VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

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  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 238,190
    edited February 2017

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  • 28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,287
    My Dad just saw the preliminary values for his Touareg for both fix and buyback (if they can't come up with a timely fix) and he is ecstatic. 

    If I hadn't burned up my capital with the wife, I'd be looking for a 3.0L right now...
    2022 Tesla Model Y Performance, 2018 BMW M240i Convertible
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 232,952
    Someone do the math, so I can start looking. ;)

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,314
    @Michaell

    i saw that article.  Nuts.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,314

    kyfdx said:
    Someone do the math, so I can start looking. ;)
    Right now, they are saying they'll buy back 2012 & before & try to fix 2013 & up.  I'd love to get a hold of a Q5 3.0 TDI to drive for a few months.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,707

    If I hadn't burned up my capital with the wife,

    The wife capital is no joke!

    I would have absolutely purchased a stack of the 2.0Ls if it would not have been a major source of tension in my house! :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 232,952
    nyccarguy said:



    kyfdx said:

    Someone do the math, so I can start looking. ;)

    Right now, they are saying they'll buy back 2012 & before & try to fix 2013 & up.  I'd love to get a hold of a Q5 3.0 TDI to drive for a few months.

    There are zero 2009-12 Touaregs within 500 miles of me, for sale.

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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,707
    I am not comfortable enough yet with the risk levels on the 3.0L. I strongly suspect that the initial settlement agreement will take into consideration "lessons learned" from the 2.0L settlement. They may even look to cut the legs out from under the "restitution" payment for those that purchase after the initial announcement of the agreement (did that initial announcement happen already?!) just to save the company some money on those cars where people bought them looking to turn a buck.

    Agreed, though, @kyfdx, I certainly wouldn't mind having one for a time!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,689
    I'm reading the documents right now. :)

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,707
    edited February 2017
    breld said:

    I'm reading the documents right now. :)

    Great! I didn't realize they had the settlement information up already. They're moving quickly on this!

    Looks like a very similar arrangement to the 2.0L vehicles; except that there is no "former owner" window. If someone owned the vehicle at the time of the scandal breaking, but later sold it (even now or in the future), they are former owner and anyone buying it after that time is only eligible for 50%+ of restitution. Still, not terrible!

    I am going to pry myself away now, and wait for @breld to provide his take!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,707
    Okay, I lied. Curiosity got the better of me! One major difference I see: No ownership ineligibility for those buying from an authorized dealer.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    A reporter is interested in speaking with someone who's participated in VW's car buyback program. If this is you, and you're interested in connecting with the reporter, please send a note to [email protected] no later than 6 p.m. PST on Friday, Feb. 3, 2017.
    Thanks!
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,689
    edited February 2017
    Okay - fairly quick read through the FTC order:

    Not surprisingly, conceptually it is very similar to the 2.0l settlement.

    For Gen 1 owners (2009-2012 models):
    • Choice of Buyback or Approved Emissions Modification (AEM). Buyback is supposed to represent Sep-2015 retail value plus the restitution. Electing an AEM gets you that restitution payment. Restitution looks to be about $9-15k, obviously depending on the year, make and model of vehicle.
    For Gen 2 owners (2013-2015 models):
    • Certified Emissions Repair - a repair (if approved) that must fully restore the vehicle to the emissions standard VW originally promised consumers (an AEM reduces emissions to an acceptable standard but not to the originally promised levels). If such a repair is approved and available, an owner will receive the repair plus a restitution, ranging from about $9-15k.
    • If that Repair results in a loss of 3 mpg or more, and/or a loss of 5% of HP or torque, there is an additional $500 payment.
    • If a Certified Emission Repair is not made available, owners will have the choice of a buyback or AEM (plus restitution). It appears the AEM Restitution is much higher than the Repairs Restitution (which makes sense I suppose).
    "Post-September 2015 Purchase Restitution" is for those who purchased the car after September 18, 2015. Payments are reduced by 50% of the AEM for a buyback or AEM election, and 50% of the Repair Restitution for a Certified Emissions Repair.

    One big difference for this - it seems they will track the specific "former eligible owner" by vehicle. There's a statement that says, "If neither an Eligible Former Owner nor an Eligible Former Lessee timely files a valid claim, the Post-September Purchaser Restitution is equal to 100% of...."

