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General Motors discussions

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    What awards has it won? For about a month, there was a commercial about "The Award winning G6"...

    What, was it top ten cars for 2005 in "Oprah" magazine? ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I doubt there is going to be a base model because of limited production. This will be a niche car and building trim levels will cost GM more money then it's worth. Why wouldn't GM slap a 400-450 hp. Twin Turbo HF 3.6 ???? It would be the perfect MB, Volvo, Lexus, convertible slayer.

    :D "If they built it I will buy"

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Here is one of the articles I found. It isn't the one I am looking for but still. Sounded like a promising entry based on this writeup...
    link title

    We got a reincarnated Cavalier instead...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    J.D. Power and Associates most appealing 2005 midsize car. :P

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Buick doesn't have the cache to demand the premium it is going to require to pay for the engineering of the thing. A niche roadster of that caliber ain't going to be cheap by any means...

    Somehow "slayer" and Buick sound like an oxymoron. Who in their right mind is going to cross shop a Mercedes and a Buick BTW??? How's the marketing going to work for that one? Willfred Brimley blasting down the Autobahn in a Buick?

    Right now a flagship Lucerne is advertising a $26,880 starting price. A flagship priced about the same as a Ford 500 doesn't exactly scream Mercedes Benz fighter...
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Prediction on the actual promise of the Velite Roadster:

    image
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well the CXS will eat a MB's lunch in certain categories such as reliability and build quality. Hell Benz's aren't even German made anymore. Portugal German ???? Maybe
    in WW-2, but regardless Buick is a nameplate that can compete with Lexus and Mercedes Benz lower models. The Buick Velite if it makes production was said to be around $40-44K and yes there is cache when Tigers driving around in one. Anything he touches turns to gold. :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    HA HA HA.......you are the most Anti-Gm person I've ever spoken too. You are funny though..... :P

    Rocky
  • igor2igor2 Member Posts: 148
    It seems people here think that the best position for GM is fighting the BMW etc with RWD platforms in all classes...

    Here is someextravagant Buick concept with twin turbo and promises of engineering that will llikely require 50-60k pricetag.

    Then Chevy is readying the turbo Ecotec. Putting more hope into the little Solistice and Sky.. or trying to revive the dull Cobalt...Then there are the plans for Camaro and RWD Impala... In the meanwhile they are releasing full size SUV's

    Is it just me of it there something missing?
    Rgular FWD Compact of good quality?
    Regular FWD and/or AWD Midsize

    those two classes are the meat and potatoes of all other car manufacturers.. is GM really thinking that niche models will bring n $9bn in annual profit to cover the hole?

    Up to my knowledge, none of the recent niche cars, like Focus SVT, SRT4 etc ever covered the R&D costs..

    Why does Gm think heir niche cars wil be different? Niche cars can work in raising the attntion of customers and lead them to buy the mainstream model...

    And here is the issue.. there is no mainstream model a regular run of the mill customer would want to buy...
    Malibu has its niche...
    Cobalt is clear value buy.. not a regular compact buy...
    The G6 is an OK contender, but it seems to be failing to present itself as a realcontender to CamCord...

    Is GM Blind or does it have access to some secret I do not know about?

    Igor
    GM has a gaping hole in te
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    "Well the CXS will eat a MB's lunch in certain categories such as reliability and build quality"

    Build quality????????????? Even the cheapest Benz, a C230 Kompressor coupe' that graced my driveway for 3 years and over 100,000 miles was built like a tank. A typical Mercedes Benz, over-engineered, Tank. Nary a squeek or rattle, nary a switch that didn't "snick snick" like a Metronome, nary a flake of plastic came off the interior, that car was solid.

    CXS looks vs the Benzes are subjective, but no way can a Buick match, let alone beat a Benz in Build quality.

    Reliability scores can be traced to absolute simplicity of the Buick as opposed to the techno-laden Benzes. We'll see how well the latest "Precision Engineering" holds up over the long haul...
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    Well, I picture is worth a thousand words. Nice Job,Mr. Anythingbutgm. Your picture lacks a few things like where's the rust on the bottom edge of the door and mis aligned headlight covers? I have to assume this is a pre- production photo?Those doors look like exact duplicates for the Buick Regal. Classy,for sure! Who was it that said the Camcords looked dull? :P Bill C.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Thanks man. I try to be light hearted in my responses even though it is tough to show expression on a computer screen...

    No offense intended. Just having a friendly debate.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    That might even be fresh paint! :D
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,674
    Have you ever had anything good to say about GM? I get the feeling no matter what they did you'd find something on some other car to say was better than what GM build. There's always some pie-in-the-sky item on another car that is just the cat's meow and GM should-coulda-done it thatta way... Just a feeling I have.

