, but not a well-loved modified car like that. Nice Antera (I think) wheels on that, also fitting for any early 90s tuned car.

If I had infinite garage space and budget, I'd have a DeLorean with a full BTTF conversion.

gsemike said:

Craigs in NY


http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/cto/4878450954.html Deloran. Cool but is this what they go for?

berri

Not only a flathead six, but vacuum windshield wipers too

Why would you feature the butt end of that American? Ugly, kind of primitive - but you know what, those things seemed to go forever.

uplanderguy

I had a high-school friend, well-off, whose Dad drove a '64 Rambler American wagon (way updated from the '63)--drove it 'til '73 and my friend was mortified, but his Dad was unrepentant--thought it was a good car. An older coworker used to say, too, that his '64 Rambler Classic was "the best car I ever owned". This is a small thing, but I always hated how their speedometers left the zeroes off, so '120' showed up as '12'!

uplanderguy

Concerning that '75 Nova--been a long time since I've seen one that looked that original from the outside, around here.

andre, that bench seat is the standard-trim Nova seat with optional (usually $19 I think) vinyl trim. They were that plain!

Although that's the cheapo instrument panel, I like the looks of that panel better than the later ('77-79) panel, which really was only the top half of the panel changed and the 'cutaway' direction of the pad on the right side, made straight. I don't like the looks of that panel, but it put all instruments in front of the driver, unlike the optional gauges on the floor console of earlier Novas. The '75 and '76 panel was similar to the '69-74, but the pad above the glovebox was cut away from the passenger.

I like the '75 Nova LN panel--with glossy black around the cluster. The Nova Custom had that panel too, but without the light-colored trim. For some reason, I'm unable to cut and paste a link showing that panel here.

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

I agree on that '63 American - the "bloody ordnance vehicle". A flathead 6 in 1963!

Not only a flathead six, but vacuum windshield wipers too.

Not to mention They want $5600 for this butt ugly, flathead-powered, vacuum wiped, vehicle.

Mr_Shiftright

'78 911 SC -- way too risky for $35,000. If anything on that engine were done wrong, you can kiss $18,000 bucks goodbye. Besides that, there's the labor to assemble and install. I don't see how this guy pulls this number of $35,000 out of his.....er...hat. I'm thinking that the car is worth $15,000 unless he finishes it, and THEN, with a fresh engine and a pristine and impeccable car he might get his price.

81 Delorean -- well, this is no normal Delorean, and considering he probably has a boatload of money in it, $27,000 isn't unreasonable.

it's the rare Delorean that breaks $30,000. Most are lucky to break $20K. There are two Delorean Realities (Parallel Universes). There's what we call the "Real World" and then there's the world of Delorean Owners, who tend to forget that were it not for a movie, their cars would be worth about the same as a 6 cylinder '81 Camaro.

berri

With a Delorean aren't you really buying a fancy body on a Renault, but made in Ireland?

Mr_Shiftright

Well no, it is a Lotus design and all that, with Peugeot/Volvo power, and yes, built by blind people in Ireland. Tragic story, really, and I shouldn't make fun. The idea was to provide jobs to a very depressed part of Ireland (prior to their newfound prosperity of sorts) and became something of a taxpayer swindle. Nasty business.

The car was supposed to have Lotus turbo power as well as some kind of quality control. Neither happened, and we ended up with a leaking, creaking, easily-stained (so much for "stainless") car that couldn't get out of its own way.

lemmer

I can buy a really nice water cooled 911 for half the price. Sure the air cooled ones are fun, but I am done with them. I can have a decent water cooled 911 and buy a nice 914 to go along with it for "character".

texases

lemmer said:

I can buy a really nice water cooled 911 for half the price. Sure the air cooled ones are fun, but I am done with them. I can have a decent water cooled 911 and buy a nice 914 to go along with it for "character".

But, but...it's not a *real* 911 if it's water cooled, right?

What's led to you being 'done with' air cooled 911s? They've always been in the back of my mind as a hobby car...

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

andre, that bench seat is the standard-trim Nova seat with optional (usually $19 I think) vinyl trim. They were that plain!

Although that's the cheapo instrument panel, I like the looks of that panel better than the later ('77-79) panel, which really was only the top half of the panel changed and the 'cutaway' direction of the pad on the right side, made straight. I don't like the looks of that panel, but it put all instruments in front of the driver, unlike the optional gauges on the floor console of earlier Novas. The '75 and '76 panel was similar to the '69-74, but the pad above the glovebox was cut away from the passenger.

It's interesting, how cheap they made the interior of the base Nova. Although, I guess the base interior of a Maverick, Valiant, or Dart was also bad, in their own way. It just seems like such a harsh contrast, because the '75 Nova looks like a nice, modern, slightly upscale compact. At least the Dart/Valiant had the excuse that they were getting old, and the Maverick was cheap.

I think that might be one reason I don't like that '75-76 dashboard...to me it looks too much like the earlier dash, like a holdover from the 60's, and seems to clash with the modern lines of the car. I actually prefer the blockier, '77-79 dash! And thanks for pointing that out, about the different years. I have trouble telling '75-79 Novas apart, other than the fact that I know later years had square headlights. I had seen both styles of dash, but didn't make the connection that one was '75-76 and the other was '77-79. I figured one was the cheapo and one was the upscale dash.

