Wifey loves her Denali, but is afraid gas prices are getting serious 16 MPG.
That Audi isn't rated a whole lot higher. "up to" 20 MPG city says to me that you'll probably get nearer to 18 MPG.
First, I don't think anyone saves money by trading in a car, or buying an extra car just to save money on buying gas.
You CAN, but you really have to choose carefully, and, as pointed out here awhile back, don't just look at the difference in MPG numbers. Look at the percentage gain (something about gallons per hundred miles).
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I don't think anyone saves money by trading in a car, or buying an extra car just to save money on buying gas.
No trade here, cash sale. Maybe I should add a few more cars to the possibile list. Luxury with good mileage is what we're after. Her-MPG, Me-Lux.
My ideal garage would house 1 sports car (Mustang), 1 Truck (Denali) and 1 Luxury car. (N/A). I always intended to be driving a Cadillac at this station in life, but GM threw a wrench into that plan. In 1975 I figured they'd downsize the Brougham and that would be my car. But Noooo. They made CTS and DTS...I'd rather drive a Mustang.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I've never driven one - I just happened across that model while looking for a) something luxury-ish, b) in the same price range (slightly higher) than the Camry, c) fuel economy comparable to the Camry, d) not a Camry.
Might not be "the one" for you, but thought I'd mention it.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Don't get me wrong, I support the Keystone pipeline and I think the current policy on domestic energy production is economic suicide. Having said that I have to acknowledge the pipeline's critics who pointout that all the Canadian oil may be sold on the international market and may only benefit the US indirectly if at all.
(I'm trying soooo hard not to talk politics).
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I mentioned at the time that while strolling my Chrysler dealer's back lot in 2009 I saw all the "clunkers" that were turned in. There was a 2002 Kia Sodona van (worst resale value of any car) and an 80s Maserati. Most of the cars waiting to be destroyed were in better shape than my F-150 farm truck.
IMO, C4C was just another government boondoggle that benefited the jmonroes of the world who would have bought cars anyway and took a lot of marginal cars off the road that the poor could have use to get to work. I think in part it contributed, to this day, to the crazy prices I see on Craigslist for sub $2k cars. Such that prior to 2009 it was still possible to get a running car for $500 and now that same car lists for $2000.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"...that 'farmer' guy is looking to eat your lunch..."
Don't worry Fezo, us poor guys stick together. You get to keep all richard's cars if mr. Monroe will give me the matress where he keeps all his hundred dollar bills. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"...if they could make the tanks a little larger..."
They'd have to be a LOT larger. Back in the 90s our school district purchased a number of nat gas fueled buses. They had tanks the whole length of the undercarriage. Range was about 75 miles vs. over 600 miles for some of our diesel buses. Drivers avoided them like the plague. They had serious driveability and reliability problems. The district dumped them as soon as they could.
Nat gas is an abundant cheap fuel if they can solve some of the practical problems.
As far as resistance to fracking, in NY it is from radical environmentalists who have distorted and outright lied about the dangers of this technology so as to push their radical agenda which would have all NY residents living in compounds where they could not interfere with "nature". :sick:
problems.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Thanks, Kirstie That opened up a new avenue. ILX is interesting, but better than that I was referred to the Buick Verano for comparison. Sounds like this has possibilities.
Honda dealer is far far away in a distant galaxy. (Mountain folk here don't drive Hondas) :confuse: They barely let Toyotas in. This is NASCAR country. We're 80 miles from Bristol and 75 miles from Martinsville
entry-level luxury sedan (new phrase) Like a taste of luxury.
radical agenda which would have all NY residents living in compounds where they could not interfere with "nature"
LOL, that was funny.
Natural gas would have to be worked on a bit to make it practical. Somehow, it would have to be compressed.....but, then you would have to make sure you aren't in an accident, or we may never find all of you ever again.
, but better than that I was referred to the Buick Verano for comparison.
Verano sounds like a good choice, but you aren't likely to find a used one, since they are new. Won't that be more like in the $25k range....you will have to go through a lot of gas to save get back your gas savings.
Here in south Florida, many of the buses run on compressed natural gas. I have not heard much about the savings they realize, if any, but at least it is cleaner burning than diesel or gasoline. Hydrogen fueled cars are currently being tested in many countries. BMW has a fleet of 7 series sedans using hydrogen on California. I believe hydrogen is the fuel of the future due to the abundance of its availability (H2O) and the fact that it has 0 emissions (water vapor is the major byproduct of hydrogen combustion).
With the jump in gasoline prices, I started to check on my fuel economy in the GS350. I was surprised to find I am getting 32.7 mpg's on the highway at 65 mph and 21 city with an average combined mpg of 24.6. This was an average of 2 weeks (650 miles). Not that bad considering the weight of the car and it's 306 hp V-6 engine. I'm going to try putting mid-grade gasoline in the tank for two weeks to see if it reduces mpg's or affects engine performance. My guess is that it won't make much difference so long as I stick with Shell or Mobil or BP.
Maybe we will live to see the return of the Stanley Steamer! Who knows what the future holds?
Welcome home *fezo. Rest and take it easy. As your strength returns, I am sure you will exercise - walking being the best way to tone up a little. Good to hear you are well enough to return home. Take care!
Here in south Florida, many of the buses run on compressed natural gas
The thing is there are alternatives, and sometimes man doesn't find them until our back is against the wall. Hydrogen could be the answer, but we will come up with something. Might even be electo magnetic tracks and you will just program the car to take you where you are going, while you watch a movie.
The 535 gets 28 mpg highway and 20 city. That's about 25% more than my 2004 X3 so I feel like I am actually paying about the same or less than I was then for gas. The 535 uses 91 octane medium grade instead of 93 so that's a bit of a savings too.
