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The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    nah, the car has a wimpy engine--I have no use for cars like that.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    155hp ain't bad for a compact like that.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,680
    That's true, but if we're looking to make a generalization, it shouldn't matter which car it is as long as the other variables (such as HP) are taken out of the equation.

    All other factors being equal, is the MT cheaper to insure than the AT? Wasn't that the premise?
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's "okay" but I'm not sure with 155HP and a DSG exactly where the opportunity for "excitement" comes in here.

    Seems like after a few weeks you 'd be done with this car except as a nice commuter.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mazda uses a conventional 6 speed auto with SkyActiv, though they claim is locks up sooner and more often.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ah--i should use the term "DSG-like" .

    I think they also offer a regular manual transmission, but it's not the one from the MX-5 unfortunately, which is a sweet little gearbox.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I would certainly agree with that. But really given the correct applications, that is totally a good thing !! We have a 140 hp (but 236# ft of torque) with a DSG and it is downright "exciting" to post 41 mpg in rolling parking lot traffic, aka 28 mile commute in up to 1.5 hours for a exciting 19 mph.But then on the flip side @ 90 mph, it can also post 40-42 mpg.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, not the same, but at least it's a 6 speed.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well sitting around in lawn chairs bragging about MPG is not *MY* idea of heart-pounding excitement, but then I'm an old gearhead, and I am only too glad to relinquish the stage to a new generation of gadget geeks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited July 2012
    I don't think the SkyActiv buyer would, though.

    He might say that among the fuel sippers, his car was the funnest.

    Same for the TDI.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Such a subjective thing, this "fun"....
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2012
    Well indeed. We all get cars for different reasons/applications etc. I really like the concept of the Mazda Miata, but for the majority of miles and driving I do, it would mostly be a major pain and beat me half to death. I just heard from 2 friends that bought Mazda Miata's, that each of them separately sold them. We all of course have pretty close access to the iconic Highway One (PCH, etc) Monterey, Half Moon Bay, Big Sur, Carmel, GG Bridge, Marin County, Napa Sonoma Wine Country, Central Coast Wine Country, etc etc.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    SkyActiv-M is a sweet little gearbox too from what I hear.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Miatas do look like all kinds of fun, and they have their own race series, which is great, but they just can't be a daily driver for most people, due to a lack of storage space and a lack of a back seat. They only make sense as a second car, and don't make sense at all if someone is limited to one car, for whatever reason. Which is why it's a good thing Mazda also makes the 3.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I find a Miata strangely boring...I think it's more about the "can of angry gnats" engine note, the gazillion of them on the road, things like that. But they certainly are a competent little sports car

    You can't argue with success, however. Why ANYONE orders that car with an automatic escapes me.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Given the power differential, I agree in this case. The automatic version is underpowered. I wonder if they'll ever put SkyActiv-G in there...might need to re-jigger the SkyActiv trannies to work in a RWD setup though.

    The can of gnats can be fixed with the simple replacement of the muffler with a used coffee can. Duct tape is your friend. :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The Miata is....is....how can I say this respectfully....it's not really a man's car, even though I KNOW that lots of men own them. The manual transmission helps alleviate the threats to my masculinity, but they are just too damn cute. :P
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, if you feel your manliness would be brought into question....then maybe you just aren't man enough to drive a Miata. :shades:
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Sky-Activ is more about FE than otherwise, so I doubt.....
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    By your measure, and speaking of "cute", neither the Bug-Eye Sprite nor the Sunbeam Alpine were really a man's car.

    But both of them were one hell of lot of fun to drive.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    SkyActiv is about FE, but Mazda is about driving fun. It successfully does both.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well I don't know about an Alpine, which is a rather slow and awkward bit of work, but a Bug-Eye is a tremendously visceral car--you can feel it, smell it, hear it (none of which you get in any significant amount in a Miata unless you really re-work the car). And you had better want to get your hands dirty---often.

