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And if i got 18" of snow in the driveway, of course I will bring out the snow blower. But with the new england weather, you can get 18" of snow while you're snoozing at home or at the office.
Plus you don't need 18" of snow to get stuck, with the right combo of snow/ice/rain/temp, 3-4" is all it takes.
And Jeffy, by looking at your ride, it doesn't seem to me you live in a state with crappy weather and bombed out streets. I would love to have rims and tires like yours but unfortunately it would not last 1 week in boston winter.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
james (confirmed manual driver, 2wd Tacoma V6 5-spd)
An example may help.
For instance, when you are climbing a steep hill, say you have cruise control on, it will use significantly more fuel to maintain the current pace vs. the amount of fuel used on a flat surface.
On a down hill, it's vice-versa. The ECU can cut fuel entirely, and the engine will still maintain your pace.
If you drive a car with a trip computer you'll notice the instant MPG readout drop significantly on an uphill and then spikes to the max on a down hill.
My van at about 65 will often get 28-30 mpg on flat ground. On a climb that drops in to the teens. On a down hill or when I disengage cruise and coast down to a slower speed, the trip computer will spike up to 99 mpg.
Basically your momentum, and not added fuel, is keeping you going.
In neutral, the engine must consume fuel to keep going, else it would simply stall.
So you will obtain better gas mileage staying in gear, even though the amount is so small you probably could not measure a significant difference.
Cheers. :shades:
on topic: every automatic that I've ever driven was a disappointment.
When you look at very high torque cars the manual is often the slower one.
Don't get me wrong, I'd still opt for a manual, but my friend owns one with an auto and I swear that thing was capable of mind-reading.
I'm pretty sure that his Boxter is an auto. I should drive it up the North Umpqua Highway (one of C&D's 10-best drives) to Crater Lake (one of my 10-best natural wonders). Could be fun. :shades:
james
I hear the Porsche Tiptronic is nice, a great example of a modern autobox, but I'm waiting for the twin clutch DSG-type shifter.
Two clutches is better than one.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
If by my ride, you are referring to the modified Fusion pictures I stored in the carspace thingy...that is not mine. I just put those there to use them in another discussion forum (post was regarding the improved appearance with the de-chroming). I live in WI, so...yeah, we have winter and crappy roads, too.
Actually, last time I was (temporarily) stuck in snow was about 15 years ago in a manual transmission Plymouth Voyager in my kid's school parking lot.
They plow around here pretty quickly, so winter is more about slipping and sliding than it is about plowing through deep snow. However, I did read in my Mazda6 owner's manual that the automatic transmission does allow you to start-up in second gear...so I guess that would help in a stuck situation. Not really something I worry about, though and I would venture to guess than very few (likely number is about 0) manual transmissions are sold because the buyer believes they will better avoid getting stuck in winter.
I can assure you that it is at least 1!
So you would buy an automatic, except that you are worried about getting stuck in snow?
I consider traction control an essential option with an automatic, whereas with a manual, it is supurfluous gadgetry.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You can say that again! It is amazing how much junk they have to add to automatic-equipped cars just to get near the functionality of manuals.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Same with the Dodge Viper.
That kills the idea of manual control, when the car isn't letting you choose the gear you want.
I might still get a manual but I'd find a way to disable that 1st-to-4th issue.
1 asses the driving environment and determine the appropriate gear.
2. Implement selection as required.
3. Go to #1
to drive an automatic:
1. asses the driving environment and determine the appropriate gear.
2. Anticipate the probale response of the transmission to the driving environment,
3. Develop a strategy to induce the automatic transmission to shift, or not shift, as may be required.
4. Operate gear selector, throttle, shift program selector, traction control switch, etc. to implement strategy.
5. Develop plan B in the event that the transmission does not respond as anticipated.
6. Using both hands on the wheel, attempt to regain control.
7. Go to #1, or call for a tow, as applicable
I thought all you had to do was cram it, to get it to slide into 2nd? I know it guides you over towards 4th, but I thought you could override that with a little elbow grease?
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The truth is, it's more like this:
to drive an automatic:
1. hit the gas.
Period. That's it. You let the transmission sort out what gear to be in. That's the whole point.
The better ones (like Porsche's) do a formidable job of selecting gears for you.
