VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

xwesx

stickguy said:

you are running out of cars. might have to press one of the old trucks into service if you want to get to work!

I really wish you were kidding, stick! I felt a little paranoid when I was using my car in town on Saturday. I kept thinking, "if somebody hits me, I'm going to have to dig out my truck!"

But, reality is that I could get a rental for either of our other cars, and it wouldn't really cost much, if anything. For the Forester, the at-fault driver's insurance would have to pay, and I do have rental insurance on the Q7. We just haven't done that because we don't want to drive up anybody's costs unless it is necessary. We can get by on one for now.

andres3

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

you are running out of cars. might have to press one of the old trucks into service if you want to get to work!

I really wish you were kidding, stick! I felt a little paranoid when I was using my car in town on Saturday. I kept thinking, "if somebody hits me, I'm going to have to dig out my truck!"

But, reality is that I could get a rental for either of our other cars, and it wouldn't really cost much, if anything. For the Forester, the at-fault driver's insurance would have to pay, and I do have rental insurance on the Q7. We just haven't done that because we don't want to drive up anybody's costs unless it is necessary. We can get by on one for now.

Yes, but by letting the at-fault driver off-the-hook, you are being overly kind IMHO.

You are still incurring costs on their behalf, they are just hidden in your depreciation costs (wear and tear, miles on your own vehicle while yours remains in the shop). Also, you are paying insurance for the same amount of vehicles, but with less of them in drive-able condition or on the road.

xwesx

andres3 said:

Yes, but by letting the at-fault driver off-the-hook, you are being overly kind IMHO.

You are still incurring costs on their behalf, they are just hidden in your depreciation costs (wear and tear, miles on your own vehicle while yours remains in the shop). Also, you are paying insurance for the same amount of vehicles, but with less of them in drive-able condition or on the road.

You're not wrong, andres, but stuff happens - we all make mistakes. I look any situation like this: If I wouldn't spend my own money on it, then I'm not going to spend someone else's money either.

I'm going to need a vehicle this weekend in order to bring some furniture up from Palmer, and both of the vehicles that could haul the trailer I'm taking down there are currently out of commission. I'm waiting to hear the diagnosis on the Q7, which I should get today, before finalizing plans; I will likely need to rent a vehicle.

andres3

xwesx said:

andres3 said:

Yes, but by letting the at-fault driver off-the-hook, you are being overly kind IMHO.

You are still incurring costs on their behalf, they are just hidden in your depreciation costs (wear and tear, miles on your own vehicle while yours remains in the shop). Also, you are paying insurance for the same amount of vehicles, but with less of them in drive-able condition or on the road.

You're not wrong, andres, but stuff happens - we all make mistakes. I look any situation like this: If I wouldn't spend my own money on it, then I'm not going to spend someone else's money either.

I'm going to need a vehicle this weekend in order to bring some furniture up from Palmer, and both of the vehicles that could haul the trailer I'm taking down there are currently out of commission. I'm waiting to hear the diagnosis on the Q7, which I should get today, before finalizing plans; I will likely need to rent a vehicle.

OK, that's a good attitude to have and I'm sure some entities are grateful (at-fault driver's insurance company for one). They (Insurance companies like yours) really should have a discount boxed checked for people like you that use the "I wouldn't spend my own money on it" standard for running up bills.

Sandman6472

I figure if the other guy is at fault, their insurance needs to furnish me with the same size vehicle until mine is fully restored. Especially when I'm not at fault, I want to be put back to where I was before the incident whenever possible. Or as close as possible. The stress from it all is enough to handle without having to live with only one vehicle when we normally have two. That's how insurance works, and is supposed to work. But on the other hand, don't gauge the other guys company on unreasonable stuff as that wouldn't be fair either. Just get me back as close as possible so I can move on with the minimal amount of aggravation.
And the beat goes on...!

The Sandman

xwesx

Yeah, well, get this: The at-fault driver's insurance is denying responsibility. They're saying there is no proof that he was making a u-turn, and are characterizing it as if my wife as trying to pass him while he was turning left.

The problem is that there is evidence, and it distinctly disproves this hypothesis. Our insurance company says they'll take it to arbitration. If that isn't successful, though, I'm going to sue them. I'm tired of these big companies and their pompous attitudes. As you said, the stress of the crash and loss of the vehicle is enough. My patience is used up.

corvette

Wes, sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, that is a very common tale. Many if not most auto insurers treat their claims departments as a profit center. 

andres3

xwesx said:

Yeah, well, get this: The at-fault driver's insurance is denying responsibility. They're saying there is no proof that he was making a u-turn, and are characterizing it as if my wife as trying to pass him while he was turning left.

