My dad's 51 Chevy had that as did my 54 Mercedes. I think my grandfather's 49 Buick did as well. They aren't hard to find pre-1955 and are back again..... They're nice in a cute kind of way but not something I'd worry about when picking a car.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Was intro'd on the 2000 S2000. It was inspired by formula one. It was probably found on the exotic Ferraris, but Honda brought it into the more mainstream market. It's one of my favorite features on my 04'. Although, it would be pretty tight to turn a key in the conventional ignition lock so I bet that was more the reason for the button...
BTW, that's pretty cool if it was on a classic. Much like the push button gear selection, it's one of those neat little concepts that broke out of the conventional mold of its time.
Actually, there really ARE no truly bad current GM vehicles to discuss, so people have to reach way back into the past to find 'em. The Corvair really wasn't that bad anyway.
I think I recall a 1948 or 1949 Cadillac that used a pushbutton start, and a 1950 Buick had a pushbutton start below the gas pedal. Congrats, 'Yota! You came up with an idea that was used nearly 60 years ago!
oh no, they are all bad...just ask all these toyota trolls on this board...i have had 3 new GM cars over years and all ran good...for less money than christlike, beyond reproach toyotas and their "were smarter than you owners" who pay more for them...
Although, it would be pretty tight to turn a key in the conventional ignition lock so I bet that was more the reason for the button...
The button is pretty gimmicky. You still have to put the key into the ignition and turn it to the ON position before you hit the button, and turn the key to OFF to shut down the engine. It is fun to start with the button, especially with the loud exhaust on mine.
i have a 07 focus with 10000 miles on it...i like it a lot...i am tall and it is very roomy and inexpensive...best seller in britain...i am very pleasantly surprised with it...i liked the way the citation looked too
I'll agree with lemko on the no bad cars comment. It's getting harder and harder to find a bad car anywhere anymore. It's not like 30 years ago when you had your pick amongst dozens of awful choices - Gremlins, LeCars, Pintos, Vegas.... heck, even the exalted Corolla wasn't in its current place of honor back then. Probably had the interior room of a Smart and the gas mileage of a LeSabre...
The cutest gimmick in button starters these days are those ones that read a signal from your key fob so you never have to take your key out of your pocket. Maybe we'll get those Jetsons cars yet.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Where did you read the Silverado doesnt have traction control? The Tundra COSTS MORE and thus has more standard equipment. As for the brakes, the SIlverado stopped shorter in the C&D comparison it won several months ago. Dont know what good all those pistons are doing. The GM trucks have a power rear window, again some fact checking would be nice. I'm not quite sure what makes you feel qualified to post so much in a GM forum.
The main reason GM's truck sales are down are lowest in class incentives. We'll see what Toyota does if GM matches their $5000 offers.
" That's my point! GM doesn't have a Plan B. The CTS will be played-out by 2010. "
wrong again, the 3.6L can be bored out to 3.8L and turbo charged if GM decides to do so. The smaller 2.8L makes 280hp with a turbo. I would imagine 350 would be easily attainable with a turbo on the 3.6.
Mercedes, Lincoln and Jag currently lack 300hp V6 engines. That may change at some point, but right now GM has them beat. Acura has one but its only available in a $50k RL. The CTS' true competitor has 258hp.
well in road tests, but they have spotty and shoddy reliability. While some models garner average returns, some are complete crap for lack of a better word.
Inconsistency!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
So, the CVT with its infinite gearing is the stuff. :shades:
When someone argues HP, counter with torque. If they own the torque numbers too, then ... dunno, pull out the crash test scores? Keep going down the list far enough and your favorite ride will be "better" at one spec or other. :P
"who cares? when you have an excellent R&D program it doesnt take long to turn out a top notch product. I am tired of the excuses. Toyota has been making trucks for this market for decades. How long can you say they are new to the pickup market?"
I didn;t say Toyota was new to the pick-up what I had said was Toyota does not have a reputation for building an excellent large pick-up truck.
My wife just had her 06 Ford 500 company car replaced with an 07 GrandPrix. What a piece of crap.
