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They are still working on eliminating a big one that I get to deal with every time I head to Philly or thereabouts. What a pain!
The pro roundabout people were very loud and their main selling point was how popular they are in Europe.
So what? The four way stop sign we had worked just fine for many years.
But they went ahead and installed it. It took THREE tries to get it right. The first one was so small that the city busses and delivery trucks couldn't get through it.
So, they tore it up at I'm sure, great expense and inconvenience and made it bigger.
Still too small!
So, they did it again for the third time.
They figure they can take a firm stance on price and maybe lose a few deals.
They are thinking that the higher profit margins will more than make up for the skinny deals they lost. Just a business decision.
But, if they have a cocky take it or leave it attitude they will end up losing most everyone.
We have bought a couple of cars from the Omaha Lexus dealer and a couple here locally. The ones in Omaha were new and the ones in KC were CPO's. Seems that the local used cars are priced more reasonably as they do not have a monopoly on them.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Feel free to use the story. You might also mention that there have been problems with people yielding to the left. Too many people just rush into the circle with no regard for the rules. I don't even think that some people know the rules.
Richard
For some reason that defies logic, they put a roundabout right in front of the place.
When it first opened they were swamped and the roundabout caused so much confusion by people who had never seen one that they had to station cops to direct traffic.
The one by our house caused a lot of trouble thre first time it snowed. The first cars to arrive after the nig snowfall, couldn't tell where it even was!
Even though there's probably as many Ford dealerships around SW OH as anywhere else in the country, every once in awhile they'll try to hold ADM on a particular vehicle.
I know they tried that when Ford brought out the last T-Bird. Towards the end of that model run, the Ford dealers were throwing a wheelbarrel full of cash to get people to buy them.
I saw the same thing happen when the new SHO came out last year. This year, they're discounting the daylights out of them.
Bottom line, when there's competition with different dealership owners, they work harder to win your business.
Again, regarding the two local Lexus stores, they really weren't interested in making a decent deal, nor even finding a vehicle with the actual options I wanted.
It was, for the most part, "here's what we've got, that's as far as we go".
The interesting part, I love doing business with their other stores (Toyota and Honda). Then again, they try a lot harder to get your business. There's a whole lot more competition for Toyotas and Hondas then there is for their Lexus store.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The best rule on who yields to who is this : When entering a roundabout you must yield to anyone already in the roundabout.
We have a couple of small ones in our neighborhood and if someone is entering from the East, as an example, and wanting to go South, rather than turning right and going around the thing they will turn left and just go South....then glare at you if you honk!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Problem is garage space. Zero turn mower and a Polaris quad
occupy a car space in the garage. So the Escape will have to go
outside and I like it too much to relegate it to outside status just yet.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I usually don't like doing this, but I'm going to have to call in the "Grammar Police" on this one. Richard, the "h" in happy is not capitalized. Another demerit to tidester, or another in a long line of demerits to me as it is acceptable? Looks weird. :confuse:(confuse)
That seems to be a trend with the big dealerships, at least around here. Buy up the independently owned dealership, then put your crazy dealer ad- ons and high doc. fees on every car. Oxmoor Toyota did it with Toyota of Louisville, and their Oxmoor Hyundai did it with Hyundai of Louisville. The Kia Store owns all the Kia dealerships in the area, they are the worst... a $650 advertising fee onto every car.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The slim profits and ever growing costs of doing business have made it impossible to stay in business.
So the "groups" swoop in and do what they think has to be done in order to stay profitable.
This isn't an easy business.
My comments below are in reference to a rdabout vs traffic light intersection.
- they don't use electricity, or require expensive routine maintenance and repair that traffic lights use. This is huge.
- they are far more city fuel mileage friendly than lights
- with lights, one loan car can come up and trigger a set of lights that slows and stops a dozen cars, and 3 tractor trailers (as an example) Consider the time/wages/fuel and wear and tear loss for all those vehicles to get back up to speed again. Again, huge.
- would you rather be bumped by a glancing blow fender bender by a vehicle beside you doing basically the same speed as you, or would you prefer to be T-boned and probably killed? Huge.
- have proper education on how they work in force ahead of time using local TV ads. This isn't a big deal, unless communities fail to do it. Then the idiots that go the wrong-way should suffer huge penalties for wrong-way users. Period. And easily enforced either by nearby cop, or auto-activated cameras.
You guys are lucky if you have a traffic-circle if it's designed right, IMO. They are so rare I can't even tell you where there is one in Cda altho I know they exist, albeit in small numbers.
What is really a shame is when brand new neighbour(bor)hoods, which have the real estate, planning etc all in place before they even build an intersection, still use lights instead of a properly designed rdabout.
