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What, was it top ten cars for 2005 in "Oprah" magazine?
Rocky
link title
We got a reincarnated Cavalier instead...
Rocky
Somehow "slayer" and Buick sound like an oxymoron. Who in their right mind is going to cross shop a Mercedes and a Buick BTW??? How's the marketing going to work for that one? Willfred Brimley blasting down the Autobahn in a Buick?
Right now a flagship Lucerne is advertising a $26,880 starting price. A flagship priced about the same as a Ford 500 doesn't exactly scream Mercedes Benz fighter...
in WW-2, but regardless Buick is a nameplate that can compete with Lexus and Mercedes Benz lower models. The Buick Velite if it makes production was said to be around $40-44K and yes there is cache when Tigers driving around in one. Anything he touches turns to gold. :shades:
Rocky
Rocky
Here is someextravagant Buick concept with twin turbo and promises of engineering that will llikely require 50-60k pricetag.
Then Chevy is readying the turbo Ecotec. Putting more hope into the little Solistice and Sky.. or trying to revive the dull Cobalt...Then there are the plans for Camaro and RWD Impala... In the meanwhile they are releasing full size SUV's
Is it just me of it there something missing?
Rgular FWD Compact of good quality?
Regular FWD and/or AWD Midsize
those two classes are the meat and potatoes of all other car manufacturers.. is GM really thinking that niche models will bring n $9bn in annual profit to cover the hole?
Up to my knowledge, none of the recent niche cars, like Focus SVT, SRT4 etc ever covered the R&D costs..
Why does Gm think heir niche cars wil be different? Niche cars can work in raising the attntion of customers and lead them to buy the mainstream model...
And here is the issue.. there is no mainstream model a regular run of the mill customer would want to buy...
Malibu has its niche...
Cobalt is clear value buy.. not a regular compact buy...
The G6 is an OK contender, but it seems to be failing to present itself as a realcontender to CamCord...
Is GM Blind or does it have access to some secret I do not know about?
Igor
GM has a gaping hole in te
Build quality????????????? Even the cheapest Benz, a C230 Kompressor coupe' that graced my driveway for 3 years and over 100,000 miles was built like a tank. A typical Mercedes Benz, over-engineered, Tank. Nary a squeek or rattle, nary a switch that didn't "snick snick" like a Metronome, nary a flake of plastic came off the interior, that car was solid.
CXS looks vs the Benzes are subjective, but no way can a Buick match, let alone beat a Benz in Build quality.
Reliability scores can be traced to absolute simplicity of the Buick as opposed to the techno-laden Benzes. We'll see how well the latest "Precision Engineering" holds up over the long haul...
No offense intended. Just having a friendly debate.
Lucerne got a good review and interior was mentioned IIRC. The Passat review mentioned poorly done interior (Knobs do I recall mentioned). Guess not every car company is putting together than elusive, mystical, wonderful interior that is in someone's mind's eye.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I said hell atleast the Hyundai knows it's going to break down and that's why they give the industry's best warranty with confidence. "I think it's a hidden conspiracy theory" They also wanna make money off the cokes and vending machines while you wait. :P
BillC your swinging at the Juggulator with pulling the worst buicks from the 80's.
Rocky
P.S. The Velite won't sell for $50-60K. The $40-44K quote was by a Buick official at the autoshow. perhaps a accidental leak.
Didn't know they fired anyone over it. Wow, now THAT is how you deal with failure. Out with the dirty laundry. :shades:
I'd like to take a shot at that question, even though it was not directed at me. I bought 3 GM products (all new) during the 80's decade. All were disappointing to say the least. The experience was poor going all the way down to the dealership level. Nobody cared. I walked way from GM. During the the 90's GM only built more of the same or worse. I can list all the names and brands of all the crap they have built, but it's been done to death. With such experience and records, IF GM was my wife or my boss would I just assume they are now trustworthy and all should be forgiven? The GM behavior is as arrogant as ever with Waggoner and Lutz telling us all that things are not their fault,it's somehow everybodies else fault? You can trust them all you want with your money, I'll pass untill I see results that are more than magazine review hyperboil. Bill C.
If Mercedes made some of the cars I like more affordable I'd probably accept them better.
The same is for BMW. The next M3 Sedan is going to run upwards of $60K and will be way out of my price range. So basically from 97-2007 the BMW M3 has gone from a $39K to a $59K $2,000 a yr. is alot !
Rocky
But I thought the "rides nice" part of earlier Buicks was what was wrong with GM. They were supposed to bang you around like them "fereign" cars because that's the way they have to be to handle properly. (I love the ride of my 03 LeSabre.)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And the service more affordable...
Like my optometrists says, you can't afford to breath the air in the orthodontist's office and the BMW dealership.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think you've made that point here that you don't like GM and want to be as negative as possible to anything that changes.
Do you think things might have changed toward the better? Perhaps not as perfect as your Accord or Camry but showing better in JDP? I'd like to have seen better management and better use of funds than golden parachutes and huge executive compensations and unions that are overpaid.
Thank you for a clear response.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Solutions are win-win when you have a deal paid for by the government like The Trade Act.
I retrained in the Allied Health field which, if anybody's reading this message and thinking of job training, is booming and the need will continue to grow as the baby boomers age.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
fintail, I was doing Azera to MB comparison to make reference of the real reliability of a Benz according to CR. I know I was stretching the truth a bit.... :P
Bottom Line: I want that AMG 4 seater convertible Mercedes makes
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I personally miss William Jefferson Clinton, His speeches and state of the union address's gave my generation hope for a bright future that was going to filled with good jobs. President Bush didn't continue on that tradition and kicked those hopes and dreams down a hole. :mad:
Rocky
As a whole, I still stand by my dislike for GM as a whole. My beef with them is the title of #1 car maker that they have held for how long??? I honestly and truely do not believe that they deserve the title. I think the lack of efforts on a lot of fronts should have put them out of business years ago. On the domestic front (whatever THAT is nowadays)I think FMC and Chrysler do a better job at nailing their intended audience better than GM. Combine that with the Asian competition consistantly gaining ground GM is getting squeezed at all sides.
Times like these, "half right" isn't going to work, "good enough" isn't going to win buyers back and "just wait until next year" isn't deserving of the title of #1.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky :P
Anyways nice pics and nice rides. Classics
Rocky
The reliability might be there, but reliability is not the same as quality, not to mention desirabiliy. It seems a lot of GM enthusiasts have problems with the quality/reliability issue.
Let's see what a loaded DTS or Lucerne sells for in 24-36 months.
reply:
My point is I believe nothing has changed.You can't call a name change or a press release real change. A pig in a dress is still pig. Bill C.
Somebody has definitely spiked your drink. I won't argue about whether or not the CTS-V offers more bang for the buck vs. the M5. Certainly nothing wrong with the CTS-V, but out perform an M5 it won't. Ok, the CTS-V gets better fuel economy.
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The Volkswagen Golf and Jetta TDI? Wait... that's two non-hybrid cars with MPG over 40.
:P
Someone sees a Pontiac/Cadillac going after BMW customers??? Your kidding,right? Odds are better that Charlie Manson will win a multi state Lotto and he'll marry Beyonce' on the Springer Show. I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Bill C.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
If you didn't mind triangulation and borrowing from the future, he was nice. But that borrowing from the future with pretend surpluses via accounting changes eventually catch up with the nation. Saying one thing and making people think one thing was going on while he really was doing another seems to have continued through today. Low interest rates helped keep the deficit appearing low.
Our businesses have been sold into other countries. The mantra of its a world economy have been nice for politicians, but not so nice for the workers. But some don't seem to mind as long as they can "feel good" about what's happening.
The union vs. world order is going to play out. How effectively GM US can break the union determines how the company looks 10 years from now.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Qutoed for truth.
It's not the Japanese I'm worried about. At least they pay comparable wages back in Japan and have incentives to build plants here in the US. OTOH, China is taking jobs from everyone including Japan.
Hey, I was a Ford man before turning to Kia. I liked my Ford's but was not crazy about them. If the Focus hadn't turned into such a recall fiasco I might have stayed in the Ford camp(I researched the Focus from Ford and liked it on paper and the pictures, sort of, that is, but never sprung for one). But it did turn into a fiasco and I've found a foreign car provider that works well for me.
The Detroit automakers should be humbling themselves into turning out better product. I think they're moving that direction. The new concept Camaro should be rushed into production. It's exactly what they need. The HHR is selling and answering the PT Cruiser challenge, but unusual projects like the SSR (which I applaud Chevy for)have not caught on but seem to have only annoyed the public.
With their borrowing rating turned to junk status and valuable profit margin sinking(actually bleeding) the parts houses and direct GM employees have to give.
THe UAW will need to budge. Somehow on this one they will.
Paying people to sit and read the newspaper is not the way to stay competitive with the imports. Americans are voting with their pocketbooks on this issue and Toyota continues to gain market share along with Honda, Nissan, Toyota, etc. My South Korean favorite Kia is gaining year over year in sales and is planning a huge tech/testing center in So-Cal.
Sure, Toyota is concerned about shaming GM too badly. But how concerned do you think they really are?
Who knows, maybe GM can pull it off. My old employer, Boeing, is coming back strong now in their battle against Airbus. I've found life in the hospital industry and won't go back to Boeing. A lot of my friends who were also laid off have gone back to Boeing in the Pacific NW and I'm happy for them. I just am choosing to get off of that particular roller coaster, for life.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Just replaced the belts at the 200k mark.