Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
You bum! I really typed that too.
Hadn't considered a minivan in this equation, Shipo (not sure why you would :P ). I'll have to verify with the wife's T&C. Now there's a vehicle I wouldn't nominate as a candidate for MT.
Sorry to say, but I've not had a stick to drive for nearly two years now.
Given the significant cost of the build-out of the facility and the initial operations of a start-up, both my business partner and I opted not to get new cars when our leases ran out. In my case I started driving our family Home Depot hack, a semi-retired 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan (3.8 liter mill now with over 130,000 miles on the clock and still running flawlessly) as my main ride. Said another way, I've driven nearly 60,000 miles since the 530i was turned in, and none if it in a car with a real transmission.
Now 22 months down the road, I've found a semi-permanent contract at a company (hey, cash flow is still cash flow) that is about 85 miles round trip from home, jumping to about 125 miles round trip sometime this summer. Throw in random errands and such and that 125 mile commute equates to something over 35,000 miles per year. Yikes!
With the above in mind, it is pretty obvious that leasing a new BMW is a tad silly, and as such, I've been keeping my eye peeled for a sweet deal on a 2000 528i 5-Speed. I figure that for about $15,000 I can find one with say less than 70,000 miles and with the options that I want (Premium Package, Sport Package and "M" interior). Given that I turn a pretty fair wrench, I see no reason why I cannot drive such a car for an easy 250,000 miles at a very reasonable cost per mile. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Yeah, I kind of figured that this wasn't a Chrysler exclusive technology. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
in my fleet, she loves the new-beetle and isn't interested in driving a jetta. and apparently i'm too homophobic to drive the new-beetle during daylight.
my cuz's business partner was driving his wife's red new-beetle to the shop for service and on the highway a carload of highschool girls made & held up signs with deprecating slurs that were spelled wrong! me & cuz are easily amused, but we thought that was hilarious.
Have looked in the past but can't find one...
If you want a more exahustive list, I can probably compile a better PFA offering.
the EPA fuel economy pamphlets have the info you seek, per model year. available at any new car dealer or on epa.gov. i'm not sure if the 2007 pamphlet/website is ready yet, but probably it is.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
Worked just now, for me.
- Ray
Expecting a few 2008 MPG #s to appear there soon...
I'm sure a lot had to do with the MDX's wimpish 235/60 tires compared to the Troopers M&S 255/70. But I had to agree with her point of having complete control and direct feedback on traction is a big advantage. Needing to brake on icy downhills to prevent speeding up, or do other things to keep the transmission from upshifting or downshifting on its own is hardly an "advancement". My wife is highly competent driving in the snow (grew up in Maine) and, with our old Trooper, ferried other moms (and dads) back and forth from our daughters' school on several occassions when we were hit with surprise snow/ice storms. I used it at least twice to drive our neighbor, an emergency room doctor, to the hospital while his Grand Cherokee sat idle.
Unfortunately, I see that there are virtually no SUV's that we would consider with a manual transmission. Even the X5, too small before, appears to have eliminated the 6-speed manual from their enlarged 7 passenger 2007 model. Anyone know of anything in the league of the X5, MDX, XC90, LR3 with a manual? Too many fair weather clutch challenged soccer moms buying SUV's, I guess.
:sick:
Narrow tires are usually better in ice/snow then wide tires. Just look at the typical snow rally race.
On the MDX did she engage the manual diff lock?
I think on MDXs it shows as a button called VTM-4 or something and is supposed to lock up the driveline a little better. Not sure if you need to be in first geat for it to work though.
Indeed but many modern automatics can be downshifted and locked into a gear appropriate for the engine braking needed.
I've driven thru several New Hampshire winters in a RWD BMW equipped with a Steptronic A/T with no problems and I live in a hilly area.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Ice is a whole different animal, but a couple years back I got a ride in my BILs MDX. There had been a large snowfall (close to 2 feet) that had been minimally plowed, so there was plenty of snow on the road. The MDX cruised through it like it was just a dusting. Very stable. Tires seemed to bite well.
Actually, they had the touring model. I know that the base model came with much different (I think more car oriented) tires?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Pet peeve on the AT is, the manumatic piece (which I play with and end up not using after the novelty wears off), is that it is too visual. With my stick, I know what gear it is in by feel. I find it annoying to have to look for the digital read out to tell me what gear I am in on an AT.
Our van doesn't have this feature, so I rarely have a chance to use it (only on a test drive, or occassionally I drive someone elses car), so maybe if I had it on my daily driver I would use it, but probably not. When I drive an AT, I just get lazy and let it do what it wants (usually not what I want, but so be it).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
how about recommend a GMC/chevy duramax 4wd with manual trans
I assume third row seating and a DVD player is optional?