It is by far the most uncomfortable vehicle I've been in since my wife's '92 Saturn SL2. The front seats kill both mine and my wife's back, the dash materials are extremely cheap looks like it was melted from a chocolate bar. The rear seating is basically nonexistent for anyone over the age of like 12. It rides terrible, yet doesn't handle well either. It's obvious the roots of the GrandPrix go back a long time. It feels like a car from a decade or so ago. With 5000 miles on the clock it already has a dash rattles. The fit and finish is horrible. Lots of variation in panel gaps. I can't believe anyone would buy one of these cars. I'd bet many go to fleet.
I will say the new upgraded 3800 isn't bad. It's peppy and smooth to about 4000rpm, after that, it gets a little coarse and punchless. Don't know how it compares on paper, but the Ford 500 with CVT felt faster above 50mph, while the GP 3800 was much quicker from a dead stop to about 40. Steering feel is OK, but torque steer is noticeable. The GP with a 5.3 would have to be scary, making two handed driving a must while mashing the pedal.
As for fuel economy, I keep hearing the 3800 is like a miracle engine with reports north of 30mpg in large sedans. So far it has yet to match the 500 which routinely got 25+ on a tank, the best the GP has gotten so far is around 24. With a 70/30 mix highway/city.
I don't think this car will be missed when GM finally puts it out of its misery in a year or two
That brings up an interesting point. The airbag light on my wife's LS400 was always lit. We took it to the local Lexus rip-off dealer. Estimate to repair the airbag problem $1200. We said no thanks we will live with the light on. When we found an independent Lexus repair shop he reset the onboard computer and the light was gone. He did it while doing necessary repairs with NO CHARGE. I guess if you have a new Lexus with 10 airbags the dealer would want $12,000 to repair the car when the lights go on. I imagine the insurance companies will raise the premiums to cover the cost to replace all those airbags when you have a fender bender.
what I had said was Toyota does not have a reputation for building an excellent large pick-up truck.
I'll say amen to that for sure. And they still don't. Maybe in 10 years they will be able to match Dodge Ram trucks. Toy truck fits them pretty nicely.
My father had a 98' and now he has an 04'. The engine is much smoother in the newer one while the 98' sounded like a popcorn popper coming out of the tailpile 'brahbababababababa'.... Ugh. :sick: Oh, the pep you feel off the line is the jumpy throttle that persists in GM products. I don't know if they design it in to give a feeling of power, but it is obnoxious in traffic, way too hard to modulate. Either you're nothing, or lunging forward. :sick: Good thing about it is he gets decent mileage, like 31 - 32mpg. Not bad.
The rest of your assessment is spot on, the rest of the car is abysmal. For the most part my dads has has been reliable, but in a cheap minimalist, nothing really to go wrong kind of way. He did have an intake manifold go bad within the first month or so and lately the CEL has been stuck on (for like the past 4 months). Oh and the tranny whines, might need to be replaced. I think he has about 120k on it (company car) and between it and the Taurus, he chose the Prix. I don't know what I would choose there...
The worst part is the little info display with the 2 bit graphics. I think the Atari 2600 graphics were more advanced... And the rear seat accomodations are the worst as the seat design forces your bottom forward while your back doesn't make contact with the seatback until below your shoulders. Oh and your head gets wedged into the rear window, something that always bugs the crap out of me with GM sedans... It's like they're designed to keep people away from sitting in the rear seat.
Thankfully, that cars' days are numbered. Of course there are other "badge jobs" still out there but one less is a good thing. :sick:
Why was the 500 replaced? My father is looking at those for the next CC which is most of the reason I responded.
40 years ago Toyota did not have a reputation for building ANY vehicle to sell in this country...
Where are they now?
Actually I bought my first new Toyota 43 years ago. I was proud to own one of the first Toyota Land Cruisers in America. Too bad the engine was a substandard copy of the Chevy 6. They did not have free towing service then either. I needed it 3 times in the first 25k miles.
Why was the 500 replaced? My father is looking at those for the next CC which is most of the reason I responded.
My wife (us) was relocated. The 500 stayed with the old district she was in for her replacement to use. She was moved to start a new district and someone at corporate ordered the car for her. Unfortunately it was a Grand Prix. Her employer offers the choice of a 500, Impala, or GP.
Your right about the rear seat. Man, I wouldn't put anyone back there over 5'8" for fear of injury incase of getting rear ended. When I sit back there, my head rests against the rear window. That can't be safe.
The 500 (Taurus)isn't a bad car. It has a respectably tight structure and an unbelievable amount of room. Sure, cost cutting is obvious with some interior bits, but my main complaint has been fixed with the new 3.5 v6.
Well at least relocation can be good. New opportunities, new places to see. Congrats if its a good thing for you guys.
I am steering my father towards the 500 Taurus as well. It was a welcome replacement from the old Taurus, not that the old one was bad, just the interior was too bleh. The new one is so much nicer and the 3.5 is supposedly a gem of an engine. I've read good things about it. He is actually open to the Impala, which I think is a good car myself but he doesn't think his company would flip the bill for it (limited choices).
The relo was very good. When my wife got the 500, it was her favorite between the Impala, and GP. Mainly due to how much room it had. The rear seat in the Impala is some what cramped IMO too. But, I agree that the Impala is at the very least a decent car.
Now that we're stuck with the GP, we don't even drive it(even though it's basically free for us to do so), she uses it for her job, then it sits. I'd rather drive my Suburban than that POS.
Still have the burban! Wow, gas prices haven't scared you off yet? I think I remember you saying it was there for the utility, which makes sense. At least the GP could be good to save a few bucks at the pump compared to the big ute...
Anyways, congrats on the move, sorry to hear they dumped a Grand Prix in your driveway because of it, lol.
Anyways, congrats on the move, sorry to hear they dumped a Grand Prix in your driveway because of it, lol.
LOL, gotta take the good with the bad.
Yep still have the Burb. I need it to tow the boat. The fuel economy of the boat makes the burb look like a prius. But it makes for great family fun, so it's worth every penny.
What's the year that Toyota built its first full size truck
I believe 1967 was about the time they built the Land Cruiser PU truck. They would have been ahead to build off of that fine piece of hardware. Put in the diesel engine used the world over and they would not have ended up with the foo foo Tundra.
What's wrong with a Tundra? It is a Toyota and this is a GM thread. So the superiority of the GM truck will be shouted out loud for all the GM bashers to hear.
You mean other than being an overpriced gas guzzler? I will check them out and take a test drive. Quiet smooth ride is very high on my list. The last generation Tundra was very noisy compared to my GMC.
I haven't had time to keep up with the boards but I saw on Lou Dobb, the other night that Chrysler, is going to import Chin-E cars and slap Dodge emblems on em'. :surprise: I was a bit surprise and said wow it's happening sooner than I thought.
I sure hope GM, doesn't start to do this. I guess eventually I will witness this by Ford and GM. :sick: :mad:
Well Chrysler sold Mitsubishi's with their brands on them and GM Aveo is basically an Daewoo, and the Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota Matrix, so??? Will people accept a China built car. Guessing that so far, it is not an issue for this forum yet, but there could be a Buick in the future and they have used some China engines in the Envoy. And prior discussion brought up the fact of parts made there and used in cars which I never heard of. Wonder what parts are in a GM made in China? Loren
Yes, GM people seem to be fascinated by Toyota. Hope that management at GM is not so fix focused.
