2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV Lease Deals and Prices

Skywalker00

And yes it includes rebates

kyfdx

Skywalker00 said:

And yes it includes rebates

$485/mo+tax with those numbers

Skywalker00

kyfdx said:

And yes it includes rebates

$485/mo+tax with those numbers

Many thanks!

Skywalker00

kyfdx said:

And yes it includes rebates

$485/mo+tax with those numbers

Does $4k drive off make sense?

kyfdx

Skywalker00 said:

kyfdx said:

Skywalker00 said:

And yes it includes rebates

$485/mo+tax with those numbers

Does $4k drive off make sense?

With what payment?
Is the Drive-off the same as Due at Signing, or does it include the rebates?

Ccev

What is the MF and residual for
36/10
36/12k
36/15k
For bolt lt in 90232

They don’t do 30 mo leases do they? That’s what I’d really like!

Thanks

Skywalker00

kyfdx said:

kyfdx said:

And yes it includes rebates

$485/mo+tax with those numbers

Does $4k drive off make sense?

With what payment? Is the Drive-off the same as Due at Signing, or does it include the rebates?

$405/ month with $4k drive off. It sounded good to me so I did it yesterday. Dublin Chevrolet

kyfdx

Ccev said:

What is the MF and residual for
36/10
36/12k
36/15k
For bolt lt in 90232

They don’t do 30 mo leases do they? That’s what I’d really like!

Thanks

36/15
.00180 MF and 54% residual
$3750 customer incentive

We don't show any leases offered under 36 months on the Bolt.
But, you should check with a dealer

kyfdx

Skywalker00 said:

kyfdx said:

Skywalker00 said:

kyfdx said:

Skywalker00 said:

And yes it includes rebates

$485/mo+tax with those numbers

Does $4k drive off make sense?

With what payment?
Is the Drive-off the same as Due at Signing, or does it include the rebates?

$405/ month with $4k drive off. It sounded good to me so I did it yesterday. Dublin Chevrolet

Congrats on the new Bolt!

Skywalker00

kyfdx said:

kyfdx said:

kyfdx said:

And yes it includes rebates

$485/mo+tax with those numbers

Does $4k drive off make sense?

With what payment? Is the Drive-off the same as Due at Signing, or does it include the rebates?

$405/ month with $4k drive off. It sounded good to me so I did it yesterday. Dublin Chevrolet

Congrats on the new Bolt!

And yes it included rebates

simondshl

(This is my first post, hoping to get some clarity on this whole leasing thing)

Looking into a 2019 Bolt at a dealer in VA (20151). MSRP $43,945 with an "Internet Price" (*not all rebates may apply) of $37,353. With some basic information (remaining lease amount of about $4,000 owed on 2017 Chevy Malibu Premier), they estimate monthly costs of upper $600s, which seems extraordinarily high given everything else I've read.

I found some calculations to take the MF and Residuals and such to come to a final cost, so I guess the details I'm interested in are:

36mo/12,000 miles
36mo/15,000 miles

39mo/12,000 miles
39mo/15,000 miles

Also, how does the Tax rebate play into leasing? Anecdotal evidence I've read suggests MSRP - ($7500 + other incentives); other things suggest maybe a portion of it or other incentives in lieu of.

Thanks for the help!

Michaell

simondshl said:

(This is my first post, hoping to get some clarity on this whole leasing thing)

Looking into a 2019 Bolt at a dealer in VA (20151). MSRP $43,945 with an "Internet Price" (*not all rebates may apply) of $37,353. With some basic information (remaining lease amount of about $4,000 owed on 2017 Chevy Malibu Premier), they estimate monthly costs of upper $600s, which seems extraordinarily high given everything else I've read.

I found some calculations to take the MF and Residuals and such to come to a final cost, so I guess the details I'm interested in are:

36mo/12,000 miles
36mo/15,000 miles

39mo/12,000 miles
39mo/15,000 miles

Also, how does the Tax rebate play into leasing? Anecdotal evidence I've read suggests MSRP - ($7500 + other incentives); other things suggest maybe a portion of it or other incentives in lieu of.

Thanks for the help!

A couple of points to note:

1. The $4000 of remaining payments on your Malibu will add $100+ to your new monthly lease payment. My advice would be to wait until that lease matures, then shop for your next vehicle
2. VA taxes the entire selling price, even on a lease. This will also increase your lease payment
3. When you lease, you do not get the $7500 tax incentive; the leasing bank does. You get some of that in the form of both incentives and a higher residual value.