What is unfortunate with Acura is that for at least 3 model years, 2002-2004, I believe, the automatic transmissions in the MDX and TL were a significant problem area. One friend had 2 new transmissions put in his 2003 MDX under warranty in 35k miles and then dumped it, fearing another breakdown on a dark country road. Although the 2005 model supposedly had that problem corrected, my wife still would have insisted we pay $1,000 extra for a 6-speed manual similar to the one in our 2004 TL, had such an option been offered by Acura for the 2005 MDX. Not only her preferred transmission, but a hell of a lot more reliable.
For those that mentioned narrower tires are better, that's partially true. But the tread pattern on the standard MDX Michilins is very lame. Good for smooth highway driving with little road noise, but I believe my 911 tires would offer more "bite".
Hence the "all things being equal" comment. Obviously a lot of other factors come into play.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Our van doesn't have this feature, so I rarely have a chance to use it (only on a test drive, or occassionally I drive someone elses car), so maybe if I had it on my daily driver I would use it, but probably not. When I drive an AT, I just get lazy and let it do what it wants (usually not what I want, but so be it).”
One ‘advancement’ that helps ( me ) with this issue is the HUD. ( Head Up Display. )
My current and previous GM vehicles have had a digital display of the currently selected trans. gear prominently displayed there. I find it quite easy to monitor the information displayed there ( including a lovely Tachometer graphic ! ), while keeping my eyes on the road. It is ( very ) visual.
When test driving the 2 Corvettes ( primarily to evaluate other aspects ) one that I drove happened not to be equipped with the highest level Equipment Package, and thus – no HUD. The current gear was therefore shown in the DIC ( Driver Information Center ), an LED display BELOW the Speedometer and Tachometer on the instrument panel. This arrangement would require diverting my sightline from the road much further \ longer that I would find comfortable.
And this would have been unacceptable, for me.
But the display in the HUD arrangement works very well, for me.
YMMV.
Cheers,
- Ray
Addicted to HUD . . .
Any serious sports car with an automatic transmission is unacceptable to me, period. I don't care if a bikini clad Carman Diaz is in the "HUD" holding a placard telling me what gear I'm in.
Manumatics and steptronics are a joke. When I was cross shopping an SLK55 with the 911, the Mercedes dealer (from whom I bought two Acuras) tried to convince me that the "maunual setting" on the shift lever was just as good. I could have taken sips of my Starbucks coffee between hitting the lever up or down and having the gear actually catch. I was never in the damn gear I thought I was. And the AMG unit is supposed to be one of the better ones. Ha. :confuse:
I'm not a fan of SMG's either, but having a manual shifting function on a torque converter slushbox is just plain lame. For the buyers that use it, that is.
“Manumatics and steptronics are a joke. . . . having a manual shifting function on a torque converter slushbox is just plain lame.” I disagree here . . .
I happen to have recently purchased a 2007 Corvette Coupe – with automatic trans. – as most Coupe & Convertible buyers do still choose.
[ The Bowling Green Assembly Plant web site shows that for MY 2006: 66.1% of Coupes and 72.9 % of Convertibles were built with the six speed automatic. Obviously, no Z06s were. But it seems that this manumatic is not considered a joke by a rather significant majority of Corvette buyers, today. ]
I truly do understand the often stated view that use of manual transmissions significantly enhances the ( sporting aspects of ) the driving experience. I used to share that view.
My current view is that automatic transmissions ( including, the DSG \ SMG \ PDK devices that are actually manual transmissions, with no torque converter ) have now reached the point where they are actually superior to manuals in some critical aspects. My last 4 Sport Sedans have had manumatics. And my current ‘ride’ has a very good one.
We are clearly a nation where the average age is rising – and with an older populace, typically comes an increase in disabilities that limit physical functioning.
And heavy traffic (where, for many, a manual is just work – no fun at all) is becoming ever more widespread.
I owned and drove nothing but manual trans. cars for many, many years. 3 on the column, 4-or-5-on the floor – even 4 on the tree ( \ column - a Peugeot – mid-1960s 404 model, I believe) and 4 speed with separate O/D (Volvo).
But I (and many others) have either physical reasons to require an automatic – and / or simply the desire not to have to deal with a clutch all the time. The current crop of manumatics offers an opportunity to significantly enhance the gear change aspect of driving a car when desired - with the option of simply popping it into full automatic mode when Hotlanta area traffic becomes more stop than go. In my case, severe bursitis [ my ‘excuse’, if you will ] plus traffic I cannot avoid means I will never buy another car with a clutch.
And that’s now just fine with me. In the case of my current Daily Driver, that 2007 Corvette Coupe with six speed automatic, one can also ‘lock’ the trans. in second gear. I have found this useful in some of the stop \ go \ stop \ slow traffic situations I often encounter on my commute home most late afternoons. The torque converter cushions the on \ off transitions somewhat. There is some engine braking available. And second gear in this trans. allows 0 to approx. 86 MPH without any shifting, up or down. Sufficient for this purpose.
I did not select this option in expectation that the acceleration ( shifting ) would be any quicker than I could do with a manual trans. No ‘performance advantage’ anticipated. But since I have only driven one vehicle with a manual trans. ( friend’s Jeep Wrangler ) in the past 10+ years, I am certain that this automatic shifts both more quickly and more consistently than I now could.
[[ And I was in pain for almost a week following that short drive. ]]
And the paddle shift \ manumatic feature certainly allows me significant additional control ( involvement ) when I drive my car than is possible when in either of the ‘pure automatic’ modes.
With six gears and such a ( very ) wide ratio spread – and great steaming piles of torque at any RPM – I can certainly accelerate from any speed, in my choice of gears, at an ‘entertaining’ rate. Certainly as quickly as anyone needs to accelerate in the real world. I do not expect to drive my Corvette on any race track. I did buy it for the entertainment value it offers – and this automatic trans. allows me to enjoy driving a Corvette.
I agree that this trans. ( and every similar such device I have driven ) is certainly still not “perfect” - particularly in the time it takes from shift request to actual shift execution. This aspect still needs work. The actual shift execution is generally quite quick enough for me. I did buy this Corvette equipped ( 3LT Package with heated seats, etc. ) such that I see it more as a 2-place GT, rather than the full out Sports Car that something like the Z06 is.
Some will forever maintain that a Corvette ( or any sports \ GT car ) equipped with any automatic trans. is heresy ( or worse ) and that is just fine with me. My $$s, my choice – and I am very, very happy with my choice!
Just my $0.01.5 worth = with a penny and a half ‘mail in rebate’ = FREE!
- Ray
Not a powertrain engineer & don’t even play one on TV. . .
One thing that highlights the inherent drawbacks of TC automatics is when a 4-cylinder, fuel-frugal engine is hooked up to a sedan the same weight as your Corvette. Suddenly, you wish you had the positive engagement of a clutch disc rather than the slippery slush of the torque converter, not to mention instantly available gear choices controlled by the driver.
In this discussion, as in many arenas, the Corvette is a unique case, and not a very broadly applicable example to use.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The only time I notice my TC's slosh is from a standing start. In the 'Vette, who cares? As far as shifting for control in curves or hills, the IS's manumatic offers significant input. You can say it's no manual, and that would be very true and bankable, but then it doesn't have to be to be effective, short of track work.
DSG, again, would be a whole 'nother smoke. To suggest that a DSG equipped A3 (for example) is not complete performance competition for a manual A3 is pure unadulterated poppycock.
Seat time suggested...
Shel's Arch-rival Commendatore Ferrari had a 400i equipped with a slushbox. :confuse:
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
i ask because with a dogleg manual, you are pretty sure.
You're telling me that without the position cue of your stick you don't know what slot you're in, from sound, speed, seat of pants and knowledge of what you've just done? Even with the stereo on?
If true, I'd suggest you aren't using your manual for anything terribly productive, and really ought to be running automatic anyway...
:P
my 5.0 mustang with auto sounds so good, i never listen to the radio.
i use the manual in my focus to get the best gas mileage i can, most of the time.
The other beauty of DSG is that it has no mileage penalty....
One of our usual suspects (you know who you are ;-) ) here in the Manny Tranny discussion read that post and suggested that I repost it here. So, without further ado, here is my old post from 3-Feb-2005:
================================================================================- ===
Sorry about your problems BigRob. If I still worked for the MB-North America-CAC (Customer Assurance Center), which I left at the end of 1996, I would be able to walk over and give your message to someone that could do something about it. Unfortunately, the cast of characters there has changed so much that I don't know anybody who still works there.
Having said all of that, I doubt that it would have done any good anyway. I have periodically ranted about the attitude of upper management at MB-USA, whereby they believe that they know better than their customers what those customers need, want and desire. I find that just a tad arrogant. The best story surrounds the launch of the SLK; MB-USA wanted to make damn sure that it went off well, so they did all of their customer research and came to the conclusion (among many others) that the car should only be offered with an automatic transmission (as usual).