The problem is that there is evidence, and it distinctly disproves this hypothesis. Our insurance company says they'll take it to arbitration. If that isn't successful, though, I'm going to sue them. I'm tired of these big companies and their pompous attitudes. As you said, the stress of the crash and loss of the vehicle is enough. My patience is used up.

It really helps when the at-fault driver is willing to tell the truth. The insurance company reps don't give a damn about the truth. My small claims court case was probably only as successful as it was because although the Insurance company resisted, the actual driver just told the truth and let the judge decide accordingly.

Sandman6472

You tried to be nice and see where it got ya! For some reason, many folks have no guilt feelings and are willing to lie so easily to deflect fault. Hopefully there was a witness or two but many times, just from the point of impact, the accident folks at the police department can tell exactly what happened and who indeed was at fault. Now that this guy's willing to lie through his teeth, all gloves are off. Get yourselves a rental and go after the guy and his insurance company! Sad that one must do that but when folks are willing to tell bald face lies and put your wife's integrity in question, time to step up to the plate. In the end, G-d willing, the truth will come out and justice will be served.
A damn shame that after all the stress and nonsense the wife and kids went through, this jerk is willing to lie about his error. Shame many folks have no moral compass and a bigger shame that your kids have to witness this lousy behavior. Show them that doing the right thing no matter what is what's important here and that lying is never the answer. A big life lesson they will learn from this and it will make them stroner and more compassionate people. Doing the right thing is the best way!
Good luck and do what needs doing here!

The Sandman

xwesx

At this point, I don't know what the at-fault driver told them. At the time, he told both us and the LEO that responded as much as he knew. And, honestly, he didn't really have a clue what really happened because HE WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION. If he had, there would not have been a crash. But, he did say where he was and what he was doing at the time. That corroborated my wife's story about what she observed him to be doing at the time.

So, now I'm following up with the Troopers to get their report (if there was one filed, which there should have been).

28firefighter

Got an email from my local dealer. They're selling and leasing the 2015 fixed TDIs. On a buy it's fixed at $5000 off MSRP with 0% financing for up to 72 months. On a lease it's $8500 off with lease cash - not sure the MF or residual. 

sda

Has anyone heard any feedback on what the repair entailed and any performance and fuel consumption results? I wonder what kind of warranty the fixed units will have. The price seems rich for a 2 year old car.

ruking1

How much more "rich" does it seem to you?

kyfdx

Yeah.. no matter how you slice it, it's a two year old car. $5000 off MSRP? Not nearly enough.

stickguy

Depending on lease terms that could be a cheap deal

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Depending on lease terms that could be a cheap deal

What kind of residuals could they have on a 2015 model, though? I guess they might have a CPO lease program, but those aren't typically all that great.

qbrozen

I have a hard time believing it will be very good. Shot in the dark, but lets say 33.3% residual. MSRP $30k, $10k resid, minus $8500 leaves $11.5k depreciation over 36 months. Almost $320/mo before adding everything else in.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

I have a hard time believing it will be very good. Shot in the dark, but lets say 33.3% residual. MSRP $30k, $10k resid, minus $8500 leaves $11.5k depreciation over 36 months. Almost $320/mo before adding everything else in.

I think if they can sell $30K Jettas for $24K with 0% 72 month financing, they might have a chance. There is definitely some pent up demand. Did they have Jetta TDI wagons in 2015, or were those already finished?

breld

They were Golf Sportwagens by 2015.

kyfdx

breld said:

They were Golf Sportwagens by 2015.

TDIs? Stick-shifts? If so, I could be interested.

ruking1

One of the neatest things about the very small US market share (2.5 to 2.0%) that VW holds are the even smaller "quirky" options. Station wagons, TDI, 6 speed MT's together & or separately are not even close to being popular. Yet VW TDI station wagons 6 speed MT'sa command a premium , new & on the used market.

kyfdx

Local dealer showing the $8500 lease bonus in conjunction with a 24 month lease. Can't wait to see the numbers on that. Unfortunately, none of the dealers are showing them in inventory, so hard to know what they have.

Looks like I might be hitting the lots, tomorrow.

kyfdx

Okay, found a couple listed... There are a few wagon, stick shifts. Also, Passats Beetles, Golfs. Very few Jettas, surprisingly

Michaell

I was at the VW dealer yesterday, getting warranty work done on my Jetta. At the back of the lot there were a row of TDI's - 8 or 10 of them. Looked like Jettas and Passats, mostly. No Golfs, Beetles or Wagons that I saw.

breld

kyfdx said:

Local dealer showing the $8500 lease bonus in conjunction with a 24 month lease. Can't wait to see the numbers on that. Unfortunately, none of the dealers are showing them in inventory, so hard to know what they have.

