Mystery car pix

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Comments

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2011
    I've seen references in war novels about people running vehicles on charcoal in the UK too.
  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    edited April 2011
    Probably true. There were many vehicles converted before or during WWll:

    "The charcoal burner would burn gases produced by heated wood. The burner had a two part system: a closed chamber with chunks of wood in it, and a charcoal burner to heat the closed chamber and make the wood generate gases by a process called pyrolysis.
    Flammable gases produced by pyrolysis are then routed to a carburetor of sorts, mixed with air, and burned in the engine’s combustion chambers. "

    Probably wouldn't pass a smog test today. :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep---they were called "wood gasifiers" and they were used before WW II. Originally invented in France I believe. I think there is a Model 170 wood gasifier in the Benz Museum.

    The principle of it sounds pretty neat, but in reality, it is neither efficient or reliable--it would be somewhat of a last ditch effort. Not only is performance spotty, but it burns a helluva lot of wood.

    I hope this post doesn't generate a new craze of modifying old Mercedes 300Ds to burn fenceposts and pallets.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,671
    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'm converting my Mercury Grand Marquis to "holzgas." I'm going to pull studs out of the walls of oil speculators' mansions to power it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Can't see the whole picture, but I spot a 1957 Plymouth, a 1956 Chevrolet Bel Air two-door sedan, a 1955-57 four door sedan next to it, the rear of a 1955 Chevrolet two-door hardtop - can't tell if it's a Bel Air or 210, a 1955 or '56 Oldsmobile, what might be a 1953 DeSoto, and an MG TD.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Anytown, USA, 1959?

    I'll call out the MG-TD
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Just watch out for McMansions, you'll only get plywood, Chinese drywall, and some particleboard :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I could only imagine how noxious those emissions would be! They would make an out-of-tune 1941 Nash that burned oil and had bad head gaskets seem like a Prius.
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Charcoal Gas Producers were used extensively in Australia from the 1930's to the late 1940's especially during the second world war. Although Australia has extensive oil and gas reserves, they were unknown at that time, meaning that Australia was dependent upon imported fuels. during wartime, the scarcity of fuels became more severe and home grown fuels were necessary. Experiments with Shale Oil had been only partially successful.

    The gas producers were used on tractors and agricultural machinery during the 1930s but were used on cars during wartime.

    My mother grew up in a very isolated Outback town where fuel was even scarcer and producer units were common. Drivers would have to plan to light the unit some time before a planned journey and would have to refuel regularly.

    There was a severe problem with coking of valves, with engines requiring strip down and regrinding of head, valves and valve seats very regularly ( I think dad said something like every 1,000 miles which seems an extraordinarily inefficient exercise!).

    As an entirely irrelevant aside, the red outback dust was also ingested into the engine, through inefficient air filters. In turn, it wore out cylinder bores rapidly and formed a glaze on the piston top and cylinder head. If it built up sufficiently, it decreased the chamber size, increasing compression at the same time as the cylinder wall were being scratched out. A great way to ruin an engine

    Cheers

    Graham
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    edited April 2011
    >Can't see the whole picture...

    Just click on this link. On my IE8 it's only showing about 1/5 of the picture!

    http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/04/RuebenGreen_1500.jpg

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    Sorry Andy - it is bodied by Ghia but isn't a Pegaso.
  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    edited April 2011
    Sorry Andy - it is bodied by Ghia but isn't a Pegaso.

    Looks like a Fiat V8, or more correctly 8V Supersonic....
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,793
    I just finished the book 'An Honorable German' literally a few hours ago, and there was a reference to wood burning vehicles .
    Found it, page 224. 'A Ford truck with a wood burner mounted in front of the radiator a year back'.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited April 2011
    for our "mystery car" rules because it is made DURING WW II, not postwar, but I picked it out because it shows one of these wood burning devices. Not the most elegant installation but no worse than a continental kit we see at car shows here in the USA :P
    image



    I guess up on the roof is the....what? :confuse:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Peugeot 402. Similar styling to the 202, which did live on after the war.

    Maybe the roof thing is for wood storage? I don't recall any kind of roof tank on the German versions I have seen.
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    The roof mounted object is a gas reservoir. The plant produced gas at a pretty even rate so it had to be held in a reservoir which was usually a flexible bag in a cabinet. Sometimes, the bag was unrestrained leading to weird cartoons of the time.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I was going to say that this would make being strafed rather dangerous but then I realized that it was rather dangerous even without a gas tank on the roof. :P
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,793
    maybe they would have bypassed you, thinking it's got to be some kind of trick. :surprise:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    right! we're packin' ground to air missiles in that pod!
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,671
    Is the car an Adler?

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    edited April 2011
    Tow your flexible wood gas producer behind your Explorer?

