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I also wish car makers would add a real 6th gear (that is taller than the current 5th) to manual tranny cars so they can have a tall cruising gear.
VW used to do this with 5 speeds giving them two overdrive gears - had a 5 speed quantum that did 96 mph in 3rd gear, and had two overdrives after that. It pulled just over 2000 rpm in 5th gear at 60 mph with only 74 hp. It did fine on the highway. Yes downshifts were occasionally needed, but so what.
This was in 1983 when gas was more expensive than it is now (adjusted for inflation).
Yep, that is one of my reasons for switching. In the case of my car it is about a 25% difference.
I am a member of the 40 mpg club we have in the Accord mileage thread. There are some automatic drivers out there who can't beat my manual yet.
No, I meant EXACTLY what I said. Same miserable 1970s technology. GM? Same 3 speed automatic with an overdrive gear added. Ford? Same crud. Chrysler? Okay - Chrysler is making WORSE automatics than in the 70s. And when we get to foreign cars... Mercedes? BMW? VW? All junk because in Germany, if you drive automatics, you have a special "automatic only" license that is laughed at like a Moped license is here in the U.S. 95%+ of all Germans get the manual REAL license.
So is is any wonder that the manuals are built well and the automatics are cheap crud they send to the rental fleets?(and us by extension).
Now, Japan is the best among the worst I guess, but their penchant for sedate rides and mile high gearing - well, they essentially make a more "Buick" ride than GM does. Not surprizingly, most of Japan also drives manuals.
Actually, per numbers posted on this thread a long way back, it is not a majority. Less than half of Japanese drivers drive a stick. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That's the main issue I have with my legacy, at 70 mph in 5th gear, it's turning at 3000 rpm. A taller 6th gear that turned around 2250 or 2300 rpm at 70 mph would probably get another 2 mpg on the highway.
There are two modes (if not making the gear changes yourself) regular and Sport. Sport will definetly impact the economy as you'll spend more time in the lower gears and higher in the RPMs of course.
I can just dump it up to a higher gear though if I want to piddle around, but normally in regular (non-sport) mode it has a nice blend of upshifting when just tooling around and staying in the gear I want when needed for a bit of zip.
I know that $3.50 per gallon gas has people thinking about all sorts of ways to save money at the pump, sometimes without thinking about other consequences. For example, on a regular basis over in the Acura forums I frequent, somebody inevitably asks "do I really need to put premium gas at an extra 20 cents per gallon in my $35,000 TL-S or $45,000 MDX?"
FWIW, the advice I was given very early in my manual driving career (30+ years ago) was to error on the side of shifting high, rather than shifting low and lugging the engine. As such, the idea of "short shifting" or "tooling around in the highest gear" is against what I believe is the best way to treat an engine, long term.
My 1995 Nissan Maxima SE 5-speed has logged 155k miles at an average MPG of 24.02. It averages 28-29 on the highway and 21-22 in the city. (EPA ratings 22/27). Could I have gotten an extra 0.2 or 0.3 mpg by short shifting or lugging around in 5th gear at 40 mph. Perhaps. But according to my Nissan service manager that I've been taking the car to for 13 years, I would not have made it to 155k miles with virtually no carbon deposit build up and a compression test that showed all 6 cylinders within 3-5% of a new car tolerance. The car runs like new.
Short shifting is, IMO (and the opinion of the experts I've polled) short sighted. That isn't to say that you should drive like a maniac and redline the engine at every shift. But, especially with higher perfromance cars with redlines in the 7,000+ range, shifting to early or allowing the engine to lug below 2,000-2,500 rpm is penny wise and pound foolish.
Obviously, every car is different. At 75 mph, my former 9,000 rpm Honda S2000 was cruising along at a lofty 4,000 rpm in 6th gear - and getting 30+ mpg in spite of a 26 mpg EPA rating. A friends E320 CDI would blow up at about 4,500 rpm. But if I were in the market for a pre-owned 911, I'd rather buy one from someone that made every shift at 4,500+ rpm rather than someone who lugged it around at 1,500 rpm in 6th gear around town to save a nickel in gas.
A steady diet of Mobil 1 helps too.
Perhaps, but my comments apply to the Boxster's transmission specifically.
I'm sure the rear-engined 911 uses a completely different gear box than the mid-engined Boxster.
The Tip on the Boxster holds a gear in a turn, blips the throttle to match revs perfectly before a downshift, and lets you use engine braking on a down hill, it basically did what I would have done (or tried to) if I had a manual.
Like I said, I'd still prefer the manual, but the Tip doesn't spoil the car by any means.
