Engine Oil--A slippery subject

tonewheel

sorry about that double posting....

ruking1

#207
The additives used in say Mobil regular oil and Mobil One synthetic oil are almost identical. The difference is that the one base is synthetic and the other is regular. Synthetic has less internal breakdown than regular hence greater stability, and contributes less contamination as a function of base breakdown. No magic bullet here..just a better lubricant. It is your choice.

tonewheel

I suppose the biggest benefit I've noticed is when the temperature is below zero. My car starts like it was 80 degrees outside (while everyone else cranks away). That alone should be enough of a reason to use synthetic oil.

ruking1

#212
As I get more miles, (approaching 2m non-accident causing,as a driver)
I like the simple things in life, like a vehicle starting the first time... every time..the quicker the better. No time is the right time in Minus 75 degrees windchill for a vehicle not to start.

spokane

Thanks for the Mobil quote, Tonewheel. It seems that several of us have strongly doubted the tales of need for break-in oil and therefore really wanted more information regarding the use of synthetic oil in new engines.

Does anyone have any indication that the cylinder surface-finishing technology at Corvette and Porsche differs significantly from that of other manufacturers?

arjay1

Ruking1, are you saying that you change your oil every 1,000 to 2,500 miles and then have the dealer do it at increments of 5,000? If so, isn't that a bit excessive! I realize that you can't change the oil too often but when does the law of diminishing returns take over?

clary

To detpassat:
Check out the chat rooms at vwvortex.com. Somewhere in there is a lengthy debate about break in oils foor passats. Everyone who disregarded the owners manual and changed oil sooner than the book now suffer from higher than normal oil consumption. VW's break in oil is meant to ensure proper break in. Check for yourself again at vwvortex.com, discussions, passats.

quadrunner500

spokane,
The Corvette LS1 is an aluminum block, with cast iron cylinder liner inserts, that are honed. They are completely conventional. I suspect the Porsche is the same.

tonewheel

I have to disagree with clary. My daughter drives a '98 Passat, and the manual referred to the break in oil. I got rid of that oil the same week we picked up the car. Her car runs flawlessly with oil changes at every 3,000 miles...and no consumption whatsoever. There are presently 28,000 miles on the car, mostly highway driven. If other Passat owners are having problems with excessive oil consumption, they'd be hard pressed to convince me that it was due to replace the "break in" oil.

ruking1

#215

No, not at all. The thread that you locked on to was a question about new car oil changes. After the new car break in cycle,if in fact the manufacturer recommends 5k, you may wish to consider the range between what is considered normal and severe use. On the one hand, changing oil at 3k at one end and say 15k at the other for synthetic would be considered by some to be the extremes; the other hand would say that somewhere in the middle is the answer. Since I use synthetic, I tend to go longer than lesser.

kemartin

Anyone care to comment on the advantages of Amsoil over Mobil 1 or vice versa ? I find Mobil 1 to be more than 20% cheeper, and available in local stores. Sure would like to know if it is worth it to use Amsoil (or any other brand).

clary

Another Amsoil question:

I am toying with the idea of installing Amsoil's bypass oil filter and want to know of other people's experiences with such a device.

hgiles

I get my oil changed at the dealer (Honda). The problem with asking for synthetic oil is that they could just as easily put regular in and you'll never know it. They could even do it by mistake. Anyone know if this happens?

clary

Yes, it does. A friend had this happen to her Civic several years ago. However, after every change she was in the habit of asking to be certain that they had put the correct oil in. She discovered their error and had them sheepishly drain and refill.

jeffrey

First, see post 203. I'm not familiar with the Amsoil, but I think my summary still applies.

bob47

some time ago the new york city taxi cabs were subject of a test using several oil additives, different oil brands etc. the result after a 60000 mile tear down was no measurable difference in the use of any oil or additive.

suzieq3

This is a totally stupid question, but I am going to ask it anyway. For example, if my car requires 10w 30w, and I want to use synthetic, do I still use 10w 30w in synthetic oil?

ruking1

#226
No. Yes. But you could probably get good service from a 5-30W. I would read the owners manual to see if that range is recommended. For mine, a 5-30W or 0-30W is in the range. I use 5-30w.

markbuck

I'd follow your owners manual on oil viscosity recommendation regardless of oil type.

guitarzan

Suzie, synthetic is certified in the same way that regular oil is, so you know. The one great benefit of synthetic is that even at the same viscosity, synthetic flows much easier at very cold temperatures, thus protecting your engine better at startup.

