General Motors discussions

imidazol97

at GM are nothing. I was expecting thousands to be taking cuts and not just 10%. Didn't Ford work for a $1 per year?

GM is going to get a backlast from the unions now. How many were actually affected by the salary cuts? 5 people?

rockylee

It's a game pal. Rick Wagoners salary with stock options etc was $9.8 million which is hard for me to believe that's all it was. Regardless lets say Rick cut his salary in half. He'd still make $4.9 million dollars a year which is alot more than sucessful CEO's. He's still a multi-millionaire and never would have to work another day again. He's worth more than a $100 million from what I've heard.

Ok Cut my fathers salary in half and he's making $25-30K a year and that's excluding the cuts in health benefits and retirements. He's probably dropping dead in the work place.

It's corporate rhetoric "pay cuts" which will be made up at the end of the day. Ask Rick if he will cut the strings on his "Golden Chute" ????- Ahhhh I didn't think so

Rocky

rockylee

Seriously you would rather drive a Civic over a new Soltice GXP ???? I'd take the much better looking Colbalt SS and take the extra change I just saved and spend it on some performance upgrades :P

Rocky

igor2

Bill Ford has refused a paycheck since he stepped in in 2000... he is paid fully in stock....

He never wanted that job in the first place, but when they needed a CEO because they kicked out the previous guy, he took on the responsiblity... but vowed not to take a paycheck untill his job is done and all divisions (especially Ford NA) is profitable ...

Wagoner Pay: http://www.forbes.com/static/execpay2005/LIRSOX2.html?passListId=12&passYear=200- 5&passListType=Person&uniqueId=SOX2&datatype=Person

Bill Ford Pay:
http://www.forbes.com/static/execpay2005/LIRX5J3.html?passListId=12&passYear=200- 5&passListType=Person&uniqueId=X5J3&datatype=Person

Igor

rockylee

Interesting article. Bill Ford isn't exactly hurting either. Either way he's still a multi-millionaire and his family has been mega rich for years. Bill perhaps isn't the man to run Ford Motor Company, but I do respect his management style more than Wagoner. Bills biggest problem is making "nice cars" that really have no passion like I described in another forum.
Ex. The new Lincoln Zepher. A nice product but with 239 hp. V-6 with no performance upgrade will not win him over any BMW, Cadillac, Acura, MB, Lexus drivers will it.

He needs to hire a "car guy" like a Lutz or BMW engineer that knows what kind of products customers want to drive.
Wouldn't ya'll agree ?????

Rocky

igor2

Well .. Ford as an environmentalist had the hardest time getting the borad to approve anything.. they have been at war since he started... he now finally has the team he wants for Ford NA..." the Brooklyn Power Trio" .. the Ford NA President is Mark Fields, the guy who turned around Mazda and all of Ford's European Luxury brands (all of them except Jaguar are profitable now). I forget the names of the other two people.. there is a woman in charge of engineering and a guy in charge of design.. they all know each other from youth and are all very quick in doing stuff, and with Bill's approval their main job is to do WHATEVER it takes to bring Ford NA to profits... and I believe they will do it. The woman was previously in charge of tuning around Ford's South American division, and also succeeded... neither of them is simply a bean counter..

BTW Lincoln just announced the Zephyr is getting the fastest makeover in car history.. it ill be the 2007 Lincoln MKZ, and will get the 3.5l V6 with 250hp (240lb/ft) and AWD as an option.... does it sound a little better?

Yeah I agree that most of vehicles under Bill were simply "nice cars" but in my eyes that is at least progress from "crappy cars" ... similar to strategy used by Hyundai

Igor

rockylee

Agree with ya 100% on what is happening presently is better than the past. The Lincoln MKZ would be a little nicer with atleast a 3.5I V6 with a turbo and 6-speed manuel that has about 300 or more horsepower. It could then atleast take on BMW 3, Caddy CTS, Audi A4, Lexus IS, Infinti G35, but in that form it will probably go toe to toe with the CTS and A4 since it doesn't have enough steroids to compete with the BMW 330i, and G35, Lexus IS 350. It's much better but not quite good enough.

GM needs to overhual the CTS very badly and Chrysler needs to make a midsize car with a SRT package. Perhaps they are banking on the Bad Boy looking Charger to still be a competitor in that market even though it's a large car ????

Rocky

igor2

Oh I forgot to mention .... the new 3.5l V6 was designed groud up to accept turbocharger.. there is no more word on the specs of the turbo yet, but it will come..

Second, the engine will eventually tricle down to replace (or at least be an option to) the 3.0 V6 currently in use... so Fusion / milan, Fivehundred etc.. will see this engine..

Igor

rockylee

WOW a turbo. Well that sounds better now. The Lincoln is sounding much better and could be added to a shopping list someday. The Big 3 are missing a true BMW 3 competitor. That gives even more hope to the Cadillac CTS final horsepower ratings. Cadillac won't want their new CTS to be smoked by a Lincoln even in base trim. BMW and Lexus better watch their backs because Lincoln and Cadillac are coming with their flash to pass lights on !!!!!!!

Rocky

m1miata

Don't know what a GPX model of a Solstice is, but I can tell ya the Cobalt is no competition to the Civic, other than price. Yes, the Civic is getting a bit pricey. Personally, I do not plan on going back to small cars next buy time. The Cobalt SS is priced near the Si and Acura, so why buy it? Who wants, or needs turbo to get HP when the Si has 197HP without turbo. Yeah, you could add turbo if you need more than 250HP.

loren

rockylee

"GXP" Soltice. Has 260 horsepower out of a turbo charged Ecotec 4 cylinder. The Civic has become much more pricey. Especially in Si trim. With 197 horsepower it lacks 13 horsepower of the Colbalt. Numbers and power aside the Colbalt in my opinion is a much nicer car. The Civic is starting to remind me of something out of a sci-fi movie. The interior is downright ugly and has a NASA-UFO appearance. Also you will beable to buy the Colbalt alot cheaper than a Civic because the Honda dealers are going to want sticker for them because it got the biased calipers from a blinde Motor Trend staff. MT car of the year should of went to the BMW 3 series. The Dodge Charger, Lexus IS, or Infiniti M could of made a strong case for any of them.

Rocky

anythngbutgm

Sales figure wise, the Civic is much more significant than the Charger, IS or M. It is also a diverse model with everything from a stripped DX to a a loaded EX with NAV for the coupe and Sedan as well as a hot rod Si coupe and an eco-friendly Hybrid. Even the Cobalt which sells in equally significant numbers does'n't macth the Civic lineup as a whole.

Civic deserved the calipers for sheer market impact. Never driven a Cobalt, but the Civic is an excellent vehicle. If more GM diehards actually gave the Civic a chance, opinions may not be so harsh right out of the gate.

Never happen though, ride would be too firm and controlled and the steering would be too direct and linear. Plus you would have to actually "drive" the car instead of "ride" in it like your "typical" GM'er...

m1miata

You guys are right, what is missing is the BMW3 sized RWD competitive car from the big three. A smaller CTS, lighter in weight, a new Chrysler ( not one based on FWD Mitsubishi ), and a RWD Fusion, with an inline 6. As for the Lincoln line, it sounds like it is, old and tired, and needs to be retired.

The current Fusion is interesting enough in it's FWD configuration, and there is a need for FWD in snow country. So perhaps another platform, based on the Mustang for the RWD makes more sense than converting Fusion to FWD. This car should have a more spirited name, like Tiger, or well, anything than Fusion, or Focus.
Maybe call the Fairlane, while dropping that mini-van looking thing they want to pin the Fairlane name on.

The CTS in a smaller form should usher in the use of names again for Cadillac cars. How about the Stellare.
Ya know, the name Vega is hanging around....oh no, I said that again. Sorry to bring that up again...not really

Loren

m1miata

No Cobalt has less HP. Just add a blower on a Civic, if you want more HP, though I don't know why. Never saw the need for turbo power. There are so many tricks to do on the Civic, if you want a racer, you got one. As for looks, I like the coupe, though it may not be the car for me. The styling is new, as in modern. The Cobalt, out the gate, was old looking. Actually, the Cavalier, named after the engineering and build ( a joke ), looked fine, if you want simple flowing lines. The Cobalt has some strange look to the front, like the eyes are meant for a larger car or something. Overall, not a bad looking car, but that is the problem. It is just another car. Too many GM are just another car. GM is looking tired. And all this during the American Revolution, as THEY say?

Solstice and CTS are interesting newer GM efforts, as is the Corvettes, though I would buy a C5 ( just me ).

The refresh design on the DTS comes off pretty good, for a lower cost effort to get a car looking fresher in-between more drastic changes. The STS looks like an expensive CTS with a little less radical edges and thus more plain Jane.

Loren

rockylee

Vega doesn't have the "class" off the tongue to fit a Cadillac brand in my opinion. I however am glad you also see the need for the Big 3 to make a BMW 3 competitor. The Vega was a Chevy correct ????-Way before my time :P

Rocky

P.S. I can see why some like names instead of letters and numbers for cars

rockylee

Each new Civic brings more of the same tired "flashy teenage boy racer car" it desires to be. Same OLD thing. The car might drive nice but I personally don't wanna be part of the teenage "fast and furious" loud crowd. The shifter in a civic is like on the center stack and out of whack for me. My point was yes you can upgrade both cars (Civic/Cobalt) However it will be cheaper to do so on a Cobalt because the Cobalt will cost you less change to begin with. I also like the interior and exterior design on the Cobalt much better because it isn't so NASA like.

Rocky

rockylee

What are you talking about ???? Hot Si. coupe ? Since when was 197 hp. HOT ROD :confuse:

Your funny making those assumption on a Cobalt when one has never test drove one.

Rocky

62vetteefp

Actually his base salary is around $2,200,000. No bonus for 2005. stock options worthless. 50% pay cut means he will make 1,100,000 for the year.

What is Wagoner's golden parachute?

In the above link what is the "other" 3.5 million? All I can think is that it is stock options? Also it may be the stock that he hot a few years ago as compensation and sold?

rockylee

I think it would be cool to get a big wig from General Motors to do a little Q & A with. A Chat session.

Rocky

62vetteefp

Go ahead and ask the questions. Never know who is reading.

anythngbutgm

Same reason you find the Civic Si "flashy teenage boy racer car" having not driven one. I'd say the Cobalt SS has taken THAT title with the two-tiered wing and tacked on ground effects. Not the Civic (thankfully).

My daily driver for 8 months/year is an S2000 so I am used to "Si like" characteristics and I would say it is 8/10's of the S2k in performance. The Si motor and gearbox IS "hot" believe it or not. Power is linear if you know how to work for it , the Civic Si is VERY Quick. GM gearboxes (for a lack of a better term) "Suck royally" in precision and action IMO. And S/C's are bandaids although I have read decent things about the Ecotec motor in general...

Back to your regularly scheduled programing///

rockylee

Go check out #1481

Wagoners golden Parachute will be a retirement worth multi-millions. Jack Smith gets a 1 million dollar annual retirement salary from GM. Small compared to former Executive Jack Welsch of General Electric who got a 500 million dollar golden parachute.....
.
.
:shades:

Rocky

fintail

"What is Wagoner's golden parachute? "

Whatever kind of unjustifiable compensation he would receive if he suddenly wasn't employed by the general. I doubt the numbers are public, but they certainly exist, as they do for the rest of the mucky-muck crew.

So will the dividend cuts be put into R&D or product content or??

rockylee

Fintail R&D we could only wish pal. Right now it's going to help pay for the NA loss.

Rocky

62vetteefp

Go check out #1481

I did. It shows only his income before 2005 when GM made good money on their trucks. What is the "other" 3.5 million? I guess I do not know the definition of a golden parachute. I thought it was what someone got when they left a company not thru normal retirement.

rockylee

I calculated it was $9.8 Million salary with bonus and stock options for Wagoner. Yes his golden parachute is for when he is fired eventually or mandatory retired. I'm sure it will be better than Jack Smiths $1 million retirement

Rocky

rockylee

Ok I will 62Vette A couple I personally want answered.

Q #1 What new features, engine choices, etc, can we expect on the 2007 Cadillac CTS ????
Will it have GM's new 2 stage hybrid system ?