In fact I'd venture to say that Tiptronic is actually better at choosing gears than the average driver.
As I said "I would venture to guess than very few (likely number is about 0) manual transmissions are sold because the buyer believes they will better avoid getting stuck in winter." The meaning of that statement is that the exact same number of manuals will be sold, whether or not there is any advantage in gettting unstuck.
What is going to change the direction, which is clearly toward fewer and fewer manual transmissions? It surely is not greater "control" or better winter drivability.
Of course! If the transmission is not in the gear that I deem appropriate, it is WRONG for my purposes.
And again, since I don't have a $200k-$300k annual income, a Boxter S is irrelevant to me.
I found myself yelling at the car without realizing it. I wanted it to move. NOW. I wanted it to respond. NOW. I wanted it to stop moving up and down gears and finally in a fit of frustration, started manually shifting the automatic(collumn shift). Twenty miles of slow driving up and down hills and such. In a manual, I'd have left it in second the whole time.
I swore that I'd never again own an automatic.
I sold the Buick and bought a 1967 Mercedes with a 4 speed gearbox. Incredible car, actually.
It amazes me at the number of armchair drivers who repeat the same "Manuals are bad in traffic" mantra without actually experiencing it themselves. It's exactly the opposite of what people who don't drive manuals think. Automatics are better on open roads and highways where you can cruise, but are worse in traffic. Manuals are made for exactly this sort of urban situation. Sure, you have to actually use both feet when you drive - oh the horror! But, a manual will allow you to do everything quicker and easier when it comes to actually *driving* the car in situations where you need control.
Gosh - it's *so* hard to leave my 5-speed in second gear as I grind through downtown L.A... :P
P.S. The Boxster with automatic is good, but trust me on this... the manual version is a vast improvement. We're talking twenty foot chasm worth of difference. It's one of the least expensive ways to feel like you are driving a supercar. "Oh My God" is usually the first thing out of your mouth if you are used to driving Accords and the like.
But people RECOGNIZING the improved control and driveability would.
A couple more things you might do as you "asses the driving environment" in an automatic.
Step on the gas more if you want to go faster, less if you want to go slower, coast if you want to go even slower, step on the brake if you want to go even more slower,...pretty complicated.
Gee, before we heard about how only people who are too dumb to figure out how to really drive would choose an automatic, now instead we find out it is actually way more complex than driving the manual :surprise: .
I've not suggested that anyone is "dumb" nor criticized anyone's driving skills. But we apparently expect different things from our cars, and that's OK. An automatic transmission does not provide ME what I need, consequently, there will likely remain a future for the manual transmission in MY fleet.
Chill...............
We can stop the thread right here, right now. That is EXACTLY correct.
Sad thing is, you're talking about the purposes of 7% of the american car buying public.
The other 93% are happy to buy an automatic and follow jeffyscott's insightful advice.
Side note - manually shifting out of overdrive and into "D" or 3rd in most automatics will cure this last behavior at the least. GM and Ford are notorious for the torque converter from hell that locks up at 30-35mph and takes over a second to actually get out of the way when you downshift. "wide open throttle lag" is a term which nobody with a manual ever has to experience.
Try a modern, competitive one. They've gotten much better.
Same thing. Same miserable 1970s technology torque converter. Now, the new gearbox in the VWs is actually getting closer to a proper automatic(they call it semi-automatic, but it's still automatic in my book). But most cars just stink.
A bit harsh, no? I mean, when was the clutch invented? If you're going by age the clutch is far older.
You are overlooking more ratios, closer ratio spacing, smoother shifting, better shift maps, far better effiency, manual shift controls, etc.
They are far from perfect, but they are also far from 1970s 3 speed automatics.
I am one more that thinks a manual is far superior in the snow. You can always shift up a gear as soon as you start to lose traction and suddenly you have traction again. The added control over your drivetrain makes a nice difference.
Also much easier to rock when you get stuck.
Also definatly agree about many of the 93% buying a manual if one were available. A lot of poeple give up because the type of car they want does not have a manual option. I would have bought a manual minivan if one was still made (the Mazda 5 only seats 6 - 4 adults).
Also agree about traffic - I hate driving an automatic in stop and go traffic. The tranny is always jumping around and if I need to dart over to another lane real quick I am never sure how long the tranny will pause. With a stick I can leave it in second gear and that is good from a crawl to about about 20 mph or more.
Yes I have driven a modern automatic. My brother has an 05 530i that I have driven and to be honest I prefer my 07 Accord I4 with a stick shift. The tranny makes my car just about as fast, gives me much better mpg and makes the car more fun to drive. The automatic totally ruins the 530i in my opinion.
Not to knock my brother (the only one the family with an automatic) because he actually ordered a stick through military delivery, but they goofed and shipped an automatic. They did not charge extra for the auto since it was their mistake.
As far as skill required to use a manual - yes there is some skill, but if you can walk you can master it.
I like driving a manual because it is FUN! And I save a boatload of money on gas. (My hyper mileage in NOVA stop and go traffic in my 2007 Matrix 5-speed is 41 MPG.) And almost no one gets to drive my car because they CAN'T
I will say that it has been my observation that the MT drivers tend to be a bit better drivers because they must be more aware of what is happening in the car. They tend not to multi-task behind the wheel. And let me tell you, if you're hyper miler, listening to the radio is a stretch. You really have to pay attention to what is going on all around you.
Now, before the AT drivers jump on me, I am NOT saying that AT drivers are not careful drivers. BUT, driving a MT requires constant attention to the basics in a way that driving a AT does not (although it should).
I can't tell you how many young drivers I know want to learn how to drive a stick. TEACH YOUR CHILDREN!!
I had one of each when I lived in Anchorage and don't recall getting stuck in either the 5 speed Tercel or the FWD minivans (except for the time I put the Tercel in a small ditch and had to chain up to get out).
When we'd get a big dump of snow, either vehicle would plow out of the subdivision ok. I used to have trouble with one parking space on an incline in the Tercel - the minivan had more weight over the front axle I guess and it didn't balk as much. The city finally went around every fall and ripped the meters off that street and banned winter parking on that block entirely.
I like manuals, but I think the winter advantage may just boil down to the tires and the driver.
Right now they have to settle for shifting the stick while I drive and operate the clutch - only when there is no traffic around.
Yeah, but the clutch needed no improvement, while the automatic was so far from perfect that perfect was out of sight beyond the horizon! ;-)
At least Sube continues to make manuals readily available, eh? Although I was not too pleased that the recent Legacy Special Edition was auto-only (was it the Legacy wagon? I think it was).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Is the point here that if the majority does something, it must be correct?
I have a <20 minute commute with no traffic and a couple of the roads are actually fun to drive. I think I am in a 10% minority based on that alone.
If I lived in Brighton and commuted to Ann Arbor every day via US23, that is a miserable, mind numbing drive that can take a long, long time depending on road construction and traffic. I think that would make driving not so fun, and I would be much less particular about my car or my needs would be based solely on fuel economy and comfort.
Sorry, I own a 911S and Porsche's $3,400 Tiptronic, while better than most other slushboxes is still a slushbox. In the case of the Boxster S, adding Tiptronic slows it down to the same performance as a base Boxster with a manual transmission. Same with the 911. So, in addition to paying $3,400 for a slushbox, you are effectively wasting the $6,000+ you pay for the extra 30+ horsepower an "S" model gives you. And then, to really add insult to injury, try reselling a Porsche with a Tiptronic and you'll get slapped again.
I think you were enamored with the car. You need to drive a Boxster S 6-speed manual.
P.S. The new 911 Turbo with Tiptronic is a different transmission and supposedly faster than the manual. However, that's because of a "launch control" feature that allows you to spool up the turbo's before launch. Everyone that I know who has driven the 911 Turbo still strongly prefers the 6-speed.
So, am I right to credit the MT, or did the EPA just screw up when they tested my legacy?
Add one person you don't know to that list - me. I own a 2007 911 Turbo 6-speed. And I have driven the Tiptronic version on several occassions. The 6-speed is the only way to go for anyone who wants to use the car as the Porsche engineers really intended.
I don't know about the Legacy but over in the Accord mileage thread, automatic folks beat the EPA estimates all the time. So do us manual drivers.
Actually, on the highway, the gear ratios are such that the automatics rev lower at the same speed than the manuals. Manufacturers seem to think that us stick folks can't deal with lagging the engine while using cruise control.
I still beat the EPA estimates all the time... usually by a large margin.