VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

Michaell

You guys are amateurs!

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-hoarders-say-theyre-making-huge-profits-off-1791341120

28firefighter

My Dad just saw the preliminary values for his Touareg for both fix and buyback (if they can't come up with a timely fix) and he is ecstatic. 

If I hadn't burned up my capital with the wife, I'd be looking for a 3.0L right now...

kyfdx

Someone do the math, so I can start looking.

nyccarguy

@Michaell

i saw that article.  Nuts.

nyccarguy

kyfdx said:

Someone do the math, so I can start looking.

Right now, they are saying they'll buy back 2012 & before & try to fix 2013 & up.  I'd love to get a hold of a Q5 3.0 TDI to drive for a few months.

xwesx

28firefighter said:

If I hadn't burned up my capital with the wife,

The wife capital is no joke!

I would have absolutely purchased a stack of the 2.0Ls if it would not have been a major source of tension in my house!

kyfdx

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:

Someone do the math, so I can start looking.

Right now, they are saying they'll buy back 2012 & before & try to fix 2013 & up.  I'd love to get a hold of a Q5 3.0 TDI to drive for a few months.

There are zero 2009-12 Touaregs within 500 miles of me, for sale.

xwesx

I am not comfortable enough yet with the risk levels on the 3.0L. I strongly suspect that the initial settlement agreement will take into consideration "lessons learned" from the 2.0L settlement. They may even look to cut the legs out from under the "restitution" payment for those that purchase after the initial announcement of the agreement (did that initial announcement happen already?!) just to save the company some money on those cars where people bought them looking to turn a buck.

Agreed, though, @kyfdx, I certainly wouldn't mind having one for a time!

breld

I'm reading the documents right now.

xwesx

breld said:

I'm reading the documents right now.

Great! I didn't realize they had the settlement information up already. They're moving quickly on this!

Looks like a very similar arrangement to the 2.0L vehicles; except that there is no "former owner" window. If someone owned the vehicle at the time of the scandal breaking, but later sold it (even now or in the future), they are former owner and anyone buying it after that time is only eligible for 50%+ of restitution. Still, not terrible!

I am going to pry myself away now, and wait for @breld to provide his take!

xwesx

Okay, I lied. Curiosity got the better of me! One major difference I see: No ownership ineligibility for those buying from an authorized dealer.

PF_Flyer

A reporter is interested in speaking with someone who's participated in VW's car buyback program. If this is you, and you're interested in connecting with the reporter, please send a note to PR@Edmunds.com no later than 6 p.m. PST on Friday, Feb. 3, 2017.
Thanks!

breld

Okay - fairly quick read through the FTC order:

Not surprisingly, conceptually it is very similar to the 2.0l settlement.

For Gen 1 owners (2009-2012 models):

• Choice of Buyback or Approved Emissions Modification (AEM). Buyback is supposed to represent Sep-2015 retail value plus the restitution. Electing an AEM gets you that restitution payment. Restitution looks to be about $9-15k, obviously depending on the year, make and model of vehicle.
  

For Gen 2 owners (2013-2015 models):

• Certified Emissions Repair - a repair (if approved) that must fully restore the vehicle to the emissions standard VW originally promised consumers (an AEM reduces emissions to an acceptable standard but not to the originally promised levels). If such a repair is approved and available, an owner will receive the repair plus a restitution, ranging from about $9-15k.
  
• If that Repair results in a loss of 3 mpg or more, and/or a loss of 5% of HP or torque, there is an additional $500 payment.
  
• If a Certified Emission Repair is not made available, owners will have the choice of a buyback or AEM (plus restitution). It appears the AEM Restitution is much higher than the Repairs Restitution (which makes sense I suppose).
  

"Post-September 2015 Purchase Restitution" is for those who purchased the car after September 18, 2015. Payments are reduced by 50% of the AEM for a buyback or AEM election, and 50% of the Repair Restitution for a Certified Emissions Repair.

One big difference for this - it seems they will track the specific "former eligible owner" by vehicle. There's a statement that says, "If neither an Eligible Former Owner nor an Eligible Former Lessee timely files a valid claim, the Post-September Purchaser Restitution is equal to 100% of...."

And good catch by @xwesx - doesn't look like purchases from VW dealers are excluded.

breld

So....