    On the other hand, I would hardly hold up a Bug-Eye Sprite as an example of a "good" manual gearbox---they don't have first-synchro, they are noisy, and they break.

    True enough about my own self-image in a Miata being my own problem, but as we used to say in the Army: "There it is".

    The Miata gearbox is nearly faultless however--I wish I could install one in my MINI.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    A relative who bought a Mini (Clubman) NEW, a few years ago, sold it, due to his take that it was falling apart literally as he drove it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    MINIS are apparently built by blind men somewhere but they ARE fun to drive. But he's right--parts do literally fall off my car regularly, or break off in my hands, to say nothing of squeaks and rattles galore.

    Basically reliable car, though, I have to give it that.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm on my 2nd Miata...great secondary car, I could never live with one as my primary car. No way.

    They are plenty fun, though. I guess they're common and neanderthal friends will call 'em girly, but who cares?

    Ride is a bit stiff, but I have the suspension package with the big rims. If I could choose again I'd stick with the base rim size, but I wanted the Torsen LSD and you had to upgrade.

    Gas tank is a bit small, too, so the low fuel light goes on at 260 miles the way I drive it. :shades:

    My '93 was lighter, more pure. Slower, but I miss it. Ride was actually better.

    I'd like to see Mazda make the ND lighter and more open, lower cowl and window sills. Then just add a SkyActiv engine and you've solved the range issue.

    That'd be perfect. I'd buy my 3rd. :shades:
  • garv214garv214 Member Posts: 162
    The Miata gearbox is nearly faultless however--I wish I could install one in my MINI.

    In my 94 miata, I find the gearbox a bit stiff until it warms up a bit, but my car does occupy the garage for long periods of time between drives, so that may play into it.

    I totally agree that miatas should be ordered with a manual, because it makes it an absolute blast to drive. I think the car would lose most of its magic with an automatic...

    Maybe my miata is different, but I find it to be a visceral car. The interior is a bit of a blend of leather and "car" smells. Manual steering and a 5 speed to keep things interactive. Granted it might not have the exhaust note of an Alfa or a Ferrari, but I have heard much worse too...

    When I bought it used in 2003, I figured I would keep it a couple of years and then sell it, but here I am 9 years later and at this point I wouldn't consider selling it (I have had 2 legit offers on it over the years too...). My wife and I take our annual trip to Big Sur in it, my kids love to ride in it (mostly because they get to ride in the front seat...a pretty big damn deal when you are 6...), and it costs next to nothing to keep it...

    I have been razzed by some that it is a "chicks" car... whatever... it is a blast to drive and I have enjoyed it more than just about any car that I have ever owned, and that's the way I measure its worth.

    If there were a statistic of driving enjoyment per dollar spent, the miata would likely top that list...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Have you opened up the shifter turret from the top? In most older ones the rubber turret tears and the gear oil can leak out. It uses 75w90 gear oil. Careful as gear oil cologne is particularly rancid smelling.

    Replace the oil and get a new turret and should be buttery smooth again.

    Pics 18 to 29:

    http://www.miata.net/garage/trans/18.htm

    And DO NOT let your wife know you borrowed the turkey baster to remove the old fluid. No no no. :D
  • garv214garv214 Member Posts: 162
    Hey Thanks for that! I may take a little look there to see if that is my problem. I do have 120K on the car now, so it is entirely possible that this will correct that issue.

    For the record, I am the Turkey Baster owner and operator in our house :shades:

    It will give me an excuse to get a new one prior to Thanksgiving...
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    edited August 2012
    Are turkey basters used outside of the garage?

    off-topic, but I grew up in an area where clammers used bathroom plungers to harvest soft clams (intertidally in salt ponds). I was a teenager before I realized the plunger had other uses away from the clam beds.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    With salt, right? Saw a YouTube how-to just yesterday.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    the plunger had other uses away

    New one on me - I thought they were just intended to pop out parking lot dents.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    The salt trick you saw on you-tube is used at low tide for razor clams.

