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  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    berri said:

    I recall Nissan having a fair amount of transaxle issues some years back, but I'm guessing it was probably more related to Ghosn cost cutting than the CVT concept.

    Not so. Nissan still has plenty of problems with the CVT. Read the Nissan forums and you'll learn that a lot of people are having their transmissions replaced (sometimes more than once) in the newer nissans (to include 2015s).
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    There is a difference between a "common" problem that occurs on a large number of vehicles but a small percentage overall and a "widespread" problem that occurs on a large percentage of vehicles. A Camry or Accord problem that affects 4K vehicles would appear to be common but that's only 1% of total production in one year so I wouldn't consider that widespread.

    It seems transmission problems are more common now whether they're CVTs, DCTs or conventional automatics.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    m6user said:

    Is the sky falling and nobody has heard about it?  Plenty of regular transmissions have failed over the years as well.  Like I said , I'm not a fan of CVTs but I need a lot more solid evidence to accept the idea that an actual design flaw exists.  Got a feeling the design engineers know a little more than someone who reads some forum posts and has one friend with a tranny problem.

    Not a design flaw. Just the nature of the CVT makes it unreliable for bigger engines and high mileage . I am sure you may be aware that the whole transmission is dependent on the integrity of a single belt.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    akirby said:

    There is a difference between a "common" problem that occurs on a large number of vehicles but a small percentage overall and a "widespread" problem that occurs on a large percentage of vehicles. A Camry or Accord problem that affects 4K vehicles would appear to be common but that's only 1% of total production in one year so I wouldn't consider that widespread.

    It seems transmission problems are more common now whether they're CVTs, DCTs or conventional automatics.

    Unintended acceleration in the Toyota cars were how many percentage of their annual production ? Yet the CEO came here to apologize to the US Congress ?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited October 2015
    And I'm sure you are aware that your engine is dependent on a single chain or belt.  Is that a design flaw?
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    One belt is bad enough, two belts is a disaster waiting to happen . :)
    I rather be happy with only one belt in my car.
    Tell me the cost of changing a timing belt vs changing the whole CVT tranny .
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited October 2015
    2010 to 2014 Pathfinders and Xterra's have been plagued w/ trans / coolant problems.

    Nissan's CVT problems in there Trucks, Suv's and Cars are well documented for years now. Nissan has alot more trans. problems by far than any other Automaker. Remarkably they are still selling a lot of Auto's despite there CVT track record .

    Here's my 2 cents:

    You want to buy a Nissan and then complain about your trans. Well Shame on You. Don't buy a Nissan: :'(

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    carboy21 said:

    One belt is bad enough, two belts is a disaster waiting to happen . :)
    I rather be happy with only one belt in my car.
    Tell me the cost of changing a timing belt vs changing the whole CVT tranny .

    Good point............ Jury is still out how durable these CVT's are 7/ 8 yrs down the road. . We know its a lot cheaper for automakers to have a CVT in there vehicle.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    this is kind of interesting:

    "Audi, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, and Toyota all make their own CVTs. Nissan owns a controlling interest in JATCO, the firm that supplies 49 percent of the world’s gear-free transmissions to Chrysler, GM, Mi­tsu­bishi, and Suzuki." Car and Driver, 2013
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    carboy21 said:

    Automakers shifting to CVT transmissions which were meant only for ATV and Snowmobiles due to their smaller engines and shorter range.

    Guess you never heard of that little race from Wasilla to Fairbanks, via Nome. :p

    We can do without the political commentary btw.

  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    carboy21 said:

    Obama's mandate to increase fuel efficiency to 54mpg by 2025 has resulted in Automakers shifting to CVT transmissions which were meant only for ATV and Snowmobiles due to their smaller engines and shorter range.
    It is a disposable transmission and these CVT cars will have steep drop in resale values , as CVT has a much shorter lifespan and need to be replaced if blown out, costing 4-5 k .
    I would never buy a used car with CVT.

    Nissan, Honda, Subaru have embraced CVT.
    Toyota ( non-hybrids, except Yaris) , Mazda, Hyundai, Kia , BMW, VW, do not have CVT

    Toyota Corolla has CVT now.
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,139
    carboy21 said:

    One belt is bad enough, two belts is a disaster waiting to happen . :)
    I rather be happy with only one belt in my car.
    Tell me the cost of changing a timing belt vs changing the whole CVT tranny .

    Hold up ... compare the cost of rebuilding the engine when the timing belt breaks to the cost of replacing the CVT transmission. That's a like-for-like deal.

    Though, I am curious, what's the maintenance procedure for a CVT? Can the belt be replaced before it fails?

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  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    Michaell said:

    carboy21 said:

    One belt is bad enough, two belts is a disaster waiting to happen . :)
    I rather be happy with only one belt in my car.
    Tell me the cost of changing a timing belt vs changing the whole CVT tranny .

    Hold up ... compare the cost of rebuilding the engine when the timing belt breaks to the cost of replacing the CVT transmission. That's a like-for-like deal.

    Though, I am curious, what's the maintenance procedure for a CVT? Can the belt be replaced before it fails?

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Yes, but if that belt breaks on certain engines like my Tundra it would be a new engine.  Nissan has had lots of problems I admit, but that doesn't mean CVTs are inherently flawed.  I hear the Prius is one of the most troublefree cars on the road and one which owners keep the longest.  Seems their CVT is doing just fine after hundreds of thousands of miles in many cases.  Maybe the problem is more Nissan than CVT concept.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    That is a CVT belt. Don't know if it can be replaced. It is part of a pre assembled unit which costs approx :$2-3000 wholesale,
    CVT tranny is a disposable engineering, cheap to mass produce, but a killer to rebuild.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    m6user said:

    Yes, but if that belt breaks on certain engines like my Tundra it would be a new engine.  Nissan has had lots of problems I admit, but that doesn't mean CVTs are inherently flawed.  I hear the Prius is one of the most troublefree cars on the road and one which owners keep the longest.  Seems their CVT is doing just fine after hundreds of thousands of miles in many cases.  Maybe the problem is more Nissan than CVT concept.

    iCVT( hybrids ) is completely different then normal CVT . Google it.

    hybrid CVT have an electronicaly controlled planetary gears.
    normal CVT is a belt and pulley system.

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,064
    edited October 2015
    I think your mind is made up, so we can move on to other topics.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015

    Is built in Navigation worth the cost or Garmin and cellphone navigation is more reliable and cost efficient ?
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited October 2015
    Save your money. Garmin's are so much better than most NAV's . New cell phone app's are just as good. I have a flip phone so I'm only going from what I heard. I'll take my Garmin over any Nav I have owned Including in my Bmw , MB and Genesis.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    brian125 said:

    Save your money. Garmin's are so much better than most NAV's . New cell phone app's are just as good. I have a flip phone so I'm only going from what I heard. I'll take my Garmin over any Nav I have own Including my BMW and MB and Genesis.

    Very true. I have found my iPhone 6 plus has far superior Navigation via Apple maps then any car Navigation I have seen on my friends cars. I never pay for the Navi option on both my top trim model Honda and Hyundai. To keep battery charged I always connect my iPhone to the DC power outlet throught the trip so I get Navigation without draining the iphone battery
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Check out this Garmin cant beat it for the price.

    http://gps.toptenreviews.com/navigation/garmin/garmin-nuvi-2589lmt-review.html

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    I don't use my NAV often, but I like the large size and the fact that the screen is integrated into the center stack.
    It can also display Route# and speed limits in the right 3rd of the main IP, while the center displays another function.
    It can get out of date, as it is SD card based.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    My Genesis Nav is god awful. Programing in a address is a job/ scrolling thru the knob and controller. Hate it.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    iPhone navigation with Apple maps is the best navigation I have seen having used even a few models of Garmin Nuvi.

    Only downside is data used but I have 20 GB data plan so no problem there.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    explorerx4 said:

    I don't use my NAV often, but I like the large size and the fact that the screen is integrated into the center stack.
    It can also display Route# and speed limits in the right 3rd of the main IP, while the center displays another function.
    It can get out of date, as it is SD card based.

    iPhone displays all that plus the maps are always upto date and it has given me the fastest routes avoiding the local roads which Garmin always seems to prefer. Many times I have to overide Garmin as it tries to take me through interior roads with lots of traffic signals instead of the faster but longer highways.
    Feeding adresses is a breeze as it auto predicts full adrresses as soon as you feed just the road !!
    iPhone 6 processor is much faster then any stand alone navigation can ever have. Its predictive address facility is so instantanous that it will leave you amazed .
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited October 2015
    @carboy21, any iPhone display is much smaller than the built in NAV screens we have. Plus you have to figure out where to mount it to see it. It probably does have voice prompts to help mitigate the small display.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I never look at the iPhone 6 screen when using nav, just listen to the voice directions... in that incredibly sexy Australian accent. :) I've never purchased a vehicle with nav and never will. The only reason I'll get a car with a video screen is for the backup camera, which will soon be standard on just about every new vehicle.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    backy said:

    I never look at the iPhone 6 screen when using nav, just listen to the voice directions... in that incredibly sexy Australian accent. :) I've never purchased a vehicle with nav and never will. The only reason I'll get a car with a video screen is for the backup camera, which will soon be standard on just about every new vehicle.

    Very true. My iPhone lies in the cup holder and I just listen to the turn by turn excellent directions in sexiest accent you can ever hear in your car LOL
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Tech is moving so fast today in the Auto industry a lot of good stuff coming down the pike. Not to get off topic but in the new baseball stadiums going to be built there will be TV screens on the back of each chair so you could watch that game with replays and other games being played.

    @backy may be able to put his TV in a Sexy Australian accent: ;)

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    m6user said:
    Is the sky falling and nobody has heard about it?  Plenty of regular transmissions have failed over the years as well.  Like I said , I'm not a fan of CVTs but I need a lot more solid evidence to accept the idea that an actual design flaw exists.  Got a feeling the design engineers know a little more than someone who reads some forum posts and has one friend with a tranny problem.
    You are entitled to love your CVT . But potential buyers should know what they are getting into. It is not a design flaw . It is the nature of the CVT , they were meant for smaller engines and shorter distances like Snowmobiles , ATVs and Scooters, Toyota had to face the full federal investigations on much fewer number of unintended acceleration cases then the number of failed tranny, but since this involves getting  higher mpg , human lives are expendable ;)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    I used to posh on navis. Now I am a fan. my Sonota has the built in one (came with the other packages I wanted). Have learned to love it. always there, nothing stuck up on the windshield, huge screen (and I like to be able to see it in addition to voice commands).

    a few other benefits are being integrated into the car. Mutes the radio when giving a command. Voice controls by hitting a button on the steering wheel. and probably some other stuff I am forgetting! Oh, and no data. Plus I don't have to have my phone out.

    the particular unit/car seems to make a difference. Our Jetta has Navi, and it is no where near as fancy (but still integrated) with a smaller screen. But one nice thing there is can use the app and find addresses and send them to the car. I even do it while the princess is driving which is cool!

    biggest downside is cost, but I am happy to have it if the car happens to be equipped. And my wife really wants it in her next ride. Though by then, I suspect you can run google maps through the head unit, and have it act just like an OEM integrated navi.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Agree with all the above.  8" vs 5" is a big difference.  Don't worry about hiding it to avoid breaks ins.  I have a Magellan and a Garmin I use if I rent a car.  I have a low data plan on my cell so I am frugal in its usage.  Mostly use it with Wi-Fi.  I think,  but not sure, on our new Mazda the addition of nav is a $600 accessory upgrade which is better than it used to be but still not cheap.  The nav on our RDX is fine and has been fast and accurate so far.
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,064
    I haven't found that Google maps uses that much data, even on a long drive. I'm pretty happy with that so I never get Nav.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I suggest Navi and a map. The latter gives you an overview of where you're going and comes in handy when the navi has hiccups.
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited October 2015
    I test drove a Tesla model S. Its by far the best navigation I seen in any vehicle or owned. First off it has a 17 inch screen with turn by turn directions . Real time changes in traffic while you drive. Tesla's new updated Navi seems to be a real good one. Like Google Maps, the Tesla version offers both satellite and regular map views. Press on the globe icon and you get a satellite view. The Tesla Model S Navigation System comes with the technology package along with the turn by turn directions and voice guidance. The technology package brings in a second navigation component, a version of Navigon by Garmin licensed by Tesla, that can produce directions and maps even when there is no network connectivity.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    suydam said:

    I haven't found that Google maps uses that much data, even on a long drive. I'm pretty happy with that so I never get Nav.

    I watched HSN peddle the phone I ended up buying and they mentioned the data usage was such that the google maps app could be used for days on the amount of data included with the phone's purchase from TracFone, which was 1200 mB IIRC. I have turned mine on away from WiFi using the data and it uses little loading the map so I can see the extent of the traffic backups ahead of me to decide where to take the alternate route.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    Berri reminded me of something. regardless of source (garmin, car or phone) I never blindly trust Navi. They can try to take you some bizarre ways. and occasionally, go off the rails.

    I hate "flying blind", so I always spend time with google maps or mapquest plotting and evaluating routes, and basically figure out in advance where I want to go. partly so I am comfortable with what is going on, and also so I can guess if the Navi is leading me astray! And yes, I am used to doing alternates to what they tell me, and getting yelled at by the Navi as it recalculates!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited November 2015
    stickguy said:

    Berri reminded me of something. regardless of source (garmin, car or phone) I never blindly trust Navi. They can try to take you some bizarre ways. and occasionally, go off the rails.

    I hate "flying blind", so I always spend time with google maps or mapquest plotting and evaluating routes, and basically figure out in advance where I want to go. partly so I am comfortable with what is going on, and also so I can guess if the Navi is leading me astray! And yes, I am used to doing alternates to what they tell me, and getting yelled at by the Navi as it recalculates!

    Very much agree with you. If I plan a trip then I preview it on my computer via google or mapquest so I can ignore my car based iphone or garmin if it tries to lead me via longer route and city roads. But sometimes you have to change destinations while still in the car and then you can be stuck with where the garmin takes you.
    iPhone and Apple maps have been far more accurate for me then stand alone Garmin or integrated car based Navi.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    About a year ago I started using Waze and IMHO, it's the best phone based navigation system I have used. I takes traffic into account and adjusts the route accordingly.

    Just like all navs, it does try to minimize the travel time and it will route you through neighborhoods if it will knock seconds off your travel time. I've learned to ignore it in an area that I am familiar with. I have not idea how much data it uses and I really don't care as I have unlimited data.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited November 2015
    Nothing beats cell phone based navigation. Always instantaniosly fast and up to the minute updated maps with traffic and routing. Car integrated navigation is a dinosaur unless they find out a way to frequently update their maps and routing via internet connection . Cellphone processors are quad core or octa core much much blazing faster processors then those in any car integrated Navi or Garmin. Just spend on a $10 dash mount and you are good to go. Data consumed is minimal and most of us have more then 2 GB data plans. Unless Car integrated Navi come as a standard feature like the back-up camera , I would not pay extra $$ to get that option .
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    There are pros and cons to both. Stop making it sound like your way is the only way.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited November 2015
    I actually use both. Why? So that I don't have to interrupt my podcasts, or switch screens while driving. Akirby is exactly right. Each one has its pros and cons. The Garmin has more features and larger screen but I have to say it has led me astray a little more frequently than Google Maps. So, like others here, I double-check what Garmin is telling me. If I like the Maps route better, or if I'm in an inner city environment, I use that.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Waze - is that the one that is controversial because it reveals the location of police?
  • zigster38zigster38 Member Posts: 117
    I use Scout on my iPhone for navigation and I quite like it  - if I switch to a car with CarPlay I'll have to use Apple maps I think. Not too keen on that. Plus CarPlay doesn't have Pandora either. Hate to pay the extra $$$$ for Nav but it might be more convenient. 
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    berri said:

    Waze - is that the one that is controversial because it reveals the location of police?

    Yes. reported by users.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,330
    I do like google maps. What I hope for in my next car is Carplay that will fully integrate google maps (I think it only does apple maps now? and I don't use that). If that will run right through the headunit just like the built in navi does, perfect.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,487
    I'm a fan of WAZE as well.  Works fantastic.  My wife's Pilot has the built in factory Nav.  That works good too.  We need to update the DVD though. I'm just too lazy/cheap to do so.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,064
    Apple maps has improved hugely and is now sometimes better than Google maps.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    stickguy said:

    berri said:

    Waze - is that the one that is controversial because it reveals the location of police?

    Yes. reported by users.
    The \Escort radar systems also share information which can be received via an app on the cell phone that IDs police activity.

    https://www.escortradar.com/escort-live-app/

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    Googlemaps.com also attributes incident markers and accident markers on their
    Traffic feature to Waze app. There must be a sharing between them now.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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