There may be a slight difference in gearing ratios, but the 5-speed Tiptronic in the Boxster and 911 are essentially identical from a mechanical perspective, and cost an identical $3,440.
but the Tip doesn't spoil the car by any means.
Well, not if throwing away $10,000+ and getting lower gas mileage isn't a "spoiler" for you. It would be for me.
Base Boxster Manual: MSRP $45,600; 0-60 5.8 seconds; EPA 23/32 mpg.
Base Boxster Tiptronic: MSRP $49,040; 0-60 6.7 seconds; EPA 21/28.
Boxster S Manual: MSRP $55,500; 0-60 5.2 seconds; EPA 20/28.
Boxster S Tiptronic: MSRP $58,940; 0-60 5.8 seconds; EPA 20/27.
As you can see, you could get a base Boxster with manual transmission that would be as quick as your friend's Boxster S Tiptronic for $13,000 less - and get 15%+ better gas mileage to boot.
Mind me asking - why did your friend get a Tiptronic instead of 6-speed manual? Unless he is physically disabled, I cannot for the life of me figure out why someone would get a high end 2 seat sports car, pay $9k extra for the more powerful "S" model, and then castrate that addiditonal power with a $3.5k slushbox. And, good as it may be, make no mistake - the Tiptronic is a torque-converter slushbox, not a DSG or SMG.
The only person I know that had considered a Tiptronic 911 was talked out of it by the dealer who enrolled him and his wife a deal to go to the Porsche performance driving school together for the same total price as the Tiptronic would have been. They both couldn't be happier and, as he says, it saved him the cost of a divorce as well.
Great example - who would pay so much more for so much less?
Besides, Porsche owners don't think like that. They're not bargain hunters looking for the lowest price. If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
I'm not sure if my friend even knows how to drive stick. Probably because he commutes from Fairfax VA to DC every day. Tell you what, I'd take the auto in that sort of traffic any day!
No other Boxster shopper is going to try the Tiptronic, and then say, "Gee, I have to have that transmission!". Who needs a stick!
Of course, that goes for just about every other car, now that I think about it.
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May influence a few buyers.
But, it isn't going to make them want to buy an automatic Boxster.
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To stay slightly on topic - I do prefer a manual in heavy traffic. Or did until I escaped from the DC area to SD.
I actually had to sit through a light for more than one cycle a few weeks ago (first time in years). Maybe it is time to move again.
Gosh - I leave it in 2nd gear the entire time. If I need to scoot into a spot or get over a lane, it happens instantly with no lag. 2nd gear on most cars covers 5mph-30mph just fine.
These are the conditions where a manual shines. Despite what you hear from people all the time who either don't know how to drive manual correctly - if at all.
Oh - and I don't have to hit the brakes more than a few times, either.
Somewhat true, but not much. About 70% of the price differential between a Boxster and Boxster S goes straight to the engine.
Besides, Porsche owners don't think like that. They're not bargain hunters looking for the lowest price. If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
That's exactly what some Porsche dealers would like you to think. I "asked" around and found a dealer willing to give me a $10,000 discount on a 997 model 911S Cab when several other dealers acted like a $2,000 discount was a big personal favor. I don't think being able to afford a Porsche means one should throw their financial prudence in the trash.
I'm not sure if my friend even knows how to drive stick. Probably because he commutes from Fairfax VA to DC every day. Tell you what, I'd take the auto in that sort of traffic any day!
We live in DC. Fortunately I don't have a daily rush hour commute, but I have to deal with enough Beltway traffic as it is. Not only did that never make me think twice about getting a stick, my wife now wants to test drive the new Cayenne V6 6-speed. She likes our MDX, but hates the slushbox (it was her first automatic in 30 years). As many posters here have said many times before, replacing a crisp 6-speed manual with a slushbox doesn't necessarily make traffic jams any less frustrating.
As far as your friend possibly not knowing how to drive a stick, don't tell him I said so, but that's probably a good indication he doesn't know how to drive a Porsche, either. I myself am thinking of taking the Porsche performance driving school - but at least I meet the pre-requisite of knowing how to drive a stick. Porsche doesn't use any Tiptronics in any of their classes.
P.S. I'm not trying to go [non-permissible content removed] for tat with you. I know that you said you would probably personally prefer a manual. I just wanted to offer my counter-opinion that the 6-speed manual in the Boxster and 911 is so good, that the going with a Tiptronic is even more difficult to justify, not less.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
****
Unless you have the most gutless car on the planet and miserable gearing, you stay OUT of first. Always. You keep it in second gear and keep it rolling a tiny bit. There's a real technique to doing this, but it's very effective. No brakes needed, either. You do leave some space, but since most decent manuals can start in 2nd gear, we're literally talking about 1-2mph to stay out of first gear. Then you don't need to shift out of second.