At that point I was doing the alternating month thing, working one month in Montvale, and the next in Stuttgart, so I had a chance to drive a pre-production SLK with a 5-Speed transmission while in Germany. I liked it. When I got back to Montvale, I was looking over one of the cars that was to be used for the PR launch (more on that in a moment), and happened to comment, out loud to no one in particular, "Gee, it's too bad us Americans can't get a 5-Speed." I didn't realize the VP of the CAC was standing behind me apparently quite smug in his belief that I would be drooling all over "his" car. When he heard my comment he got quite angry and started shouting at me, "What the hell are you talking about? We spent millions to determine what options to offer on this car (I suspect that was an exaggeration, then again, maybe not), and the fact of the matter is, Mercedes customers don't drive sticks. Period. Besides, only an idiot would want to drive a car like this with a manual."
Being a bit of a hot head myself, my response was kind of predictable, "Well then I guess I'm and idiot." He gave me a very nasty look and stormed off. I found out later that he had put the word out that my contract was not to be renewed at the end of the year. Oh well.
Anyway, the designated Saturday for the big PR event for the SLK was a couple of days after our little exchange. The intention was to hold it outside so that there would be lots of photo-ops of the old SLs, their owners, and of course their big smiles when being shown the new SLK. Best laid plans of mice and men and all of that, it rained, big time. So, since all of the participants (both people and cars) were already there (some from great distance), the event was held inside the shop at the CAC. My in-town "office" was a loft above the main shop floor (where I got to see lots of cool stuff) and that gave me a birds-eye view of the proceedings. Long story short, almost every one of the old SLs were equipped with three pedals (all of them?), and to put it mildly, the owner group was less than enthused about the new automatic only SLK. During the Q&A, the previously mentioned VP was asked repeatedly about the "research" that led MB to think that the manual transmission was not desirable in the SLK. Sitting in my perch watching him grow more and more uncomfortable, all I could do was bite my lower lip to keep from laughing out loud. I lasted just the remainder of the year there, rumor has it that he didn't last much longer. Oh, and the SLK is now offered with a manual transmission. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I'm with habitat1 in that any form of a manual in a sports car is unacceptable. I feel part of the beauty of the manual is the connection you feel to the car. I can live with the stop and go traffic to have the joy of throwing gears, maybe I'm just old school.
Here is my question to the group though...what is wrong with us in the United States? I'm at the Hertz counter in the Frankfurt Airport last week and the guy asks me if I can drive a manual with a look on his face like every American is clueless to drive a stick. (and trust me the Opel Signum turbo diesel I had was guaranteed more fun on the autobahn with a 6 speed manual. good for 200km+
Are we just lazy or are the manufacturers weaning us off and nobody cares? Either way what's so different in Europe?
Gas prices, $5.00/gallon and up!
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Another factor that is starting to rear its ugly head is the green factor. In the US Automatics and CVTs are quite often rated cleaner than manuals. I know you guessed the reason. Manual drivers can't be computer controlled for the cleanest operating condition. Any automatic can be programed to drive at the optimum for the designed engine to pass clean air standards. No late shifting, over reving, down shifting to increase exhaust emmisions.
In the US more than 90 percent of the driving public views driving as a way to get to work or a way to get to a place to relax. The act of driving is not seen as a skill but a right.
"Are we just lazy or are the manufacturers weaning us off and nobody cares? Either way what's so different in Europe?"
Both statements are true. Manufacturers are trying to make cars and trucks as easy to use as possible knowing that ease of use is almost a religion in the US. And from sales you can see, no one cares. At least not enough to change the course of the manufacturers.
Would more drivers in Europe opt for an automatic, if there were no increased costs associated with buying an automatic?
They're getting much harder to find.
Very fun car.
Threaten divorce.
Actually, I'm not sure. I'm fortunate in that my wife, even with DC traffic, would prefer a stick in our MDX if one was offered. I'm not sure what I would have done if I married someone who didn't want to drive a stick, since that's all I've ever owned.
I guess I would first try to appeal to her frugal side. If you intend to keep the car a long time, maintenance and repairs on a stick will likely be less, possibly a lot so. My 1995 Maxima SE 5-speed is still running strong on its original clutch at 155k miles. Secondly, I'd try to appeal to her sense of driving control/enjoyment. The Camry isn't exactly a BMW 3-series in the twisties, but the more control you have over the transmission, the more fun it is to drive. And unfortunately Toyota, at least as far as the better imports, seem to put more "slush" in their slushboxes than anyone. It would drive me nuts feeling that torque converter hesitation..
If all else fails, show her a picture of the 911 Cab you intend to buy her when you hit it big. But remind her that it is absolutely only going to come with a proper 6-speed.
Also, thanks for the update. Live & learn.