    Lucerne got a good review and interior was mentioned IIRC. The Passat review mentioned poorly done interior (Knobs do I recall mentioned). Guess not every car company is putting together than elusive, mystical, wonderful interior that is in someone's mind's eye.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    To Mr. anythingbutgm: I've owned two Mercedes and they were both vehicles I am/was glad to own.Perfect they were not, but both Mercedes and the dealer always went out of their way to fix any problems even after the warranty for no charge. My last was a 1999 C280, and while it wasn't the fastest, it was a nearly perfect car and held it's value very well. I might have done better with a Lexus, but who wants to drive a gussied up Toyota! Unlike GM Mercedes fired the one in charge during it's recent quality problems and now have brought in a new manager and they are focusing on getting things right. They are not just serving up rhetoric a'la GM. My only beef with Mercedes is the cost of routine maintenance,parts and accessories, but then they all charge way to much IMO. Bill C.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Ok. So it's a handicap match. :P Well after you get your over priced "tank" out of the shop for the 43rd time then you might beable enjoy your Benz. My friend Doris and her Husband have a C-class Benz and like the car. They said it wasn't as reliabe as there Lexus but said it rides nice. I told them why did you spend all that money to own a car that is no better than a Hyundai Azera ?????

    I said hell atleast the Hyundai knows it's going to break down and that's why they give the industry's best warranty with confidence. "I think it's a hidden conspiracy theory" They also wanna make money off the cokes and vending machines while you wait. :P

    BillC your swinging at the Juggulator with pulling the worst buicks from the 80's.

    Rocky

    P.S. The Velite won't sell for $50-60K. The $40-44K quote was by a Buick official at the autoshow. perhaps a accidental leak.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    My wife's was an 02' right around the time the issues started to come up. Now her business partner has had 3 more recent models, an 01 E500 4-matic, an 03' E500 4M and at the moment, a CLS 500 "designo" The 01' went 130k with a replaced radio, the 03' went 50k without issue and was traded only because he had fell in love with the CLS. I think it has about 30 - 40k on it at the moment and I haven't heard of any issues except premature tire replacment (Performance tires). All in all, he has had minimal issues that have plagued recent models. So in my eyes, they are still solid cars.

    Didn't know they fired anyone over it. Wow, now THAT is how you deal with failure. Out with the dirty laundry. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    I wanna know who is using what drugs that make them compare an Azera with a MB
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    "Have you ever had anything good to say about GM"?

    I'd like to take a shot at that question, even though it was not directed at me. I bought 3 GM products (all new) during the 80's decade. All were disappointing to say the least. The experience was poor going all the way down to the dealership level. Nobody cared. I walked way from GM. During the the 90's GM only built more of the same or worse. I can list all the names and brands of all the crap they have built, but it's been done to death. With such experience and records, IF GM was my wife or my boss would I just assume they are now trustworthy and all should be forgiven? The GM behavior is as arrogant as ever with Waggoner and Lutz telling us all that things are not their fault,it's somehow everybodies else fault? You can trust them all you want with your money, I'll pass untill I see results that are more than magazine review hyperboil. Bill C.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    BillC,

    If Mercedes made some of the cars I like more affordable I'd probably accept them better.

    The same is for BMW. The next M3 Sedan is going to run upwards of $60K and will be way out of my price range. So basically from 97-2007 the BMW M3 has gone from a $39K to a $59K $2,000 a yr. is alot !

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,674
    >They said it wasn't as reliabe as there Lexus but said it rides nice

    But I thought the "rides nice" part of earlier Buicks was what was wrong with GM. They were supposed to bang you around like them "fereign" cars because that's the way they have to be to handle properly. (I love the ride of my 03 LeSabre.)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,674
    > the cars I like more affordable

    And the service more affordable...

    Like my optometrists says, you can't afford to breath the air in the orthodontist's office and the BMW dealership.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,674
    > I can list all the names and brands of all the crap they have built, but it's been done

    I think you've made that point here that you don't like GM and want to be as negative as possible to anything that changes.

    Do you think things might have changed toward the better? Perhaps not as perfect as your Accord or Camry but showing better in JDP? I'd like to have seen better management and better use of funds than golden parachutes and huge executive compensations and unions that are overpaid.

    Thank you for a clear response.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    the one that came up with The Trade Act, which paid for my college education after getting laid off from The Boeing Company in 2003, rockylee. I liked how The Trade Act paid for my books and full tuition, therefore I also like Jimmy Carter's Adminsistration for helping to bring it into existence.

    Solutions are win-win when you have a deal paid for by the government like The Trade Act. ;)

    I retrained in the Allied Health field which, if anybody's reading this message and thinking of job training, is booming and the need will continue to grow as the baby boomers age.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    LOL pal.....that was a really funny" bang you round like foreign cars" comment. Magnaride is the perfect all around suspension currently offered. The Bose suspension is suppose to be better. It will probably cost a butt load still to make.

    fintail, I was doing Azera to MB comparison to make reference of the real reliability of a Benz according to CR. I know I was stretching the truth a bit.... :P

    Bottom Line: I want that AMG 4 seater convertible Mercedes makes ;) Too bad it's was out of my price range. :cry:

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,674
    Just wait a couple years with high depreciation due to poor quality the price will be half and you can pick up one avoiding that huge loss those first two years.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Hey I was too young to vote. However some of my family members that were democrats do have marked low. However he was better than what we got now.

    I personally miss William Jefferson Clinton, His speeches and state of the union address's gave my generation hope for a bright future that was going to filled with good jobs. President Bush didn't continue on that tradition and kicked those hopes and dreams down a hole. :mad:

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I know you and I have gone back and forth a hundred times. I have in the past given the kudos where necessary. I think the Saturn Sky has potential, I think the Solstice is only OK, but the "piece parts" engineering really brings those two down, thus the price point they were intended for I guess. I dig the bland but high-po GTO, moreso than the Vette actually... I think the Lucerne is the most elegant Buick to come out of the factory in all my driving years. Too bad it had to be strapped with archaic running gear out of the gate. Not flagship material IMO... I think the new GMT-900's are 1 million times the improvment over the outgoing models. Archaic Tranny unless you plunk down 70k on an Escalde... not impressive in that sense. And in an era of $3.00 + gasoline I am a bit skeptical of the decision to prioritize these remodels over the disappointing car lineup.

    As a whole, I still stand by my dislike for GM as a whole. My beef with them is the title of #1 car maker that they have held for how long??? I honestly and truely do not believe that they deserve the title. I think the lack of efforts on a lot of fronts should have put them out of business years ago. On the domestic front (whatever THAT is nowadays)I think FMC and Chrysler do a better job at nailing their intended audience better than GM. Combine that with the Asian competition consistantly gaining ground GM is getting squeezed at all sides.

    Times like these, "half right" isn't going to work, "good enough" isn't going to win buyers back and "just wait until next year" isn't deserving of the title of #1.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Not around here where dealers "over mark" the Benz on the used car lots. The Closes MB dealer is 2-1/2 hours away in Lubbock. Boy they are expensive to fix too. So even a pre-owned would cost me a bunndle before it's over.

    Rocky
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    I don't think Buick can compete against Bimmers or Mercedes any better than Cadillac can. Remember the Allante couldn't and neither can the current XLR.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Ok I can except your stance. hopefully someday they make you a car that you want to own.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Buick is suppose to battle it out with some Lexus models, Some MB models, and some Toyota models, etc etc. Cadillac has proven it can compete in every segment and will continue to get even better. Pontiac G8 I see being the car that fights it out with BMW 3 The CTS-V will whip the M5 and the laundry is done.

    Rocky :P
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    They do.

    image

    image

    ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    For a guy who doesn't like GM cars very sure has some nice photo's. Lemme guess. You only drive it at Night so your secret skeleton in your closet isn't seen ???? :P

    Anyways nice pics and nice rides. Classics

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Which model is that?

    The reliability might be there, but reliability is not the same as quality, not to mention desirabiliy. It seems a lot of GM enthusiasts have problems with the quality/reliability issue.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    That's the same with any car. If you're looking to avoid a huge raw dollar loss on a new car, you're best to look at a Rio or something, it costs nothing new, so depreciating into nothing is a small step.

    Let's see what a loaded DTS or Lucerne sells for in 24-36 months.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I gotta admit, it is not my car. :cry: I found the pic online... But it is a GM model that I aspire to own one day.
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    "I think you've made that point here that you don't like GM and want to be as negative as possible to anything that changes"
    reply:
    My point is I believe nothing has changed.You can't call a name change or a press release real change. A pig in a dress is still pig. Bill C.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Pontiac G8 I see being the car that fights it out with BMW 3 The CTS-V will whip the M5 and the laundry is done.

    Somebody has definitely spiked your drink. I won't argue about whether or not the CTS-V offers more bang for the buck vs. the M5. Certainly nothing wrong with the CTS-V, but out perform an M5 it won't. Ok, the CTS-V gets better fuel economy.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    Name the only non-hybrid that gets over 40mpg?