Is this an LT or Premier trim level?

simondshl

Michaell said:

(This is my first post, hoping to get some clarity on this whole leasing thing) Looking into a 2019 Bolt at a dealer in VA (20151). MSRP $43,945 with an "Internet Price" (*not all rebates may apply) of $37,353. With some basic information (remaining lease amount of about $4,000 owed on 2017 Chevy Malibu Premier), they estimate monthly costs of upper $600s, which seems extraordinarily high given everything else I've read. I found some calculations to take the MF and Residuals and such to come to a final cost, so I guess the details I'm interested in are: 36mo/12,000 miles 36mo/15,000 miles 39mo/12,000 miles 39mo/15,000 miles Also, how does the Tax rebate play into leasing? Anecdotal evidence I've read suggests MSRP - ($7500 + other incentives); other things suggest maybe a portion of it or other incentives in lieu of. Thanks for the help!

A couple of points to note: 1. The $4000 of remaining payments on your Malibu will add $100+ to your new monthly lease payment. My advice would be to wait until that lease matures, then shop for your next vehicle 2. VA taxes the entire selling price, even on a lease. This will also increase your lease payment 3. When you lease, you do not get the $7500 tax incentive; the leasing bank does. You get some of that in the form of both incentives and a higher residual value. Is this an LT or Premier trim level?

Thank you for responding!

Was just at the dealer. Looking at Premier. MSRP was about 43650 and sale price was 42950 (around that). Final lease price would have been 45-something with taxes and tags. This is in VA.

They were offering to pay off (not roll in) my current lease. Ran the numbers. They mentioned 3.75 or so as the basis of MF (credit tier came back A1/A+). They marked the residual at around 24500. For 39 months, the cost would be  675/mo.

Dealership talked on the phone with GM Financial and were told there is no tax credit that they can claim since they're a business, which sounds like BS given everything else I've read. It wasn't that they aren't passing anything along or reducing payments or upping residuals, but that they are unaware and have no knowledge of any 7500 tax credit except for the consumer.

Since the consumer doesn't actually own the vehicle, it's my understand we don't get the credit. So, I'm still confused.

Thanks.

kyfdx

simondshl said:

Michaell said:

(This is my first post, hoping to get some clarity on this whole leasing thing)

Looking into a 2019 Bolt at a dealer in VA (20151). MSRP $43,945 with an "Internet Price" (*not all rebates may apply) of $37,353. With some basic information (remaining lease amount of about $4,000 owed on 2017 Chevy Malibu Premier), they estimate monthly costs of upper $600s, which seems extraordinarily high given everything else I've read.

I found some calculations to take the MF and Residuals and such to come to a final cost, so I guess the details I'm interested in are:

36mo/12,000 miles
36mo/15,000 miles

39mo/12,000 miles
39mo/15,000 miles

Also, how does the Tax rebate play into leasing? Anecdotal evidence I've read suggests MSRP - ($7500 + other incentives); other things suggest maybe a portion of it or other incentives in lieu of.

Thanks for the help!

A couple of points to note:

1. The $4000 of remaining payments on your Malibu will add $100+ to your new monthly lease payment. My advice would be to wait until that lease matures, then shop for your next vehicle
2. VA taxes the entire selling price, even on a lease. This will also increase your lease payment
3. When you lease, you do not get the $7500 tax incentive; the leasing bank does. You get some of that in the form of both incentives and a higher residual value.

Is this an LT or Premier trim level?

Thank you for responding!

Was just at the dealer. Looking at Premier. MSRP was about 43650 and sale price was 42950 (around that). Final lease price would have been 45-something with taxes and tags. This is in VA.

They were offering to pay off (not roll in) my current lease. Ran the numbers. They mentioned 3.75 or so as the basis of MF (credit tier came back A1/A+). They marked the residual at around 24500. For 39 months, the cost would be  675/mo.

Dealership talked on the phone with GM Financial and were told there is no tax credit that they can claim since they're a business, which sounds like BS given everything else I've read. It wasn't that they aren't passing anything along or reducing payments or upping residuals, but that they are unaware and have no knowledge of any 7500 tax credit except for the consumer.

Since the consumer doesn't actually own the vehicle, it's my understand we don't get the credit. So, I'm still confused.

Thanks.

You don't get the tax credit.
But, there is a $3750 customer rebate for leasing.

If you purchase, you get the tax credit from the Federal government.

Either way, as soon as the first number of the payment starts with a "6", you should look for another dealer, or a different vehicle.

yqin

What is the MF and residual for a Bolt Premier 36/12? Zip 95014. Any incentives? thanks

Releasemeplease

Hello,

what would the numbers look like for:

Premier
36m/12k & 36m/15k
20175

thank you

Michaell

yqin said:

What is the MF and residual for a Bolt Premier 36/12? Zip 95014. Any incentives? thanks

.00156 and 54%
$3750 customer incentive

Michaell

Releasemeplease said:

Hello,

what would the numbers look like for:

Premier
36m/12k & 36m/15k
20175

thank you

36/15
.00156 and 52%
No lease incentives

EngravEER

First post on the forum :-) Could you please provide info on "the numbers" and any possible lease incentives for...

Chevy Bolt Premier
36 months @ 12k miles / 36 months @ 15k miles
My residential zipcode - 25405 (Martinsburg, WV)
Dealer zipcode - 21788 (Thurmont, MD)

2016 Kia Soul EV lease expires in June (approx. $1,000 still owed which INCLUDES the $400.00 Disposition Fee), and debating on pulling the trigger (either lease or straight purchase) on a Bolt before the March 31st deadline for the full $7,500 Federal Tax Credit.

Thanks in advance for your time and response!

Michaell

EngravEER said:

First post on the forum :-) Could you please provide info on "the numbers" and any possible lease incentives for...

Chevy Bolt Premier
36 months @ 12k miles / 36 months @ 15k miles
My residential zipcode - 25405 (Martinsburg, WV)
Dealer zipcode - 21788 (Thurmont, MD)

2016 Kia Soul EV lease expires in June (approx. $1,000 still owed which INCLUDES the $400.00 Disposition Fee), and debating on pulling the trigger (either lease or straight purchase) on a Bolt before the March 31st deadline for the full $7,500 Federal Tax Credit.

Thanks in advance for your time and response!

36/15
.00156 and 52%
$3750 customer incentive

idealust

Residuals, Money Factor, and Incentives for:
2019 Chevy Bolt LT and Premier
36 month/12k miles

Arizona zip codes 85711 and 85014

Thanks in advance!

Michaell

idealust said:

Residuals, Money Factor, and Incentives for:
2019 Chevy Bolt LT and Premier
36 month/12k miles

Arizona zip codes 85711 and 85014

Thanks in advance!

LT - .00180 and 56%
Prem - .00156 and 54%
No lease incentives

sfromwa

Hi, can I get numbers for the 2019 LT, 36/12K, zip code 98052. Thanks in advance.

Michaell

sfromwa said:

Hi, can I get numbers for the 2019 LT, 36/12K, zip code 98052. Thanks in advance.

.00180 and 56%
No lease incentives

evilaxe

Received this lease offer for 36/10k, zip code 95828 (Sacramento, CA). Note tax is off as they assumed Alameda county.

What is the base MF, and residual? Any hidden costs?

2019 Bolt EV LT --- MSRP $38,245.00

Based on 10,000 miles per year

$33,445.00 your pricing
+ 650.00 lessor acquisition fee
34,095.00 gross cap cost
4,250.00 factory cap cost reduction (includes $500 for current leased vehicle)
- 3,995.00 cash down payment
$25,850.00 net cap cost

36 months @ $198.28 + $18.34 sales tax = $216.62 including tax (Alameda County)

Due on Delivery

$ 216.62 1st Payment
8,245.00 cap reduction
770.52 sales tax on cap reduction
464.00 license & tire fees
.00 security deposit
+ 85.00 doc fee
9,781.14 total
- 4,250.00 factory cap cost reduction
$5,531.14 drive off due on delivery

Michaell

evilaxe said:

Received this lease offer for 36/10k, zip code 95828 (Sacramento, CA). Note tax is off as they assumed Alameda county.

What is the base MF, and residual? Any hidden costs?

2019 Bolt EV LT --- MSRP $38,245.00

Based on 10,000 miles per year

$33,445.00 your pricing
+ 650.00 lessor acquisition fee
34,095.00 gross cap cost
4,250.00 factory cap cost reduction (includes $500 for current leased vehicle)
- 3,995.00 cash down payment
$25,850.00 net cap cost

36 months @ $198.28 + $18.34 sales tax = $216.62 including tax (Alameda County)

Due on Delivery

$ 216.62 1st Payment
8,245.00 cap reduction
770.52 sales tax on cap reduction
464.00 license & tire fees
.00 security deposit
+ 85.00 doc fee
9,781.14 total
- 4,250.00 factory cap cost reduction
$5,531.14 drive off due on delivery

I wouldn't put so much up front on a lease - the whole idea is that it's "pay as you go. In CA, we recommend just the first pament and the DMV costs.

.00180 and 57%
$3750 customer incentive

Interesting that your deal sheet shows $4250.

mboh2017

Hi, can I get numbers for the 2019 LT and Prem, 36/12K, zip code 44224. Thanks in advance.

kyfdx

mboh2017 said:

Hi, can I get numbers for the 2019 LT and Prem, 36/12K, zip code 44224. Thanks in advance.

LT: .00180 MF and 56% residual
Prem: .00156 MF and 54% residual

evilaxe

Michaell said:

evilaxe said:

Received this lease offer for 36/10k, zip code 95828 (Sacramento, CA). Note tax is off as they assumed Alameda county.

What is the base MF, and residual? Any hidden costs?

2019 Bolt EV LT --- MSRP $38,245.00

Based on 10,000 miles per year

$33,445.00 your pricing
+ 650.00 lessor acquisition fee
34,095.00 gross cap cost
4,250.00 factory cap cost reduction (includes $500 for current leased vehicle)
- 3,995.00 cash down payment
$25,850.00 net cap cost

36 months @ $198.28 + $18.34 sales tax = $216.62 including tax (Alameda County)

Due on Delivery

$ 216.62 1st Payment
8,245.00 cap reduction
770.52 sales tax on cap reduction
464.00 license & tire fees
.00 security deposit
+ 85.00 doc fee
9,781.14 total
- 4,250.00 factory cap cost reduction
$5,531.14 drive off due on delivery

I wouldn't put so much up front on a lease - the whole idea is that it's "pay as you go. In CA, we recommend just the first pament and the DMV costs.

.00180 and 57%
$3750 customer incentive

Interesting that your deal sheet shows $4250.

Thank you, the extra $500 comes from the fact I currently lease a Leaf.

Michaell

evilaxe said:

Michaell said:

evilaxe said:

Received this lease offer for 36/10k, zip code 95828 (Sacramento, CA). Note tax is off as they assumed Alameda county.

What is the base MF, and residual? Any hidden costs?

2019 Bolt EV LT --- MSRP $38,245.00

Based on 10,000 miles per year

$33,445.00 your pricing
+ 650.00 lessor acquisition fee
34,095.00 gross cap cost
4,250.00 factory cap cost reduction (includes $500 for current leased vehicle)
- 3,995.00 cash down payment
$25,850.00 net cap cost

36 months @ $198.28 + $18.34 sales tax = $216.62 including tax (Alameda County)

Due on Delivery

$ 216.62 1st Payment
8,245.00 cap reduction
770.52 sales tax on cap reduction
464.00 license & tire fees
.00 security deposit
+ 85.00 doc fee
9,781.14 total
- 4,250.00 factory cap cost reduction
$5,531.14 drive off due on delivery

I wouldn't put so much up front on a lease - the whole idea is that it's "pay as you go. In CA, we recommend just the first pament and the DMV costs.

.00180 and 57%
$3750 customer incentive

Interesting that your deal sheet shows $4250.

Thank you, the extra $500 comes from the fact I currently lease a Leaf.

Ah, thanks for explaining.

mboh2017

kyfdx said:

mboh2017 said:

Hi, can I get numbers for the 2019 LT and Prem, 36/12K, zip code 44224. Thanks in advance.

LT: .00180 MF and 56% residual
Prem: .00156 MF and 54% residual

Thank you. No customer incentive for me?

Michaell

mboh2017 said:

kyfdx said:

mboh2017 said:

Hi, can I get numbers for the 2019 LT and Prem, 36/12K, zip code 44224. Thanks in advance.

LT: .00180 MF and 56% residual
Prem: .00156 MF and 54% residual

Thank you. No customer incentive for me?

Not in your region.

cmdc

Residuals, Money Factor, and Incentives for:
2019 Chevy Bolt LT
36 month/12k miles

Zip code: 20854

Thanks.

Michaell

cmdc said:

Residuals, Money Factor, and Incentives for:
2019 Chevy Bolt LT
36 month/12k miles

Zip code: 20854

Thanks.

.00180 and 56%
$3750 customer incentive

jebj

Hello,

I'm shopping a bolt premier before the $7500 rebate starts to phase out next week. The car I'm looking at has MSRP of $43,735 (infotainment package, driver confidence II package, DC fast charging). The monthly lease price (10k miles/yr) they are offering me is $412.40 (All fee, taxes, etc. rolled into the lease, 36 payments at that amount, nothing else). I don't have all the numbers that resulted in this offer, but the residual value being used is $24,928.95 (57%). This seems like a reasonable lease offer for this vehicle.

