The Future Of The Manual Transmission

benjaminh

Yeah! That's what I'm talkin about! Nice program. Shift happens. Like it.

OK Shifty--now is your chance to trade in your old one on a brand new Mini. Let them fix the clutch on the old one and sell it for you. What do you say?

http://www.miniusa.com/#/manual-m

Here's one in "Pepper White" for just $20,600 at the Sacramento Mini dealer (manual, of course):

http://www.niellomini.com/VehicleDetails/new-2011-MINI-Cooper_Hardtop--SACRAMENT- - - O-CA/1208515103

Plus they have 3.9 financing....

Or here's a turbo manual in a nice shade of dark blu for 24,450:

http://www.niellomini.com/VehicleDetails/new-2011-MINI-Cooper_S_Hardtop--SACRAME- NTO-CA/1048357583

Mr_Shiftright

I like the color but it's not an "S" and I'm not the librarian to drive a base MINI. :P

I COULD install a lightweight racing flywheel (MUCH cheaper than the OEM dual mass) but I have heard that light flywheels have their own set of issues that I may not like very much.

benjaminh

24.5 ain't bad for a car like that. I bet they'll give you some trade in on yours even though your clutch is toast....

Here are the options on this one:

WHITE TOP -inc: white mirror caps (N/A w/850 Paint or 2RV Alloy Wheels in Black) (382)
DUAL PANE PANORAMIC PWR SUNROOF (403)
CENTER ARMREST (473)
RAIN-SENSING WINDSHIELD WIPERS -inc: auto headlights (521)
MINI CONNECTED -inc: voice-command, comfort Bluetooth, USB/iPod adapter, smartphone integration, Combox controller (Req: 473 Center Armrest) (6FP)
ALL-SEASON TIRES (N/A w/2RE 17" Web-Spoke Alloy Wheels or 2RW 17" Black Web Spoke Alloy Wheels) *Replaces tires not recommended for winter use with all-season tires* (927)

Mr_Shiftright

Bah! Mindless silly gadgets. I'll take the turbo, the clutch pedal and the center armrest and they can throw the bluetooth and rain-sensors and all that clutter into the parts pin for all I care.

benjaminh

Yeah, gotta agree with you on that. Auto wipers? Can't anybody tell when it's raining anymore?

Reminds me of when someone asked if I had power doors on my Mazda5 minivan. I didn't say it, but for the love of peet can't you open a door? And actually the Mazda5 sliding doors can be opened and closed with *one* finger. Literally. And it won't even strain that one finger. Compare that to a VW BUS from 69. Now that was a work out.

But what about that dual sunroof. Almost like a convertible then, but without the hassle. Are you a little tempted?

And actually bluetooth is helpful if you're ever on the phone in the car. Maybe you're one of the last pure people who absolutely never does it. But if you do it even 5 minutes a month (about what I do), being able to keep your hands on the wheel, and shift, and just talk is actually handy.

Mr_Shiftright

Only the front half of the sunroof actually opens. If the back opened, the tailgate would break it when lifted.

I don't talk on the phone while driving. Bad idea I think.

Besides, I have a manual 6-speed transmission--I have WORK to do when I'm driving.

xwesx

Maybe you're one of the last pure people who absolutely never does it.

I don't talk on the phone while driving. Bad idea I think.

You're not alone there. I don't even own a cell phone.

andys120

Auto wipers? Can't anybody tell when it's raining anymore?

I find that lots of people do not understand the value of rain-sensing wipers, probably because they don't have them. They must be turned on manually, otherwise they'd be wrecked going thru car washes but once they are they adjust to the amount of rainfall and cycle accordingly freeing the driver from having to fiddle with 'em during changing conditions (the only kind we have in New England).

Funny thing is my Bimmer came with them when I bought it but I didn't realize until I noticed that they didn't wipe with a regular cadence.

