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LOL. I give you credit larsb, you are a tough dude. I've commented before, it often seems like it's you against the world in here., And FWIW, I usually pull for the underdog.
Maybe we should all meet up and have a beer or 10 at Obama's.
Didn't you hear, the plastic will ooze all kinds of chemicals into your water. Plastic is evil, beat it with a stick. :sick:
"...Old fashioned oats bought in bulk..."
Larsb is right, you ARE a hippie.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That's odd. Sounds like SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) but the treatment for that is to sit in front of a bank of florescent lights for an hour each day. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Nah, that's just the "Jipts Method". :P Buy the book.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
He's ex-Marine, gotta respect that.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Geologist Ian Plimer takes a contrary view, arguing that man-made climate change is a con trick perpetuated by environmentalists
By Jonathan Manthorpe, Vancouver SunJuly 29, 2009
Ian Plimer has outraged the ayatollahs of purist environmentalism, the Torquemadas of the doctrine of global warming, and he seems to relish the damnation they heap on him.
Plimer is a geologist, professor of mining geology at Adelaide University, and he may well be Australia's best-known and most notorious academic.
Plimer, you see, is an unremitting critic of "anthropogenic global warming" -- man-made climate change to you and me -- and the current environmental orthodoxy that if we change our polluting ways, global warming can be reversed.
It is, of course, not new to have a highly qualified scientist saying that global warming is an entirely natural phenomenon with many precedents in history. Many have made the argument, too, that it is rubbish to contend human behaviour is causing the current climate change. And it has often been well argued that it is totally ridiculous to suppose that changes in human behaviour -- cleaning up our act through expensive slight-of-hand taxation tricks -- can reverse the trend.
But most of these scientific and academic voices have fallen silent in the face of environmental Jacobinism. Purging humankind of its supposed sins of environmental degradation has become a religion with a fanatical and often intolerant priesthood, especially among the First World urban elites.
Plimer presents the proposition that anthropogenic global warming is little more than a con trick on the public perpetrated by fundamentalist environmentalists and callously adopted by politicians and government officials who love nothing more than an issue that causes public anxiety.
While environmentalists for the most part draw their conclusions based on climate information gathered in the last few hundred years, geologists, Plimer says, have a time frame stretching back many thousands of millions of years.
The dynamic and changing character of the Earth's climate has always been known by geologists. These changes are cyclical and random, he says. They are not caused or significantly affected by human behaviour.
Polar ice, for example, has been present on the Earth for less than 20 per cent of geological time, Plimer writes. Plus, animal extinctions are an entirely normal part of the Earth's evolution.
There is no problem with global warming, Plimer says repeatedly. He points out that for humans periods of global warming have been times of abundance when civilization made leaps forward. Ice ages, in contrast, have been times when human development slowed or even declined.
So global warming, says Plimer, is something humans should welcome and embrace as a harbinger of good times to come.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Global+warming+religion+First+World+urban+elite- s/1835847/story.html
Uhhh, that is my competitors knock off book oldfarmer. My book is titled, "The Jipst (J-I-P-S-T) Method of New Car Buying". :surprise:
In reality though, it is my theory of the most effective and economical way in purchasing a new car, spelled out in many of the discussions in Smart Shoppers.
But yeah.. buy the book. I have a wife (Octomom) and 12 kids to feed.
By Joe Carroll
Bloomberg News
Posted: 07/29/2009 05:25:15 PM PDT
Updated: 07/29/2009 08:12:03 PM PDT
But as it turns out, Chevron might have had an economic and legal 12 gauge shot gun pointed to the head by "environmentalists" so to speak.
..."Earlier this month, Chevron was ordered by a judge to halt replacement of equipment that dates as far back as the 1930s after environmental groups alleged the project was aimed at refining heavy Canadian oil. "...