I second the motion to use the manual recommended viscosity.

nutype

I was wondering if its okay to mix different viscosity oils. Because i have couple 15w-50 and would like to mix it with 10w-30 mobil 1.

clintonjohn

nutype, i've heard that it's ok to mix different brands of same viscosity, but not different viscosities. Don't know why, but that's what i've read in those q&a articles in auto sections of the newspaper.
My question to all: did not even know there was a 0w30 oil. sounds very good, esp in these chicago winters. along the lines of the previous questions, if my manual states 5w30 or 10w30, would i be ok using 0w30? the car has 160k miles, so i'm not worried about warranty, but also with that many miles, would 0w30 be too thin and get blow by?(i think thats the term i want to use)

ghtrap

How about oil filters?

I currently use WIX, but wonder if it's worth the extra expense.

If I change my oil without fail every 3000 mi., won't a less expensive filter like Fram be adequate instead of paying twice as much for a WIX?

spokane

Ghtrap, WIX is one of several good oil filters. The only comparison testing I have seen (~3 years ago) showed a slight preference for FRAM extra-guard over the other major brands. (WIX or others could have revised their filter media since that test.) In my area, the common FRAM sizes sell for $2.50 to $3.00 at discount stores. WIX is usually 20% to 40% higher; I believe this is due to that fact that they are not offered here by the high-volume discounters. FRAM is also introducing another line of filters (~$5) that has a higher first-pass particulate removal rate. I'm certain it's a very good filter but justification for it's higher price would surely fall into the realm of "insurance cost" rather than some simple engine-life measurement.

I endorse your 3000-mi change intervals. I believe adherence to this relatively short interval is more significant to the life of the engine than is the choice of oil filter brand.

guitarzan

One important criteria: Use a filter with metal backing support! I switched from FRAM to Bosch after hearing many people talk about filters blowing out due to poor structural integrity.

div2

I tend to use the OEM filter. I figure the manufacturer knows what is best for its own products. That said, I doubt there is a significant difference between reputable brands.

shane55

Ok, ok, ok, ...
I'm new to this forum and I have a question that has probably been answered a thousand times... so sorry for repost.

I'm at 7500 mi..
Have read a few things about synthetic oils having a lot going for them.
Any comparisons been done between the various brands of synthetic oil?
Any opinions on those to avoid? How does Castrol Syntec (available at Costco) compare to Mobile 1, or regular oil?
Any pros or cons with the 2.5 L Subaru engine?
Any things to watch out for other than dealers putting in regular oil instead?

thanks!!

shane

jeffrey

I'm all for them (or at least 'it', that being Mobil1). Synthoil is better at everything than dead-dinosaur (DD) oil. Use it.

RED LINE SYNTHETICS......wow is their enginoil expensive--rr c. $12/qt.! Makes M1 at $4 look inexpensive. I'm about ready to change all my fluids to RL's synthoils. Have e-mailed them to ask if their various synthoils meet Chrysler's specs re warranty. We'll see what they say.

edwardh2

Consumer reports had a good NYC taxi motor oil test last year.
They said all brands of oil are about the same, and they recommended changing at 7500 miles, or whatever the manufacturer says. With the coming car computers that will tell you when to change oil, like on Mercedes, Jiffy Lube will be in trouble. The quick lube stores have no technical basis for the 3ooo mile change - it works but so does 2000 and 500 mile change intervals.

guitarzan

Shane55, a close friend uses Castrol Syntec. He switched from Mobil1, saying the latter, "got dark too quickly." I have no verification of this. The car is a Mitsubishi turbo, which I might expect to get brown quickly.

markbuck

I thought that you wanted your oil to pick up all that contamination.
Bet you could put rubbing alcohol in instead of motor oil and it would stay clear forever.....

My two cents, synthetic probably better than non; more frequent changes better than waiting longer.

Suspect I couldn't prove the above statement without running a well designed experiment with about one thousand engines.

Probably the best thing you can do for engine life is gently warm up your engine before whomping on it, and take a long trip (>25 miles) once a week.

ruking1

Buy Syn oil on price would be the best advice. Once again, dyno and syn oil meet the current api and etc specs. The differences between syn oils is just further icing on the cake. But the basic 5 things you get synthetic oil for are already inherent in the synthetic base. If your vehicle specs allow try to stay as close to 5-30w as possible.

rdeschene

RE: Consumer Reports NYC cab experiment.

This was an interesting experiment they did, however, it doesn't address the actual driving situation for a great many North Americans in private vehicles.

(1) many cabbies leave their cabs running continuously - so the oil is always at operating temperature. It would be hard to see any reduction in engine wear or ease of cold starting in this situation.