Looks like I might be hitting the lots, tomorrow.

Well, as you know, if the lease incentives are that much better than purchase, may as well lease it, and if you like it, you can always simply buy it out.

ruking1

Despite what I may or may not think of them (used small car TDI's), the fact of the matter, they are being released in VERY VERY small market/s, both in PVF (25% or less small cars) & huge yearly used gas car sales markets. Thhttp://finance.yahoo.com/news/holds-power-today-oil-market-180000976.htmlese are cars that range from models forced to be made: nobody wanting to buy, to flat out over production. So it appears they are & have to be priced to move: both in a less desired small car category,& in huge used car (falling pricing/s) market/s.

To give some sense of scale, BOOMING 2016 new car sales are roughly @ 17.5 M. There appears to be YUGE 2017 new car inventories So adjusted 2017 yearly estimates are @ 17M Used cars are @ app 33 M per year. So if you use 500,000 " fixed " used TDI's as a yardstick, the potential BEST case scenario sales are less than 1%.

Here is an underlying truth to the environmental conservatives' 50 + years of "oil shortage B& CS" http://finance.yahoo.com/news/holds-power-today-oil-market-180000976.html

It's really time to stop the apocalyptic Hollywood scary movie fictions masquerading as the truth.

The real environmental conservatives answer to all this CA total abundance of water was almost total waste !!

andres3

I'd be curious enough to want to test drive a Golf TDI Wagon 6-speed manual. Multiple odd ball things for Americans rolled up into one vehicle. I should have test driven one when it was new.

kyfdx

Well.. my local dealer has two 2015 Golf Sportwagens with sticks. Both are the base S model.
$25735 MSRP
$1735 discount
$5000 incentive
$19000 final price
0% APR/72 months

Unfortunately, they haven't had the fix completed, so no test drives.
They are supposed to call me when it's done (sometime this week).

They also had a Golf SEL Hatchback stick (sticker $30K+) with a comparable discount, but a guy was putting a deposit on it, as I arrived.

Plenty of Jetta and Passat sedans, but all automatics.

28firefighter

Any idea what they are offering in terms of leases (residuals and interest rates)?

ruking1

Just for discussion purposes, ( I would) start at the MSRP $ minus - normal 2 to 3 year depreciation. The final price of $19,000 should be significantly less.

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Any idea what they are offering in terms of leases (residuals and interest rates)?

I had another dealer read it off a sheet of paper to me, but not sure how accurate he was.

On the wagon, 47% residual for 24/12. $8500 incentive (vs. $5000 for purchase)
He said the MF varied by trim level, but on the S it was .00105 (lower for other trims)
I won't vouch for those numbers, though.. just what he told me.

By the time you pay the acquisition fee and tax on the payment, plus lease finance charges, then tax again on the buyout, and a loan interest on the buyout, you'd probably break even on that $3500 extra. If you came out ahead, it would be less than $1000. Of course, you get the option to walk away after 24 months.

Doing the math, I was looking at $269/mo. for a 72 month payment or $227/mo. for a 24/12 lease, with nothing due at signing but first payment.

ruking1

So are those 1,250 miles per mo ?

kyfdx

ruking1 said:

So are those 1250 miles per mo ?

ruking1 said:

So are those 1250 miles per mo ?

No... 12K/yr. 1000 miles/mo.
15K/yr would add about $21/mo.

corvette

Not a great deal. I don't need one but I like the Passat and would consider one if it were truly a fire-sale price. 

28firefighter

I was in the same boat, so I pinged a couple of dealers locally. A 2015 Passat TDI SEL (MSRP just under $35k) I was quoted a zero down lease anywhere from $449 to $501 inclusive of tax on a 24/10 lease.

Insanity.

kyfdx

I only checked into the Golf wagon. $227/mo. for a 24 month lease on a $25.7K MSRP vehicle is really, really cheap, actually.

Hard to match that.

28firefighter

Not bad, but certainly not a fire sale. Not cheap enough to get me to go out and get one.

kyfdx

The real value is for high mileage drivers. Just like with most diesels.

sda

Has the warranty been enhanced or extended? I would be a little nervous not knowing if the 'fix' would be reliable.

kyfdx

sda said:

Has the warranty been enhanced or extended? I would be a little nervous not knowing if the 'fix' would be reliable.

I think it comes with the standard new car warranty for the 2015 model. (starting at sale date).
I did see a blurb on one dealer's website about an 11 year 156K mile warranty. I'm guessing that is some sort of extended emissions warranty, on top of the standard 3/36. (probably an extra 8yr./120K miles on something).

