Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
I got my '08 for $22k or so, and it's a power folding hard top, Touring model with the Sport package. List price was near $30k.
You just wait for the end of the model year, they've been known to put $5000 cash on the hood.
I imagine it's the same for the RX8, except I can't find any locally, so maybe the bargains came and went and they sold the few they had.
One "trick" that racers use with rotary engines is to put 1/2 ounce of racing/break-in oil into their gas tank to help with the seals and lubrication. Of course, this is NG for the cat and it won't pass smog. But they also run them at red line or near it more often than any of us would.
Yes, seals can be a problem. But that's not a major issue with the new engines as long as the right oil is used and you don't lug the engine. The Boxster engine is also designed to be run hard and unless the pressures are high enough, oil won't properly get into the seals. Since most Americans tend to lug their engines, own automatics, and spend inordinate amounts of time in traffic jams, the engines (specifically the intermediate shaft bearing on the Porsche and the apex seals on the Mazda) eat their seals.
The issue is that the EPA has made it illegal to sell oil at normal retailers/etc that is high enough in zinc and phosphorous additive as of about 5 years ago. 1200ppm is the new maximum and in a couple of years, it will be dropped to 800ppm. I know about this issue as I had a 1967 Mercedes at the time of the first switch-over (~2006) and within three oil changes, the engine had died. 40 years and it was worn so badly in a dozen areas in just 8K miles that the entire engine wasn't even usable as a core. Rotary and high rpm engines (S2000, Bosxter, etc) require 1400-1600ppm, and in the rest of the world, this is what you'll find on most shelves as 1400-1600ppm is a nice sweet spot that over 50 years of analysis and technology has verified/found to be ideal.
It's become a huge deal with classic car owners who have to buy special oil or run synthetic and hope the seals are compatible. (the seals and oil system on the RX-8 are not compatible with synthetic and Mazda doesn't recommend synthetic)
So why the change?
The EPA and CARB and other agencies want older cars off the roads at any cost, so they are requiring manufacturers to make oil that is known to destroy older engines (the oil is cleaner and your cat won't wear out as quickly, though). Since most of these engines are already 10+ years old, shortening their remaining life by 75% probably won't be noticed. ie - 150K car dies at 175K instead of 250K - person just buys a new car and thinks their old car was junk/about to die anyways.
The compromise due to the enormous angst by classic car owners who got blind-sided by this is for the EPA to allow 1200ppm to be sold as "classic car" or "high mileage" oil. You always want to use this oil, even in a new car, as it has more anti-wear additives and proper zinc levels. Unless your car is very new, that is, and is designed for synthetic only. The issue is if your engine was designed before ~2004 or so or is based upon an older 1990s design. You can run semi-synthetic in most cases, but rotary engines are a special exception.
Final note - some dealers and manufacturers ship ALL of their cars with synthetic due to back room marketing deals with oil makers. Even when the design is incompatible with it. In some cases, you have to dump the oil and change back to semi-synthetic when you buy it. (the dealership won't do it for you). A good example of this is Toyota. The 4 cylinder engines in about half of their vehicles are based off of the 22R that dates back to the 70s. Changes have been made, but it's NG to run synthetic in what is essentially a modernized tractor engine (of course, this is also why they last forever )
Sounds rather like a conspiracy theory. Do I need to go find my
tinzincfoil hat?ExxonMobile says the "phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment." (link)
Reminds me of that Crosley I saw at the Labor Day parade last year. The visible emissions on that thing were so bad, the EPA really should require it be a trailer queen.
You have to think of government as a shotgun aimed in the general direction of its objective, with massive collateral and unintended damage.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/248910/
How many, well, who's to say for sure. But it exists.
http://wot.motortrend.com/writing-on-the-wall-mazda-rx8-sales-to-end-in-us-7572.- html
At the end of the run of NA Miatas, they had a bunch of leftover 1997 models.
So there was no 1998 model in the USA. The NB debuted as a 1999.
For 1998 they sold left over 1997 models. They lasted until the new car arrived.
Wanna know what's really weird? We got a new 2009 Subaru in the first half of 2008, because it came early.