Q#2 When is the G8 going to be released ???? What new features can we expect to see on this new BMW 3 killa ????

Rocky

rockylee

I think 2007 will be much better for GM. Perhaps the year GM made the big turn when we look back on it 5-10 years down the road !!!!!!

Rocky

rockylee

Any of you like GM's new Sting Ray concept ?

Rocky

rockylee

http://autoshow.msn.com/as/article.aspx?xml=GM2&shw=autoshow2006&src=News

Rocky

rockylee

Why buy the expensive Civic Coupe when you can spend a few more grand or wait for a deal on the GTO which is superior in every way to the Civic. :P

Rocky

igor2

anyone of your GM guys can tell me how divisions of GM did last year?

I know that in FoMoCo EVERYTHING except Ford NA (includes F/L/M in USA, Canada and mexico)and Jaguar was profitable, so at the end of the day the $1.6bn loss from Ford NA was easily offset for $2bn profit for the whole FoMoCo..

I wonder how Chevy Europe, or Opel etc are doing...are thye all losing or was the GM NA loss even bigger than $9bn and the other civisions managed to push it down at least to $9bn?

Thanks

Igor

igor2

because GTO is a fat pig that - like Mustang, is nice on straight roads but sucks on the twisties... that is why

Igor

igor2

Well there seems to be a little fight going one between Civi and Cobalt on here.. I though I would chime in..

For clarification I am quite dedicated Ford fan.. I used to own a Focus, now I drive a Mazda3.

I however drove pretty much everything in the compact segment., and would like to chime in about the Cobal - Civic debate.

Off the bat, Colat ATX sucks beyond reason. That thing was completely unable to handle moderate accelearation and I was not even pushing it. The Civic ATX is quite a bit better. Mostly because it is 5 speed ATX, but in general issimply more advanced.

Second, however the lack of low end torque in Civic forces the little engine to rev at 3500 rpm doing 70mph... I didn;t get to drive a Cobalt that fast, but I a sure iti less.. Honda should have geared the civic differently, there is no excuse for such high revs at speed limit.

However Civic get much greater mileage, has better rep, and overall better feel.. When I sit in a Cobalt I have the same feeling as in Focus - they completely butchered a nice European Car. The Civic while also toned down for the NA is still a nice car in the US. Finally I think the incredibly narrow and small trunk opening on the Cobal is inexcusable. The civic, not the Mazda3 Sedan (my car) are not much better, but they are sufficiently bigger to actually fit stuff through them.

So Overall, the Cobalt is quite cloe to the Civic, but I cold not get arond the feeling that I would be going bargain basement again..

However there is a big difference in the Si.. better suspension, LSD, good exhaust... the Si is an amazing car to drive.. in my book it rivals the new GTI anddefinitely surpasses the new A3.
The SS could not reach that car.. Unfortunately Chevy, once again tought that the only thing they need to do to make SS hot is just drop a bigger engine in it... that is not the way to do in in 2006. The ne Si has a GTi and Focus SVT aura of "being special" about it.. the Cobalt feels like a Neon SRT-4 or Sentra SpecV A great engine in mediocre car.

Igor

rockylee

Igor, it's a fat pig with real world room. You can seat 4 full size american adults in it. How much do you really drive the twisties. Most highways/country roads are big sweeping curves or straights where the GTO will smoke a Civic easily.
"That is why" :P

Rocky

igor2

yes, but I am not talking about smoking Civics.. I am talking about enjoying driving it.. I would take a GTI, Mazda3, or Civic Si over any Mustang or GTO even if I had the money to buy them.. I own a Mazda3 and owned a Focus ... I love throwing my car into corners and enjoying the twisties...as a matter of fact an amazing urban twisty runs from my house straight to downtown Philly.. I take it instead of the HWY every time.

Igor

imidazol97

I love it when test drivers for mags whose main philosophy is that a car has to be a sports car enough to impress them or it's crap... complain that a car won't do this or that specialty test that's their pet.

"It lacked control in the 125 mph corner with a wave in the middle. This indicates the typical driver won't be able to make avoidance maneuvers on the 65 mph interstate. Don't buy the XYZ US made mobile. Our platinum scissors award goes to X20 mobile because they give us better discounts and perks on models between tests!"