Do you guys like to have your progress impeded with your daily commute? I hate having to brake for a light, especially when they are timed to slow traffic flow (you have to speed and accelerate aggressively if you are to catch the next light green) and I hate sitting there waiting for a green. Sometimes you are there alone and there are no other cars at the intersection. Just a poorly managed intersection.
I really think it's wrong to blame a rdabout just because road-users don't know how to use them properly.
But there is one instance where I agree they don't work. It is in already established areas where intersection real estate is already at a premium and you can't plop a rdabout into the same space that once had traffic lights. Of course that isn't going to work.
Also, I think you have to recognize, that in Europe, where there is way more congestion than here (assuming you agree?)...if rdabouts didn't help alleviate congestion, crashes, deaths, then they would get rid of them and use traffic lights. Proof is in the pudding.
Your point about Education is a good one instead of suddenly springing a roundabout where there was never one before and likely the first one a person has ever seen. The Casino one is a great example.
The fact they had to redo the one by uis THREE times pretty much soured me.
I still don't like them but you did bring up some real benefits.
At peak times, they could get jammed, but 95% of the tiem, they were an efficient way to move traffic, even though NJ had already 1/2 baked a few with cut throughs and lights.
so now, at non-peak times, instead of breezing right through, I get stuck sitting through 4 cycles (or more) of lights, by the time you get all the different access roads cycled.
interestingly though they just finished building a new one at the entrance to the county college, to elimnate some lights and dangerous turns across traffic!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I just recently saw that new circle near CCC. My GF is taking some classes there and she said that new exit on 42 and the circle have made it easier to get there
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
I grew up with the rt 23 circles. Again, probably fine when they were built but the population just exploded in that area and they became death traps.
The "T" in Thanksgiving is capitalized because it is a proper noun. "Happy" is the "wish" and is not capitalized unless it comes at the beginning of a sentence. That's probably where you're used to seeing it.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
One replaced an ugly and complicated intersection with a lot of waiting for the lights.
The second one had one road going through while the other two had stop signs. As traffic in this area picked up, it was either a stoplight or roundabout.
The key to this is EDUCATION. I have a hard time believing the people here are smarter than those elsewhere.
Maybe different now.
The ones that would get me were the ones with a "budget" that they couldn't exceed yet they had to have the top of the line models instead of something more practical and more affordable.
Thanks, I've heard that it's a nice car, but I can't handle Black on Black. Especially since I have a dusty gravel driveway...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
St. Louis has replaced Camden, New Jersey as the most dangerous U.S. city, according to a study based on FBI crime data and released Monday.
St. Louis had 2,070 violent crimes per 100,000 residents last year, well over the national average of 429, according to the report issued by social science publisher CQ Press.
Camden ranked second this year, with Detroit, Michigan; Flint, Michigan; and Oakland, California rounding out the top five most crime-ridden cities, according to the report.
No reason was given for St. Louis moving to the top of the crime list.
The safest city, statistically speaking, was seen as Colonie, N.Y., a suburb of Albany.
The CQ report was drawn from FBI crime data that includes murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft.
To stay on topic...if you live in St Loouis, order your car with a CLUB.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think that is actually a good answer. Though, from my own personal experience, when money was in short supply and I had mortgage payments, children etc then I bargained harder. A lot of people buying luxury cars know what they want and are willing to pay for it. Business people can write off a portion of the car any way so you might as well get what you want.....that does become your discount and is probably more than the dealer will give.
But, I do know some people who are very well off, and I sure wouldn't want to try to sell them a car, or anything else for that matter.
I think another factor is that busy professionals or business people might not have the time to mess around for an extra few hundred dollars off...time is money and all that.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Everything is cool in the Lou these days ---not much theft in the suburbs anyway. They do like to break windows for gps units and other valuables displayed proudly inside the vehicle. If you got it and flaunt it, don't cry if you lose it.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
That being said, is you favorite college Vanilla University?
No, I did not misspell Villanova.
Miami(OH) has some new Toyota's parked outside the football stadium by a local dealer.
Did you know Miami(OH) and Miami (FL) are related?
On another note, I remember where I was 47 years ago today.
It was not a good day.
It actually wasn't too bad, but I think they're trying to copy the original too much. They should "Americanize" it a bit.
How are they related?
But one of my pet peeves has been the sportscaster types the last many years who can't see a difference between "Miami University" and "University of Miami." So they started referring to one as "Miami of Ohio." However they don't refer to the other as "Miami of Florida."
Miami University is, well, Miami University. It's bad enough the PC folks got rid of the Redskins mascot name; do they have to butcher the name as well?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Miami(OH) used to be the 'Redskins', before adopting the more politically correct 'Red Hawks' moniker.
Sounds simple enough. They have to move back one year at a time until it fits the budget and includes all amenities required.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
One does get some odd college names for their location with Indiana State and California State both being in Pennsylvania.