Extrapolating some numbers from my last lease (Chevy volt) to estimate expected taxes and fees for this lease (~$2825), and factoring in a $7500 rebate for the tax credit, I get an adjusted cap cost of $39,060. Based on those numbers, I get a rent for this 3 year lease about $715: (412.40 * 36) - (39,060 - 24,929) = $715.40 - assuming I did the math correctly. Since I'm estimating the fees and taxes, probably plus or minus about $250 on that calculation. For reference, the rent on my Volt lease was $654 for 3 years, so this seems like a reasonable result.

So far, so good.

However, the dealership is offering this car for sale for $35,000. If I pay that price plus taxes and some fees (say ~$38,000) and get a $7500 tax credit, after 3 years (assuming I don't exceed 10k miles/yr - which I definitely will not for this vehicle), will I then have spent around $30,500 and have a car that is worth ~$25,000 (the "residual value")? I'm ignoring the other costs associated with having the car, since presumably they will be the same over the 3 years regardless of whether the car is leased or owned outright.

In other words, If I lease, I am paying just under $15k over 3 years (~$5k/yr), but if I buy the car (and keep it in reasonably good shape), would it's resale value be equal (or close to) that "residual value"? About how much could I expect on a trade-in? If the trade in value were that $25k, I would really be spending only around $5.5k over 3 years (< $2k/yr), which seems like a much better deal than leasing. Even if the trade-in value would be closer to $20k, it would still be a much better deal (spending a little over $10k in 3 years instead of $15k). With the caveat that it's impossible to know what the actual value of this car will be in 3 years, but surely a pretty confident estimate plus or minus $3k assuming the car is in good shape should be possible.

Assuming I could purchase the car with a 0% interest loan, would that truly be a much better deal? What really would be a good estimate of the trade-in value of this car in 3 years?

Thanks.

kyfdx

jebj said:

Hello,

I'm shopping a bolt premier before the $7500 rebate starts to phase out next week. The car I'm looking at has MSRP of $43,735 (infotainment package, driver confidence II package, DC fast charging). The monthly lease price (10k miles/yr) they are offering me is $412.40 (All fee, taxes, etc. rolled into the lease, 36 payments at that amount, nothing else). I don't have all the numbers that resulted in this offer, but the residual value being used is $24,928.95 (57%). This seems like a reasonable lease offer for this vehicle.

Extrapolating some numbers from my last lease (Chevy volt) to estimate expected taxes and fees for this lease (~$2825), and factoring in a $7500 rebate for the tax credit, I get an adjusted cap cost of $39,060. Based on those numbers, I get a rent for this 3 year lease about $715: (412.40 * 36) - (39,060 - 24,929) = $715.40 - assuming I did the math correctly. Since I'm estimating the fees and taxes, probably plus or minus about $250 on that calculation. For reference, the rent on my Volt lease was $654 for 3 years, so this seems like a reasonable result.

So far, so good.

However, the dealership is offering this car for sale for $35,000. If I pay that price plus taxes and some fees (say ~$38,000) and get a $7500 tax credit, after 3 years (assuming I don't exceed 10k miles/yr - which I definitely will not for this vehicle), will I then have spent around $30,500 and have a car that is worth ~$25,000 (the "residual value")? I'm ignoring the other costs associated with having the car, since presumably they will be the same over the 3 years regardless of whether the car is leased or owned outright.

In other words, If I lease, I am paying just under $15k over 3 years (~$5k/yr), but if I buy the car (and keep it in reasonably good shape), would it's resale value be equal (or close to) that "residual value"? About how much could I expect on a trade-in? If the trade in value were that $25k, I would really be spending only around $5.5k over 3 years (< $2k/yr), which seems like a much better deal than leasing. Even if the trade-in value would be closer to $20k, it would still be a much better deal (spending a little over $10k in 3 years instead of $15k). With the caveat that it's impossible to know what the actual value of this car will be in 3 years, but surely a pretty confident estimate plus or minus $3k assuming the car is in good shape should be possible.

Assuming I could purchase the car with a 0% interest loan, would that truly be a much better deal? What really would be a good estimate of the trade-in value of this car in 3 years?

Thanks.

Are you still in NY?

You've made a lot of assumptions, based on math, but not on the actual program. Move those numbers a little bit, here or there, and it changes everything.

As a lessee, you don't actually get the Federal Tax credit (it's not a rebate), but the bank gets it, as owner of the vehicle. In this case, GM is offering $3750 of that amount as a customer rebate. Is the dealer's "sale price" the price for your lease deal? If so, it's likely they've already deducted the $3750 rebate, so you wouldn't be looking at apples to apples vs. a purchase (where you get the tax credit).
Also, doesn't NYS also have a "rebate" that is applied at the dealership on EV vehicles?