    And good catch by @xwesx - doesn't look like purchases from VW dealers are excluded.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,689
    So....

    This Touareg is available at a local dealer:

    2013 Touareg TDI Lux

    List price of $40,354. For right now, the only actual tables I can find are VIN specific (yes, a 184 page document) and the VIN #'s are blacked out.

    There is a summary table that has the following figures for a 2013 Touareg Lux:
    • Certified Emissions Repair - $8,822 - $8,869
    • Buyback (if no Repair approved) - $47,478 - $51,726
    • AEM (if no Repair approved) - $12,928 - $16,751
    So, can't say it's incredibly compelling, but there's some interest there.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,689
    xwesx said:

    breld said:

    I'm reading the documents right now. :)

    Great! I didn't realize they had the settlement information up already. They're moving quickly on this!

    Looks like a very similar arrangement to the 2.0L vehicles; except that there is no "former owner" window. If someone owned the vehicle at the time of the scandal breaking, but later sold it (even now or in the future), they are former owner and anyone buying it after that time is only eligible for 50%+ of restitution. Still, not terrible!

    I am going to pry myself away now, and wait for @breld to provide his take!
    I don't know about that "former owner" window comment - the FTC order, similar to the 2.0l settlement, states that a previous owner who sells the car after January 31, 2017 is no longer an eligible former owner.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,689
    Quick look at local Audi TDIs - this seems interesting:

    2014 A7

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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,707
    breld said:

    I don't know about that "former owner" window comment - the FTC order, similar to the 2.0l settlement, states that a previous owner who sells the car after January 31, 2017 is no longer an eligible former owner.

    Oh, yeah.... Nice catch! I completely missed that on quick perusal. Exclusion "f" below spells it out clearly:

    The following entities and individuals are excluded from the Class:
    (a) Owners who acquired an Eligible Vehicle after September 18, 2015, and sold it before November 2, 2015;
    (b) Owners who acquired an Eligible Vehicle after November 2, 2015, and transferred title on or before January 31, 2017;
    (c) Owners who own an Eligible Vehicle as of January 31, 2017 and transfer title before participating in the 3.0-liter Settlement Program, unless the Eligible Vehicle is (i) unintentionally damaged after January 31, 2017, in a manner that renders it a total loss (i.e., “totaled”) and (ii) transferred to an insurance company or otherwise permanently removed from commerce;
    (d) Lessees of a Generation One Eligible Vehicle leased from a leasing company other than VW Credit, Inc., and lessees of a Generation Two Eligible Vehicle leased from a leasing company other than VW Credit, Inc., or Porsche Financial Services, Inc.;
    (e) Owners whose Eligible Vehicle had a Branded Title of Assembled, Dismantled, Flood, Junk, Rebuilt, Reconstructed, or Salvage on September 18, 2015, and was acquired from a junkyard, salvage yard, or salvage dealer after September 18, 2015;
    (f) Owners who sell or otherwise transfer ownership of their Eligible Vehicle after January 31, 2017, unless ownership of the vehicle was transferred to an insurance company because the vehicle was totaled or otherwise permanently removed from commerce;
    (g) Defendants’ officers, directors and employees; Defendants’ affiliates and affiliates’ officers, directors and employees; their distributors and distributors’ officers, directors and employees; participants in Volkswagen’s Internal Lease Program and/or Porsche Associate Lease Program; and Authorized Dealers and Authorized Dealers’ officers and directors;
    (h) Judicial officers and their immediate family members and associated court staff assigned to this case; and
    (i) All those otherwise in the Class who or which timely and properly exclude themselves from the Class as provided in this 3.0-liter Class Action Agreement.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 232,952
    That was the same wording on the 2.0 litre settlement.

    If you sold the vehicle, after the settlement date (06/28/2016), you were no longer eligible for compensation.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 232,952
    There are no 2009-2012 vehicles available, anywhere near me..

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  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    breld said:

    Quick look at local Audi TDIs - this seems interesting:

    2014 A7

    Let me know if you go test drive this weekend. :)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,809
    edited February 2017
    Just searched cars.com within 500 miles of me for audi or vw 3.0 diesels between 09 and 12, and found just 1. 