I visited the Saturn place to see what they had for comparison testing. Did not see a V6 model of the Camry or Accord there at all. Both are the i4, which look like comparable prices, though we all know you can get some $1,500 to $2000+ off the sticker on any Hon or Toy. Should be interesting to see if this helps the sales of the Aura. If you sit in all three cars, the Aura I think will feel a bit smaller. As for the ride, it is anyone's choice. The Camry should feel the softer, the Aura a bit tighter, and the Accord more sporty ( or you can use the term harsher ). The steering is more heavy in the Accord, so that is a plus or a minus. I realize it is like choosing a beer or a cola for someone else and saying this one is better -- won't work ya know. Same for the placement of the emergency brake, which is on the floor for Aura and Camry ( i think ) and on the center console for the Accord. I prefer the hand brake, though some may point to the more space for cup holders or whatnot. Interior look, fit and feel, I liked the Accord, but the Aura was good in some ways too. The Camry has parts not meeting up well and some plastics which look easy to scratch or of not a good color match. I would think the most quiet would be the Camry, while having the most cabin space. Road noise for the Accord seems slightly higher than the Aura when both have the low profile tires. The base model Aura may have a larger difference in road or tire noise over the i4 Accord SE. I like the power of the XR Aura and the transmission is good. Dittos for the Accord SE V6. Handling / steering I still prefer the Accord, but that is my opinion, like so many things are in a car test run. The Aura is close. The Aura XE may be a tick faster than the i4 Accord, but doesn't feel snappy like the XR does, and I am not sure the 0-60 times or 60-90 times are going to be all that much different than those of an i4 Accord. Once again, it did not feel like punching through the corners, or really kicking to pass any better than the i4 Accord. I would imagine the Camry to be pretty slow compared to the other two. If you want a stick, the Accord would be the one.
So what happens when the New Accord comes out? Will they have those for testing? And what about the V6 models? Loren
Well, since you indicated that they could not build a truck, I assumed you had some sort of evidence. Guess not.
Interesting that some people make an accusation about another car company, then say they don't want to talk about it. Well OK, fine. I can only assume that it was just blowing smoke. We'll never learn of the superiority of the GM truck now. Seriously, just wanted to know what was it which you did not like about Tundra compared to any other truck, since you said Toyota can not seem to build a truck which was good. I do not own one, but my cousin bought one. Wondering what was so wrong with the truck as to not make it worthy of considering. The GM trucks seem to be doing well, with awards and all, so I for one could not say it is not a worthy contender. Loren
Well, since you indicated that they could not build a truck, I assumed you had some sort of evidence. Guess not.
I think you need to wander over to one of the Toyota threads to see how serious the negatives are against the Tundra. GM trucks outsell all the rest without the heavy discounting. Ask DrFill, he will tell you numbers sold is what makes a vehicle the BEST.
There is a reason for that, they are superior to the competition. Do I like the most recent offering from GM. Not particularly. I DO NOT like any truck since 2001. The race to see who can build the ugliest truck is not getting me excited. I am only sad that I sold my 1999 Suburban and bought the 2005 GMC Hybrid. When I sell it, I will buy an old beater Ranger. Then wait for the automakers to get their heads out of the sand and build a decent diesel SUV. VW, Honda & Mercedes look like the obvious choices today.
The '01 Tundra was way too skimpy on the rear bench seat. With my elbow against the seatback of the back seat, my fingers reached the back of the front seat. About $3k more than an equally equipped Chevy, about 13 city 15 hwy mpg from their 4.7 back in '01. The new Toyota looks bigger and nicer. I hear a lot about the big pricetags on them though. The '07 Silverados are lower priced than mine was in '01 for same equipment. Chevy has made lots of features standard and dropped the price over the last 6 years. Ford is getting hard to beat on price. Today they are offering new F-150 with air for $11,990.
Friend of my Dad bought an F150 and has nothing but trouble. Just about everything has been replaced, be it transmission to engine. He is not happy. Another friend loves Ford trucks and has had decent luck with his. Ya never know. With Chrysler/Dodge in flux, and not so sure I am trusting of Ford, I would likely look at the GM trucks in full size first, then after careful research on reliability, look over the Ford options. Certainly have a good history, but I have heard of too many needing transmission repairs and other stuff. With a truck it is always hard though to tell the difference between use, hard use and abuse, but even those still liking Ford, I have known quite a few needing repairs. But alas, what three, four or five people you know have to say, is but a small sampling to go by. For features and power, I don't know- no truck expert. As for looks, those new Chevy trucks look OK. Looks better than the flat sides on the Ford. As for Ford looks,the previous models look way better. The Titan and Tundra may not be ready for prime time -- we'll see how things shake out over the next few years.
GM did a pretty good job on the make over of the SUVs. Some good looking SUVs in all sizes. For my needs though, something like the sporty CX-7 Mazda come to mind. Now, if I had the bucks, that SRX Cadillac is mighty fine in the crossover class. And the Acadia looks great. Something about the Enclave doesn't do it for me. Such interesting swoops and rounds, that it really should be sexy, but for some reason, perhaps the size, it just doesn't work IMHO as perfect. Certainly a pleasing look over all, but not what I would pick as a best of GM SUV design. Another more futuristic look, which I think comes off looking good is the Murano. The New Outlook by Saturn looks pretty sharp in a more conventional shaped SUV with some sharp extra details and wheel fender with some flare - kinda sporty without being too over the top or wild. I was waiting around the Saturn place one day and sat in one of those Outlooks --pretty impressive inside and out. Those Saturn people are so happy to see the new stuff arriving. The Sky is a beauty. Couple a tweaks and an added roll bar, and that would be one cool little ride. Loren
Nice summary. I note your observation about the Camry parts not fitting and matching. Are some of the parts just painted rather than having a plastic layer?
The emergency brake always concerned me when it was in the console and one had to pull up and back on it while heading toward something you really don't want to hit. You're usually wanting to brace against the forward movement so pushing on a foot brake is much better. I had a center emergency brake in one Mustang IIRC.
The appearance, arrangement inside, the driving feel, and other things are all subjective. Some of the people who are Hondaphiles or Toyotophiles will like those arrangements better just because they are familiar with them.
Having the gumption to put similarly priced cars from competition right on the lot shows GM is serious.
>$1500 to $2000 off sticker.
Only if there are buyer incentives would that happen for HOToy in this area. For HOnda if they are dealer incentives the unknowing customer most likely won't see them. If there is something taken off for Toyo it will be added right back on with an additional sticker for nearly $1000 and additional dealer fees for region and local dealer added after a price is agreed on by the customer unless they specificy out-the-door. I don't see ADM stickers on GMs in this area.
"well in road tests, but they have spotty and shoddy reliability. While some models garner average returns, some are complete crap for lack of a better word.
Inconsistency! "
wrong again, most GM models have average or better reliability but their overall ranking in their respective classes is poor. Very few GM models ever score in the upper half of their classes, not even the new large SUVs. Very few GM models have poor reliability in CR. If you have proof otherwise let us know. Remember, since reliability continues to improve across the board, "average" isnt bad at all these days.
"I didn;t say Toyota was new to the pick-up what I had said was Toyota does not have a reputation for building an excellent large pick-up truck. "
and why is that? They have more money than GM/Ford, better development processes, better quality, lower overhead costs, etc. What possible excuse could there be for Toyota not to succeed in the full size pickup market? Sure they are doing better now, but that is mainly due to heavy incentives on a 4 month old truck and a $100M ad campaign that drowns out almost everyone else.
Comments
BTW, that's pretty cool if it was on a classic. Much like the push button gear selection, it's one of those neat little concepts that broke out of the conventional mold of its time.
The button is pretty gimmicky. You still have to put the key into the ignition and turn it to the ON position before you hit the button, and turn the key to OFF to shut down the engine. It is fun to start with the button, especially with the loud exhaust on mine.
The cutest gimmick in button starters these days are those ones that read a signal from your key fob so you never have to take your key out of your pocket. Maybe we'll get those Jetsons cars yet.
The Citation was a good idea, with appallingly poor execution.
exactly. and uninformed as far as I can tell.
Where did you read the Silverado doesnt have traction control? The Tundra COSTS MORE and thus has more standard equipment. As for the brakes, the SIlverado stopped shorter in the C&D comparison it won several months ago. Dont know what good all those pistons are doing. The GM trucks have a power rear window, again some fact checking would be nice. I'm not quite sure what makes you feel qualified to post so much in a GM forum.
The main reason GM's truck sales are down are lowest in class incentives. We'll see what Toyota does if GM matches their $5000 offers.
wrong again, the 3.6L can be bored out to 3.8L and turbo charged if GM decides to do so. The smaller 2.8L makes 280hp with a turbo. I would imagine 350 would be easily attainable with a turbo on the 3.6.