    ---

    The Volkswagen Golf and Jetta TDI? Wait... that's two non-hybrid cars with MPG over 40.

    :P
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    "Pontiac G8 I see being the car that fights it out with BMW 3 The CTS-V will whip the M5 and the laundry is done".

    Someone sees a Pontiac/Cadillac going after BMW customers??? Your kidding,right? Odds are better that Charlie Manson will win a multi state Lotto and he'll marry Beyonce' on the Springer Show. I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Bill C.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    NAFTA came into effect when Bill C. was in office, too! :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,674
    >a bright future that was going to filled with good jobs.

    If you didn't mind triangulation and borrowing from the future, he was nice. But that borrowing from the future with pretend surpluses via accounting changes eventually catch up with the nation. Saying one thing and making people think one thing was going on while he really was doing another seems to have continued through today. Low interest rates helped keep the deficit appearing low.

    Our businesses have been sold into other countries. The mantra of its a world economy have been nice for politicians, but not so nice for the workers. But some don't seem to mind as long as they can "feel good" about what's happening.

    The union vs. world order is going to play out. How effectively GM US can break the union determines how the company looks 10 years from now.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    "The union vs. world order is going to play out. How effectively GM US can break the union determines how the company looks 10 years from now. "

    Qutoed for truth.
  • jray4jray4 Member Posts: 18
    You can have the best styles and engineering in the world, but if the news media keeps pounding and pounding the same negative news week after week, no company could survive! Toyota is just sitting back and enjoying every bit of it while the American news media is helping destroy the American auto industry. Why can't they focus on some new technoloy that the US is about to come out with in the near future (like for example, the two mode transmission --to be used in their soon to be release hybrids). If we lose GM, Ford will be next and one day we'll ask ourself, what happened? Nothing is made in the USA anymore. The Japanese got where they got by not playing fair while the US goverment just sits back and does nothing.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The Japanese got where they got by not playing fair while the US government just sits back and does nothing.

    It's not the Japanese I'm worried about. At least they pay comparable wages back in Japan and have incentives to build plants here in the US. OTOH, China is taking jobs from everyone including Japan.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...I bet "anythyngbutgm" drives a 1999 Oldsmobile Cutlass sedan at night. They say some guy from Edmunds came over to the dealer and immediately bought my girlfriend's old ride. Could you get an objective opinion about a Camry from somebody who calls himself "notoyotas?"
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    in the next few weeks regarding GM, Delphi and the like. The sad fact remains that the industry is hurting, they're bleeding red ink so badly that the workers must budge, back down a bit in their demands.

    Hey, I was a Ford man before turning to Kia. I liked my Ford's but was not crazy about them. If the Focus hadn't turned into such a recall fiasco I might have stayed in the Ford camp(I researched the Focus from Ford and liked it on paper and the pictures, sort of, that is, but never sprung for one). But it did turn into a fiasco and I've found a foreign car provider that works well for me.

    The Detroit automakers should be humbling themselves into turning out better product. I think they're moving that direction. The new concept Camaro should be rushed into production. It's exactly what they need. The HHR is selling and answering the PT Cruiser challenge, but unusual projects like the SSR (which I applaud Chevy for)have not caught on but seem to have only annoyed the public.

    With their borrowing rating turned to junk status and valuable profit margin sinking(actually bleeding) the parts houses and direct GM employees have to give.

    THe UAW will need to budge. Somehow on this one they will.
    Paying people to sit and read the newspaper is not the way to stay competitive with the imports. Americans are voting with their pocketbooks on this issue and Toyota continues to gain market share along with Honda, Nissan, Toyota, etc. My South Korean favorite Kia is gaining year over year in sales and is planning a huge tech/testing center in So-Cal.

    Sure, Toyota is concerned about shaming GM too badly. But how concerned do you think they really are?

    Who knows, maybe GM can pull it off. My old employer, Boeing, is coming back strong now in their battle against Airbus. I've found life in the hospital industry and won't go back to Boeing. A lot of my friends who were also laid off have gone back to Boeing in the Pacific NW and I'm happy for them. I just am choosing to get off of that particular roller coaster, for life. :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    My winter vehicle is a 94' Nissan Pickup truck. Single cab, 5.5' bed, 2.4l with a 5-speed and 4WD. Bought it off my BIL for 1000 bucks with 165k on the clock.

    Just replaced the belts at the 200k mark. :D
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Does that mean the LaCrosse will be a clone of the Aura?
This discussion has been closed.