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/691957317/overview?aff=share_text

    Coincidentally enough, at a Toyota dealer. I bought my Jetta from a Toyota dealer. I don't think I'm brave enough to jump in on this one. The first time was stressful enough.

    '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 232,952
    qbrozen said:

    Just searched cars.com within 500 miles of me for audi or vw 3.0 diesels between 09 and 12, and found just 1. 

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/691957317/overview?aff=share_text

    Coincidentally enough, at a Toyota dealer. I bought my Jetta from a Toyota dealer. I don't think I'm brave enough to jump in on this one. The first time was stressful enough.

    Can't make any money at that price.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,689
    Yeah - right now the only way to get the buyback for sure is to go for the Gen 1 vehicles.

    For instance, I like that A7 I posted above, and it seems to be priced fairly. The thing is, if I wanted an A7 regardless, than I could be getting one with a nice discount coming back upon the repair or modification. But the real money to be made would be upon buyback, and that's only if they don't come up with the approved repair.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,809
    kyfdx said:
    Just searched cars.com within 500 miles of me for audi or vw 3.0 diesels between 09 and 12, and found just 1. 

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/691957317/overview?aff=share_text

    Coincidentally enough, at a Toyota dealer. I bought my Jetta from a Toyota dealer. I don't think I'm brave enough to jump in on this one. The first time was stressful enough.
    Can't make any money at that price.
    Huh. I swear that was $24,999 when I posted it.

    well, anyway, one with 73k miles got over $26k at auction 3 weeks ago. You sure that won't make money? Had to be worth more back in Sep 2015, no?

    '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 232,952
    qbrozen said:


    kyfdx said:

    qbrozen said:

    Just searched cars.com within 500 miles of me for audi or vw 3.0 diesels between 09 and 12, and found just 1. 

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/691957317/overview?aff=share_text

    Coincidentally enough, at a Toyota dealer. I bought my Jetta from a Toyota dealer. I don't think I'm brave enough to jump in on this one. The first time was stressful enough.

    Can't make any money at that price.

    Huh. I swear that was $24,999 when I posted it.

    well, anyway, one with 73k miles got over $26k at auction 3 weeks ago. You sure that won't make money? Had to be worth more back in Sep 2015, no?

    The buyback chart is out. But, didn't see the mileage adjustments.

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  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 10,190
    There is a 2010 Q7 with 60k on eBay. Dealer has it priced at $29,990, which looks to be about $10,000 above clean retail.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,809
    Not sure where you guys are getting your numbers, but a couple of Q7s crossed in Dec with over 60k and got $28k each. One in Chicago in Sept got $23k.

    '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 10,190
    2010 model year? I got an appraisal from Edmunds TMV. Guess they are a ways off on TDIs.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,809
    Yup, 2010s

    '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 10,190
    Nice! I'm betting we will get a notification via mail once the settlement is approved. 
  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    Wow, the gift that keeps on giving. Another $350, not huge, but unexpected, and I will be happy to get it.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,714
    I will appreciate another $350. That'll pay for about 2 Korean or Chinese tires on a Golf R :worried: Saving my pennies. At the end of my Kia lease... I'd love to have the Golf R as the daily driver and the TTS as the weekender/track beast.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,707
    I took the plunge! Now, I'll just have to see how this pans out. ;)


    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 10,190
    edited February 2017
    A Q7? How cheap did you get it? Year and mileage for the CCBA database?
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,314
    So where is that buyback chart?  What do y'all think of this (besides the fact that it is very expensive):

    http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=449638409&zip=06901&endYear=2018&pageLayout=list&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=1981&searchRadius=300&offset=30&mmt=[AUDI[Q7[]][]]

    2015 Q7 TDI Prestige
    16K Miles
    asking $55K at an MB Dealer in MD

    Auction Figures @qbrozen?


    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,226
    well, Wes, that Q7 should be a lot more comfortable for a long tour across the US than an overloaded Forester was.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,809
    nyccarguy said:
    So where is that buyback chart?  What do y'all think of this (besides the fact that it is very expensive):

    http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=449638409&zip=06901&endYear=2018&pageLayout=list&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=1981&searchRadius=300&offset=30&mmt=[AUDI[Q7[]][]]

    2015 Q7 TDI Prestige
    16K Miles
    asking $55K at an MB Dealer in MD

    Auction Figures @qbrozen?


    Only one near those miles had 19k and got $47k

    '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,314
    So $55K seems like a good price. The in service date is 9/12/2015.

    Emission Complaint Repair range is between $9,286 - $9,861

    Buyback range is $67,369 - $79,342

    Keep w/ Emission Modifications Range is $14,289 - $21,837

    Carfax says the 1st owner was CORPORATE. Does it still qualify?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,314
    Looks like every other Q7 TDI is either new or used with between 50,000 - 65,000 miles.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,689
    qbrozen said:


    nyccarguy said:

    So where is that buyback chart?  What do y'all think of this (besides the fact that it is very expensive):

    http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=449638409&zip=06901&endYear=2018&pageLayout=list&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=1981&searchRadius=300&offset=30&mmt=[AUDI[Q7[]][]]

    2015 Q7 TDI Prestige
    16K Miles
    asking $55K at an MB Dealer in MD

    Auction Figures @qbrozen?



    Only one near those miles had 19k and got $47k

    Hmmm - like this one? Or maybe it is this one (carfax says it sold at auction in January).

    2015 Q7 TDI Prestige

    So $47k at auction and asking $53k? Not horrible. I think the buyer for this VW dealer longs to work for Audi. They have an entire front line of Audis on their used car lot.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,689
    edited February 2017
    Same dealer has this one too:

    2014 Q7 TDI Premium Plus

    A model year older and twice as many miles for a $11k savings? Not to mention the Prestige vs. Premium Plus.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,314
    Looks like the Q7 I posted from MD is a Premium, not a Prestige Model

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 10,190
    edited March 2017
    Look what came in the mail today...



    Looks like I don't need to do anything. :p
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 232,952
    Got my postcard, as well.

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  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 3,166
    I got the post card and an email. Woohoo
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,714
    I'm happy to get "UP TO" $350 without having to take any further action, but this notice is early; sounds like we won't see the money for months and months.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,707
    edited March 2017
    Still not sure what is wrong with my Q7, but was looking over the settlement agreement again today, and noted this section:

    7.2. Class Bridge Warranty During Delay. For Eligible Owners and Eligible Lessees with Generation Two Eligible Vehicles (i) whose original New Vehicle Limited Warranty and/or Powertrain Limited Warranty expired/expires prior to the timely availability of an Emissions Compliant Repair as outlined in Section A and paragraph 3 of Exhibit 1B, and (ii) which are not covered by any other applicable warranty and/or service contract (provided through Volkswagen, Porsche, or any third-party), Volkswagen agrees to provide a Class Bridge Warranty providing coverage and terms mirroring the coverage previously provided by the expired New Vehicle Limited Warranty or Powertrain Limited Warranty. The Class Bridge Warranty shall exclusively apply to covered repairs performed by an Authorized Dealer based on conditions that arose between (a) January 31, 2017, or the expiration date of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty or Powertrain Limited Warranty, whichever is later, and (b) the date that an Emissions Compliant Repair is approved or denied pursuant to Appendix B to the DOJ 3.0-liter Consent Decree. For avoidance of doubt, the benefits set forth in this provision are available only to Class Members who do not opt out. Individuals who opt out of the 3.0-liter Class Action Settlement will not be eligible for the Class Bridge Warranty and will be responsible for payment for any repairs performed by an Authorized Dealer that is not covered by another warranty and/or service contract.

    So, that's good news. Unfortunately, I'm not sure when it actually takes effect. I'm thinking it is not likely until after final approval, which is currently scheduled for April (or early May?) time frame. Depending on what looks to be the issue, I will need to make sure I talk with Audi before authorizing work be performed. The settlement states "authorized dealers" only, which I suppose is fine if they want to incur the expense of having the car shipped to their only Alaska dealer. Otherwise, perhaps they'll authorize the local facility to handle it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,226
    you are running out of cars. might have to press one of the old trucks into service if you want to get to work!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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