Is your car supposed to be using premium fuel? My understanding is you are wasting your money if your car can run on regular gas and you use premium. If you are supposed to use premium you may lose mileage and cause some harmful knocking. Today's engines might be able to sense the gas and react accordingly, but it isn't worth fooling around.
That is from the various articles I have read, but I am mechanically challenged.
Yes, *driver, it is supposed to use 91 octane premium fuel, however I have found from previous experiences with Mercedes Benz, you can use mid-grade 89 octane on the short run. I used to mix 91 octane fuel with 89 octane with no I'll effects. I have not tried that with the Lexus. I find that there is a 10-12 cent per gallon difference between the two grades. At $1.50 to $2.00 more per tankful, it probably is not worth the effort, though.
I'll probably stay with premium, now that I've thought it out. The savings does not warrant the uncertainty, to be honest!
Chrysler/Dodge : 65,000 miles, stranded 4 times to witness 4 tow trucks hook up the car. :lemon:
Honda: Never in about 135,000 miles of personal experience (wife included).
Audi: 2006 A3, One time, but that was a half knife blade in the gas tank causing air to enter the tank which was leaking gas slowly, but the engine didn't like the air and shut itself down probably for the good of the car's well being. Can't blame Audi for that. Oh yeah, 91K miles.
Hmmmm...........
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I used to mix 91 octane fuel with 89 octane with no I'll effects.
Once on the way to Florida I accidentally put 89 Octane in the 535 when it is supposed to use 91. I actually think my mileage was off a bit and I didn't use Sport mode very often, just didn't want the engine to overwork trying to make up for the weaker fuel.
These days it is difficult to mix blends, because if you put your card in you would have to do it all twice. The way I see it is 10 cents a gallon more and you will probably save that in better performance and better mileage, so better not to mess with it.
Besides, paying 10 cents a gallon is a bargain for me, in Canada we pay 11 cents more a litre for each grade of premium, and it takes about 4 litres to make a gallon, what a rip-off.
The way I see it the manufacturer does a lot of testing to come up with the most efficient fuel to use, for a buck or two a week it's best not to mess around.
There have been so many posts to read during the last two or three days. My problem is not having enough time to respond to so many. I'll do a brief summary.
1. Most importantly is Fezo: I'm so glad that you're home now, and hoping that the medication will adapt to body functions and aid in the recovery process. As you try to rest and regain your strength, please know that we are all thinking about you.
2. Terminating old people from their jobs? It's a tough call. Some need the work for financial reasons; others just to keep the mind and body going. There is a factor to consider in deciding what to do. We often forget their productive years during which they worked their a$$es off for the employer and made important contributions. They also helped to train the younger crowd that now complains and wants the elderly one removed from the premises. The employer should try to assist by placing the older worker in the least strategic position possible. As far as education is concerned, moving the person to the central office is not the answer. Having worked there, I can tell you that it is a pressure cooker with huge amounts of stress. Also, that's where the real decisions are made---not something that an elderly worker can handle very well. The bottom line is a gradual exit must be implemented with the most respect and dignity that can be afforded the employee. After all, everyone will get old if they live long enough.
3. The energy topic: A president who "walks the walk"? Please! If he only knew where he was going! Like Old Farmer, I'll try not to say much here about politics. After all, I gave this advice to Driver and I must follow what I preach. I do feel that we have an abundance of resources---oil, natural gas, and coal. Oil company lobbyists, environmentalists, foreign relations, and labor unions pretty much control the scene today. Their influence is felt by all of us. Strong leadership in Congress and from the White House is needed. I doubt that will happen any day soon, regardless of who is elected. Politics and money drive the markets by insiders who know much more about what is going on than the typical investor will ever know. As we move more and more toward global integration, I fear that the situation will worsen. Many will want power and control; the masses will suffer as consumers.
4. Camry vs. Audi: Lots of talk as usual about "foreign" cars. It would be nice to hear some "domestic" car stories and observations. The Big 3 are still in business and they do make some very nice vehicles. The new Cadillac is now out---beautiful car for the luxury line. The Ford Explorer still looks good, and the Chrysler 300 sales are doing very well.
5. Andrea: I hate to even ask what a knife blade was doing in your gas tank. Perhaps the Rite-Aid manager was getting even?
6. Driver: You are correct. As a retired person, there are many days that I get up earlier than I need to. Unlike some, I always stay up late. I find that six hours of sleep works fine for me. It always did. I never go to bed until the new day has begun.
Let me get it straight guys - you buy (lease) 50-60 thousand dollar cars and then "condider" using lower grade gas to save money???????????? :sick:
I guess now I know why politicians call handing unenployment checks a "stimulus" with straight face, or call couple of bilion dollars of revenue from "those evil rich" in face of trilion deficit a "good start", or claim that cutting foreign aid will solve our budget, or say that building and buying bombers, or nuclear submarines is good for economy and jobs... (yes, economic illiteracy is bipartisan). Those are same kind of "economies" as lower grade gasoline in high-performance expensive car ...
Sorry for the rant - I couldn'd stop myself. I'm better now, taking medication
Putting lower grade gas into high performance engine causes computer to adjust ignition, in turn reducing performance and often (not always)fuel economy. It probably won't ruin it, but it won't help either. Florida (many other states, too) gas is bad enough with that ethanol junk in it (i.e. its energy value is already lower than it should be, which impacts fuel economy already) - to go grade lower is to retard the performance even deeper.
Toyota is near the top and Audi is near the bottom.
Just for the fun of it I compared the reliability of a 2010 Camry compared to a 2010 Audi. As expected, the Camry comes out slightly ahead. Big deal, if we all only bought things based on reliability we would just all buy the most reliable car of the year....by the way the Hyundai Sonata is pretty high too, about the same if not better than the Camry.