One detail I do like about the Nova though, is how it looks like they went with a full vinyl slab to cover the door panel. With the Dart/Valiant, in the earlier years, it was just a vinyl insert with exposed metal above and below. At some point in the 70's, they started putting a hard piece of plastic at the top, rather than exposed metal. Probably safer than the metal, but I thought the painted, shiny metal looked classier than the dull plastic.

I can't really remember the Maverick interior, but didn't it have some exposed metal on the door panel, as well?

lemmer

texases said:

lemmer said:

I can buy a really nice water cooled 911 for half the price. Sure the air cooled ones are fun, but I am done with them. I can have a decent water cooled 911 and buy a nice 914 to go along with it for "character".

But, but...it's not a *real* 911 if it's water cooled, right?

What's led to you being 'done with' air cooled 911s? They've always been in the back of my mind as a hobby car...

They are fun old cars with wonderful character, but they shift like a box of rocks (pre-1986), have terrible ergonomics, and they often have oil leaks all over the place. I am of the opinion everyone should own one at some point in their lives, but I am kind of glad I already got that out of the way.

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well no, it is a Lotus design and all that, with Peugeot/Volvo power, and yes, built by blind people in Ireland. Tragic story, really, and I shouldn't make fun. The idea was to provide jobs to a very depressed part of Ireland (prior to their newfound prosperity of sorts) and became something of a taxpayer swindle. Nasty business.

The car was supposed to have Lotus turbo power as well as some kind of quality control. Neither happened, and we ended up with a leaking, creaking, easily-stained (so much for "stainless") car that couldn't get out of its own way.

Those Peugeot/Volvo V-6 engines may have been the very worst engines built during that time.

They were horrible engines and the guys in the dealerships just despised them. a lot of Indy shops refused to work on them.

qbrozen

I thought the '78 SC was like one of the "gotta have" porsches? But shifty would know better, so I must be wrong.

Well, we know I'm a bit weird, and i really like the Rambler. But I do think that's a crazy price.

On that same note, I dig the Mach 5! Although I wouldn't be caught dead driving it. haha.

I gotta agree with Fintail on the Delorean. To me, heavy modifications to any car drive down the value.

isellhondas

It's nice but....29,000??


http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4859028799.html

Mr_Shiftright

Nah, the SC is late coming to the party. It's a great model--sturdy, reasonably civilized (if you don't mind a lack of ventilation, paltry AC and an irksome gearbox. The last 993s are so hot right now that they are dragging up all the other air-cooled cars, even the mediocre ones. I would certainly recommend an SC model (78-83) for a first-time air cooled car or a late 80s Carrera with the G50 gearbox. I don't like the 964s at all, nor the 75-77 2.7 Porsches.

The water-cooled cars are quite the "bargain" as long as your IMS bearing doesn't disintegrate (gulp).

gsemike

isellhondas said:

It's nice but....29,000??


http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4859028799.html

I think that the sellers of these cars are sure that it's time has come. Not sure if the buyer's feel the same way. Any car in the stratosphere like that needs 3 pedals

Mr_Shiftright

I think he's about $10K over market. The car is not show quality and looks like it's been tarted up for sale. Nice enough but the auctions he refers to are for frame-off restorations and he's a long way from that.

stickguy

I like it. Just needs a 4 speed.

ab348

andre1969 said:

It's interesting, how cheap they made the interior of the base Nova. Although, I guess the base interior of a Maverick, Valiant, or Dart was also bad, in their own way. It just seems like such a harsh contrast, because the '75 Nova looks like a nice, modern, slightly upscale compact. At least the Dart/Valiant had the excuse that they were getting old, and the Maverick was cheap.

A while ago I posted here about driving a Nova with the police package that a used-car sales friend tried to sell me in 1980 or so. That interior was similar to the one in the ad except the car I drove didn't even have front armrests. Cheapest interior ever.

One detail I do like about the Nova though, is how it looks like they went with a full vinyl slab to cover the door panel. With the Dart/Valiant, in the earlier years, it was just a vinyl insert with exposed metal above and below. At some point in the 70's, they started putting a hard piece of plastic at the top, rather than exposed metal. Probably safer than the metal, but I thought the painted, shiny metal looked classier than the dull plastic.

I can't really remember the Maverick interior, but didn't it have some exposed metal on the door panel, as well?

The Maverick door panels were basically all metal. They stamped the panel with a textured pattern in the metal and cut out part of the center to allow for a vinyl-covered insert where the armrest, door handle, etc went. But the surrounding portion was all-metal. They even used clear plastic lock button grommets on the upper sill which were easily broken. Cheap, cheap, cheap car.

andre1969

Ugh...it's all starting to come back to me now...


Although this doesn't look *too* bad, IMO...not quite as bad as I was picturing. And in retrospect, I guess the Dart really wasn't any better...


With the Dart though, I did like the chrome strip at the top of the vinyl insert...it added a little bit of class.

uplanderguy

Remember that early Mavericks didn't even have a glovebox...they had a big open shelf under the dash.

uplanderguy

We had a '73 Nova coupe, and it had a door panel like this (except ours wasn't a "Custom" so didn't have the woodgrain piece and little "Custom" nameplate):

http://s206.photobucket.com/user/Tran2la/media/74 Chevy Nova/IMG_4204-1.jpg.html#/user/Tran2la/media/74 Chevy Nova/IMG_4204-1.jpg.html?&_suid=1423256706714043287166056507053

I liked that it was soft from top-to-bottom, and unlike the straps on Monte Carlos, that soft strap was plenty to actually close the door!

berri

Is that a Maverick or an upscale Mercury Comet? I'm thinking the latter is a lovely poop brown shade of color