I guess "foreign" oil from the hostile and volitile middle east was what was wanted all along ? It of course takes less energy to come from next door than from around the world! Natually the equipment, some dating back to the 1930's is much more energy efficient than the new construction they were planning ? Great job ! :lemon:
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To discuss this don't you need to understand GW? You therefore need to know if GW is occurring, how much change is occurring, and whether it is natural or man-made.
Otherwise all we can discuss is how much your garage warms up if you let your car idle in it.
I heard a evolutionary scientist on one of those (pbs) shows say that 99.5% of all species that ever lived on the earth are.... extinct !!! Naturally cars were not present for most of that percentage.....
We are surrounded by short and long-term changes of the Earth, Sun and orbit itself. The Earth's protective magnetive field is not constant, and the polarity of the poles can change. So given all that I don't see how the climate could ever be expected to stay the same.
I fully expect continents to move, shorelines to change, and variations in the amount of energy we receive due to these various macro-natural systems.
The power of man to change nature is miniscule, compared to the energy of nature. Even in looking at CO2 produced, I believe the CO2 cycle shows that nature release about 30X the amount of CO2 that mankind does in all forms of activity. And CO2 is one of the weakest greenhouse gases, of many released in nature.
So does burning a little oil or gasoline in cars heat the Earth? sure - just like a candle in the middle of a football field on a Nov. day.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Every "thinking person" knows and realizes OR can be educated to understand that climate change across a period of time is completely normal.
as for the unusually fast RATE of warming, and the effects on the arctic ice, all the other harbingers of "climate change" which have been recently documented, however:
There is nothing to say, and no proof to be had, that can definitively say "man and his activities have NOT had any impact."
That just CANNOT be factually stated.
Neither can the reverse.
So, we are left with scientific questions and reasonable suggestions. Those suggestions include "CO2 and other greenhouse gases are POSSIBLY affecting the climate in an adverse way."
To ignore or dismiss that POSSIBILITY is the action of a fool.
More study is needed.
In the meantime, there is enough anecdotal evidence to strongly suggest that we should do our best not to burn/waste any more fossil fuels than we reasonably need to.
That involves driving highly polluting cars and other machines with fossil-fuel-burning engines.
Better safe than sorry. Don't be a waster or "resource abuser" in ANY area of your life.
Just as the reverse is true. And when have we spent enough on research? How many conferences in Bali are needed to determine what causes CC. There is always a point of diminishing returns. I think they have gone way past that on CC caused by automobiles. We could have possibly found several cures for diseases we know are killing mankind with the money spent debating & researching the THEORY of Man made GW.
I said that in my post.
It does not change the fact ....just read the last part of my post again.....you seem to have stopped reading right after you got past the part of my post which you quoted...
More study is not going to prove a negative...it is just going to waste time, money, and resources. It's like trying to "prove" that the world won't end next Tuesday. Study that one for a while and get back to me.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Do you see the trend in the world is to use less fossil-fuels?
Are there more or less fossil-fuel burning power-plants each year in the world?
Does the global population continue to grow, and deforestation continue to grow each year?
Face it there are more and more people each year on this Earth, and they all want to live a comfortable "resource-full" lifestyle. All fossil fuels will get used up. Even if the U.S. stops using all fossil fuels and uses solar and wind, the growing population of the world will be too poor to build these technologies and this continually growing population will use fossil fuels.
What you or I or the rest of the U.S. does, has little long-term impact on the fate of the Earf or humanity. Enjoy your resources before someone else uses them.
Russia's Putin inspects crystals in deepest lake
As the article states, the "major problems" are the cost, efficiency and economics of this natural gas recovery and NOT its almost mind warping world wide abundance.
So the key is to come to (technology) patent fastest or first for the process, process and process, process, process.....
I think the continental shelf all over the world has similar deposits. Enough gas for 100s of years. Too expensive to extract as yet.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
During the 8 year Clinton Reign, Clinton approved/caused a billion and a half going to the big three for a clean sheet of what would be a good fuel efficient future engine and all three came up with 2 prototypes each ( independently) of diesel engines !!! Need less to say it occupies a file 13 status at the moment... waiting for final disapproval.