(2) New York City is in a temperate climate, so really cold weather improvements would be minimal. The same could be said for really (e.g. New Mexico) hot weather improvements.

mljackson

I agree totally with RDeschene's comments on Consumer Reports testing.
Additionally, the test was too short. They need to go for 150,000 miles not just 60K.

rcn

I've got 19,000 miles on my Toyota truck and I'm thinking of switching to synthetic at the 20,000 mile oil change. I asked the service guys about it and one service writer said,"if you're going to go with synthetic, you need to do it real early". He then proceeded to tell me a horror story of someone who switched from regular oil to synthetic and how the car began smoking and everything was "gummed up" inside. The service tech standing nearby said he ran whatever was on sale in his '83. Another service writer said he felt that 20,000 was a good time to switch since the truck would be broken in. Three people three opinions.

What do you folks think?

Also, I've been running 10w30. If I do go with synthetic, should I go with 10w or 5w30?

All opinions are appreciated.

guitarzan

1) Use the grade recommended by the manufacturer, no matter which type of oil you use.

2) It is fine for you to switch.

3) Changing to synthetic on a filthy, gummed up engine CAN have severe consequences, because the synthetic LOOSENS crud up, and that crud can then block important passages.

ruking1

#245
Ditto on #246.

nutype

i'm using Castrol syntec 5W-50 on my 99 civic, i was wondering if that was okay. Manual recommends 5w-30 but i think this protects better, is that right?

ruking1

#248
Well the concept behind using the 5-30w syn is that it takes less additives to do, as opposed to a 5-50w which has a wider viscosity range,hence takes more additives. Unless you are doing special duty that is not being stated,, it is better to go to 5-30w as you indicate is in the recommended range for your 99Honda Civic.

spokane

Nutype, I heartily agree with Ruking1; for normal service the extra viscosity extenders and the too-high hot viscosity are to your disadvantage. 5W-30 meets the manufacturer's specs, also important for warranty purposes. I'd change right away. Castrol Syntec in the 5W-30 should be fine.

rdeschene

rcn. I agree with guitarzan's opinion, but would just add that unless you've far exceeded the recommended oil change intervals, or have been driving in particularly dusty conditions, you shouldn't have that much buildup in an engine with 19,000 on it.

I switched to synthetic at 100,000 miles with no problems. And this was on a used vehicle with an unknown service history.

rcn

Thanks for the advice everyone. Now one more question, just for fun. Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec?

bluemist

I'm curious because there are 3 synthetics I can use:

Castrol Syntec (approx $4/quart)
Mobil 1 (approx $4/quart)
Royal Purple (Synerlec technology) (approx $5/quart)

I used both the Castrol and Mobil 1 and didn't see any difference between the 2, but I didn't run any experiments to contrast them.

ruking1

#253
Buy on price! Castrol/Mobil already meet high standards. It would be splitting hairs. The other one you mentioned I havent any knowledge of.

kewldude

Does anyone use the partially synthetic oil's that are available? I'm thinking that it may be a good choice at the first oil change. By the way, the API web site says of the SJ grade oil: Status: Current. Introduced in the API Service Symbol in 1996. For all automotive engines presently in use. And for SH grade: Status: Obsolete. For model year 1996 and older engines. Valid when preceded by certain C categories.

markbuck

Running Wal-mart 10W-30 synthetic blend (private labeled by QS). $1.25 per quart in big containers. $1.57 by the quart. Works great so far.

ruking1

#256
To me a blend gives the worst of the conventional oil and cuts down the benefits of the synthetic oil.
In most normal blends, the ratio is 1 to 3 and below. (synthetic/conventional)
The cost is the main driver here in that most synthetics sell for (on the market) 2.98 to 5.50 a quart.
Actually, you could even do the blending.

bluemist

The Castrol I can get is 5W50 and Mobil 1 for 5W30 or 10W30. I assume the Mobil 1 is better here because it doesn't have many viscosity "enhancers" which hinder oil performance?

The other one has info at http://www.synerlec.com --- although I don't know how much of what they claim is pure hype and how much is for real.

ruking1

#258
In this case, yes. The vehicle manual will give the range of recommended weight range. I am hearing you say the manual recommends 5w-10W-30W. If given a choice between these, I would do the 0-30W or the 5w-30W Mobil One.

bluemist

Has anyone here used the Mobil 1 oil filter, and if so, did they notice any benefits that justify the higher price?

Or should I just stick with Mobil 1 synthetic oil and a no-name brand filter?