But, for some people, other things are a bigger priority than reliability. I have driven Camry's and they do nothing for me emotionally. I get very little satisfaction from the feeling of being in a vacuum, isolated from the experience of driving.
If someone doesn't care about those things, and just wants good solid reliable transportation, then no doubt, a Camry is about as good as it gets. A driving enthusiast driving a Camry though, I think that is the example in the dictionary of an oxymoron.
We hired a person who was 65 to manage our warehouse, about 12 years ago. He thought he would never work again, though he had excellent references running warehouses in the past.
He was like a gift sent from heaven, loved to work, did the work of 3 people, could organize our distributions, calculated numbers in his head-didn't use a calculator, was extremely honest and very responsible. One time he had a health problem and I thought we would sell the business because we relied on him so much. He recovered and continued to work. I just want to point out that sometimes older people can make excellent employees, in this case couldn't have been better.
Perhaps the Rite-Aid manager was getting even? LOL I find that six hours of sleep works fine for me.
Studies have found that 8 hours is best, not just for performance but to fight off diseases. My wife reads the medical journal every week...the real one.
Did any one see 60 Minutes this weekend? Sugar is a toxic substance that not only causes diabetes, but also can cause cancer and heart disease. They said it is poison. Pretty soon there won't be anything left for me to eat.... :sick:
Speaking of using low quality gas with low octane in a high performance vehicle, just imagine what other "cheap" customers/owners do to their vehicle that could impair its reliability. How about insisting on conventional motor oil when synthetic is specified, and then only changing it every 10K miles?
Or Auto Repair shops that I'm convinced 95% are either crooks or incompetent, and will quote you "Multi ATF Fluid" for a transmission fluid change even if your car has a dual clutch "DSG" type transmission that uses a special oil, not a typical fluid.
I think only "original owners" should be allowed to report on reliability and durability, because people tend to neglect things they don't intend on keeping for a long time.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
IMO, C4C was just another government boondoggle that benefited the jmonroes of the world who would have bought cars anyway and took a lot of marginal cars off the road that the poor could have use to get to work.
Don’t look at me; I didn’t buy under the C4C program. When the C4C program came along, which was in the summer of 2009 IIRC, I had already purchased the Genny (March ’09) with an ’06 Sonata LX as the trade-in. And that ’06 was worth almost double ($6600) the $3500 clunker price.
I think in part it contributed, to this day, to the crazy prices I see on Craigslist for sub $2k cars. Such that prior to 2009 it was still possible to get a running car for $500 and now that same car lists for $2000.
I agree with that but the table should be turning any day now because 3 years adds a lot of older used cars to the market. I think the C4C program was a profit windfall for dealers, because even though on paper it looked like you’d get a very good deal due to the government giving you $3500 on top of any deal that you could make, for the most part, the dealers were not making any deals. Sure, they took off a token 2 or 3 hundred bucks but they didn’t deal like they had done prior to that program. At least that is what I was reading. Come to think of it, I don’t know a single person who bought under the C4C program.
At the time of the C4C program, dealers didn’t have to make deals because there was such an inrush of buyers because the government created an artificially high market demand for new cars.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You get to keep all richard's cars if mr. Monroe will give me the matress where he keeps all his hundred dollar bills.
You must have been watching me toss and turn last night. I think I have a fistful or two of those bills in the wrong place. I’m going to correct that before going to bed tonight. Rather than give some of those lumps to you, I’m going to make a fund transfer. I’ll be depositing those on Mrs. j’s side of the bed. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Putting lower grade gas into high performance engine causes computer to adjust ignition, in turn reducing performance and often (not always)fuel economy. It probably won't ruin it, but it won't help either.
I agree. Computers do a lot of work today and adjusting the timing is just one of them. I think a lot of us remember the old days when, if you tried to cheat, by putting in a lower than specified octane rating than what your car called for, you knew it real quick. It would ping and sometimes badly. That was proof you did a no-no. Today the driver goes along fat, dumb and happy because they don’t hear any pinging but the car is not running at its best.
I think the worst thing that the computers do today is allow the car to run seemingly well when it’s cold. I’ve gotten into this before. Years ago with the carburetor cars and the choke linkage that tried to compensate for cold starts, we all knew that the car was cold and we allowed it to warm up because we knew it wasn’t running the way it should. Not now, today a driver thinks because the car isn’t bucking it is running fine and the engine is warm enough. I say it isn’t because we can’t change the physics that a car should be warmed up before we make moderate and hard acceleration demands from it. Cold oil is not going to provide the needed lubrication for a cold engine even though the computer doesn’t tell us that.
This will always be my rant.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That's the norm. Some people require less and some require more. My sister and BIL are doctors. She requires 9-10 hours per night, but he's like me---only requires six. It all depends on the body chemistry and the biological clock of each individual. Some people even do four or five naps per 24 hour day and don't sleep straight through at night.
Technology has basically gotten rid of the need to warm up vehicles for the following reasons:
Oil - oils are now designed to operate at greater ranges of temperature hence wear is less when the engine is cold when compared to before.
Improved cooling systems - they now work better to warm engines up faster.
Better engine design - engines of yore were pretty sloppily designed with parts that were effected by temperature swings. Today parts don't expand or contract as much. Ever hear a new car clatter in the cold? Probably not.
Fuel Injection - FI allows the computer to provide the proper mixture to the engine based on the temperature. The choke systems were purely mechanical and couldn't do what is possible today.
The best thing to do is start your car, let it run a minute or so and then drive slowly to let everything come up to temp. Also, letting your car sit and warm up doesn't effectively warm the catalytic converter up to operating temp. When driving, your exhaust is warmer and heats the cat up faster.
This is true, but with turbocharging some of the warmup issues are back (lubrication of the tubocharger is more difficult, so winding it immediately to full 20k rpm is generally not a good idea).
But I agree, best way to warm up car is to drive it gently, so all components warm up, not to sit still. With small correction - I pretty much start driving right away, but gently.
As some of you may recall, the passenger side of the convertible was damaged a couple of months ago by what I thought was a grocery cart (buggy to those of us here). Since it happened right on the heels of our move back home, I really didn't have a chance to have repairs done. Now that we have come up for air, I decided to get it fixed. There is an Indy here who is a former student of mine. His body shop has an excellent reputation---does custom cars and race cars. I've seen some of his handy work several times, and he has won many awards.
Upon my visit to his shop, I was informed that it was a car that hit the convertible. He said that the damage was too extensive to have been done by a grocery cart. The estimate for repair is $887.60. Having a $500 deductible, I debated as to whether or not to file a claim. I called my agent for a discussion. My agent said that he would be happy to file it, but that I would be taking a chance. Insurance companies are getting bad about terminating customers these days. His point was that if we had a more serious claim down the road, this small claim would be sitting there on the books. That could cause a termination because it would be a second claim. It makes you wonder why we pay for insurance. At any rate, I decided to pay for the repairs out of pocket.
This incident brought to mind an interesting question. If I wanted to trade the convertible, should I put out the $887.60 expense or just trade it in as is? Naturally, the trade allowance would be less, but would it be $887.60 less---or even more? Let's have some opinions on this.
This is true, but with turbocharging some of the warmup issues are back (lubrication of the tubocharger is more difficult, so winding it immediately to full 20k rpm is generally not a good idea).
Like I said, drive slowing. Spooling up the turbo when cold isn't driving slowly.
The best thing to do is start your car, let it run a minute or so and then drive slowly to let everything come up to temp.
That is the warm up I’m talking about. It only takes a couple of minutes when the engine is cold. When I say cold, I’m talking 20 F and below.
Most people today when they start a cold engine they drive off like it were summer. Like I said, just because the engine doesn’t buck, because the computer prevents that, a cold engine still requires a warm up period. It doesn’t have to be 5 minutes or more like back in the 50’s, 60’s or 70’s but it does require a short warm up period. To me that is common sense.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I would think it would be easier to hold the line with a dealer if you made the repair. You are then presenting a car with no known issues and the dealer is even more inclined to believe that you took good care of the car and offer closer to book. With damage it could appear like you didn't care for the car, which means you may not have done other stuff (despite service records).
As a private seller you could easily let it go, deduct that from your starting price and be more flexible anyway since you would be getting more than the dealer will offer. But then you'll have to deal with all the nuts who populate craigslist and autotrader as was the case with my friend and brother who were selling stuff recently.
I guess it's a sign of the tough economic climate when someone wants you to help them finance your $1700 1999 truck.
What's worse, I don't even have engine temperature gauge on my dash so all I can do is guesttimate
My ’09 Genny has a temp gauge and I like that. However, Mrs. j’s 6 cyl. ’12 Legacy does not. It has a blue idiot light. Obviously it goes off sooner when the ambient temperature is warmer. Right after we got it at the end of November 2011 I let it sit outside just to see when the light goes off. At around the 20 F temp that I use as my barometer, it goes out after idling for around 2 minutes. When I drive it after just a few seconds of idling by the time I’m about 2 blocks down the street the blue light goes off but I don’t have a temp gauge that I would prefer. Since you were a Subie owner you may know what I’m talking about with the blue idiot light thing.
Something that I don’t particularly like about the Subie is how the RPM is a lot higher at startup than any other car I’ve ever owned. The RPM goes up to around 2000 for a few seconds at initial start up regardless of the ambient temp but then drops to something a little less than a 1000 RPM after about 2 or 3 seconds. I guessed right about why this happens because I ask the dealership about it and was told, “that is the way it’s supposed to be because it’s a boxer engine lying on its side. You can’t compare that engine to a standard V6 engine”. Still, being the conservative type that I am, I don’t like to see and hear the high RPM at start up.
Given that you are in Florida, not having a temp gauge and not having to be concerned about cold starts shouldn’t be a real problem for you but I know how you feel about not having a gauge.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Naturally, the trade allowance would be less, but would it be $887.60 less---or even more? Let's have some opinions on this.
I know you said you went to a former student for an estimate and he could be right on with that price. However, I’d get at least one other estimate. If the price is in the same ball park, now you know what the real repair price is. As for trading it as it sits, I have had people tell me several times over the years the dealers say “I could never fix it for that price”. The dealer price was at least 10% higher. It’s never happened to me but that is what I have been told.
The closest I came to something like this was when I traded Mrs. j’s ’06 Sonata with a broken passenger side mirror for the ’09 Genny. After she whacked the mirror I got a dealer price to replace it in ’06. The price was around $270 IIRC but I never had the mirror replaced. I allowed the Genny dealer $300 to make the fix before he put the car on his lot for sale. I remember him saying something like, “I don’t know if I can do it for that price now that we are into ‘09”. I knew he could. In fact, as I have said before, I got $600 more for that car than what he first offered.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If I wanted to trade the convertible, should I put out the $887.60 expense or just trade it in as is?
This is one of those cases in my opinion, where you have nothing to gain by having the dealer deduct it if you go to trade it in. As Gogi said, the dealer will think you don't care about how you treat the car, so it will be worth even less than what the repair will cost.
You would think the dealer could do the repairs for less, like cost price so they will give you more for the car. That won't happen, car dealerships run their separate divisions separately, so the repair shop will bill the garage, and they don't give discounts. It is probably structured that way for tax reasons. I know the Accura dealer that put my shield protection on did it for about half the price the BMW dealer would charge, because they run the garage completely separate from the dealership. You actually pay your bill in a different building, with a different cashier.
Short answer, you will only lose if you ask the garage to have it fixed.
JMonroe is right though, get another estimate, estimates can vary. My friends Maserati had that scratch on the bumper, Maserati gave an estimate of $4000, Accura place did it for $700....and it was fixed perfect!
If I wanted to trade the convertible, should I put out the $887.60 expense or just trade it in as is?
One more observation on why you should get a second opinion. I have noticed that when people buy an existing business or if they start a new business, they have a fair amount of debt. The guy who has been in business for a long time has paid off his start up costs. I think that is one reason this particular Accura dealer is so reasonable. Your students price may be high because of that>
Also, how do you know this student liked you as a teacher :P It may be payback time!
Comments
That Audi isn't rated a whole lot higher. "up to" 20 MPG city says to me that you'll probably get nearer to 18 MPG.
First, I don't think anyone saves money by trading in a car, or buying an extra car just to save money on buying gas.
You CAN, but you really have to choose carefully, and, as pointed out here awhile back, don't just look at the difference in MPG numbers. Look at the percentage gain (something about gallons per hundred miles).
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
No trade here, cash sale. Maybe I should add a few more cars to the possibile list. Luxury with good mileage is what we're after. Her-MPG, Me-Lux.
My ideal garage would house 1 sports car (Mustang), 1 Truck (Denali) and 1 Luxury car. (N/A). I always intended to be driving a Cadillac at this station in life, but GM threw a wrench into that plan. In 1975 I figured they'd downsize the Brougham and that would be my car. But Noooo. They made CTS and DTS...I'd rather drive a Mustang.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
But that RED is so nice to look at. Not to mention the comfortable seats for sitting along the highway.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Looking, not finding. Don't Acuras ride stiff like Honda?
I've never driven a Honda after hearing about the ride.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Editorial review:
http://www.edmunds.com/acura/ilx/2013/?style=101418219&trim=base&sub=sedan#fullr- eview
Review from consumers who've purchased - most are getting higher than anticipated fuel economy.
http://www.edmunds.com/acura/ilx/2013/consumer-reviews.html?sub=sedan
Might not be "the one" for you, but thought I'd mention it.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I think we'd be having a different conversation if "coal-fired" were substituted for electric in the literature and the media.
I'm not holding my breath (for either reason).
as skyrocketing..."
Don't get me wrong, I support the Keystone pipeline and I think the current policy on domestic energy production is economic suicide. Having said that I have to acknowledge the pipeline's critics who pointout that all the Canadian oil may be sold on the international market and may only benefit the US indirectly if at all.
(I'm trying soooo hard not to talk politics).
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I mentioned at the time that while strolling my Chrysler dealer's back lot in 2009 I saw all the "clunkers" that were turned in. There was a 2002 Kia Sodona van (worst resale value of any car) and an 80s Maserati. Most of the cars waiting to be destroyed were in better shape than my F-150 farm truck.
IMO, C4C was just another government boondoggle that benefited the jmonroes of the world who would have bought cars anyway and took a lot of marginal cars off the road that the poor could have use to get to work. I think in part it contributed, to this day, to the crazy prices I see on Craigslist for sub $2k cars. Such that prior to 2009 it was still possible to get a running car for $500 and now that same car lists for $2000.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Don't worry Fezo, us poor guys stick together. You get to keep all richard's cars if mr. Monroe will give me the matress where he keeps all his hundred dollar bills. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Worst time to trade out of a gas guzzler is when gas prices are high. But if you want an Audi try to get her into that new RS5. 450hp. Oh yeah!
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
They'd have to be a LOT larger. Back in the 90s our school district purchased a number of nat gas fueled buses. They had tanks the whole length of the undercarriage. Range was about 75 miles vs. over 600 miles for some of our diesel buses. Drivers avoided them like the plague. They had serious driveability and reliability problems. The district dumped them as soon as they could.
Nat gas is an abundant cheap fuel if they can solve some of the practical problems.
As far as resistance to fracking, in NY it is from radical environmentalists who have distorted and outright lied about the dangers of this technology so as to push their radical agenda which would have all NY residents living in compounds where they could not interfere with "nature". :sick:
problems.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Honda dealer is far far away in a distant galaxy. (Mountain folk here don't drive Hondas) :confuse: They barely let Toyotas in. This is NASCAR country. We're 80 miles from Bristol and 75 miles from Martinsville
entry-level luxury sedan (new phrase) Like a taste of luxury.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Nah... they tried that with trains...
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LOL, that was funny.
Natural gas would have to be worked on a bit to make it practical. Somehow, it would have to be compressed.....but, then you would have to make sure you aren't in an accident, or we may never find all of you ever again.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Verano sounds like a good choice, but you aren't likely to find a used one, since they are new. Won't that be more like in the $25k range....you will have to go through a lot of gas to save get back your gas savings.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Here in south Florida, many of the buses run on compressed natural gas. I have not heard much about the savings they realize, if any, but at least it is cleaner burning than diesel or gasoline. Hydrogen fueled cars are currently being tested in many countries. BMW has a fleet of 7 series sedans using hydrogen on California. I believe hydrogen is the fuel of the future due to the abundance of its availability (H2O) and the fact that it has 0 emissions (water vapor is the major byproduct of hydrogen combustion).
With the jump in gasoline prices, I started to check on my fuel economy in the GS350. I was surprised to find I am getting 32.7 mpg's on the highway at 65 mph and 21 city with an average combined mpg of 24.6. This was an average of 2 weeks (650 miles). Not that bad considering the weight of the car and it's 306 hp V-6 engine. I'm going to try putting mid-grade gasoline in the tank for two weeks to see if it reduces mpg's or affects engine performance. My guess is that it won't make much difference so long as I stick with Shell or Mobil or BP.
Maybe we will live to see the return of the Stanley Steamer! Who knows what the future holds?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Welcome home *fezo. Rest and take it easy. As your strength returns, I am sure you will exercise - walking being the best way to tone up a little. Good to hear you are well enough to return home. Take care!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
The thing is there are alternatives, and sometimes man doesn't find them until our back is against the wall. Hydrogen could be the answer, but we will come up with something. Might even be electo magnetic tracks and you will just program the car to take you where you are going, while you watch a movie.
The 535 gets 28 mpg highway and 20 city. That's about 25% more than my 2004 X3 so I feel like I am actually paying about the same or less than I was then for gas. The 535 uses 91 octane medium grade instead of 93 so that's a bit of a savings too.
Is your car supposed to be using premium fuel? My understanding is you are wasting your money if your car can run on regular gas and you use premium. If you are supposed to use premium you may lose mileage and cause some harmful knocking. Today's engines might be able to sense the gas and react accordingly, but it isn't worth fooling around.
That is from the various articles I have read, but I am mechanically challenged.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thank God. I've been holding my breath this would work out.
Good luck with the long haul now.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes, *driver, it is supposed to use 91 octane premium fuel, however I have found from previous experiences with Mercedes Benz, you can use mid-grade 89 octane on the short run. I used to mix 91 octane fuel with 89 octane with no I'll effects. I have not tried that with the Lexus. I find that there is a 10-12 cent per gallon difference between the two grades. At $1.50 to $2.00 more per tankful, it probably is not worth the effort, though.
I'll probably stay with premium, now that I've thought it out. The savings does not warrant the uncertainty, to be honest!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Here's a real world score card:
Chrysler/Dodge : 65,000 miles, stranded 4 times to witness 4 tow trucks hook up the car. :lemon:
Honda: Never in about 135,000 miles of personal experience (wife included).
Audi: 2006 A3, One time, but that was a half knife blade in the gas tank causing air to enter the tank which was leaking gas slowly, but the engine didn't like the air and shut itself down probably for the good of the car's well being. Can't blame Audi for that. Oh yeah, 91K miles.
Hmmmm...........
Once on the way to Florida I accidentally put 89 Octane in the 535 when it is supposed to use 91. I actually think my mileage was off a bit and I didn't use Sport mode very often, just didn't want the engine to overwork trying to make up for the weaker fuel.
These days it is difficult to mix blends, because if you put your card in you would have to do it all twice. The way I see it is 10 cents a gallon more and you will probably save that in better performance and better mileage, so better not to mess with it.
Besides, paying 10 cents a gallon is a bargain for me, in Canada we pay 11 cents more a litre for each grade of premium, and it takes about 4 litres to make a gallon, what a rip-off.
The way I see it the manufacturer does a lot of testing to come up with the most efficient fuel to use, for a buck or two a week it's best not to mess around.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
1. Most importantly is Fezo: I'm so glad that you're home now, and hoping that the medication will adapt to body functions and aid in the recovery process. As you try to rest and regain your strength, please know that we are all thinking about you.
2. Terminating old people from their jobs? It's a tough call. Some need the work for financial reasons; others just to keep the mind and body going. There is a factor to consider in deciding what to do. We often forget their productive years during which they worked their a$$es off for the employer and made important contributions. They also helped to train the younger crowd that now complains and wants the elderly one removed from the premises. The employer should try to assist by placing the older worker in the least strategic position possible. As far as education is concerned, moving the person to the central office is not the answer. Having worked there, I can tell you that it is a pressure cooker with huge amounts of stress. Also, that's where the real decisions are made---not something that an elderly worker can handle very well. The bottom line is a gradual exit must be implemented with the most respect and dignity that can be afforded the employee. After all, everyone will get old if they live long enough.
3. The energy topic: A president who "walks the walk"? Please! If he only knew where he was going! Like Old Farmer, I'll try not to say much here about politics. After all, I gave this advice to Driver and I must follow what I preach. I do feel that we have an abundance of resources---oil, natural gas, and coal. Oil company lobbyists, environmentalists, foreign relations, and labor unions pretty much control the scene today. Their influence is felt by all of us. Strong leadership in Congress and from the White House is needed. I doubt that will happen any day soon, regardless of who is elected. Politics and money drive the markets by insiders who know much more about what is going on than the typical investor will ever know. As we move more and more toward global integration, I fear that the situation will worsen. Many will want power and control; the masses will suffer as consumers.
4. Camry vs. Audi: Lots of talk as usual about "foreign" cars. It would be nice to hear some "domestic" car stories and observations. The Big 3 are still in business and they do make some very nice vehicles. The new Cadillac is now out---beautiful car for the luxury line. The Ford Explorer still looks good, and the Chrysler 300 sales are doing very well.
5. Andrea: I hate to even ask what a knife blade was doing in your gas tank. Perhaps the Rite-Aid manager was getting even?
6. Driver: You are correct. As a retired person, there are many days that I get up earlier than I need to. Unlike some, I always stay up late. I find that six hours of sleep works fine for me. It always did. I never go to bed until the new day has begun.
Richard
I guess now I know why politicians call handing unenployment checks a "stimulus" with straight face, or call couple of bilion dollars of revenue from "those evil rich" in face of trilion deficit a "good start", or claim that cutting foreign aid will solve our budget, or say that building and buying bombers, or nuclear submarines is good for economy and jobs... (yes, economic illiteracy is bipartisan). Those are same kind of "economies" as lower grade gasoline in high-performance expensive car ...
Sorry for the rant - I couldn'd stop myself. I'm better now, taking medication
Putting lower grade gas into high performance engine causes computer to adjust ignition, in turn reducing performance and often (not always)fuel economy. It probably won't ruin it, but it won't help either. Florida (many other states, too) gas is bad enough with that ethanol junk in it (i.e. its energy value is already lower than it should be, which impacts fuel economy already) - to go grade lower is to retard the performance even deeper.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Just for the fun of it I compared the reliability of a 2010 Camry compared to a 2010 Audi. As expected, the Camry comes out slightly ahead. Big deal, if we all only bought things based on reliability we would just all buy the most reliable car of the year....by the way the Hyundai Sonata is pretty high too, about the same if not better than the Camry.
But, for some people, other things are a bigger priority than reliability. I have driven Camry's and they do nothing for me emotionally. I get very little satisfaction from the feeling of being in a vacuum, isolated from the experience of driving.
If someone doesn't care about those things, and just wants good solid reliable transportation, then no doubt, a Camry is about as good as it gets.
A driving enthusiast driving a Camry though, I think that is the example in the dictionary of an oxymoron.
Reliability 2010 Camry
reliability 2010 Audi A4
reliability 2010 Hyundai Sonata
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We hired a person who was 65 to manage our warehouse, about 12 years ago. He thought he would never work again, though he had excellent references running warehouses in the past.
He was like a gift sent from heaven, loved to work, did the work of 3 people, could organize our distributions, calculated numbers in his head-didn't use a calculator, was extremely honest and very responsible. One time he had a health problem and I thought we would sell the business because we relied on him so much. He recovered and continued to work. I just want to point out that sometimes older people can make excellent employees, in this case couldn't have been better.
Perhaps the Rite-Aid manager was getting even?
LOL
I find that six hours of sleep works fine for me.
Studies have found that 8 hours is best, not just for performance but to fight off diseases. My wife reads the medical journal every week...the real one.
Did any one see 60 Minutes this weekend? Sugar is a toxic substance that not only causes diabetes, but also can cause cancer and heart disease. They said it is poison. Pretty soon there won't be anything left for me to eat.... :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No problem, 100% right on!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Or Auto Repair shops that I'm convinced 95% are either crooks or incompetent, and will quote you "Multi ATF Fluid" for a transmission fluid change even if your car has a dual clutch "DSG" type transmission that uses a special oil, not a typical fluid.
I think only "original owners" should be allowed to report on reliability and durability, because people tend to neglect things they don't intend on keeping for a long time.
Don’t look at me; I didn’t buy under the C4C program. When the C4C program came along, which was in the summer of 2009 IIRC, I had already purchased the Genny (March ’09) with an ’06 Sonata LX as the trade-in. And that ’06 was worth almost double ($6600) the $3500 clunker price.
I think in part it contributed, to this day, to the crazy prices I see on Craigslist for sub $2k cars. Such that prior to 2009 it was still possible to get a running car for $500 and now that same car lists for $2000.
I agree with that but the table should be turning any day now because 3 years adds a lot of older used cars to the market. I think the C4C program was a profit windfall for dealers, because even though on paper it looked like you’d get a very good deal due to the government giving you $3500 on top of any deal that you could make, for the most part, the dealers were not making any deals. Sure, they took off a token 2 or 3 hundred bucks but they didn’t deal like they had done prior to that program. At least that is what I was reading. Come to think of it, I don’t know a single person who bought under the C4C program.
At the time of the C4C program, dealers didn’t have to make deals because there was such an inrush of buyers because the government created an artificially high market demand for new cars.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You must have been watching me toss and turn last night. I think I have a fistful or two of those bills in the wrong place. I’m going to correct that before going to bed tonight. Rather than give some of those lumps to you, I’m going to make a fund transfer. I’ll be depositing those on Mrs. j’s side of the bed. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I agree. Computers do a lot of work today and adjusting the timing is just one of them. I think a lot of us remember the old days when, if you tried to cheat, by putting in a lower than specified octane rating than what your car called for, you knew it real quick. It would ping and sometimes badly. That was proof you did a no-no. Today the driver goes along fat, dumb and happy because they don’t hear any pinging but the car is not running at its best.
I think the worst thing that the computers do today is allow the car to run seemingly well when it’s cold. I’ve gotten into this before. Years ago with the carburetor cars and the choke linkage that tried to compensate for cold starts, we all knew that the car was cold and we allowed it to warm up because we knew it wasn’t running the way it should. Not now, today a driver thinks because the car isn’t bucking it is running fine and the engine is warm enough. I say it isn’t because we can’t change the physics that a car should be warmed up before we make moderate and hard acceleration demands from it. Cold oil is not going to provide the needed lubrication for a cold engine even though the computer doesn’t tell us that.
This will always be my rant.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That's the norm. Some people require less and some require more. My sister and BIL are doctors. She requires 9-10 hours per night, but he's like me---only requires six. It all depends on the body chemistry and the biological clock of each individual. Some people even do four or five naps per 24 hour day and don't sleep straight through at night.
Richard
Oil - oils are now designed to operate at greater ranges of temperature hence wear is less when the engine is cold when compared to before.
Improved cooling systems - they now work better to warm engines up faster.
Better engine design - engines of yore were pretty sloppily designed with parts that were effected by temperature swings. Today parts don't expand or contract as much. Ever hear a new car clatter in the cold? Probably not.
Fuel Injection - FI allows the computer to provide the proper mixture to the engine based on the temperature. The choke systems were purely mechanical and couldn't do what is possible today.
The best thing to do is start your car, let it run a minute or so and then drive slowly to let everything come up to temp. Also, letting your car sit and warm up doesn't effectively warm the catalytic converter up to operating temp. When driving, your exhaust is warmer and heats the cat up faster.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
But I agree, best way to warm up car is to drive it gently, so all components warm up, not to sit still. With small correction - I pretty much start driving right away, but gently.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Upon my visit to his shop, I was informed that it was a car that hit the convertible. He said that the damage was too extensive to have been done by a grocery cart. The estimate for repair is $887.60. Having a $500 deductible, I debated as to whether or not to file a claim. I called my agent for a discussion. My agent said that he would be happy to file it, but that I would be taking a chance. Insurance companies are getting bad about terminating customers these days. His point was that if we had a more serious claim down the road, this small claim would be sitting there on the books. That could cause a termination because it would be a second claim. It makes you wonder why we pay for insurance. At any rate, I decided to pay for the repairs out of pocket.
This incident brought to mind an interesting question. If I wanted to trade the convertible, should I put out the $887.60 expense or just trade it in as is? Naturally, the trade allowance would be less, but would it be $887.60 less---or even more? Let's have some opinions on this.
Richard
Like I said, drive slowing. Spooling up the turbo when cold isn't driving slowly.
That is the warm up I’m talking about. It only takes a couple of minutes when the engine is cold. When I say cold, I’m talking 20 F and below.
Most people today when they start a cold engine they drive off like it were summer. Like I said, just because the engine doesn’t buck, because the computer prevents that, a cold engine still requires a warm up period. It doesn’t have to be 5 minutes or more like back in the 50’s, 60’s or 70’s but it does require a short warm up period. To me that is common sense.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Would you sell it yourself or trade it in?
I would think it would be easier to hold the line with a dealer if you made the repair. You are then presenting a car with no known issues and the dealer is even more inclined to believe that you took good care of the car and offer closer to book. With damage it could appear like you didn't care for the car, which means you may not have done other stuff (despite service records).
As a private seller you could easily let it go, deduct that from your starting price and be more flexible anyway since you would be getting more than the dealer will offer. But then you'll have to deal with all the nuts who populate craigslist and autotrader as was the case with my friend and brother who were selling stuff recently.
I guess it's a sign of the tough economic climate when someone wants you to help them finance your $1700 1999 truck.
Gogiboy
My ’09 Genny has a temp gauge and I like that. However, Mrs. j’s 6 cyl. ’12 Legacy does not. It has a blue idiot light. Obviously it goes off sooner when the ambient temperature is warmer. Right after we got it at the end of November 2011 I let it sit outside just to see when the light goes off. At around the 20 F temp that I use as my barometer, it goes out after idling for around 2 minutes. When I drive it after just a few seconds of idling by the time I’m about 2 blocks down the street the blue light goes off but I don’t have a temp gauge that I would prefer. Since you were a Subie owner you may know what I’m talking about with the blue idiot light thing.
Something that I don’t particularly like about the Subie is how the RPM is a lot higher at startup than any other car I’ve ever owned. The RPM goes up to around 2000 for a few seconds at initial start up regardless of the ambient temp but then drops to something a little less than a 1000 RPM after about 2 or 3 seconds. I guessed right about why this happens because I ask the dealership about it and was told, “that is the way it’s supposed to be because it’s a boxer engine lying on its side. You can’t compare that engine to a standard V6 engine”. Still, being the conservative type that I am, I don’t like to see and hear the high RPM at start up.
Given that you are in Florida, not having a temp gauge and not having to be concerned about cold starts shouldn’t be a real problem for you but I know how you feel about not having a gauge.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I actually use that as my "how long to let it warm up" guide. As soon as the revs drop, I put it in gear. If I don't wait, the car jumps anyway.
only takes a few seconds (5 maybe? I never timed it) so not a big deal. Start the car, and by the time I get the belt on, etc. good to go.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I know you said you went to a former student for an estimate and he could be right on with that price. However, I’d get at least one other estimate. If the price is in the same ball park, now you know what the real repair price is. As for trading it as it sits, I have had people tell me several times over the years the dealers say “I could never fix it for that price”. The dealer price was at least 10% higher. It’s never happened to me but that is what I have been told.
The closest I came to something like this was when I traded Mrs. j’s ’06 Sonata with a broken passenger side mirror for the ’09 Genny. After she whacked the mirror I got a dealer price to replace it in ’06. The price was around $270 IIRC but I never had the mirror replaced. I allowed the Genny dealer $300 to make the fix before he put the car on his lot for sale. I remember him saying something like, “I don’t know if I can do it for that price now that we are into ‘09”. I knew he could. In fact, as I have said before, I got $600 more for that car than what he first offered.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This is one of those cases in my opinion, where you have nothing to gain by having the dealer deduct it if you go to trade it in. As Gogi said, the dealer will think you don't care about how you treat the car, so it will be worth even less than what the repair will cost.
You would think the dealer could do the repairs for less, like cost price so they will give you more for the car. That won't happen, car dealerships run their separate divisions separately, so the repair shop will bill the garage, and they don't give discounts. It is probably structured that way for tax reasons. I know the Accura dealer that put my shield protection on did it for about half the price the BMW dealer would charge, because they run the garage completely separate from the dealership. You actually pay your bill in a different building, with a different cashier.
Short answer, you will only lose if you ask the garage to have it fixed.
JMonroe is right though, get another estimate, estimates can vary. My friends Maserati had that scratch on the bumper, Maserati gave an estimate of $4000, Accura place did it for $700....and it was fixed perfect!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
One more observation on why you should get a second opinion. I have noticed that when people buy an existing business or if they start a new business, they have a fair amount of debt. The guy who has been in business for a long time has paid off his start up costs. I think that is one reason this particular Accura dealer is so reasonable. Your students price may be high because of that>
Also, how do you know this student liked you as a teacher :P
It may be payback time!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250