This is not to say gov.orgs do not have irons in various fires, as many government agencies are tasked to keep abreast of this stuff. I think it will take the equivalent of Kennedy realizing the US had been outflanked by the Soviet Union by sending monkeys (an irony here?) to the moon, then MEN FIRST for anything to really get started.
A more recent example was something like 9/11 to happen for them to take seriously that someone had declared war on the US some 30 years earlier.....
People have short memories - shoot, the Brits burned the White House down back in 1814.
Subsidies for stuff is fine and dandy, but at some point the economics are going to require the industry to make it on their own.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/01/us/politics/01brfs-LETTERSONCLI_BRF.html?_r=2&- ref=us
http://www.desmogblog.com/climate-crock-week-whats-anthony-watts-take-2
Interesting articles. The sad part of this is that the deniers are not putting there energy in the right place. It is fine to be skeptical, however, what you don't want to do is deny the obvious observation and growing evidence that man is impacting the climate. The solutions will require some more thought and better science. So I would think it is fair to be skeptical of some of the solutions being proposed.....just don't deny that man is impacting climate or that the 800 million vehicles out there are not making an impact.
With less than 2% of the passenger vehicle fleet being diesel and diesel being required to meet emissions standards that specifically dials out bio diesel..... as in you almost have to be a federal felony tax evader (among other things) to run bio diesel economically
Well, lets see...
Now if that ain't a crock. Why just protect minorities from the tax and spend thieves in DC? How about US poor white guys that are paying all the bills and now they want to raise our utilities by 25% or more. Time for a revolution against this government. Maybe a Honduras style coup would be refreshing. I see the people don't miss Zelaya anymore. Run the whole Congress down to Venezuela to see what they are trying to make the US look like.
Whether cars or cattle are causing climate change is irrelevant. We are not going to give up our cars or hamburgers. If the US Government was serious about cutting GHG they would have limited the sale of gas vehicles and pushed the much more efficient diesel cars. The Government is the problem, not the people. Stealing more from US will not make it all better.
You would think people in this forum, who like cars, would realize that denying the human contribution to climate change would most likely backfire. Denying the evidence just creates a credibility gap. Cars are an easy target to regulate. It is likely that vehicles may be over regulated in the future in part because the deniers are trying to stop any suggestion of AGCC. What these folks should be doing is trying to understand all the human causes of GCC. Transportation and coal get a lot of notice because of the CO2 issue. There are likely many other issues that should be looked at like land use, livestock, dams, crops, wastewater treatment, phosphorus pollution, water vapor emissions, the color of houses & roads..... the list might be very long.
How terrible of them. What next, making up a phony ad campaign about polar bears drowning to get contributions?
Oh wait, the World Wildlife Federation already beat them to it.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
It is not a question of giving up...it is a question of moderation.
"pushed the much more efficient diesel cars"
Diesel is not the cure all. Diesel cars needed to meet emission standards. There was also the problem of a lack of refining capacity for diesel fuel in the past.
You also missed the obvious.... the Prius makes 3.7 tons of CO2 a year while the Jetta diesel makes 6.2 tons of CO2 a year, only marginally better when compared to the 7.3 tons of the 2.5L gas engine. The Ford Fusion makes 4.7 tons of CO2 a year. Hybrids are the way to go.... :P
"...US poor white guys that are paying all the bills..."
Really, you mean the same white guys that ran over the Native Americans or brought black slaves from Africa!!! I should also point out that you probably pay less tax than Tiger Woods, Bill Cosby and many other minorities. Stop your complaining.
I would strongly recommend you take a few night courses at your local college in science and history. And you really should take the history classes at a black college just so that you get a perspective on how the non-whites view things.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Please save your bigoted statements for the political forums. That is really offensive. :mad:
Just for the record, when those things were happening my white ancestors were the slaves of the English empire in Ireland. When they finally were able to escape to America in 1890 the indian wars and slavery were over.