This Touareg is available at a local dealer:

2013 Touareg TDI Lux

List price of $40,354. For right now, the only actual tables I can find are VIN specific (yes, a 184 page document) and the VIN #'s are blacked out.

There is a summary table that has the following figures for a 2013 Touareg Lux:

• Certified Emissions Repair - $8,822 - $8,869
  
• Buyback (if no Repair approved) - $47,478 - $51,726
  
• AEM (if no Repair approved) - $12,928 - $16,751
  

So, can't say it's incredibly compelling, but there's some interest there.

breld

xwesx said:

breld said:

I'm reading the documents right now.

Great! I didn't realize they had the settlement information up already. They're moving quickly on this!

Looks like a very similar arrangement to the 2.0L vehicles; except that there is no "former owner" window. If someone owned the vehicle at the time of the scandal breaking, but later sold it (even now or in the future), they are former owner and anyone buying it after that time is only eligible for 50%+ of restitution. Still, not terrible!

I am going to pry myself away now, and wait for @breld to provide his take!

I don't know about that "former owner" window comment - the FTC order, similar to the 2.0l settlement, states that a previous owner who sells the car after January 31, 2017 is no longer an eligible former owner.

breld

Quick look at local Audi TDIs - this seems interesting:

2014 A7

xwesx

breld said:

I don't know about that "former owner" window comment - the FTC order, similar to the 2.0l settlement, states that a previous owner who sells the car after January 31, 2017 is no longer an eligible former owner.

Oh, yeah.... Nice catch! I completely missed that on quick perusal. Exclusion "f" below spells it out clearly:

The following entities and individuals are excluded from the Class:
(a) Owners who acquired an Eligible Vehicle after September 18, 2015, and sold it before November 2, 2015;
(b) Owners who acquired an Eligible Vehicle after November 2, 2015, and transferred title on or before January 31, 2017;
(c) Owners who own an Eligible Vehicle as of January 31, 2017 and transfer title before participating in the 3.0-liter Settlement Program, unless the Eligible Vehicle is (i) unintentionally damaged after January 31, 2017, in a manner that renders it a total loss (i.e., “totaled”) and (ii) transferred to an insurance company or otherwise permanently removed from commerce;
(d) Lessees of a Generation One Eligible Vehicle leased from a leasing company other than VW Credit, Inc., and lessees of a Generation Two Eligible Vehicle leased from a leasing company other than VW Credit, Inc., or Porsche Financial Services, Inc.;
(e) Owners whose Eligible Vehicle had a Branded Title of Assembled, Dismantled, Flood, Junk, Rebuilt, Reconstructed, or Salvage on September 18, 2015, and was acquired from a junkyard, salvage yard, or salvage dealer after September 18, 2015;
(f) Owners who sell or otherwise transfer ownership of their Eligible Vehicle after January 31, 2017, unless ownership of the vehicle was transferred to an insurance company because the vehicle was totaled or otherwise permanently removed from commerce;
(g) Defendants’ officers, directors and employees; Defendants’ affiliates and affiliates’ officers, directors and employees; their distributors and distributors’ officers, directors and employees; participants in Volkswagen’s Internal Lease Program and/or Porsche Associate Lease Program; and Authorized Dealers and Authorized Dealers’ officers and directors;
(h) Judicial officers and their immediate family members and associated court staff assigned to this case; and
(i) All those otherwise in the Class who or which timely and properly exclude themselves from the Class as provided in this 3.0-liter Class Action Agreement.

kyfdx

That was the same wording on the 2.0 litre settlement.

If you sold the vehicle, after the settlement date (06/28/2016), you were no longer eligible for compensation.

kyfdx

There are no 2009-2012 vehicles available, anywhere near me..

jpp75

breld said:

Quick look at local Audi TDIs - this seems interesting:

2014 A7

Let me know if you go test drive this weekend.

qbrozen

Just searched cars.com within 500 miles of me for audi or vw 3.0 diesels between 09 and 12, and found just 1. 

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/691957317/overview?aff=share_text

Coincidentally enough, at a Toyota dealer. I bought my Jetta from a Toyota dealer. I don't think I'm brave enough to jump in on this one. The first time was stressful enough.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Just searched cars.com within 500 miles of me for audi or vw 3.0 diesels between 09 and 12, and found just 1. 

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/691957317/overview?aff=share_text

Coincidentally enough, at a Toyota dealer. I bought my Jetta from a Toyota dealer. I don't think I'm brave enough to jump in on this one. The first time was stressful enough.

Can't make any money at that price.

breld

Yeah - right now the only way to get the buyback for sure is to go for the Gen 1 vehicles.

For instance, I like that A7 I posted above, and it seems to be priced fairly. The thing is, if I wanted an A7 regardless, than I could be getting one with a nice discount coming back upon the repair or modification. But the real money to be made would be upon buyback, and that's only if they don't come up with the approved repair.

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

Just searched cars.com within 500 miles of me for audi or vw 3.0 diesels between 09 and 12, and found just 1. 

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/691957317/overview?aff=share_text

Coincidentally enough, at a Toyota dealer. I bought my Jetta from a Toyota dealer. I don't think I'm brave enough to jump in on this one. The first time was stressful enough.

Can't make any money at that price.

Huh. I swear that was $24,999 when I posted it.

well, anyway, one with 73k miles got over $26k at auction 3 weeks ago. You sure that won't make money? Had to be worth more back in Sep 2015, no?

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

kyfdx said:

qbrozen said:

Just searched cars.com within 500 miles of me for audi or vw 3.0 diesels between 09 and 12, and found just 1. 

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/691957317/overview?aff=share_text

Coincidentally enough, at a Toyota dealer. I bought my Jetta from a Toyota dealer. I don't think I'm brave enough to jump in on this one. The first time was stressful enough.

Can't make any money at that price.

Huh. I swear that was $24,999 when I posted it.

well, anyway, one with 73k miles got over $26k at auction 3 weeks ago. You sure that won't make money? Had to be worth more back in Sep 2015, no?

The buyback chart is out. But, didn't see the mileage adjustments.

corvette

There is a 2010 Q7 with 60k on eBay. Dealer has it priced at $29,990, which looks to be about $10,000 above clean retail.

qbrozen

Not sure where you guys are getting your numbers, but a couple of Q7s crossed in Dec with over 60k and got $28k each. One in Chicago in Sept got $23k.

corvette

2010 model year? I got an appraisal from Edmunds TMV. Guess they are a ways off on TDIs.

qbrozen

Yup, 2010s

mjfloyd1

How do we sign up for the Bosch settlement?

http://autoweek.com/article/vw-diesel-scandal/vw-diesel-owners-will-get-cash-compensation-bosch-too

corvette

Nice! I'm betting we will get a notification via mail once the settlement is approved. 

henryn

Wow, the gift that keeps on giving. Another $350, not huge, but unexpected, and I will be happy to get it.

andres3

I will appreciate another $350. That'll pay for about 2 Korean or Chinese tires on a Golf R Saving my pennies. At the end of my Kia lease... I'd love to have the Golf R as the daily driver and the TTS as the weekender/track beast.

xwesx

I took the plunge! Now, I'll just have to see how this pans out.

corvette

A Q7? How cheap did you get it? Year and mileage for the CCBA database?

nyccarguy

So where is that buyback chart?  What do y'all think of this (besides the fact that it is very expensive):

http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=449638409&zip=06901&endYear=2018&pageLayout=list&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=1981&searchRadius=300&offset=30&mmt=[AUDI[Q7[]][]]

2015 Q7 TDI Prestige
16K Miles
asking $55K at an MB Dealer in MD

Auction Figures @qbrozen?

stickguy

well, Wes, that Q7 should be a lot more comfortable for a long tour across the US than an overloaded Forester was.

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

So where is that buyback chart?  What do y'all think of this (besides the fact that it is very expensive):

http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=449638409&zip=06901&endYear=2018&pageLayout=list&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=1981&searchRadius=300&offset=30&mmt=[AUDI[Q7[]][]]

2015 Q7 TDI Prestige
16K Miles
asking $55K at an MB Dealer in MD

Auction Figures @qbrozen?

Only one near those miles had 19k and got $47k

nyccarguy

So $55K seems like a good price. The in service date is 9/12/2015.