I do that sort of commute every day on my way home for 4-5 miles before I switch freeways. And it's never a problem as long as I avoid first gear like the plague.
Replace "boon" with "bogus excuse". IMO, the biggest boons to automatics are (1) laziness, (2) ignorance and (3) apathy.
I think it is ignorance more than laziness. I really don't feel like its any more effort for me to drive a manual transmission. I have been driving one for about 15 years, I don't think about it, unless I am in a low traction situation or something, where I am happy to have the additional control.
All that stuff leaves the driver no time or attention to keep the car in the right gear, or even in the lane at least half the time.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'll add a fourth. (4) lazy, ignorant and/or apethetic parents that set a bad example and don't teach their kids how to drive a stick.
According to one of our teacher friends who used to instruct at a defensive driving school in the summer, kids that learned how to drive a stick early, consistently did better at accident avoidence maneauvers they taught at the school. At one point they wanted to switch to manuals for the course, but, because the parents are given the test at the beginning of the class, too many didn't know how to drive a stick themselves. His position is that anyone - parent or child - that finds driving a stick too challenging or requiring too much coordination is a disaster waiting to happen on the Washington Beltway and they shouldn't be issued a drivers license.
P.S. When one of my wife's friends questioned him on that position a couple of years ago and climed she was a "great" driver (she can't parallel park without tying up traffic for 5 minutes), he invited her to take the test. In front of several parents and students, she came in dead last and hit more cones than she missed. She was subsequently banished from carpooling for school field trips. Her car (Mercedes E320) looks like it's been parked in Bagdad for a year. There isn't a panel without a dent somewhere. I don't think she's safe driving a golf cart. If the ability to drive a manual as a pre-requisite for getting a driver's license, she'd definitely be walking and the world would be safer.
a manual also gets better fuel economy and provides better control / options under adverse weather conditions.
a manual generally is more reliable and less prone to fail / wear.
manuals are typically cheaper vehicles to purchase and maintain.
With an auto you're only using one foot. With a manual you need two.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
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your coasting-down-hill question is the best way to understand this. it is not the battery driving the engine, it is the potential energy from gravity doing it - by being converted to kinetic energy.
ie: coasting downhill at 30 mph give about 120 mpg. These mpg numbers for coasting are so high that shutting off the fuel (while it does provide a benefit) is not enought to offset the extra coasting that may be gained.
A combination is probably the best. If you are coasting so fast that you need to use the brakes, then you should be in gear. On the otherhand if the light just turned red 400 yards away coasting in gear will mean you stop fairly quickly, while popping into neutral will get you to the light while using hardly any gas.
Keep in mind that coasting may have an adverse effect on you windows guides - right Blufz.
I remember it being a growing problem there in Pierre when we left in late 2005.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
How does traffic in AZ compare?
You are probably a little closer to a Kia dealer now.
So driving is nice and mellow here. Driving over in Tucson can be a challenge. It's the city where sudden U-turns can surprise you as you take right hand turns. One guy screamed in to a U-turn one day just as I was taking a right turn after a stop. Talk about heart attack city! Tucson's up to a million people now so we definitely have a big city fairly close by. Phoenix is closing on 3,000,000 people and is about 200 miles NW of us. One does need to pay attention while driving in Arizona but I find it better than Washington state driving. Not nearly as frenetic as Seattle driving, and not nearly as bottle-necked on the freeway with stop-n-go driving, now the norm in Seattle.
I've traded my '01 Kia Sportage 4X4 in on a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. I love this new Lancer GTS but would entertain a Kia purchase again in the future sometime. Love their value and fun.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And you can't rest either one in stop-n-go traffic with a manual. With an auto you can at least rest one of them.
I thought I might have been more sympathetic after having ACL replacement surgery last fall. But even though I needed to use crutches to handle steps for a 10 days after the surgery, I was able to drive a stick after 72 hours, brace and all. As such, the "rest one leg in traffic" will always be a sorry [non-permissible content removed] excuse for buying an automatic, in my book. And it's often used by people that could use more exercise, not less.
Stepping on a clutch a few times a day does not constitute "exercise", I hope you did not mean to imply that it does. In order to get exercise one has to actually get out of the car. With regard to the topic, telling people that they will be getting exercise by playing with a clutch is not going to save the manual transmission either :P .