Bolt Premier
36/10
.00156 MF and 55% residual
The LT has a 57% residual, so make sure you and the dealership are on the same page (and same car).

I would just ask them for a purchase quote, as well as a lease quote, so you don't have to guess. Just keep in mind that you won't get the $7500 back until you file your taxes, next year.

jebj

Yes, this is NY state. I've asked for a full lease quote, so I can post numbers if they send that to me in advance, but in essence it's only the bottom line that really counts in the end - For the lease, I would pay around $15k total for 3 years of ownership, assuming I return it after 3 years. For purchase, I would pay a little over $30k (after taxes and fees on the vehicle and the money I will get back for the tax credit) so if I got about $20k on a trade-in after 3 years, I would have payed only around $10k total for 3 years of ownership (a much better deal) - but what would I really be likely to get on a trade-in? If I have a decent estimate of what I can reasonably expect to get on a trade-in, I can balance the risk of that estimate being too high against the known fixed cost of the lease.

As for the numbers, I have a feeling that the dealership will figure out the bottom line and make the numbers work out the way they want. The "agreed upon value of the vehicle" used for the lease is clearly not going to be the same as the price for a purchase, so that number and any rebate numbers can be massaged. The dealership does get a state rebate (I think $2000 from NYSERDA), which they definitely figure in to their sales price. For the lease, the dealership may get the NY rebate, but the manufacturer (Chevy/GM) seems to get the $7500 tax credit. So, that should be figured into the lease price somehow, but I guess it could either be figured in as a rebate or as a lowering of the "agreed upon value of the vehicle" or some of each. If they give only $3750 rebate but no lowering of the value below MSRP, they are taking advantage. Hopefully I'll have the numbers to show.

In my previous lease, it looks like the "agreed upon value" was exactly equal to the MSRP, and the rebates ("and non-cash credits") were listed in total as $7860 (not broken down), which I assumed was the $7500 tax credit plus some other small incentives. I guess it doesn't matter too much. Presumably the NY-based dealer and manufacture together are getting a total kickback of about $9500. If they pass on $7500 or $8000 to me, that seems reasonable. If they pass on just $4000 of that, then it seems like I'm getting cheated.

I've read in other places about what constitutes a decent lease amount in terms of $per month / $10,000 of msrp (like under $125 is good), but I'm not sure that holds true for cars that have a big tax credit.

-J

kyfdx

jebj said:

Yes, this is NY state. I've asked for a full lease quote, so I can post numbers if they send that to me in advance, but in essence it's only the bottom line that really counts in the end - For the lease, I would pay around $15k total for 3 years of ownership, assuming I return it after 3 years. For purchase, I would pay a little over $30k (after taxes and fees on the vehicle and the money I will get back for the tax credit) so if I got about $20k on a trade-in after 3 years, I would have payed only around $10k total for 3 years of ownership (a much better deal) - but what would I really be likely to get on a trade-in? If I have a decent estimate of what I can reasonably expect to get on a trade-in, I can balance the risk of that estimate being too high against the known fixed cost of the lease.

As for the numbers, I have a feeling that the dealership will figure out the bottom line and make the numbers work out the way they want. The "agreed upon value of the vehicle" used for the lease is clearly not going to be the same as the price for a purchase, so that number and any rebate numbers can be massaged. The dealership does get a state rebate (I think $2000 from NYSERDA), which they definitely figure in to their sales price. For the lease, the dealership may get the NY rebate, but the manufacturer (Chevy/GM) seems to get the $7500 tax credit. So, that should be figured into the lease price somehow, but I guess it could either be figured in as a rebate or as a lowering of the "agreed upon value of the vehicle" or some of each. If they give only $3750 rebate but no lowering of the value below MSRP, they are taking advantage. Hopefully I'll have the numbers to show.

In my previous lease, it looks like the "agreed upon value" was exactly equal to the MSRP, and the rebates ("and non-cash credits") were listed in total as $7860 (not broken down), which I assumed was the $7500 tax credit plus some other small incentives. I guess it doesn't matter too much. Presumably the NY-based dealer and manufacture together are getting a total kickback of about $9500. If they pass on $7500 or $8000 to me, that seems reasonable. If they pass on just $4000 of that, then it seems like I'm getting cheated.

I've read in other places about what constitutes a decent lease amount in terms of $per month / $10,000 of msrp (like under $125 is good), but I'm not sure that holds true for cars that have a big tax credit.

-J

You have to balance rebates against the residual provided.
For instance, a Nissan Leaf might come with $9000 of rebates vs. the $3750 of the Bolt, but the Leaf's residual is around 40%.
You are correct that the total cost is what matters. But, if you don't have the exact numbers, you won't know if you can do better.