I also discovered that it had a heated steering wheel by accident, another great option to have in the North Country.

shipo

Agreed; when I first got the auto wipers on my 1999 328i (5-Speed) I did so because they were part of a package of other goodies I did want. My feeling about them changed the first time I drove on a day with intermittent showers, road spray, and sunlight. If I get my way I'll have them on every car I drive from here on in.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, pshaw!......Just set the old intermittent wiper function and you're done. You don't need another computer with a seeing eye and multiple sensors to further complicate a car. I wouldn't pay ten cents for this option myself. It's just another nanny button scolding you. "Mr Rain Sensor knows what's best for you".

puffin1

to teach a person to drive a six speed? I took my sister over to the church parking lot and it was a disaster. I was cringing all the time. My poor car.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm sure all you guys have a different theory on how to do this. I won't say much except to offer my suggestion that if a person knows HOW a clutch works (that is, what is happening when they step on the clutch pedal) they seem to "get it" faster. So either a good video from U-Tube or even something as simple as holding up two dinner plates, and showing how they come together when the clutch pedal is brought up, and are pushed apart when the clutch pedal is depressed. Don't worry about explaining "neutral"--that comes later, or never. :P

colin_l

I haven't taught anyone in a long time, and probably won't ever again! :P

But here's what I would do.

Sit in a parking lot in neutral with the engine running. Push the clutch in and out to get a feel for the pedal action. No shifting. Do this at least three times, but more like ten would be better.

Now push the clutch in and select 1st gear. SLOWLY let the clutch out until the car starts to want to move forward. Do not touch the gas pedal at all.

It is very likely that they will stall a few times. They might also take off. Both are fine. Get back to a stop and begin again.

This first step teaches the most critical skill-- knowing the engagement zone of the clutch pedal. It is not an on/off switch and treating it like one makes learning a lot tougher, and the shifts a lot rougher.

After they have this down, actually let them take off using the accelerator and clutch in concert. This is the second critical skill, balancing clutch and gas modulation.

ateixeira

for the love of peet can't you open a door?

I will defend power doors on minivans for a few reasons:

* you're often carrying a kid or child seat
* you often carry out sleeping kids, even 12 year old ones
* open it early to let the heat out on a 94 degree day
* for safety, you can turn off the rear controls and only open the curb side

shipo

"Oh, pshaw!......Just set the old intermittent wiper function and you're done."

Nonsense!

Intermittent wipers are worthless in the highly variable rain environments we get up here in New England. Given how often one must fiddle with the control so that you're not wiping dry glass and still wiping fast enough, I've often found myself turning off the intermittent wipers and going with the manual single-pass toggle.

Until you've had auto-wipers in this kind of weather you truly cannot appreciate what a nice convenience they are.

ateixeira

Just set the old intermittent wiper function

Remember when intermittent meant your Lucas electronics only worked once in a while?

ateixeira

I like Colin's method of finding the engagement zone...but I'll add this. Teach them to:

* always start in 1st from a dead stop
* take 90 degree turns in 2nd
* take highway exit ramps in 3rd

Pretty good rule of thumb for a novice.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh great, so now I have a computer and a seeing eye and a mile of wiring to help me wipe the windshield when it's too dry. :P

How about a sun sensor to open the sunroof?

All this stuff adds weight, and when you're out of warranty, dreadful expense.

I just don't like anything automatic happening in FRONT of my eyes.

I've already re-wired my car to turn OFF traction control and automatic door locking OFF when I start the engine (as well as having automatic windows UP as well as DOWN at all times) . Fortunately, I can just shut off the rain-sensors permanently. I do use them, however, for one thing---rain spray from tractor trailers after a rain, because I'm passing a truck and have my hands full. So I'm not a complete Luddite.

Would I pay extra for this feature? No.

shipo

Rain sensing wiper don't work that way; the sensor shoots a beam of infra-red light at the inside of the windshield at an oblique angle and then measures how much of the light is reflected back to a sensor. If the glass is dry then the reading is high; as the glass gets wetter and wetter the reading drops, and when said drop hits some preset (by the driver) threshold the wipers cycle one time.