Perhaps you should go back to college and learn how not to judge historical events (however reprehensible) by modern standards.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That is not a true statement. You seem more than willing to accept information from right wing conservative reporters but not mainstream climatologists. The climatologists do not have that significant difference of opinion when it comes to man influencing climate. The majority agree that it is an issue. So in the spirit of moving the discussion forward let us agree not to mention the following people: Gore, Hanson, Pelosi, Inhofe, Palin, & Limbaugh. :shades:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2008/Fig1.gif
I think you are missing the obvious. CO2 is directly related to fuel consumption. You are basing your opinion on totally flawed EPA estimates for both vehicles. While the Jetta TDI does not quite make it to the averages of the Prius, it is much closer than the estimates would have people believe.
So why should Tiger Woods and Bill Cosby pay less for utilities than I do. That was the thrust of the link you posted. It was the lobby group for the NAACP that sent the fake letters to try and protect minorities from this horrible bill. My point was all Americans need protection from this lousy legislation. Hopefully there will be enough people in Congress with common sense to reject the insanity.
Too bad black colleges don't always teach the truth about slavery. It was in fact blacks that sold their enemies into the slave trade. It was Islamic blacks such as Obama's ancestors that were slave traders in Africa. I won't make any excuses for our forefather's having slaves. I just find it amusing you would throw that into the mix. It is called deflecting from the issues.
And how can a climatologist be more informed as to the history of climate than a renowned geologist. That is after all what we are debating. Did we have radical climate changes in the past when man was not a factor. I say we did. Scientists say we did. It was at least 6 degrees warmer in the 1300s than it is now. That is a fact that the "Cult" likes to gloss over. If the scientists were as convinced of pending doom from GHG they would be having their conferences via the Internet. Not exotic vacation spots like Bali. Sadly many of the scientists such as yourself are in the trenches and do not see what a joke it is to those making the real money, like Al Gore. He is laughing all the way to the bank. The Carbon footprint of the world wide concert in 2007 was probably more than all the cars in the USA at that time.
"Final proof that the end of days is nigh. A store in Juneau used the promise of air conditioning to entice customers last week. Possibly a first. The photographer reports it got all the way up to 82 in the Capital City July 29, 2009."
Alaska Ear
But, the shores of Whidbey Island and Camano Island did not look to be suffering from water onslaught from the cracked-off ice monsters falling in to the Pacific from the south Arctic icefields.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The Cash for Clunker renewal legislation is going to face some heated global warming talk next week in the Senate as they consider the legislation the House passed last Friday. Clunkers bill could face tougher road in Senate (thehill.com)
“Congress should try to figure out how the first $1 billion was spent before it throws another $2 billion into the pot,” said Dan Becker of the Safe Climate Campaign, an environmental group. “Did most of the taxpayer subsidy go for efficient, clean vehicles that cut global warming pollution and our oil addiction or did people trade in old clunkers for new gas-guzzlers?”
Seems new car 2009 MY sales figures are anathema to environmental groups and Congress !!!! That is really funny because car dealers complain there are @ least 11 government forms that need to be filled out for the cash to clunkers program!!?? And oh by the way none of the accepting dealers has gotten reimbursed.
All they have to do is google like I did !!?? :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/usa/alaska/wjuneau.htm site says the high is 90* and the AVERAGE is 64* in July.
So 82* in not unheard of, it may not be what is expected every year BUT its been 82* before and has been hotter then 82* before !
So your idea of "Final Proof" is a failure in facts !
You can make numbers do anything you wish and just because some science dude or dudette says something does not make it so ! After all these same science dudes have said for years that the sun is HOT yet the space between the earth and the sun is freezing COLD ! If the closer you get to the sun is hotter then why is the top of mountains cold while Death Vally is HOT !
I say the only "Final Proof" is that there is money in man made global warming while there is very little or no money in the natural occurring evolution of our universe !