They were allowed to put them on sale this past Friday, but none of them have the fix completed, yet. Evidently, it's just a software update on the 2015.

andres3

kyfdx said:

sda said:

Has the warranty been enhanced or extended? I would be a little nervous not knowing if the 'fix' would be reliable.

I think it comes with the standard new car warranty for the 2015 model. (starting at sale date).
I did see a blurb on one dealer's website about an 11 year 156K mile warranty. I'm guessing that is some sort of extended emissions warranty, on top of the standard 3/36. (probably an extra 8yr./120K miles on something).

They were allowed to put them on sale this past Friday, but none of them have the fix completed, yet. Evidently, it's just a software update on the 2015.

I wonder if tuners can start selling "stock" tunes. In theory, it shouldn't void your warranty because it is an original stock tune.

corvette

  

I'd want more power than the TDI produces in stock form. 

ruking1

236# ft in the 2.0 L is pretty hard to top in gasser trim without a lot of expensive $$'s modifications. But the 2.1 L puts down 369 # ft. The 3.0 posts a range of 406 # ft to 458# ft. Indeed, you would be hard-pressed to get its segments competitive, but gas power equivalents. To wit, its takes a 5.3 L gas engine to make 383 # ft fuel mileage, in comparison to a 3.0 L 's 406 # ft, Fuel mileage is abysmal in comparison to diesel. It's even MORE abysmal if "flex fuel" is the choice.

So the question becomes, how much more? @ what costs?

The 2001 Corvette Z06 posts 385 # ft torque. Withu a lot of brouhaha, some "cold air" vendors were touting gobs more # ft of torque with BIG $ ($500- $1,000 example) systems. Turns out that notion was busted by the 15# ft (400# ft) by a CHEAP 2002 oem air filter cover! If one did not want to spring $25. for the OEM air filter cover, two or three cable ties would have done the trick.

corvette

The 2.0 feels poky at lower rpms. It's decent once you get the revs up, but if you need acceleration, you have to plan ahead. 

andres3

corvette said:

  

I'd want more power than the TDI produces in stock form. 

There are tunes for that as well! I know the turn of the Century Beetle TDI loaner I had from the indy shop was quite sprightly and I 'm sure was tuned.

ruking1

Below 1,800 rpm? I would expect so! It does not act, nor run the same as a like model gasser. You need to define what rpm full torque comes on! There is an rpm sweet spot range. Much higher rpm's really do not help your issue much. Diesels have never been naught to 60 stormers, nor are they designed to do that. IF that/those IS/are the expectation/s, don't buy!

Indeed, I read an article where gasoline naught to 60 barnstormers, like the Corvette have only about 90 runs before one can expect some sort of expensive $$ break downs. But then if you're into tire shredding, what's another two grand ($2k) on up of YOUR money?

andres3

ruking1 said:

Below 1,800 rpm? I would expect so! You need to define what rpm full torque comes on! Diesels have never been naught to 60 stormers. Indeed I read an article where gasoline naught to 60 barnstormers, like the Corvette have only about 90 runs before one can expect some sort of expensive $$ break down.

I heard that Nissan dishonored warranties for the GT-R because of the use of launch control. Apparently the car had a feature you were not supposed to actually use.

kyfdx

corvette said:

The 2.0 feels poky at lower rpms. It's decent once you get the revs up, but if you need acceleration, you have to plan ahead. 

I'm going to guess that a lot of that is the weird action from the DSG transmission. It was like a time delay on the A3 that I had.

Got a call from the salesperson at my local dealership. They will have two of the cars repaired by tomorrow, and I'm going out to drive them.

Base S Sportwagen with manual (blue over black leatherette) $25,735 MSRP ($19,000 sale price)
SEL 4-door hatch with manual (black over black/gray leather) $30,210 MSRP ($23,135 sale price)

Both have 0%, 72 months financing.

I think I'd enjoy the loaded hatchback more, but the wagon will probably hold it's value a lot better. Stick shift diesel wagons will be in demand, I think. The one thing holding me back (other than I don't really need a car), is that I don't drive enough to worry about fuel costs. Now, if I could get my wife to buy one, that would be a bonus!

I've been doing the math on a 24 month lease, assuming the rates are .00105 MF and 47% residual on the wagon. I think I come out a little bit ahead, if I finance the buyout, but if I just pay cash for the buyout price and ignore opportunity cost on the money, I'm probably $1500 ahead on the lease.

corvette

Are you keeping the ZHP? 

breld

Tough choice @kyfdx, assuming you like one or both of them enough to purchase one. A manual wagon is always cool, but an SEL hatch definitely has nice features, including upgraded seats.