The system works very well and as I said earlier, I would like it to be on every car I have in the future.

As for weight, yeah, it probably adds an ounce or two to the overall weight of a car; I can live with that.

lemmer

I wonder what happens if it breaks. Can you still use your wipers the old fashioned way? Still use them set intermittently?

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, in theory, except mine wipes a nearly dry windshield. This is why you never see German stereo systems in Best Buy. :P

These systems are "shotgun accurate" at best.

shipo

The dynamic wiping is no more complex mechanically than regular intermittent wiping. Said another way, I don't see how the MTBF could be any different. Either way, the standard wipers should continue working.

FWIW, the only cars I've ever owned that had the intermittent wipers fail also gradually lost their regular wipers as well. The problem turned out to be corrosion on the relay terminals.

shipo

"Yeah, in theory, except mine wipes a nearly dry windshield."

Does your car not have a sensitivity adjustment? I know that on both of the cars I've had with rain-sensors, I could adjust them to be overly sensitive (like yours) all of the way down to being so lazy they might wipe once every ten seconds in a heavy downpour.

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm....don't think so, but I'll check. That's a good suggestion.

Next project is to replace the transmission fluid with a REDLINE project, to see if I can get it to shift smoother. It's a bit notchy, to say the least.

ruking1

Yeah around here I dont like the wipers flapping unless it is really raining. Most times a good coating of RAINX does the trick, aka no wipers @ all.

lilengineerboy

Yeah around here I dont like the wipers flapping unless it is really raining. Most times a good coating of RAINX does the trick, aka no wipers all.

I've had very good luck with Rain-X as well. Especially in the winter when the snow and slush crud gets on the windshield. It just seems like it stays clean longer and its easier to clean. And in the summer storms, it sheds water very effectively. Oh and the bugs come off easier. Okay Okay its the greatest thing since sliced bread second only to world peace and an end to hunger. Maybe not that good, but I do like the stuff.

ruking1

LOL! I agree. Around here, it lasts a max of 1 month. It also seems to make the wiper "float" if you will. It does not feel like you are SCRAPING the windshield.

fintail

I love Rain-X, but in my area where for 8 months we have a steady boring light rain so much of the time, it doesn't last very long either. I have also noticed how it seems like the wiper isn't making hard contact.

My car also has automatic wipers (or a singular one, I should say) - I use the feature in about half of rainy situations, at other times it cycles too often and bugs me.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep that's what I was trying to say---rain sensing wipers really bug me for some reason. I find the process very irritating. Perhaps it's the randomness of it. It reminds me, obliquely, of a "hunting" automatic transmission, or an alarm beep going off randomly.

shipo

Did you ever find out if your rain-sensing wipers have a sensitivity adjustment?

wwest

Rain sensing wipers are now being used to "pre-load", lightly apply the brakes, so you don't get a BIG surprise when you really need those brakes.

fintail

I've seen in more than one crash test (or accidental crash by the self piloting S60) that the wipers engage in a crash. Maybe that's connected.

wwest

Or the windshield cracked/broke/shattered in such a way as to trigger the rain sensor....

Mr_Shiftright

No, apparently no sensitivity adjustment that I can find. I did find out though that my headlight lens power wash system is working!

andys120

no sensitivity adjustment that I can find

That's odd considering that my 11 y/o BMW has a fine sensitivity adjustment.
I drove about 250 miles in changing conditions Saturday night, what a godsend the RSWs were.

Mr_Shiftright

One man's heaven is another man's hell, as they say.

You know, if your windshield wiper controls were in the trunk, I'd agree with you, but based on how easy they are to manipulate, I don't even think about adjusting them manually as needed.

RSW are just part of the gadget conspiracy to take our clutch pedals away from us!!

shipo

I look at it the other way around; items like Automatic Climate Control and Rain Sensing Wipers allow us to focus on the task at hand (i.e. drivin' the freakin' car) instead of endlessly fiddling with controls.

wwest

Automatic climate controls by NipponDenso, Denso US, are the PITTS...!

Mr_Shiftright

Or, it allows the airplane pilot to doze off while on automatic pilot. :P

heydudes

I love the manual tranny in my 2001 Lincoln LS. Never had a problem in almost 140,000 miles, knock wood. Much more reliable that slush box and far more interesting to drive. I only wish it had an overdrive gear (it ends at 1:1) to improve highway mileage, which is about 25 at 75-80 mph.

Unfortunately, recent Mustang news implies that Ford has forgotten how to build manual transmissions that actually shift into gear. Seems like you'd really have to work hard to build in a problem like that. Is that story here on Edmunds? I haven't looked.

ruking1

The one that cracked me up was the incident where both the Pilot and Co- pilot were surfing the internet and over shot their runway (landing) approach. :P

shipo

"Automatic climate controls by NipponDenso, Denso US, are the PITTS...!"

Is that so; based upon what criteria?

shipo

"Or, it allows the airplane pilot to doze off while on automatic pilot." :P

Variable pitch props not withstanding, I can't say I've ever heard of an airplane with a manual transmission. :P

Mr_Shiftright

Not per se, but having flown in a Super Cub in the mountains of Alaska, I can tell you that all arms and legs are very busy. :P

shipo

Let's see; throttle, mixture, prop/rpm, altitude, airspeed, manifold pressure, direction, MOUNTAIN!, throttle, stick, rudder, prop...

Yeah, I can see how that would be a busy cockpit.

sarastro

I'm just an old-fashioned gal from Detroit who has NEVER bought a US-made car. I recently went looking for a small luxury car to replace my 2001 Mercedes C240. (In 2001 it was the first MB sedan with manual brought into the US in 15 years... beautiful to look at, fun to drive, but all roads lead to the service department.)

The 2011 Lexus brochure says that a manual is standard equipment for the IS250, but when I got to the dealership I was told there was a 6-8 month wait. This had nothing to do with the tsunami, just the way it is. Some "standard."

Manuals are still out there though. The Acura TSX and TL, Audi A4 Quattro, BMW 3-Series and Buick Regal all come with manuals. No, that is NOT a mistake, I did mean Buick Regal. It's built on an Opel platform.

I signed the contract on the Accura TSX day before yesterday and am hoping the dealer can come up with black on black this week. The BMW is very nice and I would have bought it except that it has no spare tire and no place to put one. Maybe I should start a forum on spare tires....

shipo

That issue has been well discussed:

tturedraider, "BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires" #1, 2 Nov 2005 5:44 pm

thegreyone

Considering the amount of BUGS that end up on my windshield after driving on the highways here in Alberta during a typical summer, I'd say that rain sensing wiper would be a DANGER... if they go on automatically when I least expect it, it could BLURR my vision while traveling at 110 km/h and while being temporarily blinded by that I'd be panicking and trying to turn on the windshield washers that hopefully have some fluid left in the reservoir. NO THANKS... too much liability as far as I am concerned. (Can this feature be turned OFF?)

What do you guys think?

shipo

Rain sensing wipers are no different from regular wipers in that Off still means Off.

The only functional difference between the two wiper types is that instead of having Off, some number of intermittent selections, Low, and High, you have Off, some number of rain-sensing sensitivity selections, Low and High.

Make sense?

stever

What's worse is riding as a passenger watching the co-pilot stick go all over and seems like there's a flap control over your head too (two seater, one behind the other, so you really aren't sure what the pilot is messing around with). And seeing the mountain off the wing. :shades: Come to think of it, my first flight at ~16 was in a two seater crop duster with a similar setup.

In manual transmission news, the new Mustangs are having shifting issues.

"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is looking into consumer complaints alleging an unexpected inability to shift into gear on 2011-'12 Ford Mustangs equipped with manual transmissions."

2011-'12 Ford Mustang Probed by Feds (Inside Line)