Mercedes, Lincoln and Jag currently lack 300hp V6 engines. That may change at some point, but right now GM has them beat. Acura has one but its only available in a $50k RL. The CTS' true competitor has 258hp.
They have side curtain airbags, what about seat mounted side airbags, for chest protection?
Fact checking would be nice. On your part.
The Tundra's whole rear window powers down, unlike the Chevy, which has a partial opening rear window, that you have to pay for as well. :surprise:
Regarding my qualifications, knowing more than you about the Silvy is a nice start.
DrFill
Cars: Ignore the airbag wars (CNN)
Number of gears, size of the interior......
DrFill
Inconsistency!
So, the CVT with its infinite gearing is the stuff. :shades:
When someone argues HP, counter with torque. If they own the torque numbers too, then ... dunno, pull out the crash test scores? Keep going down the list far enough and your favorite ride will be "better" at one spec or other. :P
We were talking full-sized trucks, no?
DrFill
I didn;t say Toyota was new to the pick-up what I had said was Toyota does not have a reputation for building an excellent large pick-up truck.
It is by far the most uncomfortable vehicle I've been in since my wife's '92 Saturn SL2. The front seats kill both mine and my wife's back, the dash materials are extremely cheap looks like it was melted from a chocolate bar. The rear seating is basically nonexistent for anyone over the age of like 12. It rides terrible, yet doesn't handle well either. It's obvious the roots of the GrandPrix go back a long time. It feels like a car from a decade or so ago. With 5000 miles on the clock it already has a dash rattles. The fit and finish is horrible. Lots of variation in panel gaps. I can't believe anyone would buy one of these cars. I'd bet many go to fleet.
I will say the new upgraded 3800 isn't bad. It's peppy and smooth to about 4000rpm, after that, it gets a little coarse and punchless. Don't know how it compares on paper, but the Ford 500 with CVT felt faster above 50mph, while the GP 3800 was much quicker from a dead stop to about 40. Steering feel is OK, but torque steer is noticeable. The GP with a 5.3 would have to be scary, making two handed driving a must while mashing the pedal.
As for fuel economy, I keep hearing the 3800 is like a miracle engine with reports north of 30mpg in large sedans. So far it has yet to match the 500 which routinely got 25+ on a tank, the best the GP has gotten so far is around 24. With a 70/30 mix highway/city.
I don't think this car will be missed when GM finally puts it out of its misery in a year or two
I'll say amen to that for sure. And they still don't. Maybe in 10 years they will be able to match Dodge Ram trucks. Toy truck fits them pretty nicely.
Given it's a Lexus, might not ever happen though...
Where are they now?
'brahbababababababa'.... Ugh. :sick: Oh, the pep you feel off the line is the jumpy throttle that persists in GM products. I don't know if they design it in to give a feeling of power, but it is obnoxious in traffic, way too hard to modulate. Either you're nothing, or lunging forward. :sick: Good thing about it is he gets decent mileage, like 31 - 32mpg. Not bad.
The rest of your assessment is spot on, the rest of the car is abysmal. For the most part my dads has has been reliable, but in a cheap minimalist, nothing really to go wrong kind of way. He did have an intake manifold go bad within the first month or so and lately the CEL has been stuck on (for like the past 4 months). Oh and the tranny whines, might need to be replaced. I think he has about 120k on it (company car) and between it and the Taurus, he chose the Prix. I don't know what I would choose there...
The worst part is the little info display with the 2 bit graphics. I think the Atari 2600 graphics were more advanced... And the rear seat accomodations are the worst as the seat design forces your bottom forward while your back doesn't make contact with the seatback until below your shoulders. Oh and your head gets wedged into the rear window, something that always bugs the crap out of me with GM sedans... It's like they're designed to keep people away from sitting in the rear seat.
Thankfully, that cars' days are numbered. Of course there are other "badge jobs" still out there but one less is a good thing. :sick:
Why was the 500 replaced? My father is looking at those for the next CC which is most of the reason I responded.