Emission Complaint Repair range is between $9,286 - $9,861

Buyback range is $67,369 - $79,342

Keep w/ Emission Modifications Range is $14,289 - $21,837

Carfax says the 1st owner was CORPORATE. Does it still qualify?

nyccarguy

This might work as a buy and hold:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=422674477&zip=06902&modelCode1=Q7&referrer=/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=06902&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=1981&endYear=2018&modelCodeList=Q7&makeCodeList=AUDI&modelCode1=Q7&mmt=%5BAUDI%5BQ7%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&sortBy=distanceASC&makeCode1=AUDI&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=200&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&makeCode1=AUDI&firstRecord=0&endYear=2018&searchRadius=200&makeCode1=AUDI&modelCode1=Q7

2011 Q7 TDI Premium Plus (Gen I)
135,000 miles - asking price $25,000
Buyback range: $37,555 - $41,813

Private seller always seems sketchy to me though.

nyccarguy

Looks like every other Q7 TDI is either new or used with between 50,000 - 65,000 miles.

breld

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

So where is that buyback chart?  What do y'all think of this (besides the fact that it is very expensive):

http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=449638409&zip=06901&endYear=2018&pageLayout=list&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&sortBy=distanceASC&startYear=1981&searchRadius=300&offset=30&mmt=[AUDI[Q7[]][]]

2015 Q7 TDI Prestige
16K Miles
asking $55K at an MB Dealer in MD

Auction Figures @qbrozen?

Only one near those miles had 19k and got $47k

Hmmm - like this one? Or maybe it is this one (carfax says it sold at auction in January).

2015 Q7 TDI Prestige

So $47k at auction and asking $53k? Not horrible. I think the buyer for this VW dealer longs to work for Audi. They have an entire front line of Audis on their used car lot.

breld

Same dealer has this one too:

2014 Q7 TDI Premium Plus

A model year older and twice as many miles for a $11k savings? Not to mention the Prestige vs. Premium Plus.

nyccarguy

Looks like the Q7 I posted from MD is a Premium, not a Prestige Model

corvette

Look what came in the mail today...



Looks like I don't need to do anything.

kyfdx

Got my postcard, as well.

mjfloyd1

I got the post card and an email. Woohoo

andres3

I'm happy to get "UP TO" $350 without having to take any further action, but this notice is early; sounds like we won't see the money for months and months.

xwesx

Still not sure what is wrong with my Q7, but was looking over the settlement agreement again today, and noted this section:

7.2. Class Bridge Warranty During Delay. For Eligible Owners and Eligible Lessees with Generation Two Eligible Vehicles (i) whose original New Vehicle Limited Warranty and/or Powertrain Limited Warranty expired/expires prior to the timely availability of an Emissions Compliant Repair as outlined in Section A and paragraph 3 of Exhibit 1B, and (ii) which are not covered by any other applicable warranty and/or service contract (provided through Volkswagen, Porsche, or any third-party), Volkswagen agrees to provide a Class Bridge Warranty providing coverage and terms mirroring the coverage previously provided by the expired New Vehicle Limited Warranty or Powertrain Limited Warranty. The Class Bridge Warranty shall exclusively apply to covered repairs performed by an Authorized Dealer based on conditions that arose between (a) January 31, 2017, or the expiration date of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty or Powertrain Limited Warranty, whichever is later, and (b) the date that an Emissions Compliant Repair is approved or denied pursuant to Appendix B to the DOJ 3.0-liter Consent Decree. For avoidance of doubt, the benefits set forth in this provision are available only to Class Members who do not opt out. Individuals who opt out of the 3.0-liter Class Action Settlement will not be eligible for the Class Bridge Warranty and will be responsible for payment for any repairs performed by an Authorized Dealer that is not covered by another warranty and/or service contract.

So, that's good news. Unfortunately, I'm not sure when it actually takes effect. I'm thinking it is not likely until after final approval, which is currently scheduled for April (or early May?) time frame. Depending on what looks to be the issue, I will need to make sure I talk with Audi before authorizing work be performed. The settlement states "authorized dealers" only, which I suppose is fine if they want to incur the expense of having the car shipped to their only Alaska dealer. Otherwise, perhaps they'll authorize the local facility to handle it.

stickguy

you are running out of cars. might have to press one of the old trucks into service if you want to get to work!