Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Originally when I said this I meant with respect to transportation but I can expand it a little.
1. Number 1 selling Ice Cream flavor in the US: Vanilla
2. Number 1 selling midsize sedan: Toyota Camry
3. Number 1 selling paint color: White
4. Number 1 country of obese people - US
American's have taken over the whole world because we are positively hyper actively energetic and insidiously genius.
If by insidiously genius you mean we continue to find ways to do less, I agree. This isn't necessarily a negative connotation - look at Ford and the assembly line, or the bazillion patents for process improvements to improve efficiency or reduce labor; my engineering background is trying to optimize things so they are easier/less work.
4. Number 1 country of obese people: South Korea (the US is now # 2)
Best Regards,
Shipo
First, the RX-8 AT beats the RX-8 MT to 50mph because the AT torque converter gives a slightly high torque to the automatic. Second, because the engine has no low-end torque by design, it's much much easier to stall. Stalling in Boston's traffic daymare is the last thing one wants to do. My wife likes to drive it, and she will not drive a stick. Third, the automatic is much easier on gas in the city because it constantly seeks the lower RPMs.
Now purist rotor heads will cough blood at low RPMs, but in an urban environment it's not often a usable feature. An RX-8 would never get out of first gear most of the time. What's the point of that?
Here's how one must drive, rev to 7000RPMs in 1st, the automatic then shifts to 6th because you can't go faster than 35-40MPH anyway. The automatic handles any torque needs without my input by going up and down the six speeds as needed. Lastly, half of the Boston urban commute is idle and coasting anyway, so again an automatic is the only thing that makes any reasonable sense.
The vast majority of people in the US live in big cities. Even in the NASCAR states, 70% of the population live in city urban highly traffic congested environment. Only 10% of the U.S. population lives semi-rural environement where wide open roads are the norm. God bless'm but them stick shifters in the world are getting to be really insignificant in numbers. If it weren't for the higher MPG numbers, needed by the car manufactures to keep the government off their backs, the manual transmissions would be gone today.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Yep, I am lazy and I am dull. I also drove a manual transmission for 20 years...guess what? I was lazy and dull even then :P .
Wait, hold on a minute you bought an automatic RX-8?
You realize everyone in the know laughs at your car the minute they see the automatic.
You paid more money for twenty less horsepower and less control over the car.
What would I do without Edmunds?
I had no clue that any country was fatter than the U.S., and I do keep up fairly well with current events.
Look, you're welcome to list the half dozen reasons why a slushbox works for you, but please don't extrapolate any broad based conclusions from them. Not to discredit your personal preferences/opinions, but mine are almost the complete opposite:
couldn't stand the stress anymore: I've logged 32+ years of manual driving, the last 24 in the Washington DC area and, in spite of ACL surgery last year, my clutch knee and ankle would disown me if I bought a slushbox - at least in a sports car. I am fortunate not to have a long daily commute, but even if I did, I doubt my choice of transmission would change. It's just not that much of a physical "stress". A mushy slushbox is a far greater frustration, IMO.
First, the RX-8 AT beats the RX-8 MT to 50mph because the AT torque converter gives a slightly high torque to the automatic. I don't know where you were getting your figures, but according to all of the road tests I've read, the manual RX-8 is at least 0.7 to 1.0+ second faster to 60 mph than the automatic. As it should be with 20 (previously 40) more horsepower, the same torque no power sucking torque converter, and lighter weight.
My wife likes to drive it, and she will not drive a stick. Again, my condolences. My wife has 30+ years of manual transmission experience and would prefer that our MDX came with a 6-speed. It's the first automatic either of us has owned and that's our number one (and nearly only) compaint against the vehicle.
Third, the automatic is much easier on gas in the city because it constantly seeks the lower RPMs..... Here's how one must drive, rev to 7000RPMs in 1st, the automatic then shifts to 6th because you can't go faster than 35-40MPH anyway. The automatic handles any torque needs without my input by going up and down the six speeds as needed. Did I read this correctly? You honestly think turning your slushbox into a two speed transmission nets you the best MPG? Personally I seek out routes that are predominantly downhill to get the best mileage. :surprise:
Bottom line, it's your personal perogative to get whatever transmission is right for you. But suggesting that manual transmissions would be gone today because you can't handle the stress or your wife will divorce you is hardly a valid market commentary. You bought a sports coupe and equiped it with a slushbox to handle a grinding commute. If the "congested environment" and stress you describe was so severe, sports cars and coupes would die as a automotive choice. Personally, if I felt the way you did, I think I'd find myself in an E320 Bluetec getting 35 mpg on diesel while listening to my 14 speaker stereo and getting my rear massaged. In a car that, at 200k miles, is just getting broken in. And can also outaccelerate an automatic RX-8. But I don't see any of that happening - sports cars/coupes going extinct or me driving an E320 Bluetec - anytime soon.
I'm sorry to have to contradict your claim that somehow South Korea passed the US in fat fannies, but it's not even close. I saw the statistics recently in the Wall Street Journal, which indicated that the obesity gap between the US and the rest of the workd is growing (literally and figuratively) not shrinking.