It used to be terrible... they had an inner lane that went nowhere... I guess the only reason to use it was to pass a broken down car, but people would get in the roundabout, move to the inside lane, then just go round and round, never able to break back into traffic to get out.. Comical, really.
Then, about five years ago, they rebuilt the roundabout, with proper lane assignments, and now it works perfectly... Yes, there is a learning curve, but that intersection moves major volumes of traffic at a much quicker pace than if they had traffic signals...
I put roundabouts right up there with non-smoking restaurants.. I'm all for them!
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Sorry, but study after study has proven that when done correctly, they are much better, safer, faster than normal lights or stop signs.
http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_lauder_s_new_traffic_sign_take_turns.html
There's another one I'd like to share.... but I can't find it. :-(
IMHO the main issue with traffic circles (or whatever you wish to call them) is when you have two or more major streets feeding into it. This creates a lot of traffic flowing past most entry points making it difficult for novice or timid drivers to enter.
The one near where I grew up worked well simply because it was one major road going through it with the other roads having lighter traffic.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Nope. There has never been such a study. Here's the straight dope on the bumbelbees can't fly myth. Basically, it was an offhand and erroneous comment by a drunken aerodynamicist at a dinner which he retracted later after he sobered up. He then realized that the fixed-wing aircraft analogy he employed was inappropriate when applied to bumblebees.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I actually have plenty of personal experience with them (growing up in Mexico, having lived in Germany, and driven all over Europe, Israel, New Zealand, etc.). Is that enough for you?
At least I got my facts right. Bumblebees can fly.
m6vx, that video of Gary Lauder was excellent. He shows how a 3 way stop costs $50000 a year in gas alone, if you take 3000 cars a day stopping and starting and using 5 cents worth of gas. If you count the time wasted from people not being at work it adds up to $112,000 a year...having a stop sign instead of a traffic circle. Accidents are far fewer, 90% reduction in fatalities with a traffic circle!
I also learned 2 other important things today;
1) You can spell "bumblebee" as one word or two "bumble bee".
2) facsinating information about bumblebees:
John Maynard Smith a noted biologist with a strong background in aeronautics, has pointed out that bumblebees would not be expected to sustain flight, as they would need to generate too much power given their tiny wing area. However, in aerodynamics experiments with other insects he found that viscosity at the scale of small insects meant that even their small wings can move a very large volume of air relative to the size, and this reduces the power required to sustain flight by an order of magnitude.[30]
Another description of a bee's wing function is that the wings work similarly to helicopter blades, "reverse-pitch semirotary helicopter blades".
Bees beat their wings approximately 200 times a second
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2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
One thing I have to question is if a traffic circle would save any of that gas. Everyone I have seen has a stop sign at each entrance. Meaning traffic would have to stop anyway so whats the difference between stopping for a 3 or 4 way stop and stopping for the traffic circle.
Plus there is the issue of having to wait for a break to get into traffic already in the circle so I have to wonder if any time is saved.
As for Bumble bees it was my understanding that aerodynamic engineers testing bumble bees as they would test airplane designs found that the bumble bee aerodynamically unstable and did not fully understand how it maintained flight. A few years ago I saw an article by some engineers stating how they figured out how a bumble bee was able to maintain stable flight. I will have to look into this when I have more time.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There are a boatload of them in Edmonton, where they've been since before 1970, when I learned to use them there. They're a very efficient way to move traffic, so long as people know how to use them, especially if traffic's light, when almost no one has to stop at all.
You never know, if the U.S. (outside of Boston, where they've been forever) can learn to use roundabouts, can the metric system be far behind?
Yeah, probably, but one can always hope.
Miami University is, well, Miami University. It's bad enough the PC folks got rid of the Redskins mascot name; do they have to butcher the name as well?
OK, going way off the topic reservation here (pun intended). As a proud Miami University alum, it does irk me that announcers seem to believe there is no difference between Miami University and University of Miami.
Yet, Ohio State is regularly (and presumptuously as the Ohio State University. Gimme just a slight break.
Miami University is an evolution of the spelling and pronunciation of the Myaamia Indians, which were residents of the general OH, IL, and IN areas. Some were relocated to OK. There is a sizable amount of them still residing in IN.
Personally, I don't know what a RedHawk is. Never head of one. Certainly have never seen one. I do know that the redskins were generally referred to the natives who lived around the Miami River in SW OH. To my knowledge, it was never a derogatory term, redskin. Matter of fact, the Miami Indian population in and around the SW OHIO area never considered redskin to be derogatory. They've said so.
Who decided Redhawk is better would probably be someone who would profit by the change in designation, however.
Also to my knowledge, the Miami Indians were never relocated to FL. Some may have wandered there, however.
OK.....got that off my chest. :shades: