Lexus ES 350
Any information on the next generation Lexus ES, which will be the last ES to share a platform with the Camry, according to what've heard on a few other boards.
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Hopefully we'll find out SOMETHING before the last minute...
~alpha
If they came out at the same time, that would cripple the ES, and would not help the LS either, so the release will be early.
I wouldn't wait up for a 300Hp FWD ES, with a 240HP GS above it.
An AWD Hybrid with 300HP for '08-09 is a real possibility.
DrFill
~alpha
The ES is postioned so when and if people get more money, they can move up to the similar oh so smooth driving experience of the LS. The same goes for the IS and GS. That way, Lexus can keep more drivers in the Lexus fold. And if these people have families: RX or GX! And if they have children or guests with no legs: SC! And if they want a big ol' SUV, there's always the LX.
I'm sure that the ES will have the same if not more hp ratings as the Avalon. Otherwise, people would just buy the Avalon.
Also, the ES has the prestige of the slanted L badge, and the great customer service that goes with it. People are willing to pay a premium for that L badge.
Toyota, on the otherhand, has some dealers that treat customers pretty poorly and the buying process is always as enjoyable as getting a root canal.
a) the new Avalon is almost as cushy as an ES
b) cheaper
c) handles better
"""The ES and Avalon have a different target audience. The Avalon is a full sized sedan while the ES is a midsize""
Target audiences are different? That's like saying that the T&C and DGC have different target audiences. Size doesn't mean too terribly much. "Target Audience" is a phrase sometimes used by auto manfacturers to tell people who they would like to buy that car. However, the world that realy people live in and the world of "Target Audiences" is fairly different.
An Avalon costs just about as much as an ES nowadays...
It'll probably have more than 280 horsepower though...
Who needs that much horsepower anyways? 255 horsepower is plenty enough for me, and my car is heavier and longer than the ES... (albeit shorter than the Avalon)
Honestly though, why not 280 horses? Id bemoan a different song if there was an efficiency drop since the last generation, but the EPA ratings have gone up 3 to 4 MPG on the city and highway cycles for the Avalon. If the consumer can have that, and another 70 horses to boot, why not?
The Avalon may cost as much fully loaded as the current ES, but it actually has several features not available on that model, and its model range extends down some 7 grand below where the ES starts. Theres still enough differentation in size, price, customer service, and prestige that I dont really see either cannabalizing the other's sales directly.
-my take
alpha
I agree. The current ES330 is selling briskly despite having only 225 horsepower compared to the Avalon.
I'm deciding between the new ES350 and the new IS250/350.
Lexus shouldn't make the next ES lose its character, which is being quiet, luxurious and refined all around. Lexus has the IS300 to fight BMW 3 series, A4s, CTS, G35.
Basically the only comfortable cruisers in its price range would be:
Lincoln Zephyr
Mercedes-Benz C-Class
Back in 2004 you could have added the Infiniti I35 to the list, but Infiniti axed it...
Rumour has it that Mercedes is planning to build a four door coupe (think CTS) on the C Class platform. The picture I saw was pretty nice, but then so was the upcoming C Class. Heard the new coupe would be called the CLE or CLX.
The engine was not very smooth and the ride was so so.
The interior is like a Buick product, cheap looking.
THe passenger front seat is typical Toyota...not comfortable.
After driving my neighbors ES330...the only thing holding me back is the HP and it's a shade smaller than I like. I currently drive an Acura RL
Meanwhile, photo anyone?
Although I would bet that the next ES will be more aggressive in design and should have a strong family resemblance to the 2006 IS and 2006 GS.
It wouldn't be just for the Camry, the Solara would also get it. Besides you are missing the point, the 3.0L V6 in the current GS is part of the same family as the 3.5L V6 that will be going into the GS and possibly ES & RX. I'm guessing a good part of both engines are similar, therefore the investment in the 3.0L V6 is relatively small. And putting a 3.0L V6 in just the Camry is no big deal. Think about it, Toyota sells 400K Camrys/Solara's just in the US every year, about 20% are V6 sales, therefore that's still alot of V6's they would be producing.
"Also the ES is suppose to give that 'luxury' look and feel to it...not a 'sport' type of feel and look. So i think 3.5 will be with the IS and GS. "
The Avalon isn't a *sport* type of car either yet it has a slightly different version of the 3.5L V6 with 280bhp. Also, the ES currently has a 3.3L V6 as it is, so I don't see them moving back in engine displacement, I only see them going up in displacement.
~alpha
But we are talking about the Lexus ES, not the GS. It's a given that the GS300 will be replaced with the GS350 as soon as the 4.6L V8 is ready. Actually we don't even know that for a certainty. They could very well do like BMW and keep the GS300, add the GS350, then have the GS460.
Back to the 3.0L V6. It makes no financial sense to design the 3.0L V6 just for one model year and really only for a few markets like the US, Canada and probably Europe. That is very light volume.
Regardless, the ES will be the ES350 out of the gates? No, I dont know this with certainty, but I cant imagine Toyota continuing to produce an older, less efficient 3.3L when the 3.5L is available and ready to go. The 3.0L, despite its 20 greater hp than the 3.3L, would be a step in the opposite direction of where the class is going... more power AND torque...(especially given that the Avalon uses it).
~alpha
RX, Sienna, highlander type of vehicle will definately get the Avalon 3.5. Not sure about Camry or ES like passenger car. Which 3.5 will GS use? same as Avalon? Or Not?
According to Lexus web site, GS350 will have 315Hp vs 280Hp for the V8. How many percentage of V8 can they sell??? It will be another year before the new V8 is available. Rummor has it, it will have more HP than the Hemi V8! Let the power war begins...