Here's the grim news for the source I believe the WSJ used:
Fattest Countries
As you can see, the US is solidly in first place at 30.6% obese, followed by our tortilla eating friends to the south in Mexico at "only" 24.2%. South Korea isn't even in the top 25, coming in at #28 with only 3.2% obesity (tied with Japan). Meaning that, proportionally, the US is 10 times as obese as South Korea. I've never been to South Korea, but according to a well travelled friend, it is almost immediately obvious every time he returns to the US from Asia, that we are a country of fat pigs by comparison. And, sadly, it is most noteable amoung children and teenagers.
Best Regards,
Shipo
By we, I mean those of us who live in the U.S., not those who post here.
Either way, I'm in Red Deer (Alberta), heading for the Yukon, enjoying the dickens out of my manual transmission, as well as the rest of the car.
There's nothing like a long (really long) road trip. Well, there is -- getting paid for doing it, but I'm happy to settle for this.
Very true in my case. This is one of the reasons we bought at least a few imports (626, Forester, Legacy).
Though note that Honda dropped the manual from the CR-V and Toyota dropped the option from the RAV4 as well. So even the import brands will lose a few of those sales from now on.
Toyota offers V6+ manual on some of their trucks, interestingly enough.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The RAV4 is a transverse mounted V6 on a unibody where the transmission also has to work as the transfer case. That requires a little different kind of transmission.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
This is the crux of the whole manual debate isn't it? How long will sales figures support the need for a manufacturer to offer a manual if any more than 90 percent of the buyers aren't interested in them?
It's not just the size of the market that matters, it's the "quality" of the market.
GM's market share dwarfs Porsches, yet the latter is one of the most profitable auto companies on the planet and the former is trying to keep it's head above water. As are Ford and Chrysler, also with much larger unit volumes than Porsche or BMW.
I don't dispute that manual transmissions are perhaps becoming harder to find in some mass marketed econoboxes and mid level models. But here's one for you: I'll bet you dinner and drinks that the top 5 manufacturers that sell the highest percentage of manual transmissions also have significantly higher profit margins than the 5 manufacturers that sell the highest percentage of automatics.
Ever since Henry Ford offered his Model T in "any color you wanted, as long as it is black", the industry has created and catered to market niches. When small convertibles all but went away, Mazda introduced the Miata and it became a runaway hit. On a much smaller scale, when the Acura TL devolved from 1998 to 2003 into a gussied up Accord and sales were tanking, the 2004 redesign, which was much more sporty and featured, for the first time, a 6-speed manual option, transformed the TL into a top volume car. Nevermind that only about 10% are sold with the manual transmission - it got enthusiasts writing and contributed to a complete image reversal for the TL. Virtually the opposite has occured with the Nissan Maxima. The former "4 door sports car" has turned into a walking dead shadow of its former self, with a CVT transmission and a sad loss of any enthusiast following whatsoever.
While a manual transmission may be purchased by a relatively small segment of the overall market, it's an important, and potentially highly profitable one that, in some cases, has a positive halo effect on even the automatic sales. And, as you and I both know, you aren't going to convince serious enthusaists like me that a paddle shifting slushbox or rubber band CVT is just as good.
But, there are still some oddballs (c'est moi!) that would but a minivan (Odyssey) or luxo SUV (MDX say) with a manual. Heck, if Honda offered a sport Odyssey, with the 6 speed, and no power doors (but keep the moonroof) I would be all over it. Me, and about 4 other people.
The CRV and Rav 4 have become bigger and porkier, definitely more transportation modules than whatever pretext of a "fun" lifestyle car they used to have. So, no more sticks.
My next family car (once we can downsize from the Odyssey) will be some kind of sports wagon, hopefully with a stick (if I can convince the wife, and they actually make one then that we like!)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I must say that all that rowing through gears in my manual-trannied Kia's was indeed fun, but so is flipping my Lancer's magnesium paddle shifters. And now I can just pop the Rally Red baby in to 'D' and yap away as I want on my cell phone, stuff donuts or hamburgers in to my mouth and generally feel good about purchasing this great looking new Lancer GTS from Mitsubishi. I loved to shift gears manually but the transition to CVT automatic has been both seamless and without tears.
It helps to have a hot new Lancer GTS body on that platform and drivetrain. It means more to me than how the car is shifted through propulsion.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
My #3 son, who is a big big Honda fan went with a Mazda recently. Manual availability was a factor. Mazda appears to be courting manual transmission people -- most of the others, not so much.
not so good news to hear they dropped the MT on the CRV.
and i do believe in the halo effect which you mentioned.
It will be interesting to see if anyone else in the manual transmission camp picks up on the Porsche Cayenne 6-speed as an alternative. Porsche appears to have worked the bugs out of the early Cayenne. The new "base" model has a much more potent 290 hp engine, and, with a stick, starts at under $45,000. Realistically, it will sticker for $50k+ with options, but, unfortunately, that's where a lot of SUV's end up these days by the time you add all of those luxury do-dads. Personally, I'd rather have a vehicle that drives and handles excetionally well, than a swaying boat with every luxury do-dad imaginable. Our biggest hurdle may be giving up the MDX's third row 7 passenger seating for the 5 passenger Cayenne, but I will still give it a test drive.
I have driven plenty of V6 and V8 Cayennes and never liked them but those were the previous generation. I have only seen a couple of the 2008 Cayennes so far so we haven't taken any in trade yet.
Who makes a stick with a V6? Acura TL, Mazda 6, Infiniti G35, BMW 3-series ... is that it?
Let's see, Passat only with the 2.0t, but a sweet engine.
Accord of course, and that might be the best value of the bunch.
Subaru with the turbo 4 has pelnty of power.
And doesn't the Camry SE have this combo? Not that you will ever see one! Or is it just on the 4?
Oh, and the Altima SE is another nice choice.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
You can get the accord with a V6 in Coupe form not sure about sedan.
Mazdaspeed6 is a turbo 4 not a V6 but way more power but standard AWD so you might not like that.
You can get the Altima with a V6 manual combo and I am sure I am missing some others.
The new '08 model will not initially have the v6 sedan w/ stick. Like the current generation, Honda will probably wait a couple of years before releasing.
By the way, it is a great combination!
Maybe Boaz or somebody else wants to start a discussion "The future of FWD", but as far as I'm concerned, it's very dim when it comes to sport sedans/coupes. And Honda/Acura, an otherwise smart company, is stubbornly slow in figuring this out, instead opting to further mcuk things up with expensive and excessively heavy SH-AWD. Nice option for the snow belt market, but it shouldn't be their primary drivetrain for the RL.
Oops, getting off topic. Sorry.
Honda? Not sure, but the CR-V is the best selling SUV, and only won that crown when they dropped the manual option. :sick:
They would certainly sell more of them if they still had a manual option, not fewer.
That is, if they have time after counting all that money.
And as noted, there is an Accord sedan now.
Actually, you can get the new C class benz with a 6 speed in the sport version, so that's another (rare) option.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I would be willing to bet that our local MB dealer doesn't have a single one in stock.
I wish Land Rover offered the LR2 in the us with the manual option as it would be a way to offer the car for sale down in the low 30s instead of mid 30s. I don't see that ever happening though even if they do bring the diesel engine over in two years.
They actually had a C-class 6-speed manual at NAIAS this year. I have driven the hatchback one in a stick and a sedan. I think they have to have manuals so they don't get made fun of for being old fuddy-duddy cars by BMW.
I will make fun of them anyway. :P
Altima (sedan or coupe)
Mazda 6 (either sedan or 5-door; for some reason the wagon doesn't come with a stick)
TL (S-type only)
G35 (Sport)
3-series (sedan or wagon)
C-class
A4 (sedan or wagon)
CTS (yes, another rare bird, but the 3.6L does come with a 6-speed as standard equipment)
Pontiac G6 (only available with the GT trim level)
Saab 9-3 (Aero)
It seems that there are quite a few more choices available than I had originally thought.
Have I missed any?
The Volvo S40, V50 and T60 are 5-cylinders, but are available with stick shifts.
Seriously, for a sports coupe that has a 0-60 of 6 seconds with a MT, what times would you expect with an auto?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Are you only considering 4 doors? Lots of coupes have sticks.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
So, a coupe or a wagon (or hatch) would be a nice change. Many of the cars on the list above are sedans only (TL, G35, C-class, CTS), so I won't necessarily rule them out.
I guess the manufacturers typically provide manual-transmission cars to performance-oriented reviewers such as C&D, MT, R&T, etc. because manuals are what they like, and so that the fastest times for the car will be published, even though most people buy automatics.
This is key, IMO. In Europe, you need a special "automatic only"/restricted license if you can't drive manual. This is like going to the DMV and getting a moped license instead of a motorcycle one. Prepare to get laughed at. So all but the very top-end cars like a S-class come with manual as the default transmission. The automatic is something they use in their rental/fleet models. So you if you get a European make, get one in manual for sure. For instance, I wouldn't buy a Mercedes with an automatic under any circumstances. It's a Chrysler piece of junk thrown in to appease the U.S. drivers.
Oh - don't forget a couple of others.
Any car with a supercharged 4 will run like a V6. I'm not such a fan of turbos, though.
Also, the RX-8 should be included. It moves like a big V6 or small V8 and is technically a sedan.(they just went weird in the styling department and made the rear doors oddly)
Accord - 244HP
Altima - 270HP
Mazda 6 - 212HP
G35 - 306HP
CTS - 255HP
G6 - 240HP (3.9L)
TL - 270HP
9-3 - 250HP
The new 7 speed Mercedes automatic is very, very good except for the dumb column shifter thing they put on it. You won't find that transmission in any Chryslers. The trans alone probably costs more then most Chryslers.