Where are they now?
Actually I bought my first new Toyota 43 years ago. I was proud to own one of the first Toyota Land Cruisers in America. Too bad the engine was a substandard copy of the Chevy 6. They did not have free towing service then either. I needed it 3 times in the first 25k miles.
My wife (us) was relocated. The 500 stayed with the old district she was in for her replacement to use. She was moved to start a new district and someone at corporate ordered the car for her. Unfortunately it was a Grand Prix. Her employer offers the choice of a 500, Impala, or GP.
Your right about the rear seat. Man, I wouldn't put anyone back there over 5'8" for fear of injury incase of getting rear ended. When I sit back there, my head rests against the rear window. That can't be safe.
The 500 (Taurus)isn't a bad car. It has a respectably tight structure and an unbelievable amount of room. Sure, cost cutting is obvious with some interior bits, but my main complaint has been fixed with the new 3.5 v6.
40 years ago Toyota did not have a reputation for building ANY vehicle to sell in this country...
Where are they now?
I am steering my father towards the
500Taurus as well. It was a welcome replacement from the old Taurus, not that the old one was bad, just the interior was too bleh. The new one is so much nicer and the 3.5 is supposedly a gem of an engine. I've read good things about it. He is actually open to the Impala, which I think is a good car myself but he doesn't think his company would flip the bill for it (limited choices).Now that we're stuck with the GP, we don't even drive it(even though it's basically free for us to do so), she uses it for her job, then it sits. I'd rather drive my Suburban than that POS.
Flailing around trying to build a decent truck?
What's the year that Toyota built its first full size truck (That'll be the T100 I believe)? Last I checked it wasn't 1967.
Anyways, congrats on the move, sorry to hear they dumped a Grand Prix in your driveway because of it, lol.
Cheers!
LOL, gotta take the good with the bad.
Yep still have the Burb. I need it to tow the boat. The fuel economy of the boat makes the burb look like a prius. But it makes for great family fun, so it's worth every penny.
I believe 1967 was about the time they built the Land Cruiser PU truck. They would have been ahead to build off of that fine piece of hardware. Put in the diesel engine used the world over and they would not have ended up with the foo foo Tundra.
The Tacoma seems like a nice little truck. A friend got one, and likes it. He always buys Toy trucks. My cousin just got a Tundra.
Loren
Let's get back to GM IS on the Offensive. Will It Work?
Has anyone been to their Saturn dealer to see how people react to having a Honda and Toyota there to compare?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I sure hope GM, doesn't start to do this. I guess eventually I will witness this by Ford and GM. :sick:
-Rocky
Loren
I visited the Saturn place to see what they had for comparison testing. Did not see a V6 model of the Camry or Accord there at all. Both are the i4, which look like comparable prices, though we all know you can get some $1,500 to $2000+ off the sticker on any Hon or Toy. Should be interesting to see if this helps the sales of the Aura. If you sit in all three cars, the Aura I think will feel a bit smaller. As for the ride, it is anyone's choice. The Camry should feel the softer, the Aura a bit tighter, and the Accord more sporty ( or you can use the term harsher ). The steering is more heavy in the Accord, so that is a plus or a minus. I realize it is like choosing a beer or a cola for someone else and saying this one is better -- won't work ya know. Same for the placement of the emergency brake, which is on the floor for Aura and Camry ( i think ) and on the center console for the Accord. I prefer the hand brake, though some may point to the more space for cup holders or whatnot. Interior look, fit and feel, I liked the Accord, but the Aura was good in some ways too. The Camry has parts not meeting up well and some plastics which look easy to scratch or of not a good color match. I would think the most quiet would be the Camry, while having the most cabin space. Road noise for the Accord seems slightly higher than the Aura when both have the low profile tires. The base model Aura may have a larger difference in road or tire noise over the i4 Accord SE. I like the power of the XR Aura and the transmission is good. Dittos for the Accord SE V6. Handling / steering I still prefer the Accord, but that is my opinion, like so many things are in a car test run. The Aura is close. The Aura XE may be a tick faster than the i4 Accord, but doesn't feel snappy like the XR does, and I am not sure the 0-60 times or 60-90 times are going to be all that much different than those of an i4 Accord. Once again, it did not feel like punching through the corners, or really kicking to pass any better than the i4 Accord. I would imagine the Camry to be pretty slow compared to the other two. If you want a stick, the Accord would be the one.