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,496
    Figures it would be the owner of a 70's SAAB doing that!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    Yes, it's a Fiat 8V Ghia Supersonic, circa 1953.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    edited April 2011
    During the war they had similar arrangements on essential vehicles here - including buses - I think the main bus companies were supposed to run a percentage of their fleets on gas, as opposed to petrol or diesel, but the combination of lack of performance, technical issues like leaks and probably safety issues - a flexible bag of flammable gas on the roof of a bus full of people doesn't sound too clever - they tended to be unpopular. The steady rate of production of the gas did mean some of them could dispense with the bag and just run at a steady speed - its a bus after all - but I do recall reading that the little trailers the buses towed, which had the burner thing on them, were also prone to catching fire.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...wood burners on my Grand Marquis, it would be a long time before I ran out of fuel. I live 1/2 block from perhaps the biggest park in Philly! If you walked in there, you'd swear you were in the middle of a forest instead of a city.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited April 2011
    Not a bad guess but it's a Peugeot 402.

    Oh, I can just SEE that Saab owner, with his pipe, his pocket protector and his slide rule---LOL! "Back then", that was the image of the typical Saab owner---an intellectual with his head in the clouds.

    Now, even Saab doesn't know who its owners are. :P

    I think wood-burners would be a last desperate act for any country---prior to that, cars would merely get smaller and lighter as energy costs rise. (it's no coincidence that the VW Beetle was born when and where it was born).

    We might end up burning lots more coal in the boonies, though, to power the electric cars of the urban elite. There's lots of coal in the ground still.

    But yeah, if you see people chopping down trees in the city parks to fuel their cars, it might be a good time to consider emigrating to Australia. :)
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    edited April 2011
    "I think wood-burners would be a last desperate act for any country"

    Well, next-to-last, maybe:

    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    image
  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    edited April 2011
    Wow, bet that rides a little stiffer than the average Regal.....And how would you get in that thing?
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    subtle....
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    DSCN5759">
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    Matra 530 at left, Matra Murena at right
  • wgraferwgrafer Member Posts: 592
    Talk about rare and obscure brands! Matra?????? Come on guys. This isn't 'Stump The Chumps' from Click 'n' Clack.................
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    Those are just about the only kind of brands that last more than a few minutes. If we didn't have obscure, we wouldn't have much of a thread...
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    Yes, fin, right on both counts... It really was a good show.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    On the other hand I've never heard of Click n Clack....
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    Sorry this is a bit dark
    DSCN6121">
  • lostwrench1lostwrench1 Member Posts: 1,165
    edited April 2011
    I was a Puzzler winner! (Brag, Brag).
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,793
    On the other hand, it could have been an early attempt at the ultimate tailgate partymobile. :shades:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Sorry this is a bit dark
    image

    Is this a little better?

    image

    I'm not sure it realy helps identify it any more easily though. ;)
  • wgraferwgrafer Member Posts: 592
    Lostwrench--I am truly impressed! Those Puzzlers mostly make my head spin!

    And Magnette, Click & Clack are 2 brothers that host a long running radio show in the US on Public Radio called 'Car Talk'. It's kind of a humorous show where they dignose car problems (or marriage problems) from callers. You can probably stream their show from any NPR station website (my local station/site is WLRN in Miami).

    Now about that dark pic of the weird car with semi-'57 Plymouth fins and the strange c-pillar, is it a Vauxhaul?? (of course I've never seen any vehicle that looks like it).
  • tmarttmart Member Posts: 2,403
    Click and Clack also have a newspaper column in the Houston Chronicle.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,793
    whatever it is, is doesn't fit the wording the back glass.
    Rassig = German for racy, hot blooded, sexy.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,671
    German indeed, it's a Lloyd Arabella.

    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,414
    The column is syndicated, evidently.... Also in the Cincinnati Enquirer...

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  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    Yes, it's a Lloyd Arabella, although they were also marketed as Borgward Arabellas in some markets, I believe. I think the one you illustrate is a deluxe, or even TS version, because of the chrome strip down the side, absent from what I think was the basic version in my picture. They actually made over 45000 Arabellas between 1958-63, and I can recall they were even seen in Britain in the early 60's - every one I can recall seeing had red body with a black roof...I spoke to the guy who owned this car, and the red/black combination is quite common, particularly among the surviving cars, because two-tone paint was generally only for the better models, and as with most cars, it is those that survive into preservation, not the basic models. This guy had his from an uncle or father-in-law, and it was pretty unmolested from new.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    Not sure about the racy, sexy, etc - it's a pretty little car, a scaled down late fifties sedan, like a half size Chevy or Vauxhall Cresta, but only an 897cc engine - though, in fairness, that was a flat 4 boxer configuration, so probably quite a nippy little thing for its day.
    I think the ones I saw in Britain were mostly brought back from Germany by returning servicemen, as I recall Borgward Isabellas were generally - the import duties on cars from Germany in those days made direct sales into Britain pretty expensive.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,234
    I learn something every time I access this website - not just directly about cars but all this sort of stuff too. I'd never heard of Click n' Clack, but will look out for it in streaming radio.
    My pictures from my trip to Essen three weeks back include loads that either don't qualify for this site because they are too rare (i.e. unique) or too old - mainly pre-war. I love the way between us on this forum we get pictures of everything from a bog-standard runabout from the eighties to some rare Japanese micro-car, and someone out there will know what it is. Sometimes the regional variation helps - I'm more likely to know a British 50's car than to tell a Pontiac from a Buick, when you can only see half one wing and a hubcap, but it astounds me how after nearly 30000 posts new stuff comes on every day !
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