Most people drive a car normally 98% of the time. They don't NEED nor do they WANT a sports car. If I did, I'd buy one again. I want a nice-to-drive car that doesn't hit my tailbone with every tar-filled crack or wave. I've had those cars; I want comfort. A LeSabre, even the stiffer-riding 2003 with 16-inch Michelin tires is fine. I can tell it has struts that can go in and out on bumps.

rockylee

Never new the Cobalt SS had a bigger engine ? Last time I checked it was the same Ecotec engine, supercharged

I guess I just happen to like the ergonomics of the cobalt better. Yes it needs another bump in horsepower to destroy Civics all togeather. Get rid of the Supercharger and apply the same turbo that is going into the Soltice to kill your beloved Civic in every area. I guess 11 out of the 12 biased MT staff will agree the 197 hp. Civic is the king of calipers. I just can't see how 11 out of 12 people all could like one car ????? I can't get my family to agree on one thing let alone all agree on the perfect car in 2006. Honda had to open the cash coffers on this staff.

Rocky

rockylee

Thank-You very much. The perfect car isn't always a sports compact car. That's why you will never see a car like a Lucerne EVER win the Golden Calipers at Motor Trend or top car at any other Car Magazine. Hell the New Charger should of atleast deserved to be recognize. The new Mustang didn't even get picked. :confuse:

Rocky

rockylee

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060207/UPDATE/602070426 :sick:

Rocky

rockylee

Igor got a question ? Hey pal does this new car have a 6-speed manuel option or do you think it will be saved for the Turbo engine ????( Lincoln MK-Z)

I wanted to ask you this before I forget.

Rocky

62vetteefp

Q #1 What new features, engine choices, etc, can we expect on the 2007 Cadillac CTS ????
Will it have GM's new 2 stage hybrid system ?

Q#2 When is the G8 going to be released ???? What new features can we expect to see on this new BMW 3 killa ????

come on, all the above is restricted info. But part 1 of 1 will be answered soon.

igor2

I believe the 6speed auto is the only option.. but the announcement came only today, so it is possible some datails will change... however, the Zephyr didn't have an option of MTX either..

Igor

rockylee

Well both should be released soon. My latest Motor Trend shows a Holden Commadore aka G8 being tested in the U.S.

-Of course in Black plastic

Rocky

P.S. Q#3 When can we expect a diesel car from General Motors ???? 62vettefp is that too restricted :shades:

rockylee

Thanks pal. If it gets the manuel Transmission option it will add some real flavor to the bland Lincoln image. We can only hope.

BTW- Does the Zepher/MKZ have voice recognition ?

Rocky

rockylee

rockylee, "GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda..:Who will sell you your next car?" #59, 7 Feb 2006 5:47 pm

Rocky

igor2

I think it stops at Bluetooth .. as far as I know..

BTW here are my sources:
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/07/lincoln-debuts-2007-zeph-mkz/#comments

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060207/BUSINESS01/602070414

Igor

rockylee

WOW man that has to be the fastest name change in automotive history. It sounds like it has a nice stereo system. If it had voice recognition and a few more ponies I'd probably want one. This will be a nice wait and see car for sure.

Thanks Igor
Rocky

rockylee

Hyundai, will save GM. How ? Ok they(Hyundai) are going to destroy Toyota and Honda by gulping up market share with fine cars at a low price. Closely behind will be the Chinese and India car companies. It will be an Asian war faught on our turf. GM, Ford, Chrysler will let em' fight it out while investing their market share profits in R&D. Perhaps this is when GM merges and/or shares R&D with Ford and Chrysler to form a super company or to put the razor sharp Axe on the asians. Toyota and Honda are doomed because Hyundai will make a better camcord while the Big 3 will have the MOJO retro american flavor the many loyalist lust for. :shades: Will their be a winner come out of the asians ???? I doubt it.

I really do believe a "all out war" on our domestic turf is going to take place in a half decade. This will give GM, Ford, Chrysler, time to regroup themselves to take larger portions of the pie because the asians will be at war with each other over the other half of the pie.

Rocky

imidazol97

>(Dubya days)

What does that mean?