So what happens when the New Accord comes out? Will they have those for testing? And what about the V6 models?
Loren
Interesting that some people make an accusation about another car company, then say they don't want to talk about it. Well OK, fine. I can only assume that it was just blowing smoke. We'll never learn of the superiority of the GM truck now.
Loren
I think you need to wander over to one of the Toyota threads to see how serious the negatives are against the Tundra. GM trucks outsell all the rest without the heavy discounting. Ask DrFill, he will tell you numbers sold is what makes a vehicle the BEST.
There is a reason for that, they are superior to the competition. Do I like the most recent offering from GM. Not particularly. I DO NOT like any truck since 2001. The race to see who can build the ugliest truck is not getting me excited. I am only sad that I sold my 1999 Suburban and bought the 2005 GMC Hybrid. When I sell it, I will buy an old beater Ranger. Then wait for the automakers to get their heads out of the sand and build a decent diesel SUV. VW, Honda & Mercedes look like the obvious choices today.
GM is the leader, the King of 'em all, y'all! A fine truck, and will need that 6.2 in every one of 'em, pronto!
But GM definitely hears footsteps, and is looking over it's shoulder already! What are they so worried about anyway?
Heavy is the head of he who wears the throne.
DrFill
GM did a pretty good job on the make over of the SUVs. Some good looking SUVs in all sizes. For my needs though, something like the sporty CX-7 Mazda come to mind. Now, if I had the bucks, that SRX Cadillac is mighty fine in the crossover class. And the Acadia looks great. Something about the Enclave doesn't do it for me. Such interesting swoops and rounds, that it really should be sexy, but for some reason, perhaps the size, it just doesn't work IMHO as perfect.
Certainly a pleasing look over all, but not what I would pick as a best of GM SUV design. Another more futuristic look, which I think comes off looking good is the Murano. The New Outlook by Saturn looks pretty sharp in a more conventional shaped SUV with some sharp extra details and wheel fender with some flare - kinda sporty without being too over the top or wild. I was waiting around the Saturn place one day and sat in one of those Outlooks --pretty impressive inside and out. Those Saturn people are so happy to see the new stuff arriving. The Sky is a beauty. Couple a tweaks and an added roll bar, and that would be one cool little ride.
Loren
The emergency brake always concerned me when it was in the console and one had to pull up and back on it while heading toward something you really don't want to hit. You're usually wanting to brace against the forward movement so pushing on a foot brake is much better. I had a center emergency brake in one Mustang IIRC.
The appearance, arrangement inside, the driving feel, and other things are all subjective. Some of the people who are Hondaphiles or Toyotophiles will like those arrangements better just because they are familiar with them.
Having the gumption to put similarly priced cars from competition right on the lot shows GM is serious.
>$1500 to $2000 off sticker.
Only if there are buyer incentives would that happen for HOToy in this area. For HOnda if they are dealer incentives the unknowing customer most likely won't see them. If there is something taken off for Toyo it will be added right back on with an additional sticker for nearly $1000 and additional dealer fees for region and local dealer added after a price is agreed on by the customer unless they specificy out-the-door. I don't see ADM stickers on GMs in this area.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Inconsistency! "
wrong again, most GM models have average or better reliability but their overall ranking in their respective classes is poor. Very few GM models ever score in the upper half of their classes, not even the new large SUVs. Very few GM models have poor reliability in CR. If you have proof otherwise let us know. Remember, since reliability continues to improve across the board, "average" isnt bad at all these days.
and why is that? They have more money than GM/Ford, better development processes, better quality, lower overhead costs, etc. What possible excuse could there be for Toyota not to succeed in the full size pickup market? Sure they are doing better now, but that is mainly due to heavy incentives on a 4 month old truck and a $100M ad campaign that drowns out almost everyone else.