Trade-in value is the biggest risk, especially with an electric vehicle. When you lease, your costs are fixed. So, you really won't know if you are better off buying, until it's all over.

A payment that is 1% of MSRP is generally very good, but as you note, big rebates/discounts can skew that somewhat.

Let us know when you get the actual numbers. Good luck!

jebj

Here is the info from the quote worksheet that the dealer forwarded (If I can successfully attach the image). It doesn't have everything, and some items are combined, so it's not completely clear. I have to say that I don't understand where all the numbers are coming from (aftermarket?, why total cap reduction is what it is). Somewhere in there (probably in upfront fees) is supposedly included the $301 that I will have to pay for one month of my last lease (returning it 5 months early - they will allow a 4 month early return with no penalty). I can get (almost) to the $420.79/month (selling price - residual + 100 for license and registration) / 36 gives me 420.00. Any comments on this appreciated.

jebj

Note: the "amount due at start" is the same as the "rebate". I'm not paying that in a check (I guess the "rebate" becomes "working cash" that they use for the "amount due at start" . That money is basically the $7500 tax credit plus some extra. It looks like the way they have finagled the numbers, the the actual rebate from GM ($3750 mentioned above) seems to be essentially the difference between MSRP and "Selling Price" (which is $3786). I'm still a little confused by this quote. Any clarification appreciated.

kyfdx

jebj said:

Note: the "amount due at start" is the same as the "rebate". I'm not paying that in a check (I guess the "rebate" becomes "working cash" that they use for the "amount due at start" . That money is basically the $7500 tax credit plus some extra. It looks like the way they have finagled the numbers, the the actual rebate from GM ($3750 mentioned above) seems to be essentially the difference between MSRP and "Selling Price" (which is $3786). I'm still a little confused by this quote. Any clarification appreciated.

There is a lot that is confusing about this quote, but we can probably clear some of it up.

1) The difference between MSRP and selling price is not the $3750 rebate, even though the amounts are close. The difference is simply a discount from the dealer.

2) Adjusted CAP cost: Add up all of the amount listed, including first payment, then deduct the rebate, and that results in the listed Adjusted CAP cost, exactly (as it should). As this is written, there is ZERO due from you at signing. Also, the payment amount is correct.

3) The $7955.96 rebate is not the tax credit. It is a rebate. It's obvious that whatever lease program they are using, the rebates are different from the $3750 number that we have

4) The finance rate is expressed as an APR, instead of a money factor, but it is equivalent to the .00156 MF we quoted.

5) That is the total tax number and is added to the Gross CAP, as NY collects that amount upfront

6) Upfront fees are likely the acquisition and dealer fee


Now, to the questions I would have:

a) Is this a GM Finance lease? And, if it is, why is the residual 2% higher than we expected? (the APR matches, though).

b) Please itemize the $7955 in rebates. Where they come from, and what they are for?

c) $1507.45 aftermarkets? You need an itemization. This could be where you can save some money, if they've added garbage to the price. (maintenance contracts, tire/wheel insurance, etc).

In summary:

The biggest issue is the aftermarkets. I don't know why some of the amounts are what they are, but almost all of them are in your favor (higher residual and bigger rebates).

If you can knock down that $1507 number, every $100 lower saves you $2.94/mo on the payment. Knock off the whole amount and your payment drops by $44/mo.

jebj

Thanks!!! Super helpful. I'll see if I can get some explanations. Oh, and I understand that the nearly $8k in rebates are not "the tax credit", I just figured that since GM is getting the $7500 tax credit, that allows them to easily offer up to $7500 in rebates (calling them whatever they want) with no pain.

jebj

This is just a worksheet. I get the feeling that they just put in the wrong number for the residual % (you said it was 57% for an LT, and they probably weren't paying attention). I also have a quote for an LT, and that one has a different APR in it (which I presume is also just a data entry issue).

My last question though, is how is the monthly fee calculated? Over 36 months, that is $15,148.44. Using an online loan calculator, I can reverse-engineer that at 3.74 APR, the principal is $14,308.47 ($839.98 in interest). I think that principal amount should be the MSRP - Residual + additional fees/costs (aftermarket, taxes, lic/reg, upfront fees) - Rebate. However, when I make that calculation, I get $15,006.92 (which is not close - though much closer to total I will end up paying including interest). What am I doing wrong?

Unless the interest is somehow included in the aftermarket number - which doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, my old lease agreement doesn't seem to list an APR or MF anywhere on it. Instead, there is an item called "rent", which actually looks a lot like what the interest would be over the course of the lease (at 4.08% in the case of that lease).