A year later, I bought a left over 2008 Miata, I think it was March or so.
So our 2009 model is actually a year older than our 2008 model. LOL
No worries, I'm not even sure if I believe me.
ExxonMobile says the "phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment."
It does burn cleaner and your cat will last longer. The part about CARB and the EPA knowing that it's too low for older engine designs and simply not caring is also true. Remember, these are the same idiots that are doing everything humanly possible to keep diesel cars off of our roads. In the insane rush to have cleaner and cleaner cars, they are simply ignoring the secondary effects of their crazy policies.
And, of course, they ARE screwing with us as well. Not all conspiracies are crazy.
I used to have an old 1987 4Runner. Great thing to stomp around in and have fun with. But I noticed something odd the last three years that I owned it. The allowable limits on the smog checks were going *down*, despite the official wording stating that older cars would be allowed to pollute more as they age (check the web site). Last year, right before I sold it, I had to get it smogged again. The limits were lowered again (net effect was 30% lower in 3 years!) to lower than what was required when it was brand new in 87 (!). I passed by .01% and decided that it was better to sell it to an off-roader out of state, as passing the next time would require a miracle.
When it comes to the EPA and CARB, trust me, crap like this exists. I have the paperwork to prove it.
I can't speak for California, lol.
That thousands of people with classic cars had to rebuild their engines and professional racers had numerous instances of engines self-destructing also fell on deaf ears. It's not like the oil companies WANT to make a bad product. But if you are forced to take out protective additives from your product by government fiat, then what can you do?
http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/trainingcenter/tech/newoiloldcar.html
It's a real problem. They simply don't care.
EDIT : take note of this part of the article:
Lower “Zinc” oils work just fine in modern production car engines with overhead cams, and roller lifters. These modern engines don’t rev past 5,000 RPM.
Rotary engines constantly rev past 5K. So do many smaller engines in Porsches and many sports cars.
The RX-8's engine has a rev limiter set at 9400rpm.
The S2000 has a rev limiter set at 8000rpm.
They both go past 5K almost every time you drive it.
Also, from that article on the RX-8 being phased out:
Our Japan correspondent has reported that an RX-7 is in development, it will be rotary powered and should arrive sometime in calendar year 2013.
The engine should be a new design made to use synthetic oil as well.
Any chance you'd post a pic of the Shinari concept vehicle? It's a bit over the top, but I like it.
I've seen loads of concept pictures, but first one I posted one is probably closer to the actual vehicle after it gets through the marketing department. The actual vehicles are always a bit more understated than the artists want.
I'd just call it the Mazda R and put 300hp+ engine in it. Just make it stupidly fast and forget about the yuppies and economy.
But those rules were put in place to protect catalytic converters. Are you suggesting we wipe out millions of catalytic converters so that a few guys can go racing?
I don't think that's going to happen.
So....Use a zinc additive. Sell your old car. Buy better camshafts. These guys are racing 50 year old cars and want to blame the EPA for ruining their sport?
Gimme a break. Deal with it boys!
Besides, bad camshafts were a plague long before they dropped the zinc content. Now everybody with a 30 year old car with flat lobes wants to blame the government.
Chevy cams from the 70s, every camshaft ever made for a Volvo 122 and 140 and 160s----all bad metallurgy.
The problem is that The Government required all manufacturers to warranty their catalytic converters to 120K miles. This meant changing the oil chemistry. And lower the levels of additives in the oil to where it hardly does anything at this point.
We want our phosphorous back!! :surprise:
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
What are the best manuals that you can get at that price? Is there an entry level Infiniti with a manual for that?
My only question is, "Is there even a runner-up?"
But if it *has* to be new, then you have three options, really.
A base model 1 series
A base model CTS
A base model C class
But all of them are base models and JUST at 32K (best prices I could find online)
With the RX-8 soon to be gone, there's simply nothing worth getting in the mid 20K range. You have to spend more than 30K and get a much heavier vehicle. Maybe the only exception would be a Civic Si if you could find one, that is. But the interior just makes you want to cry it's so boy racer and full of plastic.
Fact is, it is political suicide for *any* political party to try and roll back emissions regulations in any significant (non-symbolic) way. The oil companies will just have to put their chemists to work, and the automakers put their metallurgists to work. This is 2011 and they'll have to deal with reality.
It's not like the gov'mint is banning manual transmissionis for "safety reasons". THAT makes no sense. But emissions regulations do have a more accessible goal.
I've driven any number of BMWs, the CTS, and a rare manual equipped C-Class, and as good as the might be, none of them have a shift and clutch feel anywhere near as enjoyable as a Miata. Would I refuse to own/drive any of these cars due to a less than Miataesque shifting experience? Not a chance.
FWIW, while I have yet to drive a new 2012 Civic Si, the shifter in the previous vintage did nothing for me; it felt very atypical for a Honda shifter.
But the new gen has the 6 speed manual direct from the TSX. I drove a manual TSX and I thought it was smooth, precise, and very nice....
You can get an IS250 (which is a small V6, by the way) with a manual.
Oddly enough I think the G25 does not!
The IS-F proves it's a capable platform, so hopefully the F division has more input on all models for the soon to come redesign.
I just checked, and the Acura TSX w/ six-speed is 30,495 MSRP. No tech package, and it's the 4-cyl, but that's exactly the car I bought in March of '08, and it suits me fine, except for the FWD. I happened to notice that these days, along with the beak I don't like, they've gotten rid of anything resembling a color for the exterior -- they offer black, white, gray & silver. Oh boy.
Mine's red, and the transmission feels great.
These are no-brainers as they are used for rally racing and aftermarket support and parts to do literally anything that you want are a mouse click away.
I would have also added the Volvo S60 to the list, but since they dropped the manual this year for the U.S. market, it's not making the list. And it's a shame, too, since Volvos actually have very good manuals.
I've noticed that is happening a lot. Many cars will really only offer one or two real colors (usually red or blue).
Even then, the blue is a dark blue that almost looks like black. Then you've got silver, dark silver, white, gray, dark gray, black, metallic gray, pearl gray, gray, gray, and beige.
Take some risks, guys!
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/28/buy-a-turbo-for-your-miata-get-a-free-goat/
Yeah I know - kill joy....
Agreed, the IS250 even with manual is a real yawn. However the IS350 rips, even though it is only available with a conventional slushbox automatic.
IMO, superchargers work a bit better in day to day driving than turbos if you have a small engine as you get better torque at low RPMS. There are supercharger kits for the Miata (in addition to turbos). Only $3-5K, typically.
Roughly a 75-80hp gain for either a supercharger to turbo.(but more HP for the turbo, bit more torque for the supercharger, as expected) 21K for the base model, plus $5K in mods (don't forget to put in a racing clutch to deal with the extra HP) equals a $26K monster with over 250HP.
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/veloster/2012/2012-hyundai-veloster-first-ride- - - -and-video.html
40 mpg hwy
6 speed manual
Consumer Reports even likes it. And they say the rear visibility is actually ok--although the view that went with that didn't make the case very well to me. They didn't test the manual. And CU surprised me a couple of years ago by having a whole little article about why manuals are better--if you know how to drive them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7fzifIIvY
the cruze LS is definitely gutless in 6th. and all the other gears too. dashboard says ~35 mpg on tank #2. 40 mpg on long highway cruises seems possible @ 55 or 65, but not at 'real' highway speeds!
i used to own a minicooper CVT but was not the primary driver, was driving ~48 mpg VW TDIs at the time. :}
i thought the mini got horrible mpg for such a small car: rarely above 26 mpg, much highway driving... amazing handling. highway ride not comfortable.
It can't cost a lot - it's the V6 in the Camry, RAV4, and Sienna.
So they could offer a 266hp base engine, and then the DI 300+hp in upper models.
And I would switch strategies - offer the manual only if you step up to the more powerful engine. So they'd have an IS350 and maybe an IS350 F-Sport model, something like that.
The flagship IS-F above both of those.
The platform has potential, if they want to exploit it.
If someone wants a Veloster, they're willing to give up the extra space and doors to get something a bit more fun, and to them the smaller size is probably appealing.