    The ordinary "bathroom" plunger is used in 1-2' of water in salt ponds. It is the traditional method used on the south side of Cape Cod, MA to about Narragansett Bay, RI. It is used to harvest soft clams ("steamers") speciesMya arenaria by sucking them out of their holes without breaking the delicate shells. Hard clams are harvested with rakes.

    I was about 15 before I learned that people put plungers into toilets - and found that image of using clamming gear for such a purpose to be very disturbing.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    Sorry I got so off-topic. Back to cars - I would think a Miata, manual or A/T would stink for hauling clams. Just not enough room. The best all-around clam hauler I owned was a '69 VW Squareback, naturally a M/T. It got filled with clams several times. When "Nor'easters" would hit the coast, I would be at the beach at next first light to get the clams that washed ashore (mostly surf clams Spisula solidissima) but occasionally hard clams or quahogs). If you waited a little too long, the seagulls would peck at them, possibly contaminating the meat. The gulls pick up smaller ones to drop onto hard surfaces to crack open. In college, I traded clams for other food, and shucked, then froze the rest for later enjoyment.

    I'm now at the point of comparing clam/mussel/oyster harvesting areas for eventual retirement.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Do you have to cook them before you freeze them, like a lot of sea critters?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The VW Squareback was a really nice little car, that got little respect--one of the very first production cars with EFI, great on gas, practical, fairly peppy for a vintage VW, and pretty reliable if you studied up on the early Bosch injection systems (which, compared to today, are pretty simple).
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    edited August 2012
    You don't have to cook them first before freezing - but it sure helps. After shucking that first bushel raw, you want a shortcut to get them to open a bit, so I steam them or scald them "just enough" to make shucking easy.

    With some of these bivalves, you are slicing through the abductor muscle to shuck them. Its basically no different that a scallop. So I still save abductor muscles, mostly from oysters, and treat them like small, or bay, scallops. Nobody can tell the difference and I feel better about using something that everybody else throws away.

    Its not entirely off-topic. When I help someone negotiate a price on a car, I often get repaid with oysters (or bottles of whiskey). Unlike clams, each oyster is slightly different and requires a slightly different approach with the oyster knife - so they are more challenging and interesting to handle.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    edited August 2012
    I have fond memories of that '69 VW Squareback. It was my college car and I put over 100K miles on it at a time when that was a big milestone (and it already had about 30K when I bought it). It was the first car I negotiated entirely on my own, after my father told me "If you don't buy this car, I will". He had previously hated every "foreign" car I brought home on test drives, from Fiats to early Datsuns, the first Honda Civic, an MGB, and even a Simca (sold at Plymouth dealers new for around 1499).
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Which is the more effective transmission in a VW Squareback, the shuckbox, the continuously oyster, or the direct scallop? Or should one just stick with the clamual?

    Had to be done. :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    that was very shellfish of you to post that.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    new car sales are 7% with manual transmission this year, compared to 3% previously.
    according to edmunds...

    http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/stick-shift-long-decline-slight-comeback-articl- e-1.1127373
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, I guess I'd better just stick my shell back into the sand and hope no one comes at me with a plunger shaped like a gearshift. :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2012
    Here you go. :)

    Now that you mention it, you never see cool accessories for the home based on automatic transmissions.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I sea what you did there...
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Oh shun!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2012
    There was always something fishy about the Mercury Mariner not offering a manual transmission but you could get one in an Escape at the time.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Ok this whole metaphor is turning into as much of a wet blanket as a Civic SI with a CVT. :sick:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Did you ever know us NOT to run something completely into the ground? :P

    Speaking of modifications, what my MINI 6-speed really needs is a smaller gearshift knob (was this made for Jesse Ventura?) and a short-shifter kit.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, the clams eventually came back out. Unfortunately, the Civic SI is still there. :shades:

    Now, a Civic SI with a sport-tuned DCT, THAT would be fun.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,680
    Hilarious, Steve.

    I understand 1st and 2nd, but what does it mean once you shift into 3rd? :surprise:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The transmission takes a dump. :P
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