Can you help me figure out how the final number $420.79 was arrived at?

jebj

Or shouldn't the depreciation be the selling price - residual, in which case the principle should be selling price - residual + additional fees - rebate ($39,949 - $24,928.95 + $1,507.45 + $1,751.88 + $100 + $797.50 - $7,955.96), which is only $11,220.92.

Am I somehow using APR wrong?

kyfdx

jebj said:

This is just a worksheet. I get the feeling that they just put in the wrong number for the residual % (you said it was 57% for an LT, and they probably weren't paying attention). I also have a quote for an LT, and that one has a different APR in it (which I presume is also just a data entry issue).

My last question though, is how is the monthly fee calculated? Over 36 months, that is $15,148.44. Using an online loan calculator, I can reverse-engineer that at 3.74 APR, the principal is $14,308.47 ($839.98 in interest). I think that principal amount should be the MSRP - Residual + additional fees/costs (aftermarket, taxes, lic/reg, upfront fees) - Rebate. However, when I make that calculation, I get $15,006.92 (which is not close - though much closer to total I will end up paying including interest). What am I doing wrong?

Unless the interest is somehow included in the aftermarket number - which doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, my old lease agreement doesn't seem to list an APR or MF anywhere on it. Instead, there is an item called "rent", which actually looks a lot like what the interest would be over the course of the lease (at 4.08% in the case of that lease).

Can you help me figure out how the final number $420.79 was arrived at?

The LT does have a slightly higher MF/APR

If you want to do a lease calculation by hand, first convert the APR to a money factor. (.00156 in the case of the Premier trim).

Then, use this formula:
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/12602/general/x/how-to-calculate-monthly-lease-payments

The money factor is applied to an average of the adjusted CAP cost and residual. That might not be exactly clear as you apply the formula, but that may help you when calculating "interest" from the APR.

The "Rent Charge" is the finance portion of the lease. Usually expressed as a total for the lease term. But, when using the formula, you are calculating a monthly rent charge.

jebj

I guess I really didn't understand the finance fee on a lease. Instead of paying interest on the total amount of the lease as if it were a loan, it seems I am paying interest on a much (much) larger sum: the average of the net cap cost and the residual. And, unlike a loan, you're not paying a smaller and smaller amount in interest each month as the principal gets smaller, instead, you are paying that same finance fee every month. I guess that explains the numbers and how the leasing company makes their money. Though I'm not sure it explains how my last lease was so reasonably affordable, in which I seemed to be paying interest (at around 4%) on just the amount of the lease - or which according to the formulas would have been equivalent to an MF of around 0.0004 (less than 1% APR). In retrospect, that was a good deal :-)

tifighter

Are there any 24 mo numbers on the Bolt? Or is everything 36?

kyfdx

jebj said:

I guess I really didn't understand the finance fee on a lease. Instead of paying interest on the total amount of the lease as if it were a loan, it seems I am paying interest on a much (much) larger sum: the average of the net cap cost and the residual. And, unlike a loan, you're not paying a smaller and smaller amount in interest each month as the principal gets smaller, instead, you are paying that same finance fee every month. I guess that explains the numbers and how the leasing company makes their money. Though I'm not sure it explains how my last lease was so reasonably affordable, in which I seemed to be paying interest (at around 4%) on just the amount of the lease - or which according to the formulas would have been equivalent to an MF of around 0.0004 (less than 1% APR). In retrospect, that was a good deal :-)

If you want to compare it to a loan?

You are borrowing the CAP cost. (because, that is what the bank is paying the dealer)
And, at lease end, you owe the residual (which you pay off by turning the car in)

So, on a loan, you are paying more interest initially, then less as the balance reduces.
That would be a complicated transaction on a lease, so instead, you pay finance charges on an average of the CAP cost and the residual. It's not exactly the same as if it were interest (which it isn't), but it's pretty close.

And, yes, that's how the leasing bank makes their money. On finance charges, just like any other transaction. But, it's not unfair, or any different from a loan, in the basic amount of finance charges.

And, yes, you probably got a great deal on your last lease. The manufacturer can subsidize a lease with upfront rebates, or with lower finance charges. What matters in the end, is the payment, assuming you know how they came up with it.

kyfdx

tifighter said:

Are there any 24 mo numbers on the Bolt? Or is everything 36?

36 or 39 months. No shorter terms.

tifighter

kyfdx said:

tifighter said:

Are there any 24 mo numbers on the Bolt? Or is everything 36?

36 or 39